New SSL2 Candidate maps~

On December 24 2024 11:09 SCRVN wrote:
How about these maps are from kjw1090zz:

(4) 나락 (Naraka)



(4)Everlasting



(3)진달래



Sorry, I don't like all the candidate maps, especially (4)Radeon 1.0, (4)Deja Vu SE 1.91, (3)Dominator_SE_1.9

On December 24 2024 11:47 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Im buggin or im seeing one swastika on Pole Star ? Blizzard actually never allowed Sniper Ridge on Remastered for that reason.

On December 24 2024 11:09 SCRVN wrote:
How about these maps are from kjw1090zz:

(4) 나락 (Naraka)



(4)Everlasting



(3)진달래



Sorry, I don't like all the candidate maps, especially (4)Radeon 1.0, (4)Deja Vu SE 1.91, (3)Dominator_SE_1.9

On December 24 2024 19:01 BLinD-RawR wrote:
I'm on my phone so finding it hard to link but theres one more map called anonymous which has accessible highground all through the outside rim of the map.

https://910map.tistory.com/207

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 24 2024 20:19 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

This map not making it tho lol.

On December 24 2024 11:39 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
I don't think any of these 3 maps would be fit for competition. Can see some huge balance issues with these that are bigger than the ones Monty and Troy had.

On December 25 2024 10:13 SCRVN wrote:

Can you show to me some issues balance of them?

In your words, there is an answer why kjw1090zz's maps should be picked. SSL needs some maps like Monty and Troy, and audiences need too.

SSL was made for entertainment, making money. It's not real for competition.

Do you know a nice map, will look like? 99% of people like it or dislike it, it's a nice map.

btw, Metropolis is one of the most imbalance map I've seen. Terran can't lose in this, except to they afk

On December 27 2024 07:47 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis remind me a lot this map called Beltway

Is it a remake ?

On December 27 2024 07:47 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:
Metropolis remind me a lot this map called Beltway

Is it a remake ?

On December 27 2024 02:07 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Naraka is a 20 base map with a terrible layout and too many gimmicks.

Everlasting has a terrible spawn layout and would just be crazy bad if two players spawned next to each other. same reason lost temple is terrible.

Last map has terrible spawn locations and bad base sizes. The maps are just terrible for competition at high level.

I am 100% against gimmick maps. sometimes they produce good games. most of the time the matches aren't that good because the limits it imposes on players start to unfairly favor a race and makes it too imbalanced. Troy for example had largely bad games. it had a 65% toss vs zerg winrate. Monty had a 67% zerg vs toss winrate.. thats just mega imbalanced and bad.

On December 28 2024 22:48 29 fps wrote:
out of curiosity, what do map makers gain from making these maps?

do they get royalties, or is it just for the love of the game and the fame of being a good mapmaker?

On December 28 2024 09:09 SCRVN wrote:

A 20 base map is a good map, atleast for me. On Naraka, you need to think about kind of your units to fit Dark Swarm, D-Web, ground and movement on this map needs skillfull, smart, and vision. These good things really need for real contest.

(4)Everlasting is good like Python, Horizon Lunar Colony. Lost temple was a bad map because of dropping at nature base, not two players spawned next to each other. The places lead to mind game, you can be easy to drop or rush muta but your opponent prepares to defend easy too.

(3)진달래 is good like Pathfinder, Alchemist. The main base isn't small like you think, do you know Lemon map? (3)진달래 is very balance, it's far enough to fast expand safely, it's 3 island bases for the weakest race (P) get a little advantage. While island base maps are so terrible for Zerg, Terran, so semi-island or 2 players have to play on 5 bases and the other bases on outside is nice idea.

Death Valley = Third World favor Protoss
Anonymous = Holy World favor Zerg
Metropolis = Andromeda favor Terrran

On December 29 2024 06:19 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
All the things you listed make them bad maps in my opinion. Python is bad. Horizon Lunar Colony somewhat different and much better than everlasting but also not a great map. Pathfinder and alchemist are bad maps too.

On December 28 2024 22:48 29 fps wrote:
out of curiosity, what do map makers gain from making these maps?

do they get royalties, or is it just for the love of the game and the fame of being a good mapmaker?

On December 31 2024 11:50 BLinD-RawR wrote:
In an ideal scenario, they should be rotating one or two new maps, 3 at the most. but I would guess map makers get paid more for new maps.

On January 01 2025 01:20 FlaShFTW wrote:
Trying to theorycraft on Death Valley right now on whether you simply play normally then expand later to the bottom side, or if there's some kind of mind games by expanding to the egg natural quickly.

It's almost impossible to attack the egg natural unless you commit your production to the egg natural. But that makes you extremely vulnerable to attacks at your assimilator. And it's all a guessing game too, almost a little like Monty Hall.

