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On December 18 2023 03:36 tedster wrote:Putting someone in a position of prominance/power in front of a community that person has actively preyed upon is definitely choosing to take on some of the responsibility for that person's actions and the harm/trauma they cause. That's how being in a position of responsibility (which ZZZero is) works. It's no different than when the high-ups at a company shield a sexually-harassing manager that they like - the company/execs bear responsibility for the actions they knowingly cover up/protect. Again, there's a huge difference between choosing to support someone in your private life, which isn't something I'd ever criticise like this, and using your public forum to prop that person at the expense of people they've hurt. You can support someone and encourage them to grow and learn and improve without giving them the mic again and forcing other people to deal with it who haven't consented to forgive and forget.
Remember, ZZZero banned him from BSL stuff originally and ZZZero's comment is behind 'confess, clarify, address, resolve, apologize'. It's not like he's saying "Hey bro just apologize and you're good I'll let you cast again", he's saying "I won't let Rapid cast again for BSL stuff until/unless there's a resolution to this matter."
Having a strong stance against your friends is fucking hard, and from the little I can see it seems like ZZZero is doing that. I understand your position and largely agree with it, but I disagree with your read on ZZZero's messaging. He certainly isn't freely forgiving anyone and welcoming them back into a public space without anyone else's consent.
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I'm not claiming he's freely forgiving anyone, but I am pointing out that he is approaching this from the wrong angle of trying to lay the path for Rapid to get back on the mic (which, to be frank, he already allowed him to do showing he's not really sticking to his guns here). He's creating a series of checkboxes that will let him potentially rationalize this in the future rather than keeping it a matter between him and his friend while allowing the community to move on and heal.
There is absolutely no value to the community in getting Rapid back in a caster position at this point, and a great deal of harm. ZZZero doesn't get to decide for Rapid's victims, or all the people who would be hurt/upset by his presence in a community event, when it's time to forgive and forget. I'm 100% all for personal forgiveness and I agree having a stance against your friends can be the hardest thing in the world and I don't fault ZZZero at all for wanting to maintain a friendship and help his friend crawl out of a hole. Floating a bunch of "what ifs" that imply he'd invite him back to cast BSLs in the future if Rapid apologized to some people is a completely different story and I'm asking him to take a long hard look at this logic.
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Next time rapid is casting im sure there will be a boycott, this shit doesnt fly twice.
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I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous
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On December 20 2023 04:35 vTv.Marine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous
Of course false accusations are HORRIFIC! As well as true things that happen and people never speak up. Of course it's hard to speak up, but if you don't it just helps the abuser (whoever they may be).
I think we've gone over this in the threads a few times, but the point is if you are going to be in the public eye the issue has to be addressed at the very least. I don't think that's too much to ask for.
The danger goes both ways btw. Even now without any public statement from the guy we have a person on NetWars website who has this take on it for example:
#96] MistrZZZ
#89 good. Viewers watch because they want good entertainment, not because the caster is a good person outside of the community. I personally don't give two fucks if someone killed another person as long as that person will not hurt me. If he's doing a good job then let him do it. Fuck 'murrican retarded culture full of pussies and morons.
I'm glad they typed it in English so I don't have to use translate like the other posts (and potentially get something wrong or lost in translation):
https://netwars-pl.translate.goog/temat/181816?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
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On December 20 2023 08:07 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2023 04:35 vTv.Marine wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm not defending Rapid, as I'm completely unaware of what happened beyond what I've read online. However, I've seen some people suggest that if he were innocent (which, again, I have no idea about and am not commenting on), he would come forward and offer a statement. I believe this is not entirely accurate.
I myself have been a victim of some disturbing incidents between 2010 and 2013 and was wrongfully accused by some members of this community. I never came forward, not because I was guilty, but simply because I wanted to put that chapter behind me, and I didn't feel the need for the world to know what happened. I felt like my inner circle knew the truth and that was more than enough for me.
Looking back, I realize I should have spoken up and defended myself, as it not only affected my reputation but also took a toll on my mental health. However, when things happen, not everyone reacts the same way.
Again, I'm not defending Rapid in any way, shape, or form. Never spoke, or met the guy (Unless it's Get.Rapid from back in the day? If anyone know let me know).
