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Patch 1.23.2 - Page 11

Forum Index > BW General
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BlueStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Bulgaria1167 Posts
December 13 2019 14:33 GMT
#201
On December 13 2019 22:58 PorkSoda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2019 11:00 LaStScan wrote:
On December 13 2019 10:48 castleeMg wrote:
[image loading]
that is the screenshot that blizzard teased in july of 2017 for SC:R. very deceptive for them to imply "2v2" was a specific game mode, hinting that team matchmaking would be available on launch


I find it strange because New HBR is 2 player map and you can't play 2v2... Maybe they didn't have TOP vs BOTTOM mode and it turned out to be like that or who knows.

I’m guessing that screenshot was made by some digital marketing team at blizzard that knows nothing about the games or maps.

I'd rephrase it:
I’m guessing hoping that screenshot was made by some digital marketing team at blizzard that knows nothing about the games or maps.
Leader of the Bulgarian National SCBW/SC2 team and team pSi.SCBW/SC2
Cele
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Germany4016 Posts
December 13 2019 14:53 GMT
#202
Shieldbattery was a great project that could have gone far if sc:r hadnd't been realeased and the project was halted shortly after. But i still see great potential for it to be the platform of the future.

In the meantime, if everyone here is really as annoyed as they say, just remember your iccup account. The server is in no great condition, but it's functional 1v1 and 2v2 ladder, no major bugs and admins who work actively against hacks and excessive bm.
Broodwar for life!
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
December 13 2019 15:36 GMT
#203
Neo Hall of Vahalla is also 4 player map. can't be played for 4v4. Take a look at screenshot closely lol...
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
December 13 2019 16:19 GMT
#204
On December 14 2019 00:36 LaStScan wrote:
Neo Hall of Vahalla is also 4 player map. can't be played for 4v4. Take a look at screenshot closely lol...

On December 13 2019 11:00 LaStScan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2019 10:48 castleeMg wrote:
[image loading]
that is the screenshot that blizzard teased in july of 2017 for SC:R. very deceptive for them to imply "2v2" was a specific game mode, hinting that team matchmaking would be available on launch


I find it strange because New HBR is 2 player map and you can't play 2v2... Maybe they didn't have TOP vs BOTTOM mode and it turned out to be like that or who knows.

It's most likely a mash up made by a graphics artist who had little to do with competitive Brood War. No conspiracy here.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
PorkSoda
Profile Joined September 2015
170 Posts
December 13 2019 19:05 GMT
#205
On December 13 2019 05:36 Red.T45 wrote:
We have the opportunity to go back to 1.16 aka b4 SC:R and start using MCA launcher and all the other 3rd party tools again when ever we decide to, right? I mean, these things never went away, we just stopped using them in favor of SC:R. What would we lose by doing so? Some polished grafics and the matchmaking. Matchmaking is a loss, sure. Grafics? Not really.

We do have that opportunity, but the problem is convincing the whole player base to move at once. There’s a specific sociological name associated with this phenomenon, but the short of it is that enough enough people don’t migrate over together it’s bound to fail.
dark.matter
Profile Joined April 2017
177 Posts
December 13 2019 21:25 GMT
#206
We have to manufacture a crisis and be ready w the solution. Social engineering 101.
SchAmToo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1141 Posts
December 13 2019 21:46 GMT
#207
On December 14 2019 04:05 PorkSoda wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2019 05:36 Red.T45 wrote:
We have the opportunity to go back to 1.16 aka b4 SC:R and start using MCA launcher and all the other 3rd party tools again when ever we decide to, right? I mean, these things never went away, we just stopped using them in favor of SC:R. What would we lose by doing so? Some polished grafics and the matchmaking. Matchmaking is a loss, sure. Grafics? Not really.

We do have that opportunity, but the problem is convincing the whole player base to move at once. There’s a specific sociological name associated with this phenomenon, but the short of it is that enough enough people don’t migrate over together it’s bound to fail.


If you have a superior product, the people won't have to be convinced.

I don't see how ICCUP or SB are superior products to SC:R, I know this is signing my death warrant on this website, but SC:R has a lot... A LOT of great stuff.
twitch.tv/schamtoo | twitter.com/schamtoo
EndingLife
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States1594 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-13 22:28:29
December 13 2019 22:26 GMT
#208
Getting the whole player base to move at once isn't going to be an easy task. With foreigners gone, Koreans will be happy about strictly Turn Rate 24 games again. I'm sure there are plenty of casual players and plenty of high level foreigners who will stay put as well. High level foreigners who are trying to improve their skills won't be able to find Korean opponents on a different server. I don't see the mass migration to another server working unless it's the WHOLE remastered player base, which is highly unlikely.
PorkSoda
Profile Joined September 2015
170 Posts
December 14 2019 00:10 GMT
#209
Once gamers showed their willingness to pay full price for games in alpha testing (AKA early access) the days of getting a game with all its features and thorough QA testing were over.
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
December 14 2019 01:21 GMT
#210
On December 13 2019 10:14 SchAmToo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2019 07:45 LG)Sabbath wrote:
On December 13 2019 06:56 SchAmToo wrote:
On December 12 2019 23:07 BlueStar wrote:
On December 11 2019 06:26 SchAmToo wrote:
On December 11 2019 06:17 fazek42 wrote:
On the other hand, if we start a class-action lawsuit against Blizzard.


