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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:05 itsjustatank wrote: bw is already a noobified game who cares if you can rebind hotkeys That's retcon of a straw man that even the pro-MBS people never made during all the MBS debates. Even back then, the MBS people, who were clearly proven wrong, had enough sense to not make that straw man. Why make it in 2017? | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On April 21 2017 01:45 mishimaBeef wrote: For starters, "Suck" and "Lazy" is relative. We could have a guy that is partially handicapped in his left arm but compared to others with his condition he is a God at Starcraft. Thus, he does not "simply suck" unless you compare him to people who are physically fit. Do B- players "suck"? Compared to Flash maybe, compared to others definitely no. Second, he may be the most hardest working person on the planet relative to his functional abilities, so he is not "too lazy". Therefore, he doesn't fall into one of the two categories presented: 1) too lazy to learn, 2) simply suck. And that my friends, we call a false dichotomy. The scope is to play the game with original hotkeys. If someone is a hard worker, has 18 hour shift, that person certainly isn't lazy. But that is outside of the scope. The point, inside the scope, is that the person does not want to go through the trouble of learning the hotkeys. That means he is lazy about learning hotkeys. | ||
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CobaltBlu
United States919 Posts
On April 21 2017 01:55 Biolunar wrote: + Show Spoiler + According to those idiots in this thread I’m a cheater, I happily admit that. Let’s have a look at my keyboard: ![[image loading]](http://neo-layout.org/grafik/flat/tastatur_e1.png) This is literally what my keyboard looks like. Ohh you guys, you caught me! I’m cheating because my <P> is so easily accessible! Shame on me. Seriously fuck off. I’m tired of your narrow minded shit opinions that rebindable keys are cheating. You asked whether or not people would consider binding keys to your mouse cheating. That is a fundamentally different question than having a different keyboard layout or rebindable hotkeys. Personally I'm okay with rebinding keyboard hotkeys but rebinding mouse keys would almost certainly be tournament illegal which is why I would consider it cheating. The reality is that at your own PC no one can stop you from doing this and you probably aren't good enough for it to make a difference anyway. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:06 Eridanus wrote: Which one do you think it is, because clearly you think it is either of those. I can't believe you are saying that a handicapped person 'simply sucks' or is 'too lazy'. That's offensive. Ah, okay so you agree with me that it was a false dichotomy. Cool. | ||
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:09 mishimaBeef wrote: Ah, okay so you agree with me that it was a false dichotomy. Cool. No. Where is your third option? I am merely pointing out you just said yourself that you think a handicapped person must either be 'simply bad' or 'too lazy'. Now I disagree with that, but not because I have a third option. I don't think it is a false dichotomy. You need a third option to not be offensive. That is your position. So what is it? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Simple question: Do you think instead of pressing "p" for building a probe the game would be even better if it was a key on the numpad? That surely would take even more skill right? Isn't that the whole argument of your side? It takes skill and it was always like that => people wanting change are the enemy. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:11 Eridanus wrote: No. Where is your third option? I am merely pointing out you just said yourself that you think a handicapped person must either be 'simply bad' or 'too lazy'. Now I disagree with that, but not because I have a third option. You need a third option to not be offensive. That is your position. So what is it? Dude, I didn't offer the two options, fabiano did. Go back and read. If you disagree that it was a false dichotomy, then you must be able to place everyone in one of the two categories. So, place the handicapped person I presented in one of the two categories. Can't? Then it's a false dichotomy. | ||
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:12 mishimaBeef wrote: Dude, I didn't offer the two options, fabiano did. Go back and read. Your argument is that there are more than two. Then all your examples fit in with either one. Go back and read (which you never do). I think there are two categories. I would label them differently. And I maintain they fit in with either one. But that is not your problem with Fabiano. You don't think it is offensive. You think it is a false dichotomy. | ||
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Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:05 itsjustatank wrote: bw is already a noobified game who cares if you can rebind hotkeys hahahah thats fucken hilarious! increased by 33% thats like 100% holy shit thats so good | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:13 Eridanus wrote: Your argument is that there are more than two. Then all your examples fit in with either one. Go back and read (which you never do). Don't even know what that means. The gist of what fabiano said that people who dislike hotekys are either 1) too lazy to learn or 2) simply suck. Then I present a handicapped person's case. For some reason you ask where is the third option. That's what I want to know! That's why it's a false dichotomy! edit; sorry just saw mod request. going to do other things. | ||
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IPS.Blue
Germany309 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:05 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think it is cheating if you remove the "f1" key on your keyboard. Makes the game easier to play, i would ban every single player who does this, probably for a lifetime I fear your answer might be «yes», but I just have to ask. My other keyboard besides the binary one has the «Esc» key directly left of the key for «1». So I did not even have to remove the «F1» key in order to gain an unfair advantage, all I had to do was to spend $340.00 for a Happy Hacking Professional 2 Type-S. Did I unknowingly cheat by using this keyboard? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:20 blueslobster wrote: I fear your answer might be «yes», but I just have to ask. My other keyboard besides the binary one has the «Esc» key directly left of the key for «1». So I did not even have to remove the «F1» key in order to gain an unfair advantage, all I had to do was to spend $340.00 for a Happy Hacking Professional 2 Type-S. Did I unknowingly cheat by using this keyboard? I was actually not serious at all, i think the whole discussion is ridiculous because at the end of the day you need the same amount of actions anyway. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
But I would bet the vast majority of the player base have no disability, so arguing custom hotkeys are a must so the game can be playable is just plain wrong. Again, almost no one is against hotkeys. I am not against custom hotkeys. What I defend is that if you dont want to play the game with the original settings and Blizzard dont want to implement it, just move on and stop shitting here with nonsensical demands... Edit: ok, enough of this.. | ||
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Bengalaas!!
