Download tip: Click the small green arrow that points downwards (its near the top of the post, inline with the title of the first map). Then click the 'PC' link to download the .zip file.
I didn't notice this the first time I glanced at Multiverse but depending on the spawn positions, you do or do not have the option of denying a land route to your base using the gas gates.
Yay bring on the fresh maps. Can't wait for ASL. KSL is so boring with it's mildew ridden boomer maps.
On May 02 2019 22:49 Freakling wrote: I am all for more experimental maps, but what I don't get is why basically every ASL map has to scream "extra special™".
I don't agree with that. Crazy: Taebaek, Transistor, Sparkle, Third World, Block Chain Not crazy: Overwatch, Camelot, Gold Rush, Crossing Field, Sylphid, Autobahn, Whiteout
On May 02 2019 22:49 Freakling wrote: I am all for more experimental maps, but what I don't get is why basically every ASL map has to scream "extra special™".
On May 02 2019 22:49 Freakling wrote: I am all for more experimental maps, but what I don't get is why basically every ASL map has to scream "extra special™".
My thoughts exactly. These maps look like they were trying way too hard to make them "positively crazy".
On May 02 2019 22:49 Freakling wrote: I am all for more experimental maps, but what I don't get is why basically every ASL map has to scream "extra special™".
Why not? It's reminiscent of the MSL.
not at all. these are no way near the quality of maps such as Fantasy and Fantasy II or Triathlon..
Weird maps. What's with the Python spawns on Multiverse? Tripod looks interesting if unbalanced. Could somebody explain - what's up with the ramps to the centre area, does it have a special property?
Those are semi-stacked Crashed Norrad II Battlecruisers on the centre ramps of Tripod…
Note on Multiverse: Apart from the obvious in-your-face weirdness mechanics, the triple whammy of close air spawns, mains and nats completely surrounded by cliffs and drop cliffs above the nats (very positionally imbalanced, by the way, as the minimal shooting distance to the minerals is so different) will probably make anything air-based pretty unbearable…
It's fine if there's just one funky map per season because it can just be gradually phased out and replaced until the later rounds, and its overall impact is minimal. When all the maps are funky it's just clown city. I get the appeal of watching pro players work out new builds and strategies for the weird maps, but these maps get played without any time to see if they are actually balanced and it's no fun seeing one race per matchup just resigned to get massacred. When Third World got revealed, it was a mid-season addition, and Protoss wound up with a 100% winrate versus Terran and a 73% winrate versus Zerg. The point being, even with these maps out there for analysis and professionals playing tons of practice games, if a map turns out to be horrifically imbalanced, it won't be removed because ASL just doesn't do that. Not only do these maps look imbalanced strategically, they're all positionally imbalanced by design. You want a close third gas that doesn't require you to cross a bridge or go up a reverse ramp or through a choke to defend? Better hope you get top right on Elysion! If you like having both bases cliff dropped at once, you'll love Tripod. You'll also love not being able to 2 hatch as Zerg, the only build that kept them alive vs Terran on Transistor, just to have sunken colonies as an option for defense (they can just ignore whatever natural you don't take and skirt the edge of your main base a full 360 degrees, unless you build like 15 sunken colonies).
I miss the days where maps would get pulled from tournaments for being total garbage, like when Demon's Forest got replaced because Protoss couldn't even defend 1 hatch lurker. Ironically it got replaced by Fantasy which had an equally abysmal record and has lineage to Elysion today. So far with ASL that's never happened even on the most statistically imbalanced maps. I'm not saying these maps are destined to have that same kind of imbalance, but they sure look bad, and even if they turn out to be unplayably awful, they'll just compromise the entire ASL and ride or die with these joke maps, which is bad for SC in general.
On May 03 2019 08:26 JakePlissken wrote: It's fine if there's just one funky map per season because it can just be gradually phased out and replaced until the later rounds, and its overall impact is minimal. When all the maps are funky it's just clown city. I get the appeal of watching pro players work out new builds and strategies for the weird maps, but these maps get played without any time to see if they are actually balanced and it's no fun seeing one race per matchup just resigned to get massacred. When Third World got revealed, it was a mid-season addition, and Protoss wound up with a 100% winrate versus Terran and a 73% winrate versus Zerg. The point being, even with these maps out there for analysis and professionals playing tons of practice games, if a map turns out to be horrifically imbalanced, it won't be removed because ASL just doesn't do that. Not only do these maps look imbalanced strategically, they're all positionally imbalanced by design. You want a close third gas that doesn't require you to cross a bridge or go up a reverse ramp or through a choke to defend? Better hope you get top right on Elysion! If you like having both bases cliff dropped at once, you'll love Tripod. You'll also love not being able to 2 hatch as Zerg, the only build that kept them alive vs Terran on Transistor, just to have sunken colonies as an option for defense (they can just ignore whatever natural you don't take and skirt the edge of your main base a full 360 degrees, unless you build like 15 sunken colonies).
