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Tasteless Vs CatZ - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
blabber
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States4448 Posts
June 04 2020 14:02 GMT
#21
That would explain why I often feel like I am the only person outside of Korea that is playing ladder
blabberrrrr
QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
June 04 2020 14:13 GMT
#22
Sugo <3
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2042 Posts
June 04 2020 14:33 GMT
#23
On June 04 2020 20:59 SuGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.


Still surprised people don't know this. Yes, it's global but it's based on latency pairing.

-A majority of Europe don't pair to Koreans due to the natural latency lacking the ability to achieve TR16. Ever notice people like Bonyth rarely pair KR? This isn't a call out, just a fact, for a popular streamer, so that people can visualize it. EU are typically playing against each other.
...[Please note I am using words like 'majority,' 'rarely,' and 'typically' -- before some random EU comes in here saying "WELL I PAIR KR SOMETIMES!!"]. Of course there are outliers and some in EU who probably have good latency to KR.

-Americans pair to Koreans often because we have the ability to get TR16 more readily. Typically in US, you don't need to wait long between games. I queue within 1minute or less always.

-If you live in Korea, well, you get the idea...

It's a global ladder, sure, but with the parameter of "IF" you can achieve certain latency to other regions, including Korea. This makes NA ladder harder than EU ladder, and makes KR ladder harder than both and gives MMR ranges a bit of disparity from region to region. NA MMR is different than EU MMR and so on. NA ladder is second hardest due to these things. It's hard to say "+150 MMR harder" or something like this when comparing regions, but it is undoubtedly harder. Take it for what you want.

Did you really think that some Europeans or LATAM players are just magically getting 2200+ so easily, with 70%+ win rates? Not an attack on anyone, but just think about it for a second...

Do I think someone like Bonyth or Eonzerg can still get 2400+ regardless of who they play on ladder? Yes. But not everyone is Bonyth or Eonzerg. And they probably won't have 80% win ratios playing Koreans non-stop, and that alone is a big difference even for top players like this.

From my own personal perspective, it is day and night playing against 2200-2300 foreigner vs. 2200-2300 Korean. Especially the Terrans. I'd say the gap is actually quite substantial, from my own experiences.


The funny part is that being European you get matched vs foreginers up to like 2200, and afterwards there are so few players that you are getting matched vs koreans. So from 2200 onwards a real European challenge begins.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
June 04 2020 15:26 GMT
#24
HYPED FOR THIS
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10808 Posts
June 04 2020 17:16 GMT
#25
On June 04 2020 20:17 MuNi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 17:02 Dante08 wrote:
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.


A 1900 rating on KR server is MUCH better than a 1900 rating on other servers as you will mostly get matched with Koreans who are generally on a higher level.


Hm. I would think (living on the west coast myself) that it isn't like that for all servers. The vast majority of people I play are Koreans.

I have the same experience in southern california / West coast, I play mainly all Koreans no matter what time of day / MMR / etc, that makes sense SuGo ty.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
SPcrusader
Profile Joined September 2011
Norway99 Posts
June 04 2020 17:42 GMT
#26
[image loading]
This duel will be one for the history books!
https://www.twitch.tv/spcrusader
tankgirl
Profile Blog Joined May 2016
Canada481 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-04 18:35:46
June 04 2020 18:35 GMT
#27
I'm betting on the Protoss.

God.. Tasteless is soooo hot.

https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/627255-progamer-settings
TL+ Member
MuNi
Profile Joined July 2009
United States72 Posts
June 04 2020 18:56 GMT
#28
On June 04 2020 20:59 SuGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.


Still surprised people don't know this. Yes, it's global but it's based on latency pairing.

-A majority of Europe don't pair to Koreans due to the natural latency lacking the ability to achieve TR16. Ever notice people like Bonyth rarely pair KR? This isn't a call out, just a fact, for a popular streamer, so that people can visualize it. EU are typically playing against each other.
...[Please note I am using words like 'majority,' 'rarely,' and 'typically' -- before some random EU comes in here saying "WELL I PAIR KR SOMETIMES!!"]. Of course there are outliers and some in EU who probably have good latency to KR.