15 Posts
On April 21 2017 01:39 B-royal wrote: You can't use mice with additional buttons, seems pretty obvious to me. Do you think it would be allowed in a tournament? If not, it's considered an unfair advantage or cheating. I don't know if it's allowed in a tournament so it's not obvious to me. also, like i said before, the majority(?), seem to believe that mouse with extra buttons isn't cheating so I don't know. in order to get back to thread topic i would REALLY like if observers had an ally chat option while obsing. it's annoying that in order to talk to the other obs in the game I have to whisper them. | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
"It is a win-win to implement an option for Custom or Classic hotkeys at the server or game host level. This way, you get a larger player base and as well maintain the classic competition." Anyone doesn't? | ||
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:19 mishimaBeef wrote: Don't even know what that means. You have shown to not be able to understand concepts like 'concept', 'reality', 'perception', etc etc. The gist of what fabiano said that people who dislike hotekys are either 1) too lazy to learn or 2) simply suck. Then I present a handicapped person's case. You don't think it is offensive to label someone as either 'too lazy' or 'simply sucking'? Apparently not. For some reason you ask where is the third option. For some reason? And you just accused me of not knowing what a false dichotomy is? That's what I want to know! That's why it's a false dichotomy! Ok? So you agree? I am so confused. It just seemed like you were claiming I first made the claim about a third option. I ask you for your third option, because apparently you think there is one. So I ask you what it is. And you haven't answered so far, but maintain it is a false dichotomy (meaning you have at least a third option).. edit; sorry just saw mod request. going to do other things. Coward. If your posts are so good, don't stop posting when a mod is around. Otherwise, post at higher quality, always. Mod or no mod. So please stop posting all these stupid posts you yourself apparently think are low quality. User was warned for this post | ||
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mishimaBeef
Canada2259 Posts
Fine, he gets his false dichotomy to work at the cost of labelling handicapped people as "simply suck". So be it. | ||
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RedW4rr10r
Switzerland749 Posts
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Eridanus
United States75 Posts
On April 21 2017 02:27 mishimaBeef wrote: 3rd option is handicapped persons. Of course I think there should be a third option or else I wouldn't have claimed it to be a false dichotomy. See even fabiano had to maintain his structure and put the handicapped persons into the category of "simply suck". Fine, he gets his false dichotomy to work at the cost of labelling handicapped people as "simply suck". So be it. A handicapped person would be the principal example of someone being able to not able to do something, despite the willingness to put in the effort to learn something. That a blind person cannot see has nothing to do with their unwillingness to learn how to see things. I don't see how that went over your head all that time. In the end we all end up not learning most things amazing people do because the lack of our innate talent to 'almost immediately' do something makes the time investment to learn it way too big, as our time is a limited resource. Now for hotkeys, simply using them at 50 apm level, which Kwark has shown can get you to, what was it B+, on iccup, is not that hard to learn if you are a gamer willing to play a few games each week, assuming a person with normal talent and no disabilities. Now, I wouldn't underestimate the ability of handicapped people. Remember that game that Boxer played vs a completely blind person? Same for people with missing fingers or limited fine motor control. They can learn hotkeys and beat Kwark, if they wanted to and if their handicap wasn't too severe. And I doubt most people now complaining about hotkeys have those real handicaps. | ||
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