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Hello TL, after 5-6 months of not playing & moving around, I came back to Brood War on a completely new setup, there is nothing really I can do about the new Desk / Chair that I have to get used to, but this basic Lenovo mouse / Keyboard is just not cutting it.
I was wondering if anyone knew specifically what mouse / keyboard that most pro's are using in the ASL / KSL games, and or if anyone had any specific suggestions on what is good now a days & easy to adjust to.
https://tl.net/forum/closed-threads/6632-what-is-best-mouse-iyo-for-broodwar
I found this old thread, and many people seem to enjoy the MX300, the keyboard isn't as difficult obviously, I am so used to mechanical keyboards that I will most likely just get another Corsair, def. not a Razer keyboard...although I really like the Razer Abyssus mouse for BW, it is cheap / made for RTS (they say) / and only has the regular left / right click, simple.
Any feedback is appreciated, thanks boys & girls.
EDIT : Keyboard I'd like to get is qsen dt-35 (I forgot about this Keyboard, but Bonyth said this is what he uses, I trust his Protoss judgement) , it seems popular, going to see if there are any retailers here in SoCal near me that carry it.
EDIT 2 : Looks like you have to order the QSEN DT-35 gaming keyboard online, it is on Amazon which is cool, this is the one I found if anyone else is interested, I would like to try a new mouse, I have tried many Razer mice, Steel series, logitech, and more...The best mouse i've used is the Abyssus, although I'd like to experiment with something new.
https://www.amazon.com/QSENN-SEM-DT55-Aluminium-Gaming-Keyboard/dp/B01IA9TCGU/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?keywords=qsen dt-35&qid=1564252072&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr1
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I'm using a Final Mouse Air58 (also Razer DeathAdder has always suited me well too) and keyboard 'was' a Kira Mechanical (Kira keyboard) ... lately, I've gone back to a Razer (Razer keyboard) keyboard which I find more comfortable for my wrist. Likely, any keyboard enthusiast would argue the Kira is superior, but comfort is comfort, just like a very light mouse <60g in weight with a good cable (paracord) is also "better" ... but still, I find myself going back to the heavier Razer DeathAdder purely for comfort.
Find your own individual comfort and you'll be better off than gunning for just the 'fancy' things. Good luck.
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51419 Posts
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Googled and found this list from 2017 (in Korean).
Some examples:
God: DT-35, Zowie Mico
Bisu: DT-35, Logitec Mini Optical + G303 custom mouse
JD: DT-35, fk mini 2
Overall DT-35 and Logitec Mini Optical are the ones used by most.
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I always knew DT-35 is a StarCraft keyboard, all pros on KeSPA played with that but still wonder if it's better than mechanical? Wonder the reason why pros stick with it: just because they used to -OR- membrane is better than mechanical for SC1.
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Awesome, thank you all very much for your really detailed responses, learning how to play on a new setup is like learning how to walk again, although it can be really fun. I'm excited to try the DT-35 for the first time and one of these new mice, thanks again!
EDIT : TT1 I think that Plum keyboard is awesome, I have never used the F keys ever, this would be a good opportunity to use them... I have pretty small hands lol... and that honey comb mouse looks great, how does it compare to the abyssus in terms of weight / accuracy?
@SuGo what is the difference between the two abyssus?
@GTR thanks I wasn't sure, that one just looked a little fancier =P
@outscar yes I have heard of the DT35 alot over my years of BW, but I guess I never really took a change of keyboard too seriously, as I always had a mechanical keyboard, and I felt like the mouse was a little more important to me for control / micro / apm, as I can usually adjust to a keyboard alot easier.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
On July 28 2019 11:27 outscar wrote:
I always knew DT-35 is a StarCraft keyboard, all pros on KeSPA played with that but still wonder if it's better than mechanical? Wonder the reason why pros stick with it: just because they used to -OR- membrane is better than mechanical for SC1.
in some ways the higher restoration force on the keys is a benefit. The small key spacing helps with smaller hands.
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I've always used 10$ equipment to play. Is there a large difference with a more expensive mouse and keyboard?
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On July 28 2019 14:28 A.Alm wrote:
I've always used 10$ equipment to play. Is there a large difference with a more expensive mouse and keyboard?
Honestly only with the mouse, will have a better sensor without accel/decel and better accuracy probably.
Keyboard mainly for feel, mechanical keyboards have never made me play or feel better at the game or typing.
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I use the Razer Abyssus and a QSENN, been liking this combo for a while
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On July 28 2019 11:27 outscar wrote:
I always knew DT-35 is a StarCraft keyboard, all pros on KeSPA played with that but still wonder if it's better than mechanical? Wonder the reason why pros stick with it: just because they used to -OR- membrane is better than mechanical for SC1.