Example 1: Both players play normal, leads to a normal game.
Example 2: Both players take egg natural with production in mains, probably just leads to a normalish game.
Example 3: One player plays normal, one player takes egg natural with production in main. Egg natural player has slight advantage in that they only have to defend their assimilator/ramp while the opponent has to defend the natural choke and can't easily harass opponent's egg natural. So likely egg natural player has some advantage.
Example 4: One player plays normal, one player takes egg natural but commits production to the egg natural. In this case, the normal player would probably have advantage and can sieze initiative with harassing the assimilator and getting up the ramp while egg natural player units must quickly break the eggs to get back on defense. Difficult especially for Terran and Zerg players who don't have high damage units to break though egg armor.
Example 5: One player takes normal natural BUT commits to egg natural production while other player takes egg natural and main production. In this case, it would turn into a very messy game, as the production is not on the same side of the map and both players may end up losing their naturals.

It feels like Terran may have some advantages on this map by being able to lift their buildings. If they guessed wrong, they can always lift their early rax/factory back to the main for example, or let's say they expand to egg natural but build production in main. They can quickly try to build bunker at egg natural while lifting their rax down to the low ground to produce a few marines to get set defensively. Of course, depending on the matchup like TvZ, might be too difficult to kill the eggs fast enough when mutas arrive, so that might not be an option in TvZ (but maybe mech could be good on this map to 1) kill eggs faster, and 2) take advantage of relatively safe 3rd gas).

I think for Protoss, the egg natural basically solves the issue with 3 hatch hydra play, since Zerg will want to take the egg natural as one of their bases rather than the multi at 1. This means Zerg can't reliably rush a Protoss since they'll have at minimum 1 hatchery not joining the attack (though Zerg could maybe play a very interesting style where they take egg natural as 2nd base, then take 6/9 as 3rd base and rush the bottom side of the map). I think 12 nex to the egg natural will also be very strong and maybe a rush into fast carriers, since how does Terran reliably punish a 12 nex? They could maybe BBS... but getting up the ramp into the main would be difficult, so maybe PvT will just be 12 nex vs 14 cc?

Zerg muta play will be very strong on this map as they can dance between the three bases especially with how the egg natural minerals are placed. Rushes seem pretty weak though as mentioned before, taking the egg natural means being cut off in your production and early game zerg will have struggles opening the eggs. I think this map will see quite a few games actually reach hive ZvZ, as taking the egg natural can be pretty safe (although maybe not to ling-allins since your hatches will be disconnected by ground). 12 hatch to the egg natural vs 9 pool would auto lose as the 9 pooling player would be able to get lings inside the main and you don't have the advantage of the extra larva from the 12 hatch to defend yourself (maybe they just immediately drop a sunken in their main and can freely drone at the egg natural since it can't be attacked). But also, if Zerg takes egg natural, there's a chance opponent could also theorize a sunken rush since they likely won't make lings at that location... Very curious for how ZvZ will play out.

On January 01 2025 14:20 FlaShFTW wrote:

I think that even if Death Valley is unbalanced, I do hope to see some very unique and interesting strategies on the map, which will give viewers memorable games. Ultimately, while we do want to see who the best players in the world are, we also are watching for our entertainment.

For Deja Vu changes, I have no examined the buildable terrain changes. I hope that we do not totally remove buildable terrain and give some options for Terran, similar to how Radeon's choke is set up with specific spots to build turrets. I think both Protoss and Terran players should give feedback to map maker to discuss what would be fair for buildable and unbuildable. I agree with no turrets right on top of the ramp, but maybe farther back is ok? Maybe just below the high ground in the center low ground area would be an acceptable area to build turrets so that a shuttle may still die, but will get the unload off on the zealots at least for a bust if Terran attempts to secure high ground. It would encourage Terran to at least feel like they must secure the Protoss's choke point and move forward, rather than sitting back and shelling Protoss area.

On January 01 2025 18:29 namkraft wrote:
Very cool stuff. How can download these maps?? I clicked the first link but there are photos only !?

On January 01 2025 19:44 POPsNemec wrote:


You can download using it this link.
https://910map.tistory.com/214

Previously, the 910 manager uploaded map files individually.
However, due to security problem on the Tistory site, only compressed zip files can be uploaded from now on.

On January 02 2025 02:11 namkraft wrote:


Thanks! And which version fit to play? Sorry I'm a newb for these maps.
(fog) version
(Ob) version
and plain version (nothing in bracket)

On January 02 2025 17:57 SiaBBo wrote:
Is there a way to suggest maps to be used in ASL?

On January 03 2025 03:34 FlaShFTW wrote:

Thanks for all your comments and the discussion we're having. I appreciate reaching out to our community to get our feedback and comments.

On January 07 2025 00:08 Rainalcar wrote:
I would welcome more diversity. Too many maps are very standard. We haven't seen a real island map in ages, etc.