I miss the days where maps would get pulled from tournaments for being total garbage, like when Demon's Forest got replaced because Protoss couldn't even defend 1 hatch lurker. Ironically it got replaced by Fantasy which had an equally abysmal record and has lineage to Elysion today. So far with ASL that's never happened even on the most statistically imbalanced maps. I'm not saying these maps are destined to have that same kind of imbalance, but they sure look bad, and even if they turn out to be unplayably awful, they'll just compromise the entire ASL and ride or die with these joke maps, which is bad for SC in general.
there are TL users on here that think third world is balanced because of spongame stats /elo rating its hilarious no basic understanding of TvP sure a map is balanced when Terrans have to all-in on it everytime to get a chance at victory sounds fine by me....
First two maps looking good to me. Last map is just a terrible design. 4 players map should be either symmetrical or rotating looking design(idk how to describe) like CB, ground zero are a symmetrical design map top and bottom. FS, sniper ridge, colosseum 2, lost temple, holy world SE are a rotating looking design map.
Adding: python was a good map also. Air unit distance advantage or rush distance advantage like 2 oc vs 6 oc for rush, 8 oc vs 6 oc drop and air unit rush advantage. I can see that on multiverse map.
On May 03 2019 09:15 onlystar wrote: there are TL users on here that think third world is balanced because of spongame stats /elo rating its hilarious no basic understanding of TvP sure a map is balanced when Terrans have to all-in on it everytime to get a chance at victory sounds fine by me....
I'll take sponmatch stats over Flash fanboy whining anyday, though.
On May 03 2019 09:15 onlystar wrote: there are TL users on here that think third world is balanced because of spongame stats /elo rating its hilarious no basic understanding of TvP sure a map is balanced when Terrans have to all-in on it everytime to get a chance at victory sounds fine by me....
I'll take sponmatch stats over Flash fanboy whining anyday, though.
same here
this guy still whining about Third World is actually hilarious.
I will admit that Multiverse looks like it would be a great 2v2 map, and I have a hard time believing it wasn't designed as such. It's sort of like Iron Curtain where the game would play out dramatically different if teammates spawn on the opposite sides of the wall, but potentially even more interesting than that map. In an opposite spawns situation, you could do early attacks either across the assimilators or on your own side, but once the assimilators get closed down you'd have two scrappy 1v1's until someone risks going air or drops. In same-side spawns you could still go all-in, or just rush to kill off the assimilators and take all the bases and go into a later air game.
But that's not what the map is going to be used for, so it looks like same side positions will feature rushes (look at how close those naturals are, a 28 second rush distance is crazy short) and cross spawns will be stalemate mass drop games, with Terran having a big edge by virtue of the droppable cliffs and the overabundance of skinny wall structures. Siege tanks on those center cliffs literally control the entire center of the map, including all movement across the assimilators, the center base, AND the most obvious third base locations. Seriously?
Also what's with so many of the bases only having 6 mineral patches? Multiverse has these sorry excuses for expansions all over the place, Tripod has them at those questionable middle bases. Are they trying to do the Starcraft 2 thing? Games are too long so make the bases mine out instantly?
I am not sure why BW map makers still insist on 4 players maps to be the standard for 1v1 games. Its a legacy coming from the down of BW and it should have been long gone imo.
On May 03 2019 17:58 M2 wrote: I am not sure why BW map makers still insist on 4 players maps to be the standard for 1v1 games. Its a legacy coming from the down of BW and it should have been long gone imo.
4p maps are a lot more interesting and often better balanced than 2p maps. 4p maps should definitely stay around.
On May 03 2019 17:58 M2 wrote: I am not sure why BW map makers still insist on 4 players maps to be the standard for 1v1 games. Its a legacy coming from the down of BW and it should have been long gone imo.
wtf are you even on about? You must be joking, surely..
On May 03 2019 17:58 M2 wrote: I am not sure why BW map makers still insist on 4 players maps to be the standard for 1v1 games. Its a legacy coming from the down of BW and it should have been long gone imo.
It's not the map makers but the players who chose which maps become "standard".
