|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 23 2018 07:09 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2018 05:27 Ziggy wrote:On November 22 2018 22:36 zerglingling wrote:On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote:
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way. How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers) As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons. Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding.
thanks for summing up my first post on the matter
|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 23 2018 07:09 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2018 05:27 Ziggy wrote:On November 22 2018 22:36 zerglingling wrote:On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote:
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way. How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers) As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons. Calling these female streamers "C- scrubs" as a whole is very disingenuous. Several of the top players are at or above 2k MMR, in Korea. Not elite by anyones standards, but that's a massive distance away from being a C- scrub. It's damn near the top 1% of dedicated BW players.
done a bit of digging
사랑e (Protoss) - http://afreecatv.com/sr629 - 1696 mmr
꼬니부깅 (Protoss) - http://afreecatv.com/kitty1029 - 1520 mmr
또봉순 (Zerg) - http://afreecatv.com/simcheong23 - 1623 mmr
남덕선 (Zerg) - http://afreecatv.com/rnaqpdrjf - 1528 mmr
Darin - http://afreecatv.com/bijyu90 - 1777 mmr
A02)NOgg - http://afreecatv.com/byebye22 - 1851 mmr
서연지 - http://afreecatv.com/seraa - 1781 mmr
you seem to be somewhat misinformed
|
Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would.
Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes.
It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
Most importantly it's bringing more new players and interest to the game like crazy right now. Something foreigners could learn a thing or two about doing for the scene. A lot of very popular afreeca streamers whom didn't play starcraft previously or recently, have been playing games with the female players and organizing events based around them because there is a lot of hype and interest in their games. I think that's a good thing for the scene but maybe i'm crazy?
But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote:
But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
??? :D
Let me get this straight.
I said I understand Britney is doing this to expose StarCraft to a broader audience and this publicity stunt is reasonable, though I hope they do away with the streamer set in future seasons.
Then I said I'd rather see professionals get more chances to play, or at least that they invest in rookies, who actually have a chance of becoming professionals themselves at some point, so that there's actual fresh blood on the scene.
And you arrived at: you'd like to see all of that crumble into nothingness
right
|
nah, the more the better. and even if the female 1n1s were the worst ever played anywhere by anybody, the rest of the games wouldn't get worse because of their existence. so what could you have against them?
that said, they aren't and i'm impressed at how fast they are improving.
|
I just don't see the fuss and why should these matches be done away with.
Similarly, I can't agree with koget saying it's unfair or not based on skill, it's not like they have to play against Flash and it's not like they get points for afreeca subs. If you neglect your girl teammate and Cadenzie beats her every time, it's your problem.
|
United Kingdom12021 Posts
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote:
Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would.
Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes.
It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
Most importantly it's bringing more new players and interest to the game like crazy right now. Something foreigners could learn a thing or two about doing for the scene. A lot of very popular afreeca streamers whom didn't play starcraft previously or recently, have been playing games with the female players and organizing events based around them because there is a lot of hype and interest in their games. I think that's a good thing for the scene but maybe i'm crazy?
But you who puts... what exactly? into the scene, would like to see all of that crumble into nothingness. good for you.
This. 100x this. We need more events and more exposure of events for new or up and coming players and teams, not less.
|
On November 23 2018 18:53 Ziggy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2018 07:09 L_Master wrote:On November 23 2018 05:27 Ziggy wrote:On November 22 2018 22:36 zerglingling wrote:On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote:
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way. How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers) As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons. Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding. thanks for summing up my first post on the matter
If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote:
How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing?
What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made?
The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above.
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub".
Scratch golfer? What a scrub!
500lb squat? Fucking scrub.
16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub.
Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money.
Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level.
Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority.
|
On November 24 2018 01:07 [AS]Rattus wrote:
nah, the more the better. and even if the female 1n1s were the worst ever played anywhere by anybody, the rest of the games wouldn't get worse because of their existence. so what could you have against them?
that said, they aren't and i'm impressed at how fast they are improving.
I think the argument here is that given format, by definition a female match reduces the number of elite level games by top steamers. If this was a premiere tournament, I would strongly agree with them. A 2k player in ASL, KSL, or a KeSPA Proleague equivalent that hadn't qualified on merit is not something I would approve of.
