6 carriers is still instant win for the lower 80% of the starcraft players. Most reader on this forum are gosu and can spot a "low ground unit count" and micro goliaths like gosu, but that doesn't change the fact that carrier can be considered instant -win in this game... luck is not a factor
...That's a pretty bold statement to make, not just because I changed the font to bold. Is anyone here confident enough to think that because they are in the 20% bracket of better Starcraft players think they could beat a real gosu (the big names) like Savior, Iloveoov, Nalra, Boxer, July, Nada... you get my point, say on Lost Temple, even once? Even Sen struggled to win a single game, and excluding South Korean progamers he's in the top 1%. I know that's not what the OP was saying, but I just think he took the title gosu in vain and blasphemed.
Poll: Is Savior your bitch? (Vote): Yes (Vote): No (Vote): I fucking voted yes but after reading the question more carefully and realising it wasn't the same as the topic question actually meant no
Edit: fuck, I just realised my grammatical error in the last option, as there is actually no difference in the answers despite the questions being different.
yes but only because I like stastics. IE maybe there's a .0000001% that when I'm playing savior he breaks his wrist, or falls asleep, or get's distracted by a hot girl. If we play enough games, it'll happen eventually. Tortiose ftw over the hare!
If I played a pro like 100 games in a row, maybe he'd get tired and lose to a cheese rush or something.
But seriously, it's well known that Korean pros are way better than the foreigners.
I think d4d's use of "gosu" was relative; i.e. he probably meant "gosu among foreigners" (and probably not including the top-tier foreigners either, but just that TL regulars would probably whoop the average pubbie). IMO, you overreacted to his words.
On June 21 2007 04:54 pOOwarrior- wrote: If I played a pro like 100 games in a row, maybe he'd get tired and lose to a cheese rush or something.
But seriously, it's well known that Korean pros are way better than the foreigners.
I think d4d's use of "gosu" was relative; i.e. he probably meant "gosu among foreigners" (and probably not including the top-tier foreigners either, but just that TL regulars would probably whoop the average pubbie). IMO, you overreacted to his words.
i was just taking the piss out of his word choice, it's like if you were in a Christian circle and called yourself a "god" (of say, baseball or whatever) they'd think it was hugely offensive even though you didn't mean it in a holy way
Even top foreigner like draco testie sen or pj can hardly win a single game vs a pro who plays 100% so I think, we ( tlner users) would be crushed easily by pro
I could only beat a lower-class progammer that no one actually knows but figured in one of the proteams. august something.
It was a pvt and im zerg, so it was kinda "wtf ?". I cant be sure about him beign progamer or not. That day i played some of em and they introduced me to him, i dunno, i cant be sure if it was real.
If you dont take any weird ifs (like playing thousands of games hence improved skill and bla bla bla) I would not have even an remote chance of winning. Not even 4pool while he is underestimating me.
EDIT:Oh and I've played a pro in late 2004 and did not lose THAT bad since it was zvz. Still I would be lucky to survive over 10minutes if they remotely tried.
a progamer from 2002 - 2003. I voted no but then i so 'A progamer' some bad one i think yes, boxer or any top progamers no way, boxers micro and bo's ar to imba for me :D
in my best I could and did. I didn't play the highest caliber pro gamers, but vs the semi-pros I could often play a game. Ended up losing 90% of the time, but who cares. I did win every now and then So probably if I played Nada I could win every now and then. Not that I want to, because to achieve that one win Nada would assrape me so silly
I believe it's possible for anyone to win a game vs a pro gamer. Remember, progamers are human as well, so they have their weaknesses. The problem is that pro gamers have much more experience and practice, so chances of beating them are reduced drastically. Still, there's ALWAYS a possibility to beat one. It could be anything from exposing Yellow's low-eco style of play to savior falling off his chair and breaking his wrist.
Put it this way: Can you say it's absolutely impossible to beat a progamer as in 0% chance? Statistically, your chances might be close to 0, but not at in my opinion.
Well, I'd say Uhjoo could beat many of the progamers. Look how he totally schooled Sea and TT in the MSL wildcard (Too bad he ran into the Big Bird in the end).