On May 04 2019 03:23 keit wrote: Dunno why they have to mix in so many new maps. CS:GO is fine with having mostly the same maps and just a few new ones.
It's a completely different game. BW with the same maps all the time would be super stale.
On May 04 2019 03:23 keit wrote: Dunno why they have to mix in so many new maps. CS:GO is fine with having mostly the same maps and just a few new ones.
csgo has been completely fucking ruined by its lack of maps...
Did the old korean leagues always have this many new maps compared to ASL? Surely they kept about half the maps in the map pool as old established maps right?
On May 04 2019 12:09 Alpha-NP- wrote: Did the old korean leagues always have this many new maps compared to ASL? Surely they kept about half the maps in the map pool as old established maps right?
It's probably an issue worthy of debate. The MSL usually held on to at least one map they knew was balanced. They almost always had at least 2 maps that had been in a prior MSL and therefore had statistics backing up their balance. The first MSL in 2003 had Dark Sauron and they brought that map back occasionally well into 2006. Later on there was usually a staple Fighting Spirit, Circuit Breakers, Match Point, Benzene, or Odd Eye, sometimes two.
The OSL was crazier, there was one OSL where both Hitchhiker and Neo Arkanoid were in the map pool. It also featured maps like Plasma, Fantasy, and Monty Hall. Towards the end there was usually a vanilla map like Fighting Spirit, but even the crazy seasons usually had a Python, Andromeda, or Reverse Temple.
In ASL, normally the "standard" or tested map, usually FS, CB or Match Point, is reserved for the decider game in the Ro24 and a veto-dependent option in the Ro8 onward. So basically, the most normal and balanced maps are a sideshow and the emphasis is on the new maps. It showcases the new maps in a greater number of games, which is the idea, but the standard maps don't make much of an impact.
On May 04 2019 03:23 keit wrote: Dunno why they have to mix in so many new maps. CS:GO is fine with having mostly the same maps and just a few new ones.
What a silly comparison. Without bringing up DotA and LoL, the real comparison would be WarCraft 3 and its 10(?) competitive maps in 20 years, but you have to understand why that works there and not in BW. WC3 has random item drops AND neutral heroes so every game same opponent same race match-up same map is different, while they both play around what both of them got.
Right now, with a gun to me head, I could recite every beat every ZvT Fightning Spirit game goes through. And every time I see lurker eggs on the ramp to take 3rd I am not able to be interested, because I feel I've seen it thousand times before.
On May 04 2019 03:23 keit wrote: Dunno why they have to mix in so many new maps. CS:GO is fine with having mostly the same maps and just a few new ones.
csgo has been completely fucking ruined by its lack of maps...
I totally agree. glad that they are trying something new finally.. Vertigo is a good idea. I remember playing that map in early 2000's on a 1.5 version of CS, hah..
On May 04 2019 03:23 keit wrote: Dunno why they have to mix in so many new maps. CS:GO is fine with having mostly the same maps and just a few new ones.
What a silly comparison. Without bringing up DotA and LoL, the real comparison would be WarCraft 3 and its 10(?) competitive maps in 20 years, but you have to understand why that works there and not in BW. WC3 has random item drops AND neutral heroes so every game same opponent same race match-up same map is different, while they both play around what both of them got.
Right now, with a gun to me head, I could recite every beat every ZvT Fightning Spirit game goes through. And every time I see lurker eggs on the ramp to take 3rd I am not able to be interested, because I feel I've seen it thousand times before.
I would say that WC3 has about 20 competitive maps now, but I agree with your analysis overall.
And I agree with your views on maps such as FS or CB, too. I'm ALL FOR crazier maps, we had a lot of them in BW. But these ones are just super ugly and it looks like they were trying waaayy too much to make them "positively crazy"..
anyways, I really hope that we will see Whiteout again this season. That is a very good and fresh map indeed.
Aesthetically these maps look super doll compared previous seasons but that's not big deal. Tripod kinda reminds me Transistor. I also agree that they could've used some maps from previous seasons (I want Sparkle back so bad, also Skull Desert, Camelot, Demian, Crossing Field). They got rid from Sylphid (if they won't add it as 4th) that's OK, it was average map but not that great, Toss Chain was bad, personally I would give Whiteout a 2nd chance.
Also what you think about having 5 instead of 4 maps which means no 2 repetetive maps on bo5? Sometimes it helps some races so it's good but in other hand having 5 maps makes all games more diverse and unique.
I have really high hopes for just about any lategame on Multiverse! Seems like it has a ton of potential!
