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I will tell you only what has been revealed.
In the future, ASL map pool will be applied to all map pools.
FS,CB are not excluded. (If FS and CB were excluded, Shakuras Temple and optimizer would have been used)
Blizzard tried to set all 7 map pools except FS and CB as ASL maps for Ladder Season8's map pool.
However, the Korean community opposed this.
(Korean community refers to the opinions of Korean StarCraft fans and Korean gamers)
The reasons for the Korean community's opposition to excluding FS and CB from the map pool are as follows.
1. Except for FS and CB, it is difficult for users and chobos who enjoy StarCraft lightly to play the Ladder game.
2. Because FS and CB are used the most by fans, fans may get tired. However, since they have been used for a long time and are simple maps, they are maps that can show the best performance.
3. If you don't want users to play in FS or CB, you can use the Ban function.
The Korean community objected for these three reasons, and the Korean community voted on FS,CB.
1.New ladder map needs to be changed with a new concept except for FS and CB Maps
2. leave only one of the FS and CB maps in the new ladder map.
3. new ladder season must be played while maintaining the FS and CB maps.
And as for the voting result, item 3 received overwhelming support of 66.1%, and FS and CB were maintained in the map pool.
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very strange outcome. isn't polypoid redundant? and why remove sylphid?
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On October 10 2020 04:47 Alejandrisha wrote:
very strange outcome. isn't polypoid redundant? and why remove sylphid?
Polypoid is used in ASL
sylphid is no longer used by ASL
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Well it looks like 1 million toss army fought valiantly to keep FS
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On October 10 2020 05:31 Shinokuki wrote:
Well it looks like 1 million toss army fought valiantly to keep FS
I think question 1 is the most persuasive.
If users don't want, they can ban FS,CB.
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Why is ladder the venue to make sure FS/CB are available for new players if you can at best guarantee 50% chance of playing on those maps with vetoes? Players laddering are going to be exposed to new maps in the map pool. If they want to only play FS/CB they can still make public games to practice on those maps. Furthermore if players looking for rotating map pools need to expend vetoes on FS/CB they have fewer ones for nonstandard or imbalanced maps. Expecting vetoes to solve the problem is unsustainable.
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Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
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On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
a THOUSAND times this
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Bisutopia19239 Posts
On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
Ive always supported this.
In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out.
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On October 10 2020 05:41 Cruiser0929 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 05:31 Shinokuki wrote:
Well it looks like 1 million toss army fought valiantly to keep FS I think question 1 is the most persuasive. If users don't want, they can ban FS,CB.
The thing is.. there aren't decent enough maps to warrant a veto on even FS. Would I rather play plasma, eclipse over FS? lol..
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On October 10 2020 05:31 Shinokuki wrote:
Well it looks like 1 million toss army fought valiantly to keep FS
why would they do so? FS is not a protoss map
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Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change.
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On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
From the point of view of a spectator and not a player, I much prefer the current system.
It lets me see what has been scouted already and what has not. I could also imagine it being a little confusing when it comes to those edge situations where you are on the edge of scouting a proxy.
If they wanted some sort of compromise though, where the 'unrevealed map' is just a darker Fog of war (but you can still see terrain), I'd be down
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On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
This is such a simple solution, really.. i would love if they have implemented this..
but they won't
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these are some really bullshit reasons to constantly have FS AND CB in the map pool to be honest..
and if we have these standard macro maps in the map pool, why do we need Polypoid too? It's almost the same as FS (but better, imo)
idk, I just think this kind of thing is making the game kinda stale
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You can always veto FS and CB though..
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The most realistic alternative, in my opinion, is to increase the map pool to nine.
And FS,CB are added.
Then you can choose from 7 new map pools and + FS,CB.
And increase the Ban chance to four.
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South Korea2105 Posts
On October 10 2020 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. Ive always supported this. In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out.
and miss out on seeing pros set perfect camera locations for their bases through the fog of war? no thank you
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On October 10 2020 11:58 ShloobeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. From the point of view of a spectator and not a player, I much prefer the current system. It lets me see what has been scouted already and what has not. I could also imagine it being a little confusing when it comes to those edge situations where you are on the edge of scouting a proxy. If they wanted some sort of compromise though, where the 'unrevealed map' is just a darker Fog of war (but you can still see terrain), I'd be down
I believe this is already how it works in WC3/SC2 - different levels of transparency.
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On October 10 2020 18:59 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 11:58 ShloobeR wrote:On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. From the point of view of a spectator and not a player, I much prefer the current system. It lets me see what has been scouted already and what has not. I could also imagine it being a little confusing when it comes to those edge situations where you are on the edge of scouting a proxy. If they wanted some sort of compromise though, where the 'unrevealed map' is just a darker Fog of war (but you can still see terrain), I'd be down I believe this is already how it works in WC3/SC2 - different levels of transparency.