-Americans pair to Koreans often because we have the ability to get TR16 more readily. Typically in US, you don't need to wait long between games. I queue within 1minute or less always.

-If you live in Korea, well, you get the idea...

It's a global ladder, sure, but with the parameter of "IF" you can achieve certain latency to other regions, including Korea. This makes NA ladder harder than EU ladder, and makes KR ladder harder than both and gives MMR ranges a bit of disparity from region to region. NA MMR is different than EU MMR and so on. NA ladder is second hardest due to these things. It's hard to say "+150 MMR harder" or something like this when comparing regions, but it is undoubtedly harder. Take it for what you want.

Did you really think that some Europeans or LATAM players are just magically getting 2200+ so easily, with 70%+ win rates? Not an attack on anyone, but just think about it for a second...

Do I think someone like Bonyth or Eonzerg can still get 2400+ regardless of who they play on ladder? Yes. But not everyone is Bonyth or Eonzerg. And they probably won't have 80% win ratios playing Koreans non-stop, and that alone is a big difference even for top players like this.

From my own personal perspective, it is day and night playing against 2200-2300 foreigner vs. 2200-2300 Korean. Especially the Terrans. I'd say the gap is actually quite substantial, from my own experiences.



Especially the terrans is a good point and I couldn't agree more. You can always tell just by the way they use and micro vultures and how crisp their timings are.
MANTOSS
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-04 19:04:06
June 04 2020 19:03 GMT
#29
On June 04 2020 20:59 SuGo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.

It's a global ladder, sure, but with the parameter of "IF" you can achieve certain latency to other regions, including Korea. This makes NA ladder harder than EU ladder, and makes KR ladder harder than both and gives MMR ranges a bit of disparity from region to region. NA MMR is different than EU MMR and so on. NA ladder is second hardest due to these things. It's hard to say "+150 MMR harder" or something like this when comparing regions, but it is undoubtedly harder. Take it for what you want.

Mostly accurate but you are adding a bit to the misconception here. Saying NA or EU ladder is not accurate, for example I am in SA but rarely get matched with many other SA players so there are separate regions even in the same continent and country. I get matched with a good amount of koreans, and never with europeans. On the other hand there is also the timezone issue, where if you play at a certain time always, you will be part of a MMR range that is different than if you played at a different time.

All in all the MMR regions are unpredictable and vary wildly which is why sometimes you'll watch a strong player stream and they might play a terrible 2300 player and sometimes a good 1900 player.

Blizzard is not helping this entire issue by putting regions in the launcher, I often run into koreans that start whining that I am "on the korean server" and that I should just leave their server, which is of course impossible for me to do.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10808 Posts
June 04 2020 19:07 GMT
#30
Back on topic, I wonder what maps will be played, I saw CatZ post on Twitter about this as I said previously, CatZ can adapt pretty well I think from studying the meta / practicing, it may be a better series than people are anticipating.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
.gypsy
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada689 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-04 19:31:55
June 04 2020 19:31 GMT
#31
4 inches is bigger in NA than in EU, but in SA man is it small hahahahahahahahahaha
https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
June 04 2020 20:09 GMT
#32
catz could be good but 80% of the time i watched his stream he had a hatchery building in the opponents base

i think tasteless is a huge favorite but catz could learn to cheese, it's zvp after all and you can drop games to anyone that can execute a proper runby or hydra rush lmao
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
SuGo
Profile Joined March 2013
United States681 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-04 20:54:42
June 04 2020 20:53 GMT
#33
On June 05 2020 04:03 LG)Sabbath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 20:59 SuGo wrote:
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.

It's a global ladder, sure, but with the parameter of "IF" you can achieve certain latency to other regions, including Korea. This makes NA ladder harder than EU ladder, and makes KR ladder harder than both and gives MMR ranges a bit of disparity from region to region. NA MMR is different than EU MMR and so on. NA ladder is second hardest due to these things. It's hard to say "+150 MMR harder" or something like this when comparing regions, but it is undoubtedly harder. Take it for what you want.