Tripod kinda feels like a map which will have a lot of rush/cheese builds at first, then might evolve into rather cool manouvering as people figure things more out.
Really cool how the middle on Elysion has a lot to say for how how affected you are by where you spawn. Wonder to which extent it'll affect scouting habits, and if people will alter builds to a larger degree based on what they scout. And where they scout it. Might create a ton of different games on the very same map?
A lot of crazy stuff - hope it'll be cool, and not just turn into silly games :D
I love seeing crazy maps in starleagues. They have a chance of being hilariously imbalanced and wrecking the tournament, sure. I'd rather they take the risk than just use slightly different almost-standard maps over and over again for each season, though.
I'm fine with weird maps, but I would enjoy some old map reruns. Destination is the best map in BW history and I'm sure it would produce great games even today. Plasma too.
On May 07 2019 06:36 Eiii wrote: I love seeing crazy maps in starleagues. They have a chance of being hilariously imbalanced and wrecking the tournament, sure. I'd rather they take the risk than just use slightly different almost-standard maps over and over again for each season, though.
Hmm...
These maps have potential for some crazy, epic games, sure... but reality doesn't usually match with 'potential'. Sparkle was so cool the first couple games. Like, 'Wow, an island map!' And then every game is a ridiculously long snoozefest where some matchups are nearly impossible to win.
I don't really care that much but I don't like how Elysion has such huge differences based on where you and your opponent spawn. That shit is lame.
But at least the maps can't possibly be any more boring than block chain... right?
On May 07 2019 06:36 Eiii wrote: I love seeing crazy maps in starleagues. They have a chance of being hilariously imbalanced and wrecking the tournament, sure. I'd rather they take the risk than just use slightly different almost-standard maps over and over again for each season, though.
Hmm...
These maps have potential for some crazy, epic games, sure... but reality doesn't usually match with 'potential'. Sparkle was so cool the first couple games. Like, 'Wow, an island map!' And then every game is a ridiculously long snoozefest where some matchups are nearly impossible to win.
I don't really care that much but I don't like how Elysion has such huge differences based on where you and your opponent spawn. That shit is lame.
But at least the maps can't possibly be any more boring than block chain... right?
I mean with the new Fantasy II it's made up entirely of 4 of the most standard maps of 2010+ so wherever you spawn you should be in a decent position.
If you can defend the La Mancha, Grandline and CB third on the individual maps it shouldn't be an issue here.
The first thing that came to mind when I saw Multiverse was Python...
I miss the days where maps would get pulled from tournaments for being total garbage, like when Demon's Forest got replaced because Protoss couldn't even defend 1 hatch lurker.
On May 07 2019 09:25 r33k wrote: I'm fine with weird maps, but I would enjoy some old map reruns. Destination is the best map in BW history and I'm sure it would produce great games even today. Plasma too.
I loved Desti too, but looking back, it really did become kind of stale in just about every match-up, especially in PvT. It was just too campy.
On May 07 2019 06:36 Eiii wrote: I love seeing crazy maps in starleagues. They have a chance of being hilariously imbalanced and wrecking the tournament, sure. I'd rather they take the risk than just use slightly different almost-standard maps over and over again for each season, though.
Hmm...
These maps have potential for some crazy, epic games, sure... but reality doesn't usually match with 'potential'. Sparkle was so cool the first couple games. Like, 'Wow, an island map!' And then every game is a ridiculously long snoozefest where some matchups are nearly impossible to win.
I don't really care that much but I don't like how Elysion has such huge differences based on where you and your opponent spawn. That shit is lame.
But at least the maps can't possibly be any more boring than block chain... right?
Horrible confession: I liked the weird long snoozefest matches on sparkle. They were novel. I'm glad sparkle is gone, but I'm also glad it was in the pool for a little while.
Well, the "snoozefest" is still some exciting new and completely different meta. I'd personally like every other map pool or so to have a real island map in it because I feel that is an area where there is still lots of mostly uncharted territory to be explored, both in metagame and map design.
Looking at the first map, I wonder how will terrans deal with fast mutas when spawn positions are close. But well, terran is the most versatile race, easiest to strategize. They will find a way.
Tripod just got updated to v.0.85 Among other things mass Norad walls on Tripod have been replaced by slightly staggered Psi Disruptor walls. Multiverse has also been updated, mostly resource adjustments.