However, this is an event match. It's not meant to be an elite event. It's entertainment. Being annoyed by female streamers or any other players being brought in for viewers, marketing and general inclusiveness of an event is baffling to me. It's like if I was hosting a basketball showmatch that required there be one player from the WNBA on the floor at all times for each team. It's the whole point of a fun showmatch to do something different, and it's entertaining to watch for the majority of people.
Brittany isn't including female players because he HAS to. He is including them because it's his event and he thinks it makes for a better, more entertaining event with a more solid viewer-base.
I assume those that are unhappy are those that like to watch exclusively top level KR BW. I can understand that, but everyone has different events they want to host and watch. Many people for instance enjoyed Gem League. Silly, bizzare maps, and numerous players at lower skill levels than these female BJs playing. If you don't like events like that, don't watch. Bitching about somebody hosting Gem League, contributing to the vibrancy of the scene, seems both counterproductive and a waste of time.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2018 02:49 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2018 18:53 Ziggy wrote:On November 23 2018 07:09 L_Master wrote:On November 23 2018 05:27 Ziggy wrote:On November 22 2018 22:36 zerglingling wrote:On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote:
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way. How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers) As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons. Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding. thanks for summing up my first post on the matter If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote: Show nested quote +How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? Show nested quote +What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above. Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub". Scratch golfer? What a scrub! 500lb squat? Fucking scrub. 16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub. Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money. Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level. Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority.
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d
this is my first post in the discussion
Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players)
[...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
|
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2018 02:49 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2018 18:53 Ziggy wrote:On November 23 2018 07:09 L_Master wrote:On November 23 2018 05:27 Ziggy wrote:On November 22 2018 22:36 zerglingling wrote:On October 15 2018 16:58 Ziggy wrote:
Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve. If the ranking was separate for those matches, then they would actually become a meaningless, token event and there would be no team interaction involved. It's better this way. How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? You're implying the best of the best can't improve, ie they're flawless. The skill ceiling can always be raised and that is pretty much the whole point behind the idea of teamhouses and coaches - for players to improve through interaction. What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise, not C- scrubs like them streamers) As I said, I hope MPL does well enough for Britney and Afreeca to do away with the streamer set in future seasons. Beyond that, female streamers have a huge marketing value, especially if they are somewhat well known streamers. They will draw in a variety of viewers that wouldn't otherwise be watching. Do you not think that marketing is a good tactic and good for the scene? It's good for male viewers because we know how guys react to females playing games they like...i.e. it draws them in. It's also good for female gamers to see other females on stage succeeding. thanks for summing up my first post on the matter If you posted something like what I wrote, that makes no sense because you wrote: Show nested quote +How is it better to have one shite game per match as opposed to having an extra set of actual pros playing? Show nested quote +What's the point of wasting resources on female streamers who only got into StarCraft cause there was money to be made? The answer of course being what I wrote about marketing. You seem to know this yet still posted the above. Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly). I know CadenZie has been over 2k numerous times, seems I was off a little bit off, by 100-200 MMR on some of the other players, but you just dismissed my claim doing a token investigation of stats and thinking you knew better. In any event, players like Aegong and Darin are close to 2k MMR. In Korea no less. That's around top 2-3% of serious BW players (S is defined as top 1%). In no world is someone in the top couple percent a "scrub". Scratch golfer? What a scrub! 500lb squat? Fucking scrub. 16:00 5k? Meh. Scrub. Long ways off the pros, but those are all very solid levels, and not levels you achieve just hopping in once for some views and money. Even a 1600 player is unlikely to be one jumping in just for the money. It takes at least a couple hundred hours for even a focused and talented person to reach that MMR, and for many guys they have been playing for years and are only around that level. Advocating for only high level KR BW I can get behind. Advocating for only high level KR BW by actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority. Shame they're still opting to include female streamers. I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, hope they garner enough attention to do away with that in the seasons to follow, though :d this is my first post in the discussion
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
Because in your post you said:
What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve.
From that I infer your point is the opportunity for testing the coaching abilities of the team
And the point I was making was that I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promise
Which means my second post does not contradict the first one, as I simply said I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, but am in no way behind it.
|
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:
Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players)
Agree absolutely that none of them could come remotely close to a top class player. In all honestly a Dewalt, Eon, etc. would wipe the floor with them. I'm not insisting they are top players because...they aren't. That in mind, they also aren't "C- scrubs". They are solid players, the majority in the top 1%-3% of BW skill. Any way you slice it that isn't a scrub.