Mostly accurate but you are adding a bit to the misconception here. Saying NA or EU ladder is not accurate, for example I am in SA but rarely get matched with many other SA players so there are separate regions even in the same continent and country. I get matched with a good amount of koreans, and never with europeans. On the other hand there is also the timezone issue, where if you play at a certain time always, you will be part of a MMR range that is different than if you played at a different time.

All in all the MMR regions are unpredictable and vary wildly which is why sometimes you'll watch a strong player stream and they might play a terrible 2300 player and sometimes a good 1900 player.

Blizzard is not helping this entire issue by putting regions in the launcher, I often run into koreans that start whining that I am "on the korean server" and that I should just leave their server, which is of course impossible for me to do.


I defer you specifically to this point I put in my original post, and now apply it to yourself and living in SA.

"I am using words like 'majority,' 'rarely,' and 'typically' -- before some random EU comes in here saying "WELL I PAIR KR SOMETIMES!!"]. Of course there are outliers and some in EU who probably have good latency to KR."

Instead of the random EU that came in saying that, you were the random SA. Damn, I didn't account for that.

Anyways, just get back on topic and let the thread be. Bye
srj
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada134 Posts
June 04 2020 23:21 GMT
#34
I never heard this story before, this is going to be awesome
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9110 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-04 23:55:56
June 04 2020 23:54 GMT
#35
I seem to recall knowing CatZ as a pretty good sc2 player (and more recently he was streaming dota2 a bit). Was he into bw before that?
UncleClimax
Profile Joined January 2020
18 Posts
June 05 2020 00:08 GMT
#36
I WANT SEE BLOOD
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51666 Posts
June 05 2020 00:16 GMT
#37
On June 05 2020 08:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
I seem to recall knowing CatZ as a pretty good sc2 player (and more recently he was streaming dota2 a bit). Was he into bw before that?


I primarily know him for playing 2's with Drewbie on iccup.
Commentator
chillzzz
Profile Joined August 2018
30 Posts
June 05 2020 01:40 GMT
#38
On June 04 2020 16:51 kogeT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2020 16:19 GGzerG wrote:
On June 04 2020 15:57 kogeT wrote:
Lol Tasteless will stomp him. From what I have seen CatZ is very very begginer (1500 lvl?) while Tasteless is around 1900 on KR server..?

What does the Server have to do with anything though? Aren't we still on Global ladder?

EDIT : This will be really fun, I saw CatZ post about it on Twitter, whoever wins it will still be fun because of the Nostalgia factor of these two playing again, back in their hay day they were both in X17.


You are matched based on latency. That is why Europeans rearly get matched vs Koreans, but if you live in Korea you play exclusively vs Koreans (so overall difficulty lvl for your MMR will be a bit higher)

Tasteless will match all Koreans because he lives in Korea, but with global matchmaking saying KR server is confusing as the only "KR server" is the KR gateway.
StaticNine
Profile Blog Joined March 2017
48 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-06-05 02:12:27
June 05 2020 02:11 GMT
#39
On June 05 2020 08:54 Jonoman92 wrote:
I seem to recall knowing CatZ as a pretty good sc2 player (and more recently he was streaming dota2 a bit). Was he into bw before that?


Yes, I was in a BW clan with Catz many years ago and he played Zerg. It's extremely hard for me to remember, evaluate, and compare the skill that long ago to skill today but I remember that he definitely wasn't a newb...whatever that's worth (probably not much since skill is so relative). I remember him being decent enough that depending on how much he prepares I wouldn't count him out against Tasteless.
Chosi
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Germany1309 Posts
June 05 2020 21:04 GMT
#40
Go Tasteless!

[image loading]
Someday, you’re going to fuck up so magnificently, so ambitiously, so overwhelmingly that the sky will light up and the moons will spin and the gods themselves will shit comets with glee. And I just hope I’m still around to see it.
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