On June 21 2007 06:23 HappyFeetO_O wrote: I think that I could probably beat Savior + Nada at the same time
You overreacted, gosu doesn't even mean the best these days, it simply means good. People say someone is gosu and they just mean the person is good.
Exactly.
When NaDa goes on bnet, he doesn't go under an anonymous ID. In an interview, he said that he could only get games with the "gosus" if he was signed in with his proper ID, Sea.s2 or NaDa.
On June 21 2007 07:42 ilovezil wrote: I believe it's possible for anyone to win a game vs a pro gamer. Remember, progamers are human as well, so they have their weaknesses. The problem is that pro gamers have much more experience and practice, so chances of beating them are reduced drastically. Still, there's ALWAYS a possibility to beat one. It could be anything from exposing Yellow's low-eco style of play to savior falling off his chair and breaking his wrist.
Put it this way: Can you say it's absolutely impossible to beat a progamer as in 0% chance? Statistically, your chances might be close to 0, but not at in my opinion.
lol... but the question is whether or not Savior is your bitch... in which case by picking yes you have just blamed the history of American crime and violence on men at a black slave freedom rally
- (see Family Guy, season one - the one where Peter becomes a feminist)
I could maybe win like 1 out of 10.000 games against one of the less skilled pro-gamers, but I would NEVER beat a top tier pro-gamer like NaDa, sAviOr, Nal_rA or someone like that.
On June 21 2007 08:01 Jyvblamo wrote: Well, I'd say Uhjoo could beat many of the progamers. Look how he totally schooled Sea and TT in the MSL wildcard (Too bad he ran into the Big Bird in the end).
I played against oversky in PGT. Needless to say i got assraped so bad i never had a chance to go on the offensive (zvz), never made it any further than my nat, it was Nostalgia I think. So no, I don't think i could take even one game off him, his micro is just too godly and as long as he doesn't go 3 hatch before pool or something risky like that, there's no way I could beat him.
when i was at my best I certainly could, and I did beat some.
they were slightly worse than they are today though and I was also better. now say I played savior, I think I'd be more likely to go 0-20 than 2-18. 1-19 should be doable tho, and of course it would all depend on map.
actually I think I should be able to win pvt and pvp vs anyone more frequently than 5% of the time, but no vs z matchups.
On June 21 2007 09:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: when i was at my best I certainly could, and I did beat some.
they were slightly worse than they are today though and I was also better. now say I played savior, I think I'd be more likely to go 0-20 than 2-18. 1-19 should be doable tho, and of course it would all depend on map.
actually I think I should be able to win pvt and pvp vs anyone more frequently than 5% of the time, but no vs z matchups.
On June 21 2007 08:51 abandonallhope wrote: I could maybe win like 1 out of 10.000 games against one of the less skilled pro-gamers, but I would NEVER beat a top tier pro-gamer like NaDa, sAviOr, Nal_rA or someone like that.
Well if you play 10.000games vs progamers I hope you'll win more than one game. A guess is that you'd get pretty skilled after 9500games or so.
On June 21 2007 08:51 abandonallhope wrote: I could maybe win like 1 out of 10.000 games against one of the less skilled pro-gamers, but I would NEVER beat a top tier pro-gamer like NaDa, sAviOr, Nal_rA or someone like that.
Well if you play 10.000games vs progamers I hope you'll win more than one game. A guess is that you'd get pretty skilled after 9500games or so.
On June 21 2007 04:43 RebelHeart wrote: I was intrigued to read this in another topic...
...That's a pretty bold statement to make, not just because I changed the font to bold. Is anyone here confident enough to think that because they are in the 20% bracket of better Starcraft players think they could beat a real gosu (the big names) like Savior, Iloveoov, Nalra, Boxer, July, Nada... you get my point, say on Lost Temple, even once? Even Sen struggled to win a single game, and excluding South Korean progamers he's in the top 1% . I know that's not what the OP was saying, but I just think he took the title gosu in vain and blasphemed.
lol 1 percent.. powned no i dont think i can pown a gosu
On June 21 2007 04:53 RebelHeart wrote: fuck, i just realised my grammatical error in the last option, as there is actually no difference in the answers despite the questions being different
Hilarious, 18 accidentally voted yes, but only 14 voted yes...rofl
u guys are seriously underestimating these players... i bet very few people from this site could take 1 game out of 10 from testie, and we have so many people here claiming they would "take 1 from savior ez".
