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IMKR
United States378 Posts
what is the most often used methods for Protoss and Zerg for broodwar hotkey set up? I am practicing since 2 days ago and i really cant get hotkeys down. I had them on lock in SC2 (i quit sc2 right before HOTS came out though) and got to mid-low masters as Toss before i quit/before HOTS. but with BW, I find myself not even hotkeying units onto ctrl groups because because its hard to not double bind them. | ||
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probelife66
142 Posts
Good luck | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On March 29 2017 08:39 probelife66 wrote: Google day 9 broodwar mechanics podcast. That will answer all your questions exactly what your asking. It will shave years off your development if you listen to him. For example don't use your thumb for control, use your left pinky instead. Good luck Who the fuck uses thumb for control LOL That's a first for me Hotkeying is an art, check zimp's replay thread for pro reps of you race, some of them have the hotkeys enabled for 1 player (just press some numbers at the start and you'll see) | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6832 Posts
On March 29 2017 09:06 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: Who the fuck uses thumb for control LOL That's a first for me Hotkeying is an art, check zimp's replay thread for pro reps of you race, some of them have the hotkeys enabled for 1 player (just press some numbers at the start and you'll see) | ||
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duke91
Germany1458 Posts
always knew you were weird | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
For zerg 1-4 units, 5-0 hatcheries is a common set up. ZvT: Early game: 1-2-3 zergling groups Mid game: 1 mutalisks, 2 zerglings, 3 zerglings, 4 lurkers End game: Whatever really. You can hotkey defilers/zergling groups. lurkers, scourge,... Hotkeys are very dynamic suited for the very moment you're in. ZvP: Early game: 1-2-3 zerglings Mid game: 1-2-3-4 hydralisks, possibly lurkers on 4. If you have mutalisks, on 1. Late game: Same as versus terran. | ||
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KameZerg
Sweden1769 Posts
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
On March 29 2017 09:10 B-royal wrote: I use flesh of my hand for the left control key and 7-0 I assign with the right control key (thumb). For zerg 1-4 units, 5-0 hatcheries is a common set up. ZvT: Early game: 1-2-3 zergling groups Mid game: 1 mutalisks, 2 zerglings, 3 zerglings, 4 lurkers End game: Whatever really. You can hotkey defilers/zergling groups. lurkers, scourge,... Hotkeys are very dynamic suited for the very moment you're in. ZvP: Early game: 1-2-3 zerglings Mid game: 1-2-3-4 hydralisks, possibly lurkers on 4. If you have mutalisks, on 1. Late game: Same as versus terran. how do you deal with the fact that you can't highlight specific units in a bunch? thats what screws up my hotkeys. the first group is easy, because you double click or box and go ctrl 1. after that, if they somehow get mixed in with a group of un hotkeyed units, you have to move away the group 1 units away before boxing 2nd bunch to a new hotkey. this isnt hard if its only around 24-36 units, but it becomse a mess later on.... this is the major reason i never truly picked up BW back when i was a kid. it was just to much work for a kid to bother with. | ||
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probelife66
142 Posts
If you want to make an entirely new group you can hold control then click on a single unit and it will select a full control group of units of that type without having to select a box around them. I hope this helps you. Check out the mechanics podcast I told you about. P.S when I said pinky it's more like keeping it straight and pushing down the conrol key almost with the side of your hand. Screen shot would be easier than me explaining. | ||
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JungleTerrain
Chile799 Posts
On March 29 2017 09:18 IMKR wrote: how do you deal with the fact that you can't highlight specific units in a bunch? thats what screws up my hotkeys. the first group is easy, because you double click or box and go ctrl 1. after that, if they somehow get mixed in with a group of un hotkeyed units, you have to move away the group 1 units away before boxing 2nd bunch to a new hotkey. this isnt hard if its only around 24-36 units, but it becomse a mess later on.... this is the major reason i never truly picked up BW back when i was a kid. it was just to much work for a kid to bother with. Yeah this can get to be a problem but it's pretty essential for late game to learn how to preserve your army hot keys. For Terran it is important to have tanks and vultures in their own hotkeys or else they cannot siege/unsiege or place mines if grouped up with other units. Some tricks to help manage unit selection, some people don't know these: Did you know that you can select up to 12 of a single type of unit if you hold Ctrl while you select a unit? For example, hold ctrl and press on a siege tank, it will select up to 11 other siege tanks as well. It's the same as double-clicking on a unit. Using shift to deselect units is also useful. Say you have 12 units selected. 11 tanks and 1 vulture for example. If you hold shift and click on the vulture, it deselects it from the group and you have 11 tanks left selected, which now can be sieged together because the siege command comes up. You can deselect by clicking on the actual unit in the game or by selecting its green portrait below. Now say you selected a mix of units, say 6 tanks and 6 vultures. If you hold Crtrl while clicking on the tanks, it will deselect all units except tanks. Or other way around, if you only want the vultures, hold ctrl and click on a vulture in the green portrait below and you are now left selecting only vultures, able to use spider mines now. Don't remember if there are other things like that, but little things like that make army management a little easier. | ||
