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[ASL17] Tier list maker

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 00:27:33
February 26 2024 23:05 GMT
#1
Made a tierlist template for ASL 17 Participants.
Give it a shot if you're interested in ranking the players to your hearts content.
https://tiermaker.com/create/asl-season-17-tier-list-16848610
you can use eloboard to somewhat help insire your choices:
https://eloboard.com/men/bbs/board.php?bo_table=rank_list

Example of mine:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]



I can make more tier list templates for this specific ASL if someone wants another type. For example per race tier list. Per match-up tier list. etc.
JDON MY SOUL!
Smorrie
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands2922 Posts
February 26 2024 23:46 GMT
#2
Is this a disguised advertisement for Action? ^^
It has a strong technique, but it lacks oo.
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
February 27 2024 00:24 GMT
#3
On February 27 2024 08:46 Smorrie wrote:
Is this a disguised advertisement for Action? ^^

:^) I would never do such a thing.
JDON MY SOUL!
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States903 Posts
February 27 2024 00:54 GMT
#4
I did mine without looking at ELO or your image, basically from my feeling that the Zerg I put at S would have a tough match against anyone in that S tier, but everyone else is not quite the same level, so my S rank is not quite that exclusive, but those players are all that good in my opinion

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 01:26:20
February 27 2024 01:24 GMT
#5
On February 27 2024 09:54 iopq wrote:
I did mine without looking at ELO or your image, basically from my feeling that the Zerg I put at S would have a tough match against anyone in that S tier, but everyone else is not quite the same level, so my S rank is not quite that exclusive, but those players are all that good in my opinion

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


very interesting ranking. Quite surprised by your Hero placing. He's got quite good placings in ASL historically speaking. Going by the last few ASL he got:
ASL#16 top 8
ASL#15 top 4
ASL#14 top 4
ASL#13 top 16
ASL#12 top 4
ASL#11 top 4.
That's 4 top 4 finishes in the last 6 ASL seasons.
The two times he did not make it to top 4 he got eliminated by JyJ and Soulkey in Ro16(ASL 13) and by Rush in Ro8(ASL15.) If anything he seems to somewhat consistently be capable of performing on stage better than most can. ALTHOUGH he didn't make it ino ASL16...which is a good argument for your ranking of Shine.
Jaedong and Bisu's placements I can understand based off of their recent ASL performances.

Likewise your Shine placing feels low with his two most recent placings being top 12 and top 8. Him specifically having way too many viable and diverse build orders up his sleeve makes him particularly dangerous.
JDON MY SOUL!
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10114 Posts
February 27 2024 03:36 GMT
#6
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Here's what I have and my methodology:

S - Players who are likely to make the semis/finals/win.
A - Players who are likely to make the bracket, and an outside shot of making the finals or even winning.
B - Players who have a solid shot of making the bracket, but don't expect a deep run past that. Likely the players that will teeter on the edge of either groups or bracket.
C - Players who will probably get knocked out in the groups, with an unlikely chance to make the bracket. (Shine is an odd one with his bag of builds, can never really count him out but you also wouldn't bet on him to make the bracket).
D - Players who are almost guaranteed to get eliminated in Ro16.
E/F - Extremely unlikely to make it out of their Ro24 groups. If they get lucky to advance, I give them 0 chance to advance from the Ro16.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
Giovanni8
Profile Joined March 2022
57 Posts
February 27 2024 11:37 GMT
#7
Taengu is F 100%
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 13:52:42
February 27 2024 13:52 GMT
#8
On February 27 2024 20:37 Giovanni8 wrote:
Taengu is F 100%


hmm but is Taenggu > Sea?
JDON MY SOUL!
FriedrichNietzsche
Profile Joined January 2024
92 Posts
February 27 2024 13:58 GMT
#9
On February 27 2024 22:52 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2024 20:37 Giovanni8 wrote:
Taengu is F 100%


hmm but is Taenggu > Sea?


absolutely

but RL setting changes things a lot.. so in a booth for ASL stakes who knows.. taenggu will be at least a bite nervous and maybe nervous as fuck

Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8082 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 14:31:04
February 27 2024 14:27 GMT
#10
My list:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


No idea how good TY is right now. I am waiting for Tastosis cast so I haven't seen Ro24 group A yet. I'm basing this off of current map pool, past ASL performances, KCM, and occasionally watching Proleague matches. Of course the way that groups get set up in the Ro16 will great affect who makes it to the finals. And any random cheese from a C-F player can still take down a S-class player (also ZvZ is still a coinflip for pretty much any Zerg on this list).
Free Palestine
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10114 Posts
February 27 2024 17:09 GMT
#11
On February 27 2024 23:27 Ideas wrote:
My list:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


No idea how good TY is right now. I am waiting for Tastosis cast so I haven't seen Ro24 group A yet. I'm basing this off of current map pool, past ASL performances, KCM, and occasionally watching Proleague matches. Of course the way that groups get set up in the Ro16 will great affect who makes it to the finals. And any random cheese from a C-F player can still take down a S-class player (also ZvZ is still a coinflip for pretty much any Zerg on this list).