There's not that many players except flash, bisu and jaedong who still use DT-35.
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Scan: RealForce R2 TLSA / FKmini2
eOnzErG: HyperX brand keyboard red switch full keys / some logitech mouse
we both used DT35 before(eOn used it like last year, but threw away after couple months) and last time I used DT35 was 2015.
EDIT : Keyboard I'd like to get is qsen dt-35 (I forgot about this Keyboard, but Bonyth said this is what he uses, I trust his Protoss judgement) , it seems popular, going to see if there are any retailers here in SoCal near me that carry it.
It was popular when the mechanical keyboard wasn't popularized, but I wouldn't recommend you to get this keyboard in 2019 if you can invest more money into the keyboard.
If you want the mechanical keyboard that feels nearly the same as DT35(membrane keyboard), Topre keyboard is awesome choice for you to choose, and that's what I've done.
Looks like you have to order the QSEN DT-35 gaming keyboard online, it is on Amazon which is cool, this is the one I found if anyone else is interested, I would like to try a new mouse, I have tried many Razer mice, Steel series, logitech, and more...The best mouse i've used is the Abyssus, although I'd like to experiment with something new.
choosing a mouse is more important than a keyboard. It is your paint brush, most of the action is done with your mouse.
I've used the same shape of mouse for more than 11 years.
btw, i mind about keyboard layout. Like this.
F1 F2 F3 F4 F1 F2 F3 F4
1 2 3 4 5 vs 2 3 4 5
Corsair Keyboard
vs
RealForce R2 TLSA
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If the Logitech G303 and Logitech Mini Optical are anything to go by, I'm sure the aforementioned Logitech G203 is great for BW!
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Jesus... Scan, those RealForce keyboards are 250-300$+ lol, I have never in my life even considered spending that much on a keyboard.... Mind = Blown
EDIT : I am really surprised by the price on the RealForce Keyboards wtf...they look like keyboard's I used to use back in 2000
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On July 29 2019 00:26 GGzerG wrote:
Jesus... Scan, those RealForce keyboards are 250-300$+ lol, I have never in my life even considered spending that much on a keyboard.... Mind = Blown
EDIT : I am really surprised by the price on the RealForce Keyboards wtf...they look like keyboard's I used to use back in 2000
It's really worth it. feels like membrane keyboard from DT35 + mechanical keyboard + infinite input(? idk what its called)
If you ever need how it sounds like, i can record for you.
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On July 29 2019 00:58 LaStScan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 00:26 GGzerG wrote:
Jesus... Scan, those RealForce keyboards are 250-300$+ lol, I have never in my life even considered spending that much on a keyboard.... Mind = Blown
EDIT : I am really surprised by the price on the RealForce Keyboards wtf...they look like keyboard's I used to use back in 2000 It's really worth it. feels like membrane keyboard from DT35 + mechanical keyboard + infinite input(? idk what its called) If you ever need how it sounds like, i can record for you.
Yeah that would be cool to hear and see a FP view of your keyboard in a game one time
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Netherlands4511 Posts
Anyone have an idea where one could order an fk mini 2 mouse?
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qsenn dt-35 for membrane, leopold fc750r for mechanical
logitech g9x mouse. its the only way to play
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Ret you can get it on 'taobao' - it's a chinese shop market. I've been ordering fk mini mouses using a 'bhiner' agent for that. Just type bhiner in google and then type fkmini mouse in searchbar, and you can easily order the mouse.
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This thread has turned into an amazing source of information, thanks everyone for your feedback.
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So I was feeling experimental and I got a Corsair K55 "Gaming" regular non mechanical membrane keyboard, and a Logitech G203, the G203 I haven't ever seen or used but after messing around with it a little it seems like it will be a good mouse to practice on, I will still most likely order the DT35 to see how it works, but I think I can adjust to this keyboard regardless, the mouse seems like it will be great, I also am going to order the mini 2 and see how that works.
EDIT : Wow I haven't used a keyboard with a wrist wrest in a long time maybe 10+ years, and my APM jumped up 40/50+ due to this new keyboard / mouse, I think that is a solid investment.
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I've spent a lot of time searching for the perfect keyboard + mouse combo.
Here's my observations:
Best Mouse (small, lightweight, fingertip grip):
1. Zowie Mico, hands down. If you can find one - get one, they are very rare but don't spend more than $100 on it.  That's what I'm currently using atm and very happy about the choice.