It also works like that in Observer mode in SCR.
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I'm OK with all changes but why Plasma? It just doesn't suit ladder and gonna be nightmare to play.
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Yesterday I let myself be almost convinced that FS and CB could eventually be taken out of the mappool because of the imbalance (at the top level) and because it seems that a majority around here doesnt want play them anymore
Don't want to be on the wrong side of history, you know.
But if the korean community needs them to be in the pool to keep BW alive (which we have to admit: they do for the most part, not us. Not because of the amount of passion maybe, just because of the numbers and the ex-pro-scene over there).
Then: DEUS VULT! FS/CB forever!
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Northern Ireland25322 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:41 Ziggy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. Ive always supported this. In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out. and miss out on seeing pros set perfect camera locations for their bases through the fog of war? no thank you
Truly a thing of beauty. Remember being transfixed by Sea’s preference for a no terrain minimap, just blobs of colour moving around in an ocean of black.
That said of all the quality of life changes that have been implemented or discussed for the less hardcore player this is definitely a top candidate in that it’s purely removing a real barrier without affecting core mechanics or making things easier.
ASL and high-level matches could still stipulate classic fog so the pros still have to play with that setting.
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On October 10 2020 20:31 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 17:41 Ziggy wrote:On October 10 2020 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. Ive always supported this. In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out. and miss out on seeing pros set perfect camera locations for their bases through the fog of war? no thank you Truly a thing of beauty. Remember being transfixed by Sea’s preference for a no terrain minimap, just blobs of colour moving around in an ocean of black. That said of all the quality of life changes that have been implemented or discussed for the less hardcore player this is definitely a top candidate in that it’s purely removing a real barrier without affecting core mechanics or making things easier. ASL and high-level matches could still stipulate classic fog so the pros still have to play with that setting.
aoe style click-to-enable settings too advanced 
i feel like it should be a feature on ladder but we all know it will never happen
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Thanks for the info. Did Blizzard propose its plan publicly? Or did it leak and then the Korean community got outraged at the rumor? Where did the vote take place? It's interesting that Blizzard respected the result of the vote.
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On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote:
Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change.
Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol
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On October 11 2020 04:20 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote:
Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change. Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol
Iccup map-pool cycle was always cool, almost every season 2-3 good switches, playable maps.
Also the possibility to host ladder games on the map you want to play on... 
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On October 10 2020 08:08 BisuDagger wrote:
In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out.
My only thought with unranked ladder is just to make smurf accounts where you don't care about ladder points. Solves that problem. I agree with FS/CB being cycled out, at least one of them. Having one map like that that stays forever is ok but having to use 2/3 vetos to get variety opens up to having to really think about where the last veto goes
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51450 Posts
On October 11 2020 04:20 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote:
Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change. Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol
it was actually just one of the three courage maps rotated every week as part of the motw pool.
iirc motw pool was usually one courage map, two past competitive maps and one foreign map.
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On October 10 2020 17:31 Cruiser0929 wrote:
The most realistic alternative, in my opinion, is to increase the map pool to nine.
And FS,CB are added.
Then you can choose from 7 new map pools and + FS,CB.
And increase the Ban chance to four.
i like this idea a lot tbh, i dont wanna play fs/cb cause theyre already so overplayed, but i can understand some newer players wanna play even only familiar maps maybe.
if you have the some of the map pool as basic familiar maps so the new players can veto the weirder asl stuff and then others can have enough vetos to get out the tournament maps they dont want plus also fs/cb then im pretty happy~
more vetos+more maps is a pretty solid idea
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On October 11 2020 08:24 GTR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2020 04:20 arb wrote:On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote:
Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change. Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol it was actually just one of the three courage maps rotated every week as part of the motw pool. iirc motw pool was usually one courage map, two past competitive maps and one foreign map.
I thought there was a 2v2 map too for the 5th one but i wasnt 100% sure.
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On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote:
Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.)
Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool.
I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons.
As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change.
@Latis, What is your thoughts on Optimizer map being used in league and ladder, even after proven to be terran favored?
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On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps.
Yes!! This should be implemented 100%
Regarding FS/CB I'm ok with this, understand that some people who might not have the time to play that much are just comfortable with playing on FS/CB. Players who are sick of it can just veto them. Not the perfect solution but it makes the most sense.
Another thing that might be possible is to gradually rotate FS/CB with Sylphid/Polypoid.