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
On March 29 2017 09:42 probelife66 wrote: That's why your press 1 to hotkey to select current units then hold down shift and box new units into that existing group then hit control + 1 to re save group now with new units added to it. If you want to make an entirely new group you can hold control then click on a single unit and it will select a full control group of units of that type without having to select a box around them. I hope this helps you. Check out the mechanics podcast I told you about. P.S when I said pinky it's more like keeping it straight and pushing down the conrol key almost with the side of your hand. Screen shot would be easier than me explaining. no offense, but you're telling me the basics of hotkey management. like i mentiond, i was mid/low masters in sc2. i know the basics of hotkeys. (adding/removing singles, etc etc) thats not what im asking help on, but tips and tricks on mass units hotkey perserving. i.e. i have 36 zealots all unhotkeyed mixed in with 7 dragoons. whats the most efficient way to have 12 zealots each on 1-3 and all dragoons on 4 w/o having to split each grouped army out of the way bceause if you box or doubleclick, its random and i dont want the same units on multiple hotkeys. | ||
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
On March 29 2017 10:08 JungleTerrain wrote: For Terran it is important to have tanks and vultures in their own hotkeys or else they cannot siege/unsiege or place mines if grouped up with other units. thats a good example i can use to get help on one of the questions i am asking. lets say i have rines, tanks, and vultures all mixed in an area. none hotkeyed. and lets say i have 24 rines, 14 tanks, 13 vultures. the way i would do it (because i dont nkow any other efficient method) would be to ctrl click a rine, hot key to 1, move them out of vision so when i ctrl click another rine, i can put the next 12 into a new group that WASNT in group 1. same with the tanks. but doing this in a army will take way to many APM as well as wait time. (cuz you have to wait/move screen away from an army that is already hotkeyed so it doesnt get doubled hotkeyed) | ||
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probelife66
142 Posts
On March 29 2017 10:18 IMKR wrote: no offense, but you're telling me the basics of hotkey management. like i mentiond, i was mid/low masters in sc2. i know the basics of hotkeys. (adding/removing singles, etc etc) thats not what im asking help on, but tips and tricks on mass units hotkey perserving. i.e. i have 36 zealots all unhotkeyed mixed in with 7 dragoons. whats the most efficient way to have 12 zealots each on 1-3 and all dragoons on 4 w/o having to split each grouped army out of the way bceause if you box or doubleclick, its random and i dont want the same units on multiple hotkeys. I don't think there is anyway to do that easily. You can hotkey them into the group before they clump up unhotkeyed or you can seperate the units so you can create the group's. I know what you mean though.. really hard with Terran especially. P.s I was telling you basics because your question about hotkey setup is basic to be honest. Maybe your a pro who doesn't know how to do that one thing efficiently. My bad. | ||
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
On March 29 2017 10:51 probelife66 wrote: I don't think there is anyway to do that easily. You can hotkey them into the group before they clump up unhotkeyed or you can seperate the units so you can create the group's. I know what you mean though.. really hard with Terran especially. P.s I was telling you basics because your question about hotkey setup is basic to be honest. Maybe your a pro who doesn't know how to do that one thing efficiently. My bad. my question was more about BW hotkey set up people uses. i found one for T and somewhat for Z, but none for P. Sure i can do what works for me, but i prefer to have some foundation and work around to see what fits me. for example, what i am messing around with right now is F4 = main F3 = Nat F2 = units rally point 5= main nexus 4= gateway mid game its somewhat the same, late game main nexus is set to nothing (use F4 instead) gateway is set to 0 reavers/airship guy is set to 8&9 generic units on 1-3 special units on 4 (HT) other less micro needed special units on 7 (DTs) but personally, that is still to much moving around. so wondering others Toss setups haha | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
When you're hotkeying the units in your rally you can just make small boxes with them mixed up. Having all your HTs hotkeyed to a specific hotkey won't help micro because you have to select each one to storm, so who cares which group they are. It's better to have separate groups but realistically doesn't happen most of the time. It's more important to have your gates hotkeyed early/mid. Once you have too many F keys are the way to go. A technique that I know, even tho I don't use in real games, is to hotkey the special units first and tell them to move away. So if you have 20 zealots and 5 goons you can just tell the goons to get away and box the zealots. Another thing is that there's no problem having a unit in 2 groups, as long as you don't have too many dupes it just happens. It's only a problem if you need to cast a spell from the group (like stimpack). | ||
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IMKR
United States378 Posts