Any reason for herO to be below Bisu and Light to not be S? I guess Light's ASL performances as a whole have been quite poor historically but he's having a monster year so far. And always hard to count out Mr. semifinal in hero.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4170 Posts
February 27 2024 19:45 GMT
#12
My list -->

S: Light, Mini, hero, Mind, Rush, Soulkey, Snow, Best
A: Rain, Action, Jaedong, JyJ, Sharp, RoyaL, Bisu
B: Mong, Shuttle, sSak
C: BarrackS, Shine, Stork
D: beast, Killer
E: Speed, TY, TaeNgGu
F: Sea, ZeLoT
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States903 Posts
February 27 2024 20:22 GMT
#13
On February 27 2024 10:24 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2024 09:54 iopq wrote:
I did mine without looking at ELO or your image, basically from my feeling that the Zerg I put at S would have a tough match against anyone in that S tier, but everyone else is not quite the same level, so my S rank is not quite that exclusive, but those players are all that good in my opinion

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


very interesting ranking. Quite surprised by your Hero placing. He's got quite good placings in ASL historically speaking. Going by the last few ASL he got:
ASL#16 top 8
ASL#15 top 4
ASL#14 top 4
ASL#13 top 16
ASL#12 top 4
ASL#11 top 4.
That's 4 top 4 finishes in the last 6 ASL seasons.
The two times he did not make it to top 4 he got eliminated by JyJ and Soulkey in Ro16(ASL 13) and by Rush in Ro8(ASL15.) If anything he seems to somewhat consistently be capable of performing on stage better than most can. ALTHOUGH he didn't make it ino ASL16...which is a good argument for your ranking of Shine.
Jaedong and Bisu's placements I can understand based off of their recent ASL performances.

Likewise your Shine placing feels low with his two most recent placings being top 12 and top 8. Him specifically having way too many viable and diverse build orders up his sleeve makes him particularly dangerous.


I agree, he can be A tier. As for Shine, he is dangerous, but it's more like he can beat anyone, but can easily lose to anyone. Hard to rate him since he could easily lose games to F tier players, but beat S tier players
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4978 Posts
February 27 2024 20:41 GMT
#14
Given I have already seen group A and C.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
FBH #1!
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 20:44:36
February 27 2024 20:41 GMT
#15
On February 28 2024 05:22 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2024 10:24 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
On February 27 2024 09:54 iopq wrote:
I did mine without looking at ELO or your image, basically from my feeling that the Zerg I put at S would have a tough match against anyone in that S tier, but everyone else is not quite the same level, so my S rank is not quite that exclusive, but those players are all that good in my opinion

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


very interesting ranking. Quite surprised by your Hero placing. He's got quite good placings in ASL historically speaking. Going by the last few ASL he got:
ASL#16 top 8
ASL#15 top 4
ASL#14 top 4
ASL#13 top 16
ASL#12 top 4
ASL#11 top 4.
That's 4 top 4 finishes in the last 6 ASL seasons.
The two times he did not make it to top 4 he got eliminated by JyJ and Soulkey in Ro16(ASL 13) and by Rush in Ro8(ASL15.) If anything he seems to somewhat consistently be capable of performing on stage better than most can. ALTHOUGH he didn't make it ino ASL16...which is a good argument for your ranking of Shine.
Jaedong and Bisu's placements I can understand based off of their recent ASL performances.

Likewise your Shine placing feels low with his two most recent placings being top 12 and top 8. Him specifically having way too many viable and diverse build orders up his sleeve makes him particularly dangerous.


I agree, he can be A tier. As for Shine, he is dangerous, but it's more like he can beat anyone, but can easily lose to anyone. Hard to rate him since he could easily lose games to F tier players, but beat S tier players

Shine definitely lacks in more orthodox defensive scenarios. If his diverse pack of builds doesn't get him offensive leverage, he tends to get picked apart either quick or slowly.