CadenZie has been over 2k more often than not. She has gone almost to S rank on good runs.
As for the others you're also generally incorrect. Did you not see CadenZie's post?
It's below for reference, and strongly contradicts what you're saying:
On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote:
Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would.
Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes.
It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:
[...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
I'm not implying this, don't turn a discussion into an attack. I'm implying that you misrepresented the skill and motives of the players. Reading your post one would think you were dealing with money whoring, below average BW skill players being included. I don't think you did that because you're misogynistic and don't want women in BW. I think you phrased it that way because you are someone who wants to see primarily/exclusively top level elite BW. Its a much stronger argument against inclusion of players if they are below the 50% skill line and only in it for the money than if they are serious, long time players who are in the top couple % of BW playerbase skill level.
In fact, the argument is so much stronger that if the female players were really 1400 MMR and had only started playing BW when Brittany reached out to them, I would outright agree with you that I didn't want them there.
|
On November 24 2018 03:17 Ziggy wrote:Show nested quote +
Yes, I saw that one and thought to was very reasonable.
Then you followed it up with what I quoted, where you literally asked "what's the point of wasting resources on female streamers". That is directly at odds with your first post. No way around that.
Not sure why you're directing me to your first post when it's the content of the second post I disagreed with and was discussing.
Because in your post you said: What's wrong with testing the coaching abilities of the team? It's called a team for a reason. If the girl match is another point that could win you a series, you'll actually want this player on your team to improve.From that I infer your point is the opportunity for testing the coaching abilities of the teamAnd the point I was making was that I'd rather the competition had a rookie match, with teams coming together to inject new blood into the scene (with players who show actual promiseWhich means my second post does not contradict the first one, as I simply said I understand the idea behind the publicity stunt, but am in no way behind it.
I didn't post anything about coaching. I believe zerglingling did.
Honestly, if coaching was intended to be a significant factor of the league, I would agree with you that I'd rather see promising rookies at close to top level included over female players.
However, as a fun league with inclusiveness in mind, I think they make good sense to include. Ideally, I'd love to see an elite level teamleague with top players and a coaching component with one rookie/amateur match, but that isn't what this league is intended to be. Hopefully we will get a league like that sometime soon.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 24 2018 03:23 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:
Also I don't see how you keep insisting they're top players when I literally disproved your point by checking all of their main accounts and showing you none of them have even broken the 2k mark (and even if they had they'd still be no match against top class players) Agree absolutely that none of them could come remotely close to a top class player. In all honestly a Dewalt, Eon, etc. would wipe the floor with them. I'm not insisting they are top players because...they aren't. That in mind, they also aren't "C- scrubs". They are solid players, the majority in the top 1%-3% of BW skill. Any way you slice it that isn't a scrub.
I believe this is where the issue lies. For me one is either a top player or a hasu. I don't see the difference between a D player and an A-rank guy - neither can compete at the top.
CadenZie has been over 2k more often than not. She has gone almost to S rank on good runs. As for the others you're also generally incorrect. Did you not see CadenZie's post? It's below for reference, and strongly contradicts what you're saying: Show nested quote +On November 24 2018 00:47 CadenZie wrote:
Hmm, firstly, most of them don;t play ladder but actually 사랑e, the lowest rank in terms of spon games and such has an 1883mmr acc, and aegong has one sitting at 1935 with 12-2.
Theyre better than you think cause most foreigners wouldn't get over 2k in korea as much as they think they would.
Frankly even I often drop down to B and then back up to almost S like a yoyo its so difficult out here because every other player you face at 2k is a pro gamer on a new acc, also since we are usually streaming our ladder games the amount of pros/semi pro's trying to match into us to do funny strategies and win is kind of absurd sometimes.
It's all good fun though, just don't take the ladder ranking too seriously.