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MOTW
transparent FOW
2v2 ladder.
fix lag.
bye
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just addin that i dont like the transparent fow idea that always flows around
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On October 14 2020 21:46 [AS]Rattus wrote:
just addin that i dont like the transparent fow idea that always flows around
Why? Also this could be a setting. The same way you can currently switch to the all-black variant of the minimap or use the default color scheme.
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had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun.
im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way.
oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess.
+ Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war
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On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote:had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war
Ya, mostly I was on the camp to have it be transparent, but knowing the map is a huge thing. I lose a ton because I forgot an expansion existed I should've known about but forgot, and that person deserves that win.
Likewise shepherding a worker to build an expansion and you clicked wrong is your fault.
tbh, it is a skill that shows knowledge and experience to be able to do the right things on the maps without seeing everything.
On the subject of maps:
Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. They are a bit more complicated than most normal maps. Maybe implement standards bans for newer players? Or limited map pool below a certain MMR may help? New players don't always understand map bans, there's not a toast notif to say "remember to ban maps!" and are probably way less likely to go do custom games.
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To solution is to have a separate novice ladder for very low ranked players with transparent map layout, very safe macro maps etc.. no above B rank players allowed - based on historical data.
Then have the real ladder with S Rank players (and A ones maybe) that have 4 veto maps in a 9-map pool - optional ofc - and keep a couple of old favorites in there for the rest of the people that don't have the extra bans.
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On October 15 2020 04:29 SchAmToo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote:had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players.
Plasma Sure, but Ringing Bloom has a pretty simple concept aside from an indoor expansion and an onion at your choke. I guess it is all based on different opinions though.
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On October 15 2020 05:23 TelecoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 04:29 SchAmToo wrote:On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote:had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. Plasma Sure, but Ringing Bloom has a pretty simple concept aside from an indoor expansion and an onion at your choke. I guess it is all based on different opinions though.
Indoor expansion is fine, but the choke is super odd. I guess it's not that different from gladiator, but then again Ringing BLoom you can hide tech/sunkens under the cocoons and cause problems. may not be understandable to newer players
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On October 15 2020 05:23 TelecoM wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 04:29 SchAmToo wrote:On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote:had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. Plasma Sure, but Ringing Bloom has a pretty simple concept aside from an indoor expansion and an onion at your choke. I guess it is all based on different opinions though.
Plasma insanity doesn't end with being a semi island, its crazy. Agreed with ringing bloom, but having an indoor expo shouldn't be considered uncomfortable or weird for a new player, imo. I'm guessing understanding how to control your ramp as zerg is more complex, but other than that yeah I agree bloom is fine.
*Sniped by Schamtoo ;d
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On October 10 2020 11:58 ShloobeR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. From the point of view of a spectator and not a player, I much prefer the current system. It lets me see what has been scouted already and what has not. I could also imagine it being a little confusing when it comes to those edge situations where you are on the edge of scouting a proxy. If they wanted some sort of compromise though, where the 'unrevealed map' is just a darker Fog of war (but you can still see terrain), I'd be down
I’m sure they can make it the same as now just for observer mode.
I would LOVE a fog of war everywhere as a permanent feature
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On October 15 2020 13:41 hiro protagonist wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 11:58 ShloobeR wrote:On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote:
Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. From the point of view of a spectator and not a player, I much prefer the current system. It lets me see what has been scouted already and what has not. I could also imagine it being a little confusing when it comes to those edge situations where you are on the edge of scouting a proxy. If they wanted some sort of compromise though, where the 'unrevealed map' is just a darker Fog of war (but you can still see terrain), I'd be down I’m sure they can make it the same as now just for observer mode. I would LOVE a fog of war everywhere as a permanent feature
Problem with observer mode is it only tells you exactly the location on the map that has or has not been scouted, not actually what buildings have been seen.
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On October 10 2020 08:25 ajmbek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2020 05:31 Shinokuki wrote:
Well it looks like 1 million toss army fought valiantly to keep FS why would they do so? FS is not a protoss map
dude what?
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On October 15 2020 05:40 SchAmToo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2020 05:23 TelecoM wrote:On October 15 2020 04:29 SchAmToo wrote:On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote:had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler +maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. Plasma Sure, but Ringing Bloom has a pretty simple concept aside from an indoor expansion and an onion at your choke. I guess it is all based on different opinions though. Indoor expansion is fine, but the choke is super odd. I guess it's not that different from gladiator, but then again Ringing BLoom you can hide tech/sunkens under the cocoons and cause problems. may not be understandable to newer players
Ok I just experienced this as a new player, can confirm I was totally surprised when the cocoons on Ringing Bloom started destroying my FFE with sunken attacks!
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EPT