2. LMO clones: FKMini2 (can get it on Taobao via proxy website like yoybuy.com, thats how I got mine),
CROAD M325 (ebay, looks promising, review: https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/ccyf1p/croad_m325_is_a_zowie_mico_clone_with_omron/), ABKO Hacker A400 (ebay, a little bit heavier, but zero issues with this mouse so far), NKEY MINI G007 (can get it on ebay, Zowie Mico clone actually, pretty good, but Mico is better).
3. Logitech G203/102/G-Pro or G305 Wireless (yes, it's good for gaming now) with light Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA battery.
All those three options are very good compared to anything else, and I switch between them from time to time.
Best keyboard (reliable and cosistent, even weight, good build quality):
1. Leopold FC-750R/Filco Majestouch TKL with Cherry Brown switches. Zero issues, good build quality. Can also get Cherry Red switches with it.
2. CM Novatouch with topre-like switches or real topre if you have money for it. I used Plum boards but 35g feel too light, 45g is the best weight to my taste.
3. DT35 is overrated. It's a membrane keyboard. Means you don't have even weight on each key and as the time goes the membrane gets worse. Could get stiff or some keypresses register at different key travel distance. With mechanical or capasitive boards around I don't see any benefits at all. Also it's bulky with a numpad.
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G305(4) all the way baby!.. Cordless gaming FTW! (and without lag/delay)
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On July 29 2019 16:37 QuadroX wrote:I've spent a lot of time searching for the perfect keyboard + mouse combo. Here's my observations: Best Mouse (small, lightweight, fingertip grip): 1. Zowie Mico, hands down. If you can find one - get one, they are very rare but don't spend more than $100 on it. That's what I'm currently using atm and very happy about the choice. 2. LMO clones: FKMini2 (can get it on Taobao via proxy website like yoybuy.com, thats how I got mine), CROAD M325 (ebay, looks promising, review: https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/ccyf1p/croad_m325_is_a_zowie_mico_clone_with_omron/), ABKO Hacker A400 (ebay, a little bit heavier, but zero issues with this mouse so far), NKEY MINI G007 (can get it on ebay, Zowie Mico clone actually, pretty good, but Mico is better). 3. Logitech G203/102/G-Pro or G305 Wireless (yes, it's good for gaming now) with light Energizer Ultimate Lithium AAA battery. All those three options are very good compared to anything else, and I switch between them from time to time. Best keyboard (reliable and cosistent, even weight, good build quality): 1. Leopold FC-750R/Filco Majestouch TKL with Cherry Brown switches. Zero issues, good build quality. Can also get Cherry Red switches with it. 2. CM Novatouch with topre-like switches or real topre if you have money for it. I used Plum boards but 35g feel too light, 45g is the best weight to my taste. 3. DT35 is overrated. It's a membrane keyboard. Means you don't have even weight on each key and as the time goes the membrane gets worse. Could get stiff or some keypresses register at different key travel distance. With mechanical or capasitive boards around I don't see any benefits at all. Also it's bulky with a numpad.
I hate my nkey mini g007. Not because of the shell but because the buttons are wayyyyy to rough for my little hands.
Mines been sitting there doing nothing, so if anyone is interested in buying it, i'd be willing to sell. I used it for a month and hasn't been touched since, that was on feb of this year. Works fine and has hyperglides on it. I tried sanding down the buttons from underneath the shell but that didn't seem to help.
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On July 29 2019 01:02 GGzerG wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 00:58 LaStScan wrote:On July 29 2019 00:26 GGzerG wrote:
Jesus... Scan, those RealForce keyboards are 250-300$+ lol, I have never in my life even considered spending that much on a keyboard.... Mind = Blown
EDIT : I am really surprised by the price on the RealForce Keyboards wtf...they look like keyboard's I used to use back in 2000 It's really worth it. feels like membrane keyboard from DT35 + mechanical keyboard + infinite input(? idk what its called) If you ever need how it sounds like, i can record for you. Yeah that would be cool to hear and see a FP view of your keyboard in a game one time
please add me/talk to me on discord.
Discord: Scan#5181
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On July 29 2019 04:00 anXieTyTheBigBoy wrote:
qsenn dt-35 for membrane, leopold fc750r for mechanical
logitech g9x mouse. its the only way to play
 Pro gear
According to this many top SC2 pros (Innovation, Maru, Dark etc.) use Leopold FC700R (don't know difference between 750R). Seems like it's a good keyboard.
Also true for G9X but AFAIK it's discontinued so harder to find.
