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On July 21 2021 21:37 ...onmYwaY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2021 16:21 ReachTheSky wrote:On July 21 2021 09:23 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Yeha.... and I really don’t like it when people try to romanticize the old KESPA days. Players were locked up by sponsors who payed them next to nothing and the audience got a few games a week during an active season.
For the audience there was perhaps some romanization of the mysterious pro gamer hidden behind the curtain just to pop up and make a magic trick happen before being shoved off.
I would guess that close to all players who experienced that world is very happy where things are now. And we as audience should too as we get so much more content, more than we can chew.
And never try to romanticize the foreign scene of old. It was not better than now, trust me. Go and compare WCG where commentators before tasteless didn’t even know the names of the units.
Perhaps we have been over exposed for a while and need some time to digest but I think Korea will always keep BW going to some extent. Leave it be for 2-3 months and people will queue for the next ASL. Locked up? That is some serious hyperbole. They were bound to contracts, Just like any real sport. It was no different than being signed to a team in the nba where you were bound by contract only play basketball professionally in the official nba leagues, because it was completely understandable. Players at least got paid a wage they could live off of. Kespa legitimized starcraft as a sport. If it weren't for Kespa, the korean starcraft scene would have never grown as big as it had. Kespa even handled contract negotiations. Kespa was even responsible for making starcraft mainstream on tv through mbcgame and ongamenet. If it weren't for kespa, players like boxer, nada etc etc would have never gotten the big salaries that they did. If it weren't for Kespa, sc1 in korea would have been completely wildwest just like the sc2 scene when it came to teams and players getting paid. If we pretend for a second that a governing body like Kespa wasn't a good thing, then the sc1 scene would have stagnated and fallen off just like the sc2 scene did. Why? Because Kespa brought real structure to the scene. They implemented real qualifications for being a progamer. They created an actual process. If it weren't for Kespa, absolutely nobody in the sc1 or sc2 playerbase would have been inspired to become a pro gamer. Kespa was the main reason sc1 was as successful as it was as an esport and I think it's important to recognize that. This is what I mean. I never said that KeSPA was not good for the scene from a marketing or packaging point of view. They did a real good job to romanticize the scene. They made Boxer, Nada etc. as shining examples of what could be if you were on top of the game. Truth is that 99% of the rest struggled for years. They saw money to be made from youth who sacrificed everything to play the game. It is what it is, and kudos to all the players that made it though, but anyone can admit that it was a pretty hard time, that probably broke a lot of people. Yeh... they did get contracts signed. Contrats that would break you, and me and most of the people here within months. Don't even try to compare it to an NBA contract where you can go home to your family every day - instead of sitting in a crammed apartment with 20 others in front of a screen 12 hours a day. There is nothing romantic about that. I think that the scene is more healthy today, and I think the players are better off than before during the KeSPA era. Sure, we don’t get massive production with screaming fans and huge SKT and KTF banners. Money goes to the players instead who in turn gives us 1000 hours of streaming content.
Good post.
12 hours was the minimum according to Idra, so they played even more than that just to get the coaches graces.
There were players down to 12 years who did this, and a lot of players got wrist issues.
I miss the days of Kespa, but it wasn’t a healthy environment for the players, and it can’t be compared to physical sports.
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On July 21 2021 21:37 ...onmYwaY wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2021 16:21 ReachTheSky wrote:On July 21 2021 09:23 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Yeha.... and I really don’t like it when people try to romanticize the old KESPA days. Players were locked up by sponsors who payed them next to nothing and the audience got a few games a week during an active season.
For the audience there was perhaps some romanization of the mysterious pro gamer hidden behind the curtain just to pop up and make a magic trick happen before being shoved off.
I would guess that close to all players who experienced that world is very happy where things are now. And we as audience should too as we get so much more content, more than we can chew.
And never try to romanticize the foreign scene of old. It was not better than now, trust me. Go and compare WCG where commentators before tasteless didn’t even know the names of the units.
