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On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho.
So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay?
My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice.
We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
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On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post.
I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league.
If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1.
I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
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On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it.
Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
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What I'm going to suggest is that we should allow the less experienced players to cast, but it would be best if we have them cast alongside a more experienced player so they can correct things they might say in error, or point out things they might have missed etc.
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2000+ MMR isn't even that high wtf.... and also I went 11-0 or 12-0 last season, make me a player if you want, but no one on any A team is my level.
EDIT : Actually i guess i am dazed and confused still, my current MMR is like 1850 "A" rank, was thinking of last season I guess lol, but 2000+ still won't be that hard to get bro
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1. HaremMaster#1514 / Kanzaki_Ranko
2. Kanzaki_Ranko/HaremMaster#5065
3. Player
4. 1600
5. Terran/ zerg for vs Terran
6. Interested in Casting.
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1. darmation #1596
2. zaymus #3531
3. player
4. 1400
5. zerg
6. interested in casting
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1. Cronus#2404
2. Cronus#8697
3. Player
4. 1200
5. Zerg
6. I could cast/stream a few games. I'm a daily strummer.
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On August 30 2018 08:44 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it. Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
But it turns out that the CPL casting is not really a "specific educational setting" in general, especially for casting b-team games from last week. What we discovered last season was that there was plenty of A-team games that were more ripe for analysis overall than B-team games, so the B-team casting (although we still obviously discussed the game) had a little more of a fun/grudge/comedy angle to it. The response was positive. Even though it's called Coach Pupil League by name, it's also about having an organized outlet to have fun with other people your skill level.
Trust me, there is room for the educational content, and a lot that b-teamers could learn by just tuning into some A-team casts. Plus coaches made some helpful videos and build tutorials and other educational content. There is not an "official" stream per-se, just that the admins wanted to avoid casting the same game 2x just for youtube archival purposes.
and in all honesty, the high level / analytical / educational content is already out there and it's kinda super-saturated IMO.
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1. SippyCup#11696
2. SippyCup#3091
3. Player
4. 1.3-1.4
5. Protoss
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1. roegi
2. roegi
3. coach
4. ~2000
5. terran
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1. Quirinus#2835 (EU)
2. Quirinus#8320
3. Coach, preferably co-coach
4. 2100 mmr last season (EU)
5. All except ZvZ
6. Could help with LP (I'm an old editor), and maybe co-casting (because I'm not sure if my computer is good enough for actually streaming).
Used to be a coach for one of the teams of the original CPL, back in the day:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/111538-protoss-needed-for-cpl
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1. Frivolus#2461 (EU)
2. Frivolus/ Frivolus#1670
3. Player
4. 1260, but I've played just a few games, so not sure what my real mmr is
5. Terran
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On August 30 2018 08:44 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it. Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it.
Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
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On August 31 2018 11:20 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2018 08:44 Jealous wrote:On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it. Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it. Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official.
Yo long time no chat!
Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have.
Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages.
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On August 31 2018 12:52 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2018 11:20 Gorgonoth wrote:On August 30 2018 08:44 Jealous wrote:On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it. Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it. Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official. Yo long time no chat! Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have. Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages.
Yeah I think I see what your saying. I beleive for the CPL the more casual casting format is just as good because most of the casters are casting with their own teammates and there is some camaraderie there. Addidtionally there are going to be even more games per week to cast this season, and as well I think alot of the casters were pretty knowledgeable. Pisan, shoop & snipe, others as well. If we moved it to only offical like 1800+ or whatever players, we would really struggle to get the games done. But, I would be happy to post my casts here during this season and get your take.
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On August 31 2018 21:12 Gorgonoth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2018 12:52 Jealous wrote:On August 31 2018 11:20 Gorgonoth wrote:On August 30 2018 08:44 Jealous wrote:On August 30 2018 08:03 Chessz wrote:On August 30 2018 02:47 Jealous wrote:On August 28 2018 05:16 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 11:32 Jealous wrote:On August 27 2018 09:47 SchAmToo wrote:On August 27 2018 03:03 lazersnipe wrote:
That said we seem to have A LOT of interest in casting this season so far based on sign-ups. If everyone who's interested in casting does cast, there may not be enough games played for everyone to cast every week.
