On January 07 2025 00:08 Rainalcar wrote:
I would welcome more diversity. Too many maps are very standard. We haven't seen a real island map in ages, etc.

Unfortunately that's not happening ever again. I mean, two tilesets are basically banned because players have such a huge say on how new maps are being made and how they look. I doubt we will ever see something like 76 ever again, let alone Inner Coven/Sparkle level of craziness. Maybe i'm wrong (and I hope I am) but I don't think so.

FlaShFTW

United States10472 Posts

January 06 2025 15:37 GMT

#64

I think the changes were made to make the upper part of the map a little bit more important while reducing the importance of the bottom side. The obvious example is making 6/9 bases from gas to mineral only and moving the gas to the center. This is to avoid someone from just outright giving up their assimilator natural and playing to the bottom side of the map.

Kraekkling

713 Posts

January 06 2025 15:39 GMT

#65

On January 06 2025 19:34 Peeano wrote:

Most of the changes are aimed to fix some of the flaws which became apparent during testing. I like the new version.

1. Bottom-left corner expansions moved to low ground:
Long games and split-map scenarios will often revolve around controlling these expansions. High-ground expansions accessible via a single ramp are very easy to defend, so moving these to low ground should make them harder to hold and promote more dynamic gameplay.

2. Added gas at the center expansions:
When I first saw the old version of the map, I immediately felt that the center area with the (old) mineral-only expansions wasn’t well incorporated into the rest of the map. That entire area was only relevant for contesting the (old) mineral-only expansions. Not only did those expansions lack gas, but they were also further away than three(!) other gas expansions. Considering the order in which expansions on this map are taken, the result was that the center part of the map remained unused for the first ~15-20 minutes, which isn’t ideal.

By adding gas to these expansions, the relevance of this part of the map increases significantly.

3. Re-shaped egg-block natural expansion:
This change is likely due to pathing and positional balance issues. The new version should allow for smoother unit movement.

4. Removed the bridge at the egg-block natural expansion:
Scenarios where this path becomes your main entrance to the map are fairly common. If you’ve ever tried moving a group of Goliaths or Dragoons across a single bridge without wanting to kill yourself, I applaud your patience.

5. Removed gas from the high-ground expansion next to the egg-blocked natural:
In the old version, you could secure four gas expansions for almost no effort, i.e. defending a single choke per expansion or simply setting your rally points further forward. That was simply too much gas for too little effort, so it had to go.

6. Top-right path made walkable, with ramps added near the assimilator natural expansions:
I’m not sure what to make of this change. The likely intent was to make that part of the map feel less unused. I don’t think it will see much more use as a result. Perhaps some proxy buildings on the top right? Or Terrans might drop tanks on the high ground near the assimilator expansion?

7. Added a small ramped high ground at the center that leads nowhere:
I actually like this addition. It seems to align with the effort to make the center part of the map (now with gas expansions) more relevant. Two potential uses come to mind: First, units on the high ground can provide vision over parts of the map, functioning somewhat like an inaccessible watchtower. Second, it could be a spot to place tanks, though this might be only relevant for TvT. Overall it seems like a very minor change with no downsides.

cheesehuehue

Vatican City State90 Posts

January 06 2025 17:19 GMT

#66

On January 07 2025 00:39 Kraekkling wrote:
7. Added a small ramped high ground at the center that leads nowhere:
I actually like this addition. It seems to align with the effort to make the center part of the map (now with gas expansions) more relevant. Two potential uses come to mind: First, units on the high ground can provide vision over parts of the map, functioning somewhat like an inaccessible watchtower. Second, it could be a spot to place tanks, though this might be only relevant for TvT. Overall it seems like a very minor change with no downsides.

That ramp also prevents an overlord from hiding from marines (if someone ever wanted to place an ov there), so it may have a downside for Zerg.

Also, most of the changes in mineral and gas positions make Terran less harassable by mutalisks. In summary, the new version is much more favorable for Terran in TvZ than the old version.