I've talked with some pro terrans and key thing they mentioned about Shine wasn't actually his diverse builds, but his mutalisk control being particularly good even amongst the other top zergs.

On February 28 2024 05:41 Peeano wrote:
Given I have already seen group A and C.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


You placed Rain and Sharp surprisingly low
JDON MY SOUL!
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4978 Posts
February 27 2024 21:21 GMT
#16
On February 28 2024 05:41 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2024 05:22 iopq wrote:
On February 27 2024 10:24 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
On February 27 2024 09:54 iopq wrote:
I did mine without looking at ELO or your image, basically from my feeling that the Zerg I put at S would have a tough match against anyone in that S tier, but everyone else is not quite the same level, so my S rank is not quite that exclusive, but those players are all that good in my opinion

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


very interesting ranking. Quite surprised by your Hero placing. He's got quite good placings in ASL historically speaking. Going by the last few ASL he got:
ASL#16 top 8
ASL#15 top 4
ASL#14 top 4
ASL#13 top 16
ASL#12 top 4
ASL#11 top 4.
That's 4 top 4 finishes in the last 6 ASL seasons.
The two times he did not make it to top 4 he got eliminated by JyJ and Soulkey in Ro16(ASL 13) and by Rush in Ro8(ASL15.) If anything he seems to somewhat consistently be capable of performing on stage better than most can. ALTHOUGH he didn't make it ino ASL16...which is a good argument for your ranking of Shine.
Jaedong and Bisu's placements I can understand based off of their recent ASL performances.

Likewise your Shine placing feels low with his two most recent placings being top 12 and top 8. Him specifically having way too many viable and diverse build orders up his sleeve makes him particularly dangerous.


I agree, he can be A tier. As for Shine, he is dangerous, but it's more like he can beat anyone, but can easily lose to anyone. Hard to rate him since he could easily lose games to F tier players, but beat S tier players

Shine definitely lacks in more orthodox defensive scenarios. If his diverse pack of builds doesn't get him offensive leverage, he tends to get picked apart either quick or slowly.

I've talked with some pro terrans and key thing they mentioned about Shine wasn't actually his diverse builds, but his mutalisk control being particularly good even amongst the other top zergs.

Show nested quote +
On February 28 2024 05:41 Peeano wrote:
Given I have already seen group A and C.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


You placed Rain and Sharp surprisingly low

Rain loves to play League and I've been disappointed in rooting for Sharp more than once lol.
FBH #1!
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8082 Posts
February 27 2024 21:53 GMT
#17
On February 28 2024 02:09 FlaShFTW wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 27 2024 23:27 Ideas wrote:
My list:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


No idea how good TY is right now. I am waiting for Tastosis cast so I haven't seen Ro24 group A yet. I'm basing this off of current map pool, past ASL performances, KCM, and occasionally watching Proleague matches. Of course the way that groups get set up in the Ro16 will great affect who makes it to the finals. And any random cheese from a C-F player can still take down a S-class player (also ZvZ is still a coinflip for pretty much any Zerg on this list).

Any reason for herO to be below Bisu and Light to not be S? I guess Light's ASL performances as a whole have been quite poor historically but he's having a monster year so far. And always hard to count out Mr. semifinal in hero.


Light keeps losing to protoss in KCM but I guess that's a totally different category of competition/importance than proleague/ASL? I dunno, these maps are really tough for TvP. He's also very susceptible to smart cheese from Zerg in early rounds. but maybe he breezes through to Ro8.

Bisu is a choker historically in ASL and very susceptible to well-planned sniper builds. Would love to proven wrong as he's playing really well lately. Hero does good in ASL but maps seem bad for him and he's been not seeming that great to me whenever I catch him playing? Maybe I only catch his proleague games where he loses? But his recent KCM performance is very disappointing (same with pretty much all zergs that arent action or soulkey).
Free Palestine
RJBTVYOUTUBE
Profile Joined December 2023
Netherlands799 Posts
February 27 2024 22:10 GMT
#18
On February 28 2024 06:21 Peeano wrote:
Rain loves to play League and I've been disappointed in rooting for Sharp more than once lol.


haha, fair call. Rain really does love doing other things than Starcraft. He does play a decent amount of matches on a monthly basis, but nowhere close to the others. We'll see how well adapted to the maps he is or isn't in his Ro24.

On February 28 2024 06:53 Ideas wrote:
Light keeps losing to protoss in KCM but I guess that's a totally different category of competition/importance than proleague/ASL? I dunno, these maps are really tough for TvP. He's also very susceptible to smart cheese from Zerg in early rounds. but maybe he breezes through to Ro8.