On March 29 2017 11:16 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: Most pros don't hotkey like that, it's too convoluted. Unlike SC2 there's a lot of trading in BW and you'll go insane if you hotkey like that. Think of it in a more task-based sense: is this task important right now? If yes hotkey, if not leave the units be. Use the minimap for everything else. ah ok. i had the sense that pros hotkey everything haha On March 29 2017 11:16 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: When you're hotkeying the units in your rally you can just make small boxes with them mixed up. Having all your HTs hotkeyed to a specific hotkey won't help micro because you have to select each one to storm, so who cares which group they are. It's better to have separate groups but realistically doesn't happen most of the time. It's more important to have your gates hotkeyed early/mid. Once you have too many F keys are the way to go. . but the reason why i like having HT's in 1 group is because then i can click on any of its portrait w/o having to look at it to make sure its not a zealot, or goon or DT, etc etc i can just click any of the portrait and it'll be a HT 100% of the time. also, what do you do with function keys late game? do you use them at all for nat/mains? or only for production sites? | ||
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probelife66
142 Posts
For all hotkey related info I told you where to find that twice I'm not sure why your still talking about it. | ||
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rand0MPrecisi0n
313 Posts
On March 29 2017 11:24 IMKR wrote: ah ok. i had the sense that pros hotkey everything haha but the reason why i like having HT's in 1 group is because then i can click on any of its portrait w/o having to look at it to make sure its not a zealot, or goon or DT, etc etc i can just click any of the portrait and it'll be a HT 100% of the time. also, what do you do with function keys late game? do you use them at all for nat/mains? or only for production sites? What you described is not a practice you wanna cultivate, at least not for HTs. If you do that there's a chance your selected HT is at the back of the army and ends up storming your own units (if they move forward), or just waste a storm. You really wanna be looking at the fight. Some pros do, however, hotkey key units in a small skirmish, for example if they have a defiler, 2 lurkers and some lings they wanna attack a base, they'll hotkey the defiler separetely, a-move everything and then use the hotkey to swarm. In the case of cloning with vessels or scourge, you do wanna have a separate group though. Like I said you should go to zimp's replay thread and dl some pro replays to see how they hotkey as the game progress. It's the best way I know of learning and you'll have all your questions answered (except F keys I guess). As far as F keys go, Flash usually uses one for each base and swap later in the game to production/rally. I can't talk about that too much because it's a harder matter to research. Great amateurs like Scan and Icarus use main/nat/some use 3rd in the early game and swap to production/rally much earlier than the top pros, some go for the rally point straight away, so maybe that's more attainable for most people. Take it with a grain of salt tho, as there's no way to really know what they have unless you watch FPVods in slow-mo and guess, or ask | ||
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Poly_Optimize
Canada156 Posts
wow did you play piano when you were a kid? I must be the worst player to set hotkeys... First i dont use my pinky to press on control. I use my thumb and I dont do it eon's way, i rotate my hand 90 degree to do it. Second, I sometimes use both hands to set hotkey (#8-#9-#0). | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6832 Posts
On March 30 2017 08:49 Poly_Optimize wrote: wow did you play piano when you were a kid? I must be the worst player to set hotkeys... First i dont use my pinky to press on control. I use my thumb and I dont do it eon's way, i rotate my hand 90 degree to do it. Second, I sometimes use both hands to set hotkey (#8-#9-#0). i did play the drums.no i never did play piano,had a friend that his father repair pianos,but yeah it wasnt my thing :D | ||
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probelife66
142 Posts
[QUOTE]On March 30 2017 08:49 Poly_Optimize wrote: [QUOTE]On March 29 2017 09:08 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: [QUOTE]On March 29 2017 09:06 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote: [QUOTE]On March 29 2017 08:39 probelife66 wrote: Google day 9 broodwar mechanics podcast. That will answer all your questions exactly what your asking. It will shave years off your development if you listen to him. For example don't use your thumb for control, use your left pinky instead. Good luck [/QUOTE] Who the fuck uses thumb for control LOL That's a first for me Hotkeying is an art, check zimp's replay thread for pro reps of you race, some of them have the hotkeys enabled for 1 player (just press some numbers at the start and you'll see)[/QUOTE] [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3zt4Syzzac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3zt4Syzzac[/url][/QUOTE] wow did you play piano when you were a kid? I must be the worst player to set hotkeys... First i dont use my pinky to press on control. I use my thumb and I dont do it eon's way, i rotate my hand 90 degree to do it. Second, I sometimes use both hands to set hotkey (#8-#9-#0). [/QUOTE] No I retrained myself after using my thumb for years. I learned pre day 9 tips .. I used to zoom in on pro you tube videos artosis made in the estro house and found out.. you almost flatten your palm/base of pinky down on the key which leaves your fingers straight ergonomically. Watch bw mechanics podcast it will change your game. Amazing tips and time saving. | ||
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