Perhaps we have been over exposed for a while and need some time to digest but I think Korea will always keep BW going to some extent. Leave it be for 2-3 months and people will queue for the next ASL. Locked up? That is some serious hyperbole. They were bound to contracts, Just like any real sport. It was no different than being signed to a team in the nba where you were bound by contract only play basketball professionally in the official nba leagues, because it was completely understandable. Players at least got paid a wage they could live off of. Kespa legitimized starcraft as a sport. If it weren't for Kespa, the korean starcraft scene would have never grown as big as it had. Kespa even handled contract negotiations. Kespa was even responsible for making starcraft mainstream on tv through mbcgame and ongamenet. If it weren't for kespa, players like boxer, nada etc etc would have never gotten the big salaries that they did. If it weren't for Kespa, sc1 in korea would have been completely wildwest just like the sc2 scene when it came to teams and players getting paid. If we pretend for a second that a governing body like Kespa wasn't a good thing, then the sc1 scene would have stagnated and fallen off just like the sc2 scene did. Why? Because Kespa brought real structure to the scene. They implemented real qualifications for being a progamer. They created an actual process. If it weren't for Kespa, absolutely nobody in the sc1 or sc2 playerbase would have been inspired to become a pro gamer. Kespa was the main reason sc1 was as successful as it was as an esport and I think it's important to recognize that. This is what I mean. I never said that KeSPA was not good for the scene from a marketing or packaging point of view. They did a real good job to romanticize the scene. They made Boxer, Nada etc. as shining examples of what could be if you were on top of the game. Truth is that 99% of the rest struggled for years. They saw money to be made from youth who sacrificed everything to play the game. It is what it is, and kudos to all the players that made it though, but anyone can admit that it was a pretty hard time, that probably broke a lot of people. Yeh... they did get contracts signed. Contrats that would break you, and me and most of the people here within months. Don't even try to compare it to an NBA contract where you can go home to your family every day - instead of sitting in a crammed apartment with 20 others in front of a screen 12 hours a day. There is nothing romantic about that. I think that the scene is more healthy today, and I think the players are better off than before during the KeSPA era. Sure, we don’t get massive production with screaming fans and huge SKT and KTF banners. Money goes to the players instead who in turn gives us 1000 hours of streaming content.
how about we compare KeSPA to gymnastics/figure skating instead of NBA. Gymnastics/figure skating where star athletes are about the same age as progamers in KeSPA days, where severe physical and psychological trauma is the norm, you're expected to push through broken bones, torn ligaments, sexual abuse, malnutrition, etc. How's that for a comparison? You're much more likely to get a decent contract if you're a grown ass man than if you're a child. KeSPA did it about the same way it's done everywhere else.
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On July 22 2021 02:30 juvenal wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2021 21:37 ...onmYwaY wrote:On July 21 2021 16:21 ReachTheSky wrote:On July 21 2021 09:23 ...onmYwaY wrote:
Yeha.... and I really don’t like it when people try to romanticize the old KESPA days. Players were locked up by sponsors who payed them next to nothing and the audience got a few games a week during an active season.
For the audience there was perhaps some romanization of the mysterious pro gamer hidden behind the curtain just to pop up and make a magic trick happen before being shoved off.
I would guess that close to all players who experienced that world is very happy where things are now. And we as audience should too as we get so much more content, more than we can chew.
And never try to romanticize the foreign scene of old. It was not better than now, trust me. Go and compare WCG where commentators before tasteless didn’t even know the names of the units.