I you look closely I did not include CadenZie in my post as I'm fully aware she managed to break the 2k mark whilst playing in Korea. Anyhow, 12-2 is not a large enough pool of games to draw conclusions. One of those main accounts had ~500 games this season and the girl was a D rank. I won't bother checking again, it's beside the point.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:
[...] actively misconstruing player involvement, skill level, and effort; all of which you did, is a very dishonest argument. Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
thanks for implying im a misogynistic piece of shit! nah, I wouldn't mind having TossGirl or Aphrodite around. I do mind when people get a free pass just cause they want to be part of something. We're not in preschool, not everyone can be a winner. And I care about top end StarCraft gameplay, which none of these streamers are capable of producing.
I'm not implying this, don't turn a discussion into an attack. I'm implying that you misrepresented the skill and motived of the players. Reading your post one would think you were dealing with money whoring, below average BW skill players being included. I don't think you did that because you're misogynistic and don't want women in BW. I think you phrased it that way because you are someone who wants to see primarily/exclusively top level elite BW. Its a much stronger argument against inclusion of players if they are below the 50% skill line and only in it for the money than if they are serious, long time players who are in the top couple % of BW playerbase skill level.
In fact, the argument is so much stronger that if the female players were really 1400 MMR and had only started playing BW when Brittany reached out to them, I would outright agree with you that I didn't want them there.
I mean you did say that Your post basically implied majority of the female players were: worse than the average BW player, giving no shits about BW and just hunting for the money, and showing token involvement. From what I hear, this is true of a few of the players. It is not true for majority
All right, let's disregard the supposed financial motivation. I'd still rather have top end competition (which none of these streamers can provide) and hope Britney and Afreeca choose to do away with the streamer set in the future.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
I didn't post anything about coaching. I believe zerglingling did.
You're right, I was looking at the wrong post, sorry
|
On November 24 2018 03:34 Ziggy wrote:
All right, let's disregard the supposed financial motivation. I'd still rather have top end competition (which none of these streamers can provide) and hope Britney and Afreeca choose to do away with the streamer set in the future.
Sure. I can understand that. I personally hope events like this continue because I enjoy BW at the foreigner level or even lower, and think it's good overall for exclusivity and life. Rather than Brittany moving away from an event like this, I'd rather see this event remain and the rise of a new, elite level teamleague that would be comparable in prestige and skill to KSL/ASL.
On a personal level, I also support the inclusion of female players or leagues as they have in other sports. I think it's good top female players have a place to showcase their talent. There is basically an "LASL" already, but there aren't enough female players to truly establish a league, let alone a selective league based on elite female skill. If we reached that point, then I'd have less of an interest in a mixed format like what Britney has now, and would rather see an elite female teamleague and elite female starleague.
On November 24 2018 03:00 Ziggy wrote:
I believe this is where the issue lies. For me one is either a top player or a hasu. I don't see the difference between a D player and an A-rank guy - neither can compete at the top.
I get that. In that sense there is no difference as you say. I will say, I enjoy KR level BW a good deal more than I enjoy foreign level BW, which comparatively is still Hasu level to top KR players. That said, sounds like we differ in that I personally enjoy foreign level BW, and sometimes even lower level foreign BW depending on the game.
I think the only area I "disagree" with you on is on wanting to see Brittany's league go away. I feel those leagues have a place. I'd just rather see growth that results in a top tier teamleague as well.
|
Croatia9462 Posts
For some reason, I imagine Brittany to be a mean, but more popular sister of Britney.
|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 24 2018 04:27 L_Master wrote:
I think the only area I "disagree" with you on is on wanting to see Brittany's league go away. I feel those leagues have a place. I'd just rather see growth that results in a top tier teamleague as well.
wait, what? i never said i didnt want mpl to exist, i said id rather he simply did away with the streamer set, thats all
|
South Korea2105 Posts
On November 24 2018 02:49 L_Master wrote:
Outside of that, the rest of the stuff you wrote was more or less condescending nonsense (except about rookie progamers, where I agree with you strongly).
It has been pointed out some people took my opinion on the matter as a personal attack, which was in no way my initial intention. You can enjoy those girls' streams and I know they'll help the league garner additional attention. However, my personal preference when it comes to endeavours like MPL is that the best people get to compete as much as possible, i.e. I'm after the highest level of competition. And I think we can objectively agree that SKILLWISE the streamers in question are subpar in comparison with top end professionals, some of whom will unfortunately have to sit this season out as there's not enough room for everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