But I'm interested about what switches they prefer? Red is too light, you can miss type some keys. Blue is too loud and heavy to press, personally it feels/makes my hands tired faster and from what I read Blue switches are best for typing but not gaming (Same applies to MX Green Razer switches, I tried Blackwidow and felt same way). So Brown's or Black's should do the trick IMO. There are also MX Clears but I'm not experienced and also new Razer switches such as Yellow and Orange but they're hybrid between Reds and browns.
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On July 29 2019 22:24 outscar wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 04:00 anXieTyTheBigBoy wrote:
qsenn dt-35 for membrane, leopold fc750r for mechanical
logitech g9x mouse. its the only way to play Pro gearAccording to this many top SC2 pros (Innovation, Maru, Dark etc.) use Leopold FC700R (don't know difference between 750R). Seems like it's a good keyboard. Also true for G9X but AFAIK it's discontinued so harder to find. But I'm interested about what switches they prefer? Red is too light, you can miss type some keys. Blue is too loud and heavy to press, personally it feels/makes my hands tired faster and from what I read Blue switches are best for typing but not gaming (Same applies to MX Green Razer switches, I tried Blackwidow and felt same way). So Brown's or Black's should do the trick IMO. There are also MX Clears but I'm not experienced and also new Razer switches such as Yellow and Orange but they're hybrid between Reds and browns.
It's a matter of preference, you'll find find pros using all the most common ones. Innovation uses reds, Solar uses blues, Stats uses Razer greens, I heard Soulkey uses browns...
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On July 30 2019 03:26 ciel123 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2019 22:24 outscar wrote:On July 29 2019 04:00 anXieTyTheBigBoy wrote:
qsenn dt-35 for membrane, leopold fc750r for mechanical
logitech g9x mouse. its the only way to play Pro gearAccording to this many top SC2 pros (Innovation, Maru, Dark etc.) use Leopold FC700R (don't know difference between 750R). Seems like it's a good keyboard. Also true for G9X but AFAIK it's discontinued so harder to find. But I'm interested about what switches they prefer? Red is too light, you can miss type some keys. Blue is too loud and heavy to press, personally it feels/makes my hands tired faster and from what I read Blue switches are best for typing but not gaming (Same applies to MX Green Razer switches, I tried Blackwidow and felt same way). So Brown's or Black's should do the trick IMO. There are also MX Clears but I'm not experienced and also new Razer switches such as Yellow and Orange but they're hybrid between Reds and browns. It's a matter of preference, you'll find find pros using all the most common ones. Innovation uses reds, Solar uses blues, Stats uses Razer greens, I heard Soulkey uses browns...
I can't speak for others but imo mech keyboards aren't great for BW. They generally have more travel distance so cycling through keys takes more time and effort. There's way more hotkey cycling in BW as opposed to SC2 so you wanna have a comfortable membraney keyboard, it allows you to swap between keys quicker/more effortlessly.
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I was using Qpad 5K pro mouse for few years, the mouse never got bad after many many clicks. eventually my son broke it and i got a replacemtn (that was limited edition so they were unable to buy)
so i managed to find replacement but click didn't work as good as on my previous mouse.
i managed to do over 400 apm with it and my hands didn't get tired.
I can't use the current replacement mouse even though it suppose to be same. it's just not as good on click.
currently i switched to Razer Death Adder (transformers edition) that feels bit better than normal death adder on click, also it is gloss so fingers stick on it more or less.
I wouldn't say it gives me best performance in terms of muta micro and stuff, but i managed to beat firebathero with it in 2014 and it does over 300 apm. it is good if you want to play just for fun.
I had razer starcraft 2 spectre which did okay job in everything but it wasn't as comfortable. and i ended up selling it, although i had it for a while and won few tournaments with it.
I am still looking for perfect mouse, i feel like i suck and can't perfom my muta micro at my best.
I would like to try logitech G203 as people recommend.
my keyboard hasn't changed Qpad MK 80. u can do just anything with that keyboard even kill a person...
although i use mostly my laptop keyboard as i am never in one place.
Conclusion
MY keyboard still works and i keep the MK80 qpad in 2019
Mouse i'd like to try logitech!
People please if you read my boring long post. recommend me good mouse for muta micro.
so i can' click ultra fast and chase mutas after muta easily
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Razer DA is a big mouse, Logitech G203 is a small mouse o.,o..
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I used a Razer Abyssus from like 2010 to 2018, and last year switched to the Logitech G Pro. I feel like both have their pros and cons and can't decide which option is better. With the abyssus I feel like I have more control - the keys require more force to press, and the mouse moves somewhat slower on the surface, its also easier to stop it moving at a particular point. With the G Pro, I'm faster, although the clicks feel less deliberate, precise. It glides more smoothly, but its harder to stop it a particular point. I feel like if I played a million years and perfected the accuracy with the G Pro it would be better, it also feels more correct. While the Abyssus feels more comfortable but when lots is happening on the screen its slow to click and move it. Can't decide, both are fun to play.