Does anyone actually think there is a remote chance a class-action lawsuit is even feasible let alone affordable?


On December 11 2019 06:17 fazek42 wrote:
Should mostly be doable in a year with proper leadership I think.


Project manager in me says with what resourcing, who says what is priority, and what leadership?


I wonder:
Isn't it a fraud - to promise features on release and have nothing to show 2+ years later?


I'm curious on this. I hear this a lot, but does anyone have the SOURCE of the exact promises? All I ever see are better remastered graphics and "matchmaking" but not "Team Matchmaking". In which, they did that.

Does anyone have a source for promised 2v2 MM?



it was mentioned in the developer update #3 which was almost 2 years ago

it's also telling that the developer updates have stopped completely and were reduced to the occasional forum post


Not really advertising so I doubt a case could be made for false adverts. It is a promise that's been broken though.

I was just answering your question and actually I think it's hard to claim false advertising even with the screenshot showing the 2v2 mode, it doesn't explicitly say it's auto matchmaking.

On the other hand I understand people's frustration and even though they can claim that SC:R didn't make them that much money to be worth putting more developers into, it's pretty obvious that any small company that made half as much from their game would have put a LOT more love and time into it afterwards to keep the ball rolling. Blizzard just doesn't care about SC anymore, it's not a source of big bucks for them in the long term.
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
tec27
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States3701 Posts
December 14 2019 01:43 GMT
#211
On December 14 2019 06:46 SchAmToo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2019 04:05 PorkSoda wrote:
On December 13 2019 05:36 Red.T45 wrote:
We have the opportunity to go back to 1.16 aka b4 SC:R and start using MCA launcher and all the other 3rd party tools again when ever we decide to, right? I mean, these things never went away, we just stopped using them in favor of SC:R. What would we lose by doing so? Some polished grafics and the matchmaking. Matchmaking is a loss, sure. Grafics? Not really.

We do have that opportunity, but the problem is convincing the whole player base to move at once. There’s a specific sociological name associated with this phenomenon, but the short of it is that enough enough people don’t migrate over together it’s bound to fail.


If you have a superior product, the people won't have to be convinced.

I don't see how ICCUP or SB are superior products to SC:R, I know this is signing my death warrant on this website, but SC:R has a lot... A LOT of great stuff.

I'd hope that's not a particularly controversial opinion. Imagining that playing ICCup with zero changes from how it was 4-5 years ago wouldn't result in the same shrinking player base and frustrations is a major "grass is greener" undertaking.

The things Blizzard chose to implement aren't bad per se, they're mostly obvious things. And they're largely even the same things we focused on initially with SB. The problem is that Blizzard mostly implements things in a ham-fisted way, without really understanding the motivations of the people who will use it. They spend far too much time asking players what they want, and far too little time thinking about why they want those things.

I 100% believe that having a crappy version of those things is probably better than having no version of those things. The problem here, to me, is that in implementing the crappy versions of those things, Blizzard didn't bring the community any closer to the good version of those things. As could have been fairly expected, Remastered doesn't contribute in any real meaningful way to Blizzard's bottom line, and they are not a charity, so work on it has been mostly deprioritized. We are left with a team that is about the size of what ShieldBattery had working on it, but without the community understanding that ShieldBattery had.

And worse, their work in updating the game to more modern infrastructure also includes updates that simply make it quite challenging to build on top of. Alongside the obvious changes to things that took months of work to integrate with (e.g. game launching), they've added things like their anti-hack/anti-debugger solution from Overwatch. The intentions of these things are, I'm sure, noble: they want to stop people from hacking. But these things are not impenetrable for hackers: there are ways around these things that, with the right amount of expertise, you can implement. But Blizzard has historically been very litigious against distributing software to do that, or documenting how it can be done. So if, say, an open source project like ShieldBattery wanted to build on top of the Remastered client, at least part of our client would have to remain closed source, and it becomes very hard to distribute reverse engineering efforts across the team. Even then, it's a larger risk to the project as a whole.

Being in a position where the version you have will still not sustain the game/community long-term, and this newer version is actually further (at least as far as amount of effort) from something that would isn't great. That's the spot I feel like we're in now, and it's very frustrating. But I totally agree that the solution isn't to expect everyone to just give up on the half-good versions of those features.
Can you jam with the console cowboys in cyberspace?
Kertorak
Profile Joined November 2019
125 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 04:25:58
December 14 2019 04:21 GMT
#212
On November 20 2019 19:55 AntiHack wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 20 2019 12:57 TT1 wrote:
On November 20 2019 12:27 LG)Sabbath wrote:
Do CB and FS have to be in there every season though? 1 standard map is ok but 2 is too much imo, at least give us different versions of them


ya cus of the korean scene, they were asked to

I think the Korean scene have no problems with repetitive games because sport is repetitiveness if you didn't know guys.
Manage to develop the joy of improvement or this game is probably not for you.

P.s. you can still make 1v1 custom lobbies with whatever map you like.