there is not a big difference between pro/semipro/top foreigner level when comparing to most newbies. most ppl would lose anyway easily and wouldn't notice the difference. it's only small differences that account for gaps in skill, but these small gaps become very big at the top level
On June 21 2007 12:01 LeoTheLion wrote: one of my friends played assem at a georgia tech lan party
he proxied two gates in assem's base pvt, had 8 goons in assems base hitting shit, then switched to dt
and he still fucking lost
10 minute game
i would have qqed and gged in 2 min ez
so don't think 4 pool = auto win
sorry but ... assem not pro gamer , he near or was never near pro gamer level either .
How about reading his post? He said that EVEN after gaining a huge edge he was still unable to do shit to Assem, therefore using a favourable build vs. a pro won't ever guarantee you a win.
On June 21 2007 14:05 CharlieMurphy wrote: I would beat savior probably AT LEAST 1/15 games. Just for that fact that ZvZ is kinda like rock paper scissors buildwise.
lmao.
Have you seen sen vs savior? Sen gets a pretty much ideal build and still it was a fairly close game.
Hell, in chojja vs savior a few msl's ago 12 hatch vs 9 pool chojja canceled hatch and it still wasn't a rape.
On June 21 2007 06:25 Latham wrote: In a MU where we would play 300+ games together and I 4-pooled every single time, I think I might score 1 game.
Sinc eyou are playing the exact same way every time, I think they would catch on after two or three games and you would continue to lose another 297 games.
Now, if you played 173 games, and 4 pooled, then just totally switched it up... well, you would still lose :X
Progamers play like 10 hours a day and practice vs other gosu teammates non-stop. I'm lucky to play 10 hours a week... It's gg for me before we even press start. I wonder how long I'd last though.
5 Minutes? 10 Minutes? It would still be loads of fun playing vs someone that good.
If you, say, play 100 games vs savior, and every game is an independent event and you go 4 pool against him every game, you can probably win 10% of the time?
Obviously, if I were to play him straight up, without cheese, then the answer is no.
edit:
After actually reading what people have said:
Those who argue against the fact that you can cheese a game need to realize this:
Starcraft is a game, and luck plays a key role.
On LT, you spawn at 12 and 2 (which has the odds of 2/(4C2)), you go 4 pool and he goes 12 hatch, you WILL win.
If I stockpile canned beans and a ton of water, I could probably defeat an unprepared Savior in a Best Of 10,000,000 game series. Obviously I'd drag out the games for as long as possible to ensure that Savior is disqualified due to 1) Dying of thirst, 2) Getting bored, or 3) Coming over to Canada to whoop my ass.
On June 21 2007 16:34 Jyvblamo wrote: If I stockpile canned beans and a ton of water, I could probably defeat an unprepared Savior in a Best Of 10,000,000 game series. Obviously I'd drag out the games for as long as possible to ensure that Savior is disqualified due to 1) Dying of thirst, 2) Getting bored, or 3) Coming over to Canada to whoop my ass.
On June 21 2007 06:25 Latham wrote: In a MU where we would play 300+ games together and I 4-pooled every single time, I think I might score 1 game.
You really think after the first 10 games hes not going to catch on to the pattern? All I'm saying is, you better hope the first one works. However savior would just 7 pool every game against random chobos. Sorta like the korean playing as ilnp back when all that shit down He raped the ladder going 7 pool every game.
On June 21 2007 06:25 Latham wrote: In a MU where we would play 300+ games together and I 4-pooled every single time, I think I might score 1 game.
You really think after the first 10 games hes not going to catch on to the pattern? All I'm saying is, you better hope the first one works. However savior would just 7 pool every game against random chobos. Sorta like the korean playing as ilnp back when all that shit down He raped the ladder going 7 pool every game.
actually banana.milk was ilnp in the wdt ladder. It was in the playoff or whatever it is called some korean played under that nick. Cant find reks post were he said who it was. Also ilnp 9pooled every game in the ladder. Atleast in all reps I have left.