imho, it may be best to not even consider who's casted what or not. It may be best to just let people cast whatever. Depends on what the league's goals are IMO. If it's education, then letting someone who is like 1000 MMR cast would be counterproductive. If it's community-building and inclusion, I'd say that you could just publicize all of the replays and make it a first-come first-serve system on Google sheets. If casting is not a crucial element to the league outside of finals, then just provide weekly rep packs and let the people do whatever they want. However, I do think there is something demotivational about not having a dedicated channel for CPL casts, or casting a game that others have already casted and thus you are not likely to get many viewers, etc. Multi-faceted issue for sure. If the CPL is for learning, then let people cast whatever they want. I learn way more casting than I do in most other situations. A 1000mmr person casting isn't where you should be getting your learnings from. It should be the coach. And why stop with just learning Brood War, if someone wants to cast and ask for feedback, I'll give it to them. Also, if you're casting for views or caring about that then I think thats the wrong idea for casting in general, especially for new casters. New casters won't get views for months until they get comfy with casting. Cast whatever comes your way, imho. So why don't these 1000 MMR people cast games right now, from their own replays or from pro replays? They don't need a league at all to cast replays and learn from the experience. Also, what is it about casting that makes you learn more than from just watching the replay? My point is that if you're having designated casters for a learning league, ideally they should be on the level of the coaches or thereabout, particularly in terms of game knowledge, so that they can be learning tools and perhaps point out things that the coach may not notice. We're on the same page concerning the rest of your post. I'm a B-team noob and B-team caster. Yes learning happens while casting, basically the same as just watching replays. But sometimes a cast is more about just having fun with the game we all love. It's fun for everyone to have their moment or see their name in lights, and build storylines in the league. If a person really wants a deep dive into their mistakes and getting feedback, they can go over it with coaches 1 on 1. I don't cast for viewers or for trying to educate or anything (if those are latent effects, cool) I just try to spread love and enjoy the game with people who also enjoy it. Just to clarify, I'm not arguing against anyone's right to cast games, I'm arguing that having a more experienced player as a caster makes more sense in this specific educational setting, and I haven't really seen a counterargument to this point. If you look back to my first post in this chain, you will see that I think it depends on what the organizational goals for the league are, and that your approach is certainly covered by one of the options. Fun is always a necessity for staying involved in games and participating in community efforts such as this, I am not denying that. With such an abundance of people who say they are interested in casting, it's quite possible that there could be multiple casts for one game, depending on how its managed, but again, I am of the opinion that it makes the most sense to have the "official" stream (if this is still a thing) for the league to have the best players available to commentate it. Im curious Jealous, did you watch the casting from season 2? Are you saying this from being dissatisfied with what happened? Originally it wasn't likely that every game was gonna be casted at all. The casters the came together to cast every single game, did a fantastic job ( full disclosure I casted as well) provding a fun cast, while also weighing in with advice and more analysis when possible. I think it was a great system and dont see the need to make anything official. Yo long time no chat! Yes, I caught a few games but I doubt I saw every caster that worked on CPL2. I wouldn't say I was dissatisfied because I took them at face value without any real expectations for them to follow any philosophical approach I may have. Again, I'm not saying this to shit on low level players or casters. I've tried to make that clear but if it wasn't then I apologize. I'm simply making the argument that one alternative may be better than the other in this context, and I feel this makes sense to discuss now, when the league is in its formative stages. Yeah I think I see what your saying. I beleive for the CPL the more casual casting format is just as good because most of the casters are casting with their own teammates and there is some camaraderie there. Addidtionally there are going to be even more games per week to cast this season, and as well I think alot of the casters were pretty knowledgeable. Pisan, shoop & snipe, others as well. If we moved it to only offical like 1800+ or whatever players, we would really struggle to get the games done. But, I would be happy to post my casts here during this season and get your take.
Like I said, it depends on the goal of the league. If it is to get all the games casted, and there are not enough 1800+ casters willing, then obviously casual casting is the solution.
Beyond the discrepancy in educational content, you also run the risk of spreading misinformation - which is a disservice to the players and viewers who are actively trying to learn. Now, all casters are guilty of this at some point, that's unavoidable because we are all human and make mistakes. I remember that I made a relatively obvious blunder in a cast in Season 1 and thankfully it was pointed out to me in chat, so I'm not trying to sound like I'm on some high horse of perfect casting. However, it seems likely that lower level casters will make more errors when they try to reach for knowledge they may not be sure of, or if they say something they think is true but actually is not. I liked the solution proposed by another poster in this thread, which is having a low level caster and a high level caster on one broadcast. That seems like a great way to correct errors and to have mini-Q&A during the cast.
Also, I forgot to address the benefits of having an "official" and consistent cast - they can appear on the calendar in a consistent format which attracts more viewers week in and week out. I'm not saying that viewership should be a goal for the casters. I'm saying it because this is a community learning league and the more people it reaches, the more beneficial it is to the community IMO. From what I can tell, CPL has grown every season in terms of sign-ups, and I think community outreach is a major proponent of that.
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1) ScYthePhD #1109
2) ScYthe PhD #3340
3) Player
4) Have not played ranked. Probably at a D level?
5) Protoss
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1) Alwayslose #11984 (US West)
2) Alwayslose.
3) Player
4) Terran
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Just wanted to make a note for league admins, I already made a sign-up post on page 5 of this thread, but I have since submitted a username change request to TL. Just noting this here to avoid any confusion down the line. I've also changed my Discord ID to match my new TL username/the name I will use to play (but not my battle.net account) to avoid confusion. Will edit my original sign-up post with my new Discord ID. Hopefully that's not a problem.
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EPT