On January 07 2025 00:39 Kraekkling wrote:
7. Added a small ramped high ground at the center that leads nowhere:
I actually like this addition. It seems to align with the effort to make the center part of the map (now with gas expansions) more relevant. Two potential uses come to mind: First, units on the high ground can provide vision over parts of the map, functioning somewhat like an inaccessible watchtower. Second, it could be a spot to place tanks, though this might be only relevant for TvT. Overall it seems like a very minor change with no downsides.

On January 07 2025 02:19 cheesehuehue wrote:
Also, most of the changes in mineral and gas positions make Terran less harassable by mutalisks. In summary, the new version is much more favorable for Terran in TvZ than the old version.

On January 18 2025 23:57 POPsNemec wrote:
Regardless of the map maker's efforts, Death Valley will not be used in PL.
The reason is simple: they dislike complex maps.

As long as the PL-centric system remains in place, their overall level of play will continue to decline.
Even if a player isn’t that skilled, they can just join a strong team and still win.
So, there’s no real need to improve.

Complex maps require more games to fully understand them.
But they no longer have a reason to put in the effort to improve,
which is why they avoid playing on such maps.

This map will keep getting banned in tournaments,
and even if it does get played, it will likely result in uninspired, low-quality games.\

The gamers I once admired no longer have the same passion. That’s why I don’t really like pro-gamers anymore.

I think most map makers feel the same way. They create maps simply because they love BW,

I once hoped for "the next Boxer," but instead, "the next Boxer" emerged in another game—LOL (Faker.)

1. Protoss favors 2-player maps the most.

On January 19 2025 22:10 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Apocalypse was an amazing 3 player map. Invader was a standard 2 player map but because of its layout produced a lot of unique games. Minstrel would have been awesome if it wasn't for how the mineral patches and small opening created massive pathing problem. If minstrel hadn't used eggs to create super narrow paths to move through but instead larger structures to create broader spaces it would have been fine. Or if the third base option had a protected backside.

On February 04 2025 12:29 GTR wrote:
Map pool is finalized with new maps releasing with their 1.0 iteration.

On February 04 2025 19:39 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote:

It is in. But progamers are not using it in proleagues.

So in SSL this map will be vetoed by all of them i guess.

On February 05 2025 04:25 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:

Yeah this is exactly why I was wondering if it was still in. Not even seeing it being played in sponsor games.

On February 05 2025 04:25 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:

Yeah this is exactly why I was wondering if it was still in. Not even seeing it being played in sponsor games.

On February 07 2025 00:41 FlaShFTW wrote:
Do they hate the map because the map is bad, or do they hate it simply because it's different?

Listen, I get the pros just want to prep and practice on standard maps, but also, we had these weird quirky maps all the time in kespa days, especially with proleague. Fuck it, let the teams in k league/proleague pick a player to send out specifically to snipe on that map, let games be interesting.

On February 07 2025 00:41 FlaShFTW wrote:
Do they hate the map because the map is bad, or do they hate it simply because it's different?

Listen, I get the pros just want to prep and practice on standard maps, but also, we had these weird quirky maps all the time in kespa days, especially with proleague. Fuck it, let the teams in k league/proleague pick a player to send out specifically to snipe on that map, let games be interesting.

On February 07 2025 22:54 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
It's not even about Death Valley in particular but about total unwillingness to play even mildly semi-standard maps overall.

On February 08 2025 01:10 Mutaller wrote:


That's not true though, they've played on Nemesis, La Campanella, Blitz Y, Monty Hall, Kick Back, Minstrel, and probably more.

They also have played on ASL candidate maps like Citadel.

There's two reasons why it wouldn't be played in my opinion: That it has undergone multiple drastic patches, and it might have serious balance issues such as a map like 76

On February 08 2025 10:33 TMNT wrote:
Weird maps demand more effort in attention and mechanics. Most top players are now in their mid-30s. I think it's just time they can't try hard anymore. Maybe in 5 years they'll all hang up their keyboards.

On February 09 2025 00:19 Ideas wrote:
I wonder if they're more open to at least bringing back older non-traditional maps from earlier ASLs? That way they are already familiar with them at least. Aka Whiteout, Tripod, Inner Coven...

On February 09 2025 10:18 gravity wrote:
When is SSL2 scheduled to start?

On February 09 2025 17:30 M3t4PhYzX wrote:

Sometime in march, apparently (thanks to some Bli$$ard licensing fuckery).

On February 09 2025 18:52 iFU.pauline wrote:
Good that Death Valley is not being played. That map seems appealing at first but a third gas accessible directly from the main, fuck this, this set up always triggers the most boring games ever. However, to not be too negative, I believe that if they remove this feature, it would be an entire different story. I usually dislike any map which encourages turtling as it is ugly to play and ugly to watch.