I'm just pointing out that assuming an innocent person would '100% come forward' is not accurate. Making such a general statement based on how one might react and assuming everyone would respond the same way can be misleading and even dangerous Of course false accusations are HORRIFIC! As well as true things that happen and people never speak up. Of course it's hard to speak up, but if you don't it just helps the abuser (whoever they may be). I think we've gone over this in the threads a few times, but the point is if you are going to be in the public eye the issue has to be addressed at the very least. I don't think that's too much to ask for. The danger goes both ways btw. Even now without any public statement from the guy we have a person on NetWars website who has this take on it for example: Show nested quote +#96] MistrZZZ
#89 good. Viewers watch because they want good entertainment, not because the caster is a good person outside of the community. I personally don't give two fucks if someone killed another person as long as that person will not hurt me. If he's doing a good job then let him do it. Fuck 'murrican retarded culture full of pussies and morons. I'm glad they typed it in English so I don't have to use translate like the other posts (and potentially get something wrong or lost in translation): https://netwars-pl.translate.goog/temat/181816?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
I didn't only mean false accusation. But I mean falsely accusing someone because of a non-answer (again -- not defending Rapid, I know nothing about this situation).
But it happened to me and it happened to me VERY hard. And reading this post, I also feel like some people are going at ZZZero for the same reason for unjustified reasons. Some people have been hard on him and I think he didn't deserved it at all.
MistrZZZ isn't necessarily the best person you want to quote or take seriously tbh. Dude been a clown for a very long time now. Loud mouths are always gonna be there (MistrZZZ is the perfect proof of that). Very easy to deal with that especially when you see him IRL. But when it come to serious accusations, we need to be more careful and let the pieces come together.
All I'm saying is, don't just assume because someone doesn't provide an immediate statement mean the person is guilty.
I love this community and been a part of it since 2000. Matter of fact, RIP to Geoff (iNcontroL) I remember paying him 8$ an hour to coach me on the WEST server back in 2002. I love nothing more than this community. But man we have to be careful with accusations.
I went quiet after 2011 because of some deep things that happened to me living with some starcraft players that almost costed the life of someone and I've chosen at that time to shut my mouth. That doesn't mean nothing happened to me (which is why in that case I'm actually really happy the victims are speaking out and I hope they keep doing so (in Rapid case)).
As for Rapid, if you really did that then the best thing you can do is just come forward. Apologize, be a man about it and move on. It will be better for both you and the people you hurted. Some people will forgive you, some people won't but at least you will have the peace of mind and I'm sure it will help some of your allegedly victims.
I ain't got no dogs in this fight -- I just want people to know that you have to be careful when throwing accusations. Some people stay quiet and don't pursue because they are actually scared. It took me a long long time to accept what happened to me and I'm sure it's the same for many people.
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Thanks, I love u too mr nobody. Too bad you have hard times reading, so u missed a bunch of comments in which I straighten up that exact comment which I actually disagree with. Doesn't matter, you better quote it, print it and then for the next 20 years wait for a proper situation to use it against me, because that's what your life is all about.
The fact that you judge a person's character based on a few pictures also reflects the mindset of an average cancel culture follower. I’m not interested in engaging in a conversation with you or others who share similar iq and lack of understanding of the world as a whole. You are free to ban me on the forum for not subscribing to your illogical and inconsistent worldview, which I and many other intelligent people disagree with. Better get rid of any signs of intelligence, otherwise someone may eventually point out that banning Rapid from casting will not change his fetish and will have exactly 0 effect on that particular part of his life. Only people who will lose are those who enjoyed his entertaining casts and the whole starcraft community which has very limited casters who are at his level.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 21 2023 07:12 sexyMIStrZZZ wrote:
Thanks, I love u too mr nobody. Too bad you have hard times reading, so u missed a bunch of comments in which I straighten up that exact comment which I actually disagree with. Doesn't matter, you better quote it, print it and then for the next 20 years wait for a proper situation to use it against me, because that's what your life is all about.
The fact that you judge a person's character based on a few pictures also reflects the mindset of an average cancel culture follower. I’m not interested in engaging in a conversation with you or others who share similar iq and lack of understanding of the world as a whole. You are free to ban me on the forum for not subscribing to your illogical and inconsistent worldview, which I and many other intelligent people disagree with. Better get rid of any signs of intelligence, otherwise someone may eventually point out that banning Rapid from casting will not change his fetish and will have exactly 0 effect on that particular part of his life. Only people who will lose are those who enjoyed his entertaining casts and the whole starcraft community which has very limited casters who are at his level.
User was temp banned for this post.
Do you even read before you write you sausage?
You look like a celery out there. I sent you a DM and we can handle it right now. Go read your DM and stop with the typing you twat.
User was warned for this post
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I don't care that much what RAPiD did, it's not like he's convicted rapist or something. Everything else he did via messenging is his private life and it's none of our business. The only thing I hate about him that he vanished like coward and that's why he deserves banishment.