EDIT:Also he didnt rape the ladder. iirc he was one of the last to get inte the playoff. Not that sure about that part. But he did not have stats like 90-10 or anything like that.
If I was regularly practicing i could prob take a game here and there vs lower level pros in casual play. Given enough games anyone really good could take a win from somebody, get a dope enough start and you can just play an autopilot match and not much they can do. BW has a lot of luck like that.
If they knew they were playing a total nub, then they'd probably be sure to do a super safe build that would normally put them behind against another pro but vs us it woudln't matter because they'd pwn us so hard...
But i'm a cocky guy so I say I win 1 out of 1000? oh yeah.... we'd be playing bloodbath and i'd be going random.
cannon the entire map? no, he'd get me before i do that 4 pool? no, his drones would eat my lings for breakfast scv rush? drones would eat them if he visioned me? i think i'd quit before he attacks if he started with only 3 workers? he'd still be 3 workers ahead if he played blindfolded? well, at least he won't take his blindfold off 2 mins into game j/k if he was only allowed to play with one hand? i hope it's his left hand then if nr 15 mins? he'd max the map by then with larva from mass hatcheries if i got a team melee of decent players 7v1 savior? hey, maybe... but what i need is...
Yes I can beat a pro-gamer, on a day of my best form and I'm playing the worst progamer on his worst day making the worst tactical and technical mistake in his entire career.
On June 22 2007 02:20 NotinanywaydrE wrote: Hi I just wanted to say that I have beat a pro gamer, and in fact I have a winning record against korean pro gamers.
Well, I'd probably score 2 or 3 wins out of 100 in a series with someone of a lower-class progamer. (Casy PvT hah?) They train their timings and mechanics and many of them have lowered gameflow feel, thus they may get confused with my somewhat random and inefficient builds - i.e. prepare to cheese when I'm doing my standard. I can play ok when I catch my wavelength, so these two things can probably coincide at some point and I can score a win. With super-aggressive builds I might even score a "fair" win like Draco did vs Midas - he went pretty cheesy first reavering him, then DT'ing him and bringing him to the point where an average terran would just quit, and Midas still put up additional 10 minutes of very close fighting. These guys get better as the game progresses, so if I aimed at something that would score me an early win and got very lucky microing, then who knows.
Guys like Savior and Bisu, though... hardly. These peeps just understand the game a tad more than I - I simply cannot possibly do something that would surprise them. No, not Savior-caliber. Not in PvZ, at least. Sen scored a quick win in ZvZ, afaik. That is possible.
On June 22 2007 14:36 BluzMan wrote: Well, I'd probably score 2 or 3 wins out of 100 in a series with someone of a lower-class progamer. (Casy PvT hah?) They train their timings and mechanics and many of them have lowered gameflow feel, thus they may get confused with my somewhat random and inefficient builds - i.e. prepare to cheese when I'm doing my standard. I can play ok when I catch my wavelength, so these two things can probably coincide at some point and I can score a win. With super-aggressive builds I might even score a "fair" win like Draco did vs Midas - he went pretty cheesy first reavering him, then DT'ing him and bringing him to the point where an average terran would just quit, and Midas still put up additional 10 minutes of very close fighting. These guys get better as the game progresses, so if I aimed at something that would score me an early win and got very lucky microing, then who knows.
Guys like Savior and Bisu, though... hardly. These peeps just understand the game a tad more than I - I simply cannot possibly do something that would surprise them. No, not Savior-caliber. Not in PvZ, at least. Sen scored a quick win in ZvZ, afaik. That is possible.
i don't think draco went with an initial reaver build, i think he went two gate proxy and pumped goons. and then took out midas' nat.
the thing is, come on, we play (well some of us) for fun, and these guys play professionally. it's like me trying to score on kobe bryant or something. blah, just my opinion.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://teamliquid.net/staff/Hot_Bid/TLCardGame/ahkgosu.jpg )
So probably if I played Nada I could win every now and then. Not that I want to, because to achieve that one win Nada would assrape me so silly
![[image loading]](http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4237/canibeatprog1vy1.png)
![[image loading]](http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/8180/canibeatprogamerrb2.png)
![[image loading]](http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6369/footosvy5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y59/Sc0rpion10/ahkgosu6rv.jpg)
