EPTLet me tell you the story behind the Ladder Season - Page 2
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outscar
2832 Posts
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Highgamer
1474 Posts
Don't want to be on the wrong side of history, you know. But if the korean community needs them to be in the pool to keep BW alive (which we have to admit: they do for the most part, not us. Not because of the amount of passion maybe, just because of the numbers and the ex-pro-scene over there). Then: DEUS VULT! FS/CB forever! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:41 Ziggy wrote: and miss out on seeing pros set perfect camera locations for their bases through the fog of war? no thank you Truly a thing of beauty. Remember being transfixed by Sea’s preference for a no terrain minimap, just blobs of colour moving around in an ocean of black. That said of all the quality of life changes that have been implemented or discussed for the less hardcore player this is definitely a top candidate in that it’s purely removing a real barrier without affecting core mechanics or making things easier. ASL and high-level matches could still stipulate classic fog so the pros still have to play with that setting. | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6566 Posts
On October 10 2020 20:31 WombaT wrote: Truly a thing of beauty. Remember being transfixed by Sea’s preference for a no terrain minimap, just blobs of colour moving around in an ocean of black. That said of all the quality of life changes that have been implemented or discussed for the less hardcore player this is definitely a top candidate in that it’s purely removing a real barrier without affecting core mechanics or making things easier. ASL and high-level matches could still stipulate classic fog so the pros still have to play with that setting. aoe style click-to-enable settings too advanced  i feel like it should be a feature on ladder but we all know it will never happen | ||
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mmhmm
22 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote: Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.) Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool. I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons. As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change. Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol | ||
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Highgamer
1474 Posts
On October 11 2020 04:20 arb wrote: Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol Iccup map-pool cycle was always cool, almost every season 2-3 good switches, playable maps. Also the possibility to host ladder games on the map you want to play on...  | ||
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unit
United States2621 Posts
On October 10 2020 08:08 BisuDagger wrote: In regards to the maps, there should be unranked ladder which always features FS and CB. Ranked ladder should leave them out. My only thought with unranked ladder is just to make smurf accounts where you don't care about ladder points. Solves that problem. I agree with FS/CB being cycled out, at least one of them. Having one map like that that stays forever is ok but having to use 2/3 vetos to get variety opens up to having to really think about where the last veto goes | ||
GTR
51703 Posts
On October 11 2020 04:20 arb wrote: Iccup also always kept at least 1 proleague map in the map pool for Koreans as well, or maybe it was 2, then 3 random maps lol it was actually just one of the three courage maps rotated every week as part of the motw pool. iirc motw pool was usually one courage map, two past competitive maps and one foreign map. | ||
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CadenZie
Korea (South)545 Posts
On October 10 2020 17:31 Cruiser0929 wrote: The most realistic alternative, in my opinion, is to increase the map pool to nine. And FS,CB are added. Then you can choose from 7 new map pools and + FS,CB. And increase the Ban chance to four. i like this idea a lot tbh, i dont wanna play fs/cb cause theyre already so overplayed, but i can understand some newer players wanna play even only familiar maps maybe. if you have the some of the map pool as basic familiar maps so the new players can veto the weirder asl stuff and then others can have enough vetos to get out the tournament maps they dont want plus also fs/cb then im pretty happy~ more vetos+more maps is a pretty solid idea | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On October 11 2020 08:24 GTR wrote: it was actually just one of the three courage maps rotated every week as part of the motw pool. iirc motw pool was usually one courage map, two past competitive maps and one foreign map. I thought there was a 2v2 map too for the 5th one but i wasnt 100% sure. | ||
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MineraIs
United States846 Posts
On October 10 2020 11:56 LatiAs wrote: Unlike iCCup, the ladder system of Fish Server and Brain Server(which were biggest private servers in Korea) was very simple. Just using only FS, until 2015 that CB also started to be used. (Still, most of them used FS.) Current Blizzard's ladder system is unfamiliar to Korea. That private servers' managers and users didn't try to using another maps instead of FS as a ladder map. They were used to using only one map, and didn't seek any change or development. That's why you can see that at least one of the FS and CB is not missing from the early ASLs map pool. I've been trying for a long time to get them out of the map pool, and I've finally achieved results, but FS is still the most widely used in Korea even though it has not been used in ASL for several seasons. As a map maker, I'm disappointed by this conservative inclination of the Korean community. But as a Korean, I understand why they made such a decision. They are under a too long period of inertia to accept change. @Latis, What is your thoughts on Optimizer map being used in league and ladder, even after proven to be terran favored? | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4189 Posts
On October 10 2020 07:13 maybenexttime wrote: Wouldn't a better solution be to make the fog of war "transparent" like in WC3 or SC2? It's probably the most important reason why newbies are reluctant to try new maps. Yes!! This should be implemented 100% Regarding FS/CB I'm ok with this, understand that some people who might not have the time to play that much are just comfortable with playing on FS/CB. Players who are sick of it can just veto them. Not the perfect solution but it makes the most sense. Another thing that might be possible is to gradually rotate FS/CB with Sylphid/Polypoid. | ||
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XenOsky
Chile2358 Posts
transparent FOW 2v2 ladder. fix lag. bye | ||
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[AS]Rattus
432 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5876 Posts
On October 14 2020 21:46 [AS]Rattus wrote: just addin that i dont like the transparent fow idea that always flows around Why? Also this could be a setting. The same way you can currently switch to the all-black variant of the minimap or use the default color scheme. | ||
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[AS]Rattus
432 Posts
im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler + maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war | ||
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SchAmToo
United States1141 Posts
On October 15 2020 04:06 [AS]Rattus wrote: had alot of situations were either me or my enemy missclicked a scouting unit so an expansion wasn't harrased or even scouted. i like that part, adds even more to the unreachable skillceiling imo without rly taking away any fun. im not saying i despise everyone who thinks otherwise or that i would boycott the game if they change it or smth ridiculous like that but the opinion in this thread seemed to be pretty one sided so i just wanted to add that not everybody thinks that way. oh and i think that not seeing all expansions all the time on the minimap changes the way you are scouting for expansions in general but thats just a guess. + Show Spoiler + maybe snow would have scouted flashs hidden expansion with transparent fog of war Ya, mostly I was on the camp to have it be transparent, but knowing the map is a huge thing. I lose a ton because I forgot an expansion existed I should've known about but forgot, and that person deserves that win. Likewise shepherding a worker to build an expansion and you clicked wrong is your fault. tbh, it is a skill that shows knowledge and experience to be able to do the right things on the maps without seeing everything. On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. They are a bit more complicated than most normal maps. Maybe implement standards bans for newer players? Or limited map pool below a certain MMR may help? New players don't always understand map bans, there's not a toast notif to say "remember to ban maps!" and are probably way less likely to go do custom games. | ||
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oxKnu
1267 Posts
Then have the real ladder with S Rank players (and A ones maybe) that have 4 veto maps in a 9-map pool - optional ofc - and keep a couple of old favorites in there for the rest of the people that don't have the extra bans. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10883 Posts
On October 15 2020 04:29 SchAmToo wrote: On the subject of maps: Plasma and Ringing Bloom are especially punishing for new players. Plasma Sure, but Ringing Bloom has a pretty simple concept aside from an indoor expansion and an onion at your choke. I guess it is all based on different opinions though. | ||
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