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It seems that many people are following this case but only some people actually commented. So I made an anonymous poll regarding the future of Rapid's casting career. Cast your vote if you have a say on the matter.
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I'm sure there are two sides to this story.
Poor guy. He was a good caster. It's sad.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
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person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
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On January 07 2024 08:11 tankgirl wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm sure there are two sides to this story.
Poor guy. He was a good caster. It's sad.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
Seems we've reached the "GowDin's lOw" point in this thread ^_._^
https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/Godwins-law
P.S. Flash has issued an apology. Rapid didn't seem ashamed to me in all those LAN photos.
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On January 07 2024 21:23 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
Best post ITT and the other locked thread, everything else is just blabla.
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Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On January 07 2024 21:23 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
person above misses the point that Rapid abused his position to sexually harass people. The things he did are directly connected to the position he had and are not exactly "private matters". Tankgirl's logic is flawed to begin with. If someone abuses their position you take away their position and dont give that position back to them. You also don't give a serial offender access to new victims. Up until Rapid proves he wont offend again, you keep him away. He is not some monster, he is just a human. But it is most responsible for everyone to keep him away.
Yes this 100%, as someone who has long-term volunteered at a big convention over here that takes safeguarding VERY seriously. There would be a marked difference in reaction and potential suitability to continue in such a role if I’d merely had some hypothetical private embarrassment, versus me actively pursuing attendees at events.
Now, my pull is a lesser one I’d imagine as an amateur SC2 caster at a general event than someone like Rapid who was in industry, and his would be lesser again than an Artosis type.
But part of a role where you have any kind of prestige or rep comes with a responsibility not to leverage admiration in ways that aren’t ethical. And this doesn’t just cover sexual impropriety of course, see the Flash et al crypto controversy for something in another domain.
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remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
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On January 07 2024 21:25 LUCKY_NOOB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2024 08:11 tankgirl wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'm sure there are two sides to this story.
Poor guy. He was a good caster. It's sad.
Im shocked by the number of posters who took sides and seem deeply offended by events that didn't even involve them.
There was a time long ago when personal and private lives were separate. If Rapid is Hilter 2.0, did anyone press charges? Surely if he is accused of serious criminal behaviour and wrongdoing, he should have the right to due process and if found guilty, be given an opportunity to pay his debts and move on with his life? Or did everyone just jump on the witch-hunt bandwagon and smear his name into oblivion?
Talk about a lynch mob...it was 3 years ago...what the hell do you want? Can you imagine the shame he must be dealing with all that time?
I don't know rapid, I never met rapid, I never had anything to do with rapid, but I feel quite comfortable passing judgment on a complex situation by saying he's clearly not like the rest of us infallible humans and should be sent to the gulag with Jeffrey Weinstein.
"Ahh, there's no justice like angry mob Justice."-- Principal Seymour Skinner
It's threads like these that make it plainly obvious is why FlaSh is never coming back.
Seems we've reached the "GowDin's lOw" point in this thread ^_._^ https://www.techtarget.com/whatis/definition/Godwins-lawP.S. Flash has issued an apology. Rapid didn't seem ashamed to me in all those LAN photos.
Yes people make references to popular culture and historical figures to make points.
I also references Jeffrey Weinstein.
I will now only meta-reference GowDin's law in future. Thank you for enlightening me in me on the many interesting ways of the internet. I don't live here, I just stop by once every few months.
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On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote:
remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric.
Funny you saying that. What Savior did was ten times worse than what Rapid is accused of. Savior single-handedly destroyed BW scene. If Rapid did what he did at that era no one would give a flying shit about it. Times change.
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On January 08 2024 08:35 outscar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2024 02:12 quaristice wrote:
remembering how day[9] said in a video "i hope savior dies"
and then i compare rapid and savior's situations and how the community at large reacted, and so on.
it says a lot about people's priorities and what they find valuable. i don't mean to minimize savior's behavior, i think savior *should* be banned for life. but then you have this situation which is definitely worse by any reasonable metric. Funny you saying that. What Savior did was ten times worse than what Rapid is accused of. Savior single-handedly destroyed BW scene. If Rapid did what he did at that era no one would give a flying shit about it. Times change.
In that era, there were still small scale sponsorship in foreign bw by the likes of Razer, steelseries etc... An accusation like Rapid is facing would have been extra toxic to them and been dealt with switfly then too. Faster than now where sponsors are essentially gone.
That being said you are right, savior s crimes are way worse
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EPT