Perhaps we have been over exposed for a while and need some time to digest but I think Korea will always keep BW going to some extent. Leave it be for 2-3 months and people will queue for the next ASL. Locked up? That is some serious hyperbole. They were bound to contracts, Just like any real sport. It was no different than being signed to a team in the nba where you were bound by contract only play basketball professionally in the official nba leagues, because it was completely understandable. Players at least got paid a wage they could live off of. Kespa legitimized starcraft as a sport. If it weren't for Kespa, the korean starcraft scene would have never grown as big as it had. Kespa even handled contract negotiations. Kespa was even responsible for making starcraft mainstream on tv through mbcgame and ongamenet. If it weren't for kespa, players like boxer, nada etc etc would have never gotten the big salaries that they did. If it weren't for Kespa, sc1 in korea would have been completely wildwest just like the sc2 scene when it came to teams and players getting paid. If we pretend for a second that a governing body like Kespa wasn't a good thing, then the sc1 scene would have stagnated and fallen off just like the sc2 scene did. Why? Because Kespa brought real structure to the scene. They implemented real qualifications for being a progamer. They created an actual process. If it weren't for Kespa, absolutely nobody in the sc1 or sc2 playerbase would have been inspired to become a pro gamer. Kespa was the main reason sc1 was as successful as it was as an esport and I think it's important to recognize that. This is what I mean. I never said that KeSPA was not good for the scene from a marketing or packaging point of view. They did a real good job to romanticize the scene. They made Boxer, Nada etc. as shining examples of what could be if you were on top of the game. Truth is that 99% of the rest struggled for years. They saw money to be made from youth who sacrificed everything to play the game. It is what it is, and kudos to all the players that made it though, but anyone can admit that it was a pretty hard time, that probably broke a lot of people. Yeh... they did get contracts signed. Contrats that would break you, and me and most of the people here within months. Don't even try to compare it to an NBA contract where you can go home to your family every day - instead of sitting in a crammed apartment with 20 others in front of a screen 12 hours a day. There is nothing romantic about that. I think that the scene is more healthy today, and I think the players are better off than before during the KeSPA era. Sure, we don’t get massive production with screaming fans and huge SKT and KTF banners. Money goes to the players instead who in turn gives us 1000 hours of streaming content. how about we compare KeSPA to gymnastics/figure skating instead of NBA. Gymnastics/figure skating where star athletes are about the same age as progamers in KeSPA days, where severe physical and psychological trauma is the norm, you're expected to push through broken bones, torn ligaments, sexual abuse, malnutrition, etc. How's that for a comparison? You're much more likely to get a decent contract if you're a grown ass man than if you're a child. KeSPA did it about the same way it's done everywhere else.
oh there's child abuse elsewhere guess its all ok then
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Nice job fighting strawmen. I'm not saying it's ok, I'm saying KeSPA wasn't doing anything more shitty (or anywhere near that tbh) than what regular sports do.
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On point. KeSPA did good things for the scene but was no better than gymnastics and figure skating in terms of looking out for the practitioners. How weird would it be to say "the good old days of gymnastics!” knowing how bad the situation has been for so many who paid with their physical and mental health.
Objectively, things should be better than ever. But there comes a time when the old school players won't be around anymore and if we do not see a healthy pool of new players joining in we will sadly see a decline and fall out in the end. This is why most of us feel “bad” when we’re reached with news like this.
Well, well... let’s hope that now lasts until we have a worthy successor, StarCraft 2 was more it’s own game than anything but perhaps StarCraft 3 or Frost Giant Project no.1 could live up to it. Cross your fingers.
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Bisu dont make this next asl your last one play the rest of them out. Even then at least play the rest of the ksls out qualify for them play in them and win them.You can win more starleagues than flash and jaedong.Flash has 1 year and 4 more months to go.Jaedong has 6 more months to go.Larva Effort and Soulkey you can go ahead and retire for sure.Also Bisu play and win the rest of the asls too.
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Sad that broodwar is declining again. I guess 2009 or so still remains the peak despite ASL's efforts.
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Hadn't heard of any of these announcements. Super sad to hear, so many legends of the game quitting in such a short span of time...
And Blizzard still won't fix the ladder...
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Yeah korean pros retire but new korean pros arise and surface.
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Korean BW is finally dying, time to make Foreigner BW shine bb;;
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I'm sad that Effort is retiring, I was really looking forward to him rounding into form after the miliary and was hoping he would win one more ASL to overtake Stork as the 4th best player of all time
I'm also sad about Bisu, since he's still really solid/competitive, even at the top level
At least Best will always be around. That guy is one of the most consistent players ever IMO (possibly even more than Flash), entering EVERY single ASL/tournament in general, not having that many injuries, and placing top 12 in every single one. I can imagine him being 70 years old and finally winning his first tournament after 60 years of playing
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dont worry! They will come back when blizzard releases the 2v2 ladder.
It's just around the corner 
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I wish the South Korean pros never retired. I wish the ones who have retired come out of retirement.
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Bisu if this is your last Asl win it for sure with ease. Retire if you want too but flash is in the mliitary jaedong just got out. Id say come back win more starleagues than flash or jaedong win more than both of them become the greatest south korean protoss of all time. you already have won 4 starleagues. you have the potential you have the skill you have talent. your better than flash and jaedong i know you are i believe in you just believe in yourself you can do it terran is the weakest race zerg is stronger than terran but protoss is stronger than zerg and terran your stronger than jaedong and flash put together.
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EPT