On May 02 2019 18:33 CadenZie wrote: there is a new map test tournament for testing these new maps before asl 8 that will be conducted by shine 3maps: multiverse, tripon, elysion download link: blog.naver.com winner 1million won (~$1kish) the dates are on the image here (13th Tvp, 14th ZvP, 20th TvZ, 27th final map announcement)
It will probably take a month or so or more for the qualifiers to start. There needs to be a wildcard tourney for EffOrts seed first and it will be after ACS is over
there seems to be an update of the ASL8 maps https://blog.naver.com/kangkuyol/221543273775 Multiverse - removed all 5 middle bases and changed middle with xel naga temple, changed some mineral counts, removed cliffable natural into lots of ground Tripod - change main minerals top left + bottom left to have minerals near map edge, changed middle Blockchain SE - changed mineral locations in naturals, changed center gas, reduced mineral count on 2 mineral patches of the 3rd bases, and most important changed ursadons for rhynadons
Multiverse now has complete different dynamic because middle can be reopened and way less expansions Tripod shouldnt change much Blockchain still Blockchain
Can anyone familiar with the Korean fanbase confirm if they like Blockchain more than Whiteout in general? Just seems like such a lame choice to keep it instead of Whiteout :\
Multiverse seems cool, Tripod seems like a nightmare for ZvT and PvZ with 2 entrenches that need to be covered with static defense :\
I'm pretty disappointed in the multiverse changes, letting people re-open the map really neuters its potential for having completely different style games based on spawn locations.
Tripod is a lot to swallow with the two entrances but I'd be happy to see some old school 1 base vs 2 base. Balance will probably be an issue, but I'll take entertainment over balance.
...But why the fuck did block chain get picked over Whiteout. Whiteout was one of the few maps lately where the mapmakers actually pulled off a (somewhat) novel idea, and had some really entertaining PvZ. BlockChain gave us Nada going for nukes and a good ZvZ but otherwise was underwhelming.
they saw that flash v zero game where the map was split and flash manage to secure the centre and zero had to commit a big drop to destroy it, only for his units to be trapped inside the centre area after that and be freely shelled by siege tanks (overlords were already mostly gone from irradiate). it was a great move by flash but kinda disgusting to watch from a zerg perspective.
but this new version, eh...seems like they are very enamored with the buildings in the centre gimmick to remove it over the centre mining base...
On May 23 2019 10:56 ggsimida wrote: they saw that flash v zero game where the map was split and flash manage to secure the centre and zero had to commit a big drop to destroy it, only for his units to be trapped inside the centre area after that and be freely shelled by siege tanks (overlords were already mostly gone from irradiate). it was a great move by flash but kinda disgusting to watch from a zerg perspective.
but this new version, eh...seems like they are very enamored with the buildings in the centre gimmick to remove it over the centre mining base...
Making such huge changes just because of one, crazy 50+ minute game seems like a massive overkill, actually.
Also - why the fuck would you keep Block Chain over Whiteout? I mean.. the thinking process involved with that just boggles the mind. A truly terrible choice.
On May 23 2019 10:11 oshibori_probe wrote: I'm pretty disappointed in the multiverse changes, letting people re-open the map really neuters its potential for having completely different style games based on spawn locations.
Tripod is a lot to swallow with the two entrances but I'd be happy to see some old school 1 base vs 2 base. Balance will probably be an issue, but I'll take entertainment over balance.
...But why the fuck did block chain get picked over Whiteout. Whiteout was one of the few maps lately where the mapmakers actually pulled off a (somewhat) novel idea, and had some really entertaining PvZ. BlockChain gave us Nada going for nukes and a good ZvZ but otherwise was underwhelming.
On May 27 2019 21:15 Aeternum wrote: Well looks like the current version of multiverse might be imba cross position pvt because terran can't punish 2/3 base carrier.
Multiverse kinda looks like a new take on Python to be honest...
On May 23 2019 08:14 Ideas wrote: Can anyone familiar with the Korean fanbase confirm if they like Blockchain more than Whiteout in general? Just seems like such a lame choice to keep it instead of Whiteout :\
Multiverse seems cool, Tripod seems like a nightmare for ZvT and PvZ with 2 entrenches that need to be covered with static defense :\
On May 31 2019 06:07 FakeFin wrote: But there is no wildcard qualifier. Didn't EffOrt enter the military?
I think they usually only announce it a few days before it takes place. But I imagine there'll be one.
I'm super hyped for Bo7 finals and bo3s in the ro16. From what I could translate it said the ro16 was "single board + bo3 mixed component" which suggest both bo1s and bo3s. Hopefully Winners/final match will be bo3, rest will be bo1, which I thought would be a good compromise between the formats of ASL and KSL.
Shame about no whiteout, but I don't mind sylphid again myself.
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