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Pros talk about why Zero can't win titles

Forum Index > BW General
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jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1490 Posts
March 31 2020 17:52 GMT
#1


this was back in January 2020
JoinTheRain
Profile Blog Joined September 2018
Bulgaria409 Posts
March 31 2020 18:51 GMT
#2
This video was insightful and at the same time entertaining. jinjin5000, you are a highly valued treasure and a bulwark of the broodwar community. Much appreciated, thank you!
The subject-matter of the art of living is each person's own life.
blackmanpl
Profile Blog Joined January 2017
68 Posts
March 31 2020 19:01 GMT
#3
Snow saying that Zero and Action are bad, and giving them advice to use defilers in zvp :D

That's like some of foreign bw commentators' golden insights.
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12027 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-31 19:36:55
March 31 2020 19:34 GMT
#4
On April 01 2020 04:01 blackmanpl wrote:
Snow saying that Zero and Action are bad, and giving them advice to use defilers in zvp :D

That's like some of foreign bw commentators' golden insights.


I mean look at most ZvPs from 2010-2011, late game defilers were normal - seems weird they're not anymore!
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
QOGQOG
Profile Joined July 2019
834 Posts
March 31 2020 20:22 GMT
#5
On April 01 2020 04:01 blackmanpl wrote:
Snow saying that Zero and Action are bad, and giving them advice to use defilers in zvp :D

That's like some of foreign bw commentators' golden insights.

...what? Snow said nothing of the sort. Horang2 talked a little bit about defilers, and Snow said Zero should be less predictable (everyone agreed on this, actually).
TiQ.SinGi
Profile Joined December 2004
Norway385 Posts
March 31 2020 21:03 GMT
#6
So nice that these translation videos keep coming! Thanks again jinjin5000
“Approved attributes and their relation to face make every man his own jailer; this is a fundamental social constraint even though each man may like his cell.” -Goffman
KameZerg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Sweden1769 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-31 21:32:46
March 31 2020 21:31 GMT
#7
Prepared competitive games have an extra dimension that normal ladder games dont usually have. Its much about analyzing your opponent, coming up with a suitable play and theres also alot of mindgames involved. Some players are better than other players at that so thats an extra factor to take into consideration.
asdasdasdasdasd123123123
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8167 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-01 01:10:01
April 01 2020 01:08 GMT
#8
On April 01 2020 04:34 Qikz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2020 04:01 blackmanpl wrote:
Snow saying that Zero and Action are bad, and giving them advice to use defilers in zvp :D

That's like some of foreign bw commentators' golden insights.


I mean look at most ZvPs from 2010-2011, late game defilers were normal - seems weird they're not anymore!


Also reminds me of how until around 2010/2011 it was totally normal for zergs to use ultras in late-game ZvP. Then some point around then they all realized that hydra/lurker/ling was just way more cost-efficient I guess?

But yeah definitely feels like late-game zvp doesn't happen often enough.

Thanks for the sub jinjin!
Free Palestine
InDi
Profile Joined April 2010
Spain90 Posts
April 01 2020 02:12 GMT
#9
The problem with Z's is they can win way too easily just making hydras ZvP, so funny
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1148 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-01 04:58:58
April 01 2020 04:58 GMT
#10
like shine's face expressions throughtout the entire vid

also i remembered around jan (most probably after this vid?) there was a castermuse league game where shine beat snow lategame using ling-defiler-guardian composition without making a hydra. great response by shine in that case :D
Akio
Profile Blog Joined January 2019
Finland1838 Posts
April 01 2020 06:51 GMT
#11
Thanks again! The way they differentiated some of the Zs and their styles by switching around the macro - all-in components was really interesting, never really thought it that way.
Mine gas, build tanks.
Ollin
Profile Joined December 2017
Poland77 Posts
April 01 2020 08:10 GMT
#12
Am I old school then if i'm still using defilers? What is best than using plague on those protoss scums?
iRk-Ollin
VioleTAK
Profile Joined July 2006
4340 Posts
April 01 2020 13:36 GMT
#13
Another great one! Thanks jinjin!
Every fan of Starcraft is a fan of Lim Yo Hwan by association
Alpha-NP-
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1242 Posts
April 01 2020 15:30 GMT
#14
On April 01 2020 13:58 ggsimida wrote:
like shine's face expressions throughtout the entire vid

also i remembered around jan (most probably after this vid?) there was a castermuse league game where shine beat snow lategame using ling-defiler-guardian composition without making a hydra. great response by shine in that case :D

Found
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2356 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-01 16:04:36
April 01 2020 16:03 GMT
#15
0:50 Finally the truth is said by a progamer… SH SH SH SH so easy there is absolutly zero skill involved in 6h mass hidra or 973 or 9734.
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
AleXoundOS
Profile Joined January 2011
Georgia458 Posts
April 01 2020 21:11 GMT
#16
Thank you. Such talks are very interesting.
https://bwapi.github.io - An API for interacting with Starcraft: Broodwar (1.16.1)
Highgamer
Profile Joined October 2015
1451 Posts
April 01 2020 22:03 GMT
#17
Poor Miso
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10700 Posts
April 01 2020 22:37 GMT
#18
I'm confused, it is showing everything for me in Korean, where is this Translated?
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
FakeFin
Profile Joined December 2018
Germany392 Posts
April 01 2020 22:55 GMT
#19
On April 02 2020 07:37 GGzerG wrote:
I'm confused, it is showing everything for me in Korean, where is this Translated?