Bisu is a choker historically in ASL and very susceptible to well-planned sniper builds. Would love to proven wrong as he's playing really well lately. Hero does good in ASL but maps seem bad for him and he's been not seeming that great to me whenever I catch him playing? Maybe I only catch his proleague games where he loses? But his recent KCM performance is very disappointing (same with pretty much all zergs that arent action or soulkey).


Light is 17-8 over Februari against Protoss according to Eloboard. He has won 11 TvP in a row. He beat, in order of most recent to least recent: Best, Best, SnOw, Shuttle, Mini, Mini, Best, Bisu, SnOw, Best, Mini. He is looking rather strong in TvP based off of those games. Light is definitely susceptible to cheese considering he's a "standard play specialist". But everyone is susceptible to cheese.

HerO seems to be going about 50/50 vs top contenders and tier 2 contenders. Definitely seems to lagg behind a little bit in adjusting to the new maps compared to Action and Soulkey.

JDON MY SOUL!
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13004 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-02-27 22:49:03
February 27 2024 22:46 GMT
#19
For me:

S: Hero, Light, Mini, Royal, Rush, SK, Snow.
A: Action, Best, Bisu, JYJ
B: Barracks, JD, Mind, Rain, Sharp, Shuttle, SSak
C: Killer, Mong, Stork, Shine
D: Beast, Speed
E: Taengu, TY
F: Zelot, Sea.

For me, S class are the guys who are elite in every matchup. Winner will 95% come from this group for mine. Mini was tough here. He can be a bit shaky sometimes, especially in PvT, but given he was runner up last year I've added him here.

A class is guys who are generally elite in 2 matchups, vulnerable in one. JYJ is shaky vs P, Best vs Z, Bisu vs T etc. This is not to say Bisu, for example, is bad vs Terran, I just don't see him as elite compared to say Snow.

B class: rock solid players but not quite elite. These guys can def make a deep run if the bracket falls favourably but hard to see any of them making the semis.

C and below: making up the numbers. Maybe one of them makes the ro16 but pretty unlikely.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8082 Posts
February 27 2024 23:07 GMT
#20
On February 28 2024 07:10 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2024 06:21 Peeano wrote:
Rain loves to play League and I've been disappointed in rooting for Sharp more than once lol.


haha, fair call. Rain really does love doing other things than Starcraft. He does play a decent amount of matches on a monthly basis, but nowhere close to the others. We'll see how well adapted to the maps he is or isn't in his Ro24.

Show nested quote +
On February 28 2024 06:53 Ideas wrote:
Light keeps losing to protoss in KCM but I guess that's a totally different category of competition/importance than proleague/ASL? I dunno, these maps are really tough for TvP. He's also very susceptible to smart cheese from Zerg in early rounds. but maybe he breezes through to Ro8.

Bisu is a choker historically in ASL and very susceptible to well-planned sniper builds. Would love to proven wrong as he's playing really well lately. Hero does good in ASL but maps seem bad for him and he's been not seeming that great to me whenever I catch him playing? Maybe I only catch his proleague games where he loses? But his recent KCM performance is very disappointing (same with pretty much all zergs that arent action or soulkey).


Light is 17-8 over Februari against Protoss according to Eloboard. He has won 11 TvP in a row. He beat, in order of most recent to least recent: Best, Best, SnOw, Shuttle, Mini, Mini, Best, Bisu, SnOw, Best, Mini. He is looking rather strong in TvP based off of those games. Light is definitely susceptible to cheese considering he's a "standard play specialist". But everyone is susceptible to cheese.

HerO seems to be going about 50/50 vs top contenders and tier 2 contenders. Definitely seems to lagg behind a little bit in adjusting to the new maps compared to Action and Soulkey.



Yea those stats are super impressive. I hope we get to see him play a long series vs one of the top Protoss

at the same time he hasn't quite shown the hunger in ASL since winning a couple years back... That's sort of a factor that I wasn't taking into account when I made my list. Some players really lose their hunger/urgency to win after getting a title (Royal, Rain, Light, etc). Even in Kespa days it was mostly standard for players to go into a slump for a while after winning an OSL until flash/JD came along (excluding nada of course).

Who still has the hunger for an ASL? It's switched hands every time since Queen's second win. Is it finally Snow's turn? Rush and hero have come close multiple times as well but never gotten it (but both are not playing as good as usual right now). Sharp is playing the best he's played in years, maybe this is his last chance to take a title before his flair is gone for good?
Free Palestine
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