Kraekkling

713 Posts

January 06 2025 17:59 GMT

#67

On January 07 2025 02:19 cheesehuehue wrote:
Also, most of the changes in mineral and gas positions make Terran less harassable by mutalisks. In summary, the new version is much more favorable for Terran in TvZ than the old version.

I actually think the new layout at the assimilator natural expansion is slightly better for mutalisks in ZvT since now there are some high ground cliffs, so you can juggle turret aggro with vision. Other than that, there don't seem to be any relevant changes in that regard?

M3t4PhYzX

Poland4267 Posts

January 06 2025 19:11 GMT

#68

Good changes or not It's still by far the most interesting of the new SSL maps anyways.

zelevin

United States317 Posts

January 06 2025 20:28 GMT

#69

bros i've never donated to a streamer, but I may have to send artosis a donation tonight to let him know that ECLIPSE is coming back.

GTR

51613 Posts

January 12 2025 06:32 GMT

#70

metropolis updated

new ramps, adjusted chokes at natural expansions, extra space behind natural, made third bases larger

Ideas

United States8171 Posts

January 15 2025 15:22 GMT

#71

I love eclipse, just not sure if meta has changed enough to warrant it's return so soon.

They should have at least remade it with twilight tile and called it lunar eclipse smh

FlaShFTW

United States10472 Posts

January 15 2025 15:39 GMT

#72

Wonder if we'll see the mineral chokes at the main/nat ramps used more. I feel like the eggs are too cumbersome for terran bio and zerglings to remove.

[sc1f]eonzerg

Belgium6999 Posts

January 15 2025 16:31 GMT

#73

They changed the eggs from Death Valley ramp to minerals.

I think the most notable change from this is that now workers cant escape from the main using that ramp? And just easier in general to clean the ramp.and open access. It also prevents zerg from doing lurker rushes and using that ramp.

Ideas

United States8171 Posts

January 15 2025 17:07 GMT

#74

It's cool to see them iterating on the map so much. Hopefully the final version is relatively well-balanced. I really love the concept.

FlaShFTW

United States10472 Posts

January 15 2025 19:19 GMT

#75

I think the idea is to promote more play to the top side, since as it stands right now, the egg natural was being used too often. Workers can still glitch through like on Monty Hall I believe, but itll be harder to run them away since you need some time to glitch them through. Not sure how much it changes things.

GTR

51613 Posts

January 15 2025 22:00 GMT

#76

it's uploaded as a separate version/map on the blog so it's not a definite change and most likely still being discussed internally

Kraekkling

713 Posts

January 16 2025 14:26 GMT

#77

The change from the egg ramp to the mineral block ramp is quite big IMO due to impact on specific build orders. Personally, I found the egg ramp quite interesting and am unsure if it really needed a change.

The bridges at the center were also removed, and the central expansions were moved closer to the main bases. This makes those expansions more viable earlier in the game and opens up the center part of the map. I like this change.

It’ll be interesting to see how this iteration plays out.

[sc1f]eonzerg

Belgium6999 Posts

January 16 2025 22:02 GMT

#78

Hmm didnt see progamers using Death Valley in proleague for 2 days now. Are they waiting for a final rework ?

Btw guys dont you think this map would be more interesting if they did something similar to Arkanoid to open access to both sides ?

I was thinking that could be an option and a different one could be like Blue Storm Natural where only 1 kind of size unit could go in.

Concept

FlaShFTW

United States10472 Posts

January 16 2025 22:50 GMT

#79

1 unit size would favor zerg too much imo with ling runbys and be almost worthless for terran, but the idea of adding in destructible buildings would be cool and interesting!

Kraekkling

713 Posts

January 17 2025 00:08 GMT

#80

It would be a different map. IMO neutral buildings blocking paths is the most overused non-standard feature in the history of bw maps. We've had plenty (enough) of those maps.

The current concept of Death Valley is much more unique.