There are english subtitles
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10035 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-02 08:14:38
April 02 2020 01:36 GMT
#20
When are any of these guys gonna win a title?

Hurts because Snow's my fav player..
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 02 2020 02:05 GMT
#21
Defilers in late-game ZvP are still totally standard unless I’m watching all the wrong games.
May the BeSt man win.
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2216 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-02 02:17:30
April 02 2020 02:16 GMT
#22
It seems like nowadays PvZs at the pro level are more likely to end before defilers than in past years. Feels like I haven't seen too many long split-map games with reaver-archon vs defiler-crackling recently. Can anyone shed some insight into this?
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
April 02 2020 06:52 GMT
#23
And here I thought that if I would ever see Snow and Shine talk about why Zero hasn't won a tournament yet, they'd just empathize and bond with him over getting swept in the finals by Flash.

Thanks for the translation though, I love hearing their insights!
Cute
heavy-smoker
Profile Joined March 2018
Chile11 Posts
April 15 2020 19:46 GMT
#24
As always thank you so much for these translations.
ne4aJIb
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Russian Federation3209 Posts
April 15 2020 20:07 GMT
#25
Could you please translate Flash's comments on the last game between Light and Soma if there is one?
Bisu,Best,Stork,Jangbi and Flash, Fantasy, Leta, Light and Jaedong, Hydra, Zero, Soulkey assemble in ACE now!
eekmice
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States373 Posts
April 16 2020 01:18 GMT
#26
Defilers are def used late game zvp mainly for plague. When commentating on stream, pro players often joke about zerg being OP when a good plague hits saying it did 2000 damage. Dark swarm is also used but it's more for destroying buildings and canons.
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
April 18 2020 20:31 GMT
#27
I love how snow talks about good tosses in the beginning but doesn't mention Rain (unless he was talking about Tosses in the current ASL season)
Faker is the GOAT!
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11077 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-04-18 20:54:56
April 18 2020 20:54 GMT
#28
I LOVE shine's face.

Then I love when he talks about mindgames. He would know.

Ah this is fun. Cmon Snow do better so you can keep being sassy.


Thankyou for the TL!
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
Immaterial
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada510 Posts
May 05 2020 15:04 GMT
#29
Thank you for all these translation videos you do man. You are a genuine treasure for the foreign community, your work is deeply appreciated.
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19328 Posts
May 05 2020 15:16 GMT
#30
On April 19 2020 05:54 Sabu113 wrote:
I LOVE shine's face.

Then I love when he talks about mindgames. He would know.

Ah this is fun. Cmon Snow do better so you can keep being sassy.


Thankyou for the TL!

I think Snow is just fine. See week 2 (Wiki)KCM Challenge/2020 Season 2
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
iamwiki1
Profile Joined November 2020
1 Post
November 16 2020 06:38 GMT
#31
Now he has two.
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
November 16 2020 19:24 GMT
#32
ZerO is best zerg in the world right now. All hail Queen!
sunbeams are never made like me...
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8657 Posts
November 16 2020 23:05 GMT
#33
On November 16 2020 15:38 iamwiki1 wrote:
Now he has two.


I forgot this topic existed but yeah, this didn't age well.
Leonix
Profile Joined June 2019
161 Posts
November 17 2020 14:00 GMT
#34
On April 01 2020 04:01 blackmanpl wrote:
Snow saying that Zero and Action are bad, and giving them advice to use defilers in zvp :D

That's like some of foreign bw commentators' golden insights.



YOu realize that ACtion is literally "THE GUY" that goes for lategame defiller game most of the time... His spiritual broodwar unit is the Defiller... LOL
SlayerS_BunkiE
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada1715 Posts
November 17 2020 19:39 GMT
#35
On November 17 2020 08:05 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2020 15:38 iamwiki1 wrote:
Now he has two.


I forgot this topic existed but yeah, this didn't age well.

someone should bump the flash vs mind thread
On November 18 2007 03:46 Superiorwolf wrote:
I don't flash will ever become very good, he has potential but I just don't feel like he's the 'bonjwa' quality
iloveby.SlayerS_BunkiE[Shield]
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66358 Posts
November 18 2020 15:50 GMT
#36
On November 18 2020 04:39 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 17 2020 08:05 Miragee wrote:
On November 16 2020 15:38 iamwiki1 wrote:
Now he has two.


I forgot this topic existed but yeah, this didn't age well.

someone should bump the flash vs mind thread
Show nested quote +
On November 18 2007 03:46 Superiorwolf wrote:
I don't flash will ever become very good, he has potential but I just don't feel like he's the 'bonjwa' quality

well flash wasnt bonjwa quality

he was god quality
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