another issue is that theres not any room in most hotkey setups to add a single queen in. also in most situations you target the cc last because terrans usually fighting your stuff to defend a base. You usually only target a cc after the fight is already won in that base, at which point you will kill the cc anyway. killing units takes priority over a high health structures to kill.

FlaShFTW

United States10236 Posts

January 05 2024 16:27 GMT

#42

On January 05 2024 18:51 RJBTVYOUTUBE wrote:
another issue is that theres not any room in most hotkey setups to add a single queen in. also in most situations you target the cc last because terrans usually fighting your stuff to defend a base. You usually only target a cc after the fight is already won in that base, at which point you will kill the cc anyway. killing units takes priority over a high health structures to kill.

well idk if you'd really need to hotkey it necessarily, just fly it near the expansion you anticipate attacking to infest. I agree with you though that infesting seems more like a win-more rather than a legitimate strategy. As you say, the CC is gonna likely die anyways if you manage to get an infest off, is it worth the supply and money to build the queen? Though I think parasite is an underused spell and the queen can go around parasiting vessels, so it can generate use in other ways.

Liquid`Drone

Norway28712 Posts

January 05 2024 17:38 GMT

#43

Queens are super useful in many scenarios, but they do need a dedicated hotkey. This is honestly one of the best reasons not to build them and one of the reasons why people have a hard time incorporating them. If you only factor in the resource cost then a queen will always be worth it in virtually every hive game, but without a dedicated hotkey itll require too much attention to have them well positioned and it's fair to argue that a hatchery or scourge or mutas might be more useful.

mtcn77

Turkey628 Posts

January 05 2024 18:37 GMT

#44

I think current TvZ meta involves M&M and Queens are not hard counters to M&M like Defilers and Ultralisks, that is why. Do we have to get those? Defiler tech tree is 293 seconds, Ultralisks are 280, Queens are just 243... From Lair up and Queen's Nest in place, the first Queen is hatched 31 seconds before Hive, 100 seconds before the first Defiler, 132 seconds before Consume. That is 159 mana on the first Queens by the time Defiler Consume is ready. If we weren't going after Defilers, Hive plus Defiler Mound plus Defiler and Consume, that would be 500 gas saved. We could have 5 Queens by then... You could cast Ensnare just 11 seconds after Ensnare is done which by the way is 1 second before Hive.
Which would be stronger - non stop Mutalisk harrass mid game, or current muta switch to Defilers late game? All I'm asking is take those CC's down...

FlaShFTW

United States10236 Posts

January 05 2024 19:28 GMT

#45

Ensare means marines can still shoot and kill things though. Defilers literally puts up a no-Terran zone for the duration of the swarm. Also defilers can get energy instantly, while Terran could bait ensnare then go back in when Queens are low on energy.

Zero has done ensnare strategies in Kespa (Andromeda game iirc) where he plays more of a battler zerg style and contests Terran's mid game map control with queens and mass crackling.

mtcn77

Turkey628 Posts

January 05 2024 20:43 GMT

#46

On January 06 2024 04:28 FlaShFTW wrote:
Ensare means marines can still shoot and kill things though. Defilers literally puts up a no-Terran zone for the duration of the swarm. Also defilers can get energy instantly, while Terran could bait ensnare then go back in when Queens are low on energy.

Zero has done ensnare strategies in Kespa (Andromeda game iirc) where he plays more of a battler zerg style and contests Terran's mid game map control with queens and mass crackling.

Yes, Defilers are defensive while Queens are purely aggressive units. However if Zerg defends with Defilers, it is only by the grace of Terrans. Defilers take 296 seconds to make the first one, 327.6 seconds from Spawning Pool to Consume. Science Vessels are done just in 232.7 seconds, 95 seconds before. During that time, a Queen would have 75 mana to cast Ensnare 225.5 seconds after the start of the Spawning Pool. That is my point.

Severedevil

United States4839 Posts

January 05 2024 23:50 GMT

#47

Yeah, if Zerg can contest Terran in the field, then ensnare is compelling as a force multiplier. Queens are also much more mobile than defilers. Crazy Zerg + Ensnare sounds feasible.

JieXian

Malaysia4677 Posts

January 06 2024 03:52 GMT

#48

As a noob, I actively want to infest BigFans CC's every game but I am still facing difficulties trying to control everything so I usually priorities other things. Luckily for him hahah