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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
On February 05 2025 04:25 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Yeah this is exactly why I was wondering if it was still in. Not even seeing it being played in sponsor games. That really stinks. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On February 05 2025 04:25 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: Yeah this is exactly why I was wondering if it was still in. Not even seeing it being played in sponsor games. Light was playing it vs Snow in a china sponsored game two days ago or something, he was cursing the map and was asking if he had to play lol then the comments were like "da ge (chinese sponsors) wants to see the map" he got proxy 2 gate and gged under 5 mins iirc, didn't even bother to try and drag the game out i think there's a consensus everyone hates that map | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10471 Posts
Listen, I get the pros just want to prep and practice on standard maps, but also, we had these weird quirky maps all the time in kespa days, especially with proleague. Fuck it, let the teams in k league/proleague pick a player to send out specifically to snipe on that map, let games be interesting. | ||
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SCRVN
227 Posts
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konadora
Singapore66363 Posts
On February 07 2025 00:41 FlaShFTW wrote: Do they hate the map because the map is bad, or do they hate it simply because it's different? Listen, I get the pros just want to prep and practice on standard maps, but also, we had these weird quirky maps all the time in kespa days, especially with proleague. Fuck it, let the teams in k league/proleague pick a player to send out specifically to snipe on that map, let games be interesting. feel its a bit of both, i hate that they just flat out hate these creative maps and refuse to play them, i believe that without maps, which is the only source of balancing in BW, BW won't evolve in terms of meta and creativity... | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
On February 07 2025 00:41 FlaShFTW wrote: Do they hate the map because the map is bad, or do they hate it simply because it's different? Listen, I get the pros just want to prep and practice on standard maps, but also, we had these weird quirky maps all the time in kespa days, especially with proleague. Fuck it, let the teams in k league/proleague pick a player to send out specifically to snipe on that map, let games be interesting. Players have way too much say in what maps are getting made, picked and played atm but that's how it is when there's no central authority which forces them to play. I agree with you, it really is a major bummer. Practicing for 1 quirky map out of 5 or 7 and entertaining viewers doesn't seem like much to ask but I guess it is these days. It's only gotten worse over the years, so I don't see it changing any time soon as well. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
If you want to force players to play on maps we could move back to the bo5 4 map structure. Early ASL forced a lot of crazy maps on players, and by time it was bracket play BO5 with 4 maps was cool. Maybe we should try to have 6 maps and bo7, so these maps are played more than 6 times, like monty hall was. Anyway watch nation wars. ZZZero is forcing players to play it. So far it's a 2 PvPs and 1 PvZ | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1263 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4267 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1263 Posts
On February 07 2025 22:54 M3t4PhYzX wrote: It's not even about Death Valley in particular but about total unwillingness to play even mildly semi-standard maps overall. Because at their level maps are so important for balance. breaking the balance feels bad to play. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
On February 07 2025 22:54 M3t4PhYzX wrote: It's not even about Death Valley in particular but about total unwillingness to play even mildly semi-standard maps overall. That's not true though, they've played on Nemesis, La Campanella, Blitz Y, Monty Hall, Kick Back, Minstrel, and probably more. They also have played on ASL candidate maps like Citadel. There's two reasons why it wouldn't be played in my opinion: That it has undergone multiple drastic patches, and it might have serious balance issues such as a map like 76 | ||
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1263 Posts
On February 08 2025 01:10 Mutaller wrote: That's not true though, they've played on Nemesis, La Campanella, Blitz Y, Monty Hall, Kick Back, Minstrel, and probably more. They also have played on ASL candidate maps like Citadel. There's two reasons why it wouldn't be played in my opinion: That it has undergone multiple drastic patches, and it might have serious balance issues such as a map like 76 i think they are tired of such maps. I think Monty was the final straw. Minstrel is acceptable. | ||
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Mutaller
United States1051 Posts
On February 08 2025 01:46 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote: i think they are tired of such maps. I think Monty was the final straw. Minstrel is acceptable. Is them being tired of the maps? Or is it daily pro league resembles SSL/ASL, but has a 6 map pool. They cut a map from the SSL pool, to create their pool. It just happens that this upcoming season is very standard, and they cut the only non-standard map. Again, Death Valley was incomplete when these maps were introduced | ||
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FlaShFTW
United States10471 Posts
On February 07 2025 21:27 BisuDagger wrote: I don't see a Protoss winning PvZ on deathvalley (without cheese) if the map doesn't get veto-ed. Feels like one of the rare maps where Sair/Reaver might work on actually, and in general gives Protoss a cleaner 3rd to take compared to other maps where they need to step outside to try to secure a fast third. In general, I'm very disappointed that pros don't want to play/practice the more quirky maps. I understand the map has undergone a ton of changes, but now with the 1.0 version finally being confirmed, I feel like now would be a good time to introduce it again and play it. It honestly isn't THAT unique of a map, compared to say Monty Hall or 76 which are way more unique than this one. Plus, while they're playing this for money, they're also playing for viewer entertainment, and what could be more entertaining than seeing some super quirky and cool games on non-standard maps? | ||
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TT1
Canada10045 Posts
https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/626201-possible-new-maps-for-ssl-1?page=4#75 | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19366 Posts
On February 08 2025 05:12 FlaShFTW wrote: Feels like one of the rare maps where Sair/Reaver might work on actually, and in general gives Protoss a cleaner 3rd to take compared to other maps where they need to step outside to try to secure a fast third. In general, I'm very disappointed that pros don't want to play/practice the more quirky maps. I understand the map has undergone a ton of changes, but now with the 1.0 version finally being confirmed, I feel like now would be a good time to introduce it again and play it. It honestly isn't THAT unique of a map, compared to say Monty Hall or 76 which are way more unique than this one. Plus, while they're playing this for money, they're also playing for viewer entertainment, and what could be more entertaining than seeing some super quirky and cool games on non-standard maps? It’s the natural that is unusable though. Bisu will get ling runby every game. | ||
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TMNT
3228 Posts
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RJBTVYOUTUBE
Netherlands1263 Posts
On February 08 2025 10:33 TMNT wrote: Weird maps demand more effort in attention and mechanics. Most top players are now in their mid-30s. I think it's just time they can't try hard anymore. Maybe in 5 years they'll all hang up their keyboards. Them being older and having more obligations is exactly why quirky maps become a bigger problem. On top of having to maintain and improve their skills, they also have to make money playing proleagues, sponsors, and events. With a quirky map they have to dedicate more of their time to develop a meta unique to just that one map that also has a high variance in outcome precisely because it is so quirky and odd. But some dont have that time or dont want to allocate more time for it. most of them are now married and have kids. While they have enough time to maintain their skill, they dont have enough time to learn quirky maps. Skills and builds developed on standard maps transfer over to the next map pool. builds for quirky maps dont. | ||
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Ideas
United States8171 Posts
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