Edit: for keyboards, although I play SC2, I can for sure after using a blue switch filco from 2010 to 2018, and switching to a red switch leopold last year that the blues are fun to type with, maybe, but they are much worse for gaming for me than reds. I think inno went through the same transition.\
When it comes to mousepads I recently switched to a Razer Goliathus Speed and it feelsgoodman. Much better than some steelseries qck I had before.
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Agree that very very first Razer Abyssus is pretty good (avoid the new ones). It was not on my list but it's right next to G203/GPro/G305.
Has anybody compared MX Reds to MX Browns for Brood War? I've never tried Reds so far because of no tactility at all. I consider giving them another shot.
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Are mechanical keyboards actually good for RTSes? Does the extra actuation pressure required not fatigue your hand more?
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On August 06 2019 01:21 QuadroX wrote:
Agree that very very first Razer Abyssus is pretty good (avoid the new ones). It was not on my list but it's right next to G203/GPro/G305.
Has anybody compared MX Reds to MX Browns for Brood War? I've never tried Reds so far because of no tactility at all. I consider giving them another shot.
IDK about from browns to reds but from blues to reds was personally one of the best decisions i made when it came to gaming.
Browns will be my next purchase, i like the sound but hopefully it doesn't fatigue my fingers like blues do.
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On August 06 2019 02:04 Garrl wrote:
Are mechanical keyboards actually good for RTSes? Does the extra actuation pressure required not fatigue your hand more?
Blue's did for me. Reds are perfect for sc cause you are constantly smashing keys. Most of your gameplay is smashing keys so I think it's smartest to go with something lighter like red switches.
Noticed that blue switches were much more satisfying whenever I played first person shooters, or mmo's but like i said for sc they burnt out my fingers quick.
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On August 06 2019 01:21 QuadroX wrote:
Agree that very very first Razer Abyssus is pretty good (avoid the new ones). It was not on my list but it's right next to G203/GPro/G305.
Why are the new abyssus bad? I just got an abyssus essential to compare to my GPro.
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On August 06 2019 19:34 Gomas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2019 01:21 QuadroX wrote:
Agree that very very first Razer Abyssus is pretty good (avoid the new ones). It was not on my list but it's right next to G203/GPro/G305.
Why are the new abyssus bad? I just got an abyssus essential to compare to my GPro.
It's all subjective and personal opinion. I started hating Razer build quality since then. First line of mice were very good (mice such as Diamondback Plasma/Diamondback 3G, Krait 2006, Salmosa (except for squeakiness), very first Abyssus). Then their quality went down, mice break like in 3 months, have double click issues, software craps out and stuff like that.
Now Razer is just all about RGB crap with huge price tag for the brand. Even your mentioned Abyssus essential does have RGB lightening, requires Razer Synapse software that connects to the cloud to only let you change your DPI settings. How cool is that?
Providing it has the same build quality with better sensor (with no DPI switch without drivers for just $50) go for it. Shape looks the same.
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I can vouch on the double clicking issues with razor mice. Mine only lasted me about 3 months and already I was dealing with double clicks. I owned the diamondback, at the time i believe it was about 50 bucks for the damn thing. Disappointing to say the least especially when you are paying 50 dollars for a product.
Logitech is the way to go.
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I mentioned the Cooler Master MM710, it's coming out in like a month if you can wait for it. The shell is the same as the MasterMouse S except it's lighter and i've been told that the build quality is superior (which was a big issue w/ the old MasterMouse S).
I think it could be a good endgame mouse for Kinzu/Abyssus enthusiasts (basically small to medium range mice). Zowie S2 is another alternative but that's more of a medium range palm mouse.
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I've bought a Logitech G102 based on the recommandations here (and of course my preferences). It is a great mouse! Mouse clicks are so much better than my old one's (genius x-g500). Sound is great and also you can clearly distuingish if button was really pressed or not (by feel and sound, I guess because of the mechanical switch - I don't even feel this with my mechanical keyboard, but that is a different thing). I feel there is much lower chance of an accidental doubleclick as well. Mouse is a bit small for me but I expected that and after a few days of using it I think I'm getting used to it. Only probem for me are the buttons on the left side: because the mouse is smaller my thumb continusly touches them which is a bit annoying, but I'm also getting used to that. Great deal for about 25$. Thanks for the recommandation!
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Im rocking with CM storm Quickfire TK and a razer deathadder. they are both awesome and have them in years.
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EPT