Still in Broodwar, people enjoyed new maps,
new challenges
(by getting used to the new map finding the building placement etc etc!!!!!), new updates, perhaps slightly balance (I agree not too much)
I think maps a very good way to keep the game cool, without having to change its balance or inventing fancy units that don't make sense, like in sc2...
BW wouldn't be as it is without Blizzard handing over community map upgrading...


Regarding a certain scene, just because one scene likes it, doesn't mean it's good. THe korean sscene and culture is vastly different... Even back then there is a big difference between Korean/foreigners in general like foreigners don't play 12 hours, they are better with actually playing less. ... just one of the examples.
I wish I had quality over quantity | "The point of Sc<x> is that your skill a constant WIP - which provides that unique joy of the game - not to post which rank you are in a this moment"
QuadroX
Profile Joined August 2017
386 Posts
December 14 2019 07:20 GMT
#213
Iccup is playable but it has a problem now - not enough people to play with. If anything major happens to blizzard client people will migrate by themselves. So far SC: R client is better like Shamtoo said. We always had this alternative.

If at some point we decide that community tournaments must be played on iccup due to instability of sc:r client, people will install it and play no problem.
BlueStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Bulgaria1167 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 11:52:14
December 14 2019 11:51 GMT
#214
We just wanted the old game to run on 64bit system with polished graphics.

Nobody asked for the auto matchmaking or the other 'enhancments' that are coming back to fuck us all ffs.
Leader of the Bulgarian National SCBW/SC2 team and team pSi.SCBW/SC2
Poegim
Profile Joined February 2017
Poland264 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 12:54:14
December 14 2019 12:53 GMT
#215
Maybe just you, dont talk for everyone. No one asked for auto mm lol. Ppl crying now if they cant find game in 3 minutes, in 2016 you was forced to search a game for 30 minutes at morning CET time. So bad we have auto mm lol. Seriously?
Aka: Poezja[T4], Zulu. [[ Probably second best player in the world. In honor of my best friend Moagim, he was a Kraken from the sea. Poegim ]]
LG)Sabbath
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Argentina3024 Posts
December 14 2019 14:21 GMT
#216
On December 14 2019 20:51 BlueStar wrote:
We just wanted the old game to run on 64bit system with polished graphics.

Nobody asked for the auto matchmaking or the other 'enhancments' that are coming back to fuck us all ffs.

Auto MM is literally the only reason I still play, even though my game lags and is not entirely enjoyable in its current state
https://www.twitch.tv/argsabbath/
BlueStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Bulgaria1167 Posts
December 14 2019 14:25 GMT
#217
Aye, mmr and auto match making are the thing that sells me the game.

Sorry poegrim, my bad.
Leader of the Bulgarian National SCBW/SC2 team and team pSi.SCBW/SC2
fazek42
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Hungary438 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-12-14 14:53:37
December 14 2019 14:42 GMT
#218
On December 14 2019 06:46 SchAmToo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2019 04:05 PorkSoda wrote:
On December 13 2019 05:36 Red.T45 wrote:
We have the opportunity to go back to 1.16 aka b4 SC:R and start using MCA launcher and all the other 3rd party tools again when ever we decide to, right? I mean, these things never went away, we just stopped using them in favor of SC:R. What would we lose by doing so? Some polished grafics and the matchmaking. Matchmaking is a loss, sure. Grafics? Not really.

We do have that opportunity, but the problem is convincing the whole player base to move at once. There’s a specific sociological name associated with this phenomenon, but the short of it is that enough enough people don’t migrate over together it’s bound to fail.


If you have a superior product, the people won't have to be convinced.

I don't see how ICCUP or SB are superior products to SC:R, I know this is signing my death warrant on this website, but SC:R has a lot... A LOT of great stuff.


I agree with this. SB and Iccup are superior to SC:R in some aspects, and inferior in other aspects. For me overall the Iccup experience was better, but for someone who couldn't port forward, set compatibility settings, cares about HD graphics, custom hotkeys, etc., and doesn't care about friends list, hackers, 2v2 ladder, performance issues, country ladder, clans, buggy patches-jumpy cursors etc., SC:R will win out.

And I agree that it's key to keep the playerbase in one central place -- ironically, this is something that SC:R has been failing at since release with it's separate-server architecture -- except for 1v1 matchmaking, which is reasonably global. Which is good. But it baffles my why they have to release a remaster where in a bunch of areas the new version is a lot shittier than the old one, even though it is objectively a lot better in a bunch of other areas. And even if they did have to release it, why couldn't they fix all these shortcomings in TWO MOTHERFLIPPING YEARS.

edit.: tec27 pretty much answers this post in his post above ↑
LaStScan
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1289 Posts
December 14 2019 17:53 GMT
#219
Does blizzard know that Cyan and other similar colors still exist when they play random color?
Trying my best for ASL, ASTL
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10675 Posts
December 14 2019 19:35 GMT
#220
I really enjoyed Shield Battery server, I thought it was cool because it brings everyone together to one server to talk together, and the latency was amazing, I think it was better than Remastered and #LL / #L2 back in the day, Bring back shield battery!
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
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