As many will recall, there was a huge hype around the ideal of a remasters Brood War game getting announced at last weekend's Blizzcon event held in California. Additionally there was suggestions that other Blizzard titles where up for a remake too.
I am made sad by the passing of this years blizzcon event with out the aforementioned announcement. This resonates a deep feeling of longing for the ageing title. Brood War is strong still and some would say is out pacing SC2 in growth at a Pro level.
Brood War's success has spurn communities to create there own version "brood war HD". SC2 has seen Arcade mods such as SC2BW and Starbow. Both of which as seen years of development. All in a effort to recreate the micro and unit interactions found in Brood war's game engine.
Now, As we seek to sate our collective hunger for an updated Brood War, more people peek into the strange world of SC2 Arcade remakes of our beloved Brood War. There exist many options. For example SC2BW allows for almost all of Brood war's UI and unit AI to be experienced. Where as Starbow attempts to balance a Brood War retrofitted into SC2 like fetchers of unlimited unit selection and smart casting. Starbow seems to take this a step further. The Mod calls its self and expiation to brood war with each race seeing 1 or 2 new [niche] units.
Overall, Though I will keep my self occupied with SC2 mods and Brood War ladders, part of my still hopes Blizzard is quietly developing the New Brood War HD.
Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
This was posted before and most likely also led to the blog articles; Blizzard basically already announced that they're remaking BW.
But since these job offerings aren't there for very long and still open, this really will take a while. Lets hope until next Blizzcon they will have something to show and talk about.
I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
I don't know if you would consider me a reputable source, but I am pretty sure BW HD is coming. And it's not coming from Blizzard...
I know they straight-up went on the record at Blizzcon to say that they're NOT remaking Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2, but hopefully Diablo 2, Brood War, and Warcraft 3 remasters aren't off the table just yet.
I said it in the beginning and ill say it again as i think people shouldnt get their hopes up for some recent announcement or release and that is that its going to ATLEAST be another 2-3 years before we get any official announcement. They are working on 3 titles side by side and developing/modernizing the games is only one aspect to the revitilization of their older titles. It wouldnt suprise me if they are still in planning mode.
There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Rumor turned out to be rumor, community disappointed. I still contend that little changes have big effects and even having a modern resolution in competitive play would change the game. We don't want the game to change.
On November 08 2016 08:41 eviltomahawk wrote: I know they straight-up went on the record at Blizzcon to say that they're NOT remaking Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2, but hopefully Diablo 2, Brood War, and Warcraft 3 remasters aren't off the table just yet.
Didn't they explicitly say at Blizzcon they're remaking Diablo 1 in the D3 engine?
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Ok. Let me try again: "I hereby announce BW HD!"
better?
fuck no.
we don't need another BW HD thread, most of the discussion was done to death, unless anything new is announced we'd be going in circle.
Ok, I don't know if I should give up or try one last time, veeeeeeery explicitly: Brood Wars has been nearly completely reverse-engineered. The game engine basically works (including original path-finding). The image you see at the following link is NOT from Blizzards Brood Wars. It's from a program written by a member of the BW AI Bot community: http://i.imgur.com/rdEcBYM.jpg
Since we have source code available, there are virtually no limitations. - You can run it in linux - You could potentially mod it - ... - You can provide HD sprites and given I find some talent in the community that's exactly what's going to happen
PS: Yes, the game play is 1:1 BW, including all bugs
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
Ok, I surrender.
I'm not telling you to give up, just give us more substantial stuff than a widescreen mod.
On November 08 2016 13:28 Probe1 wrote: Rumor turned out to be rumor, community disappointed. I still contend that little changes have big effects and even having a modern resolution in competitive play would change the game. We don't want the game to change.
On November 08 2016 08:41 eviltomahawk wrote: I know they straight-up went on the record at Blizzcon to say that they're NOT remaking Warcraft 1 and Warcraft 2, but hopefully Diablo 2, Brood War, and Warcraft 3 remasters aren't off the table just yet.
Didn't they explicitly say at Blizzcon they're remaking Diablo 1 in the D3 engine?
That kinda puts doubt on D2 remakes.
Considering the sheer variety of content in D2, I don't think it was ever going to be viable to remake it in the same way that they're kinda remaking D1 in the D3 engine. However, I still think it's possible that Blizzard still might want to port a set of legacy games to be compatible with Battle.net client. Warcraft 3 background images were datamined from the client a few years ago, yet nothing has come out for it just yet, and of course we still have the job postings.
On November 08 2016 16:11 )aguar wrote: Look. Blizzard is a company earning money. They get any money from remastered of old games? I think no. Why they should make any remaster?
A bunch of other games being recently remastered says there is money in doing that
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
I don't think you guys should get to make the call on when to close a thread just because it has been 'discussed to death'. As long as people still want to discuss it, they should be free to do this. This is the BW forum. Also your statement is contradictory, because if it were discussed to death then new threads wouldn't pop up. Stop trying to silence people plz and let them decide when it's actually discussed to death.
Also, if you guys don't have something new to bring to the discussion, please refrain from bringing the negativity.
@imp that is actually really interesting. It will probably be shut down instantly by blizzard though, but I'm more interested how long did it take to get to this stage, and how long would it take to successfully actually make a BW re-make you think? I really doubt the previous statements that it would take years, if all the source material is available.
I'm pretty sure nobody here wants an actual re-make. They just want some updates to the already existing game. I mean it would be terrible if they tried to do the Diablo-esque thing in bw, where they bring BW to the sc2 engine. That's definitely not what the people want.
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
Ok, I surrender.
I'm not telling you to give up, just give us more substantial stuff than a widescreen mod.
you should re-read his posts if you think that's all he's offering.
On November 08 2016 16:11 )aguar wrote: Look. Blizzard is a company earning money. They get any money from remastered of old games? I think no. Why they should make any remaster?
Blizzard still make money selling their old games. A remaster would certainly be profitable.
I'm pretty sure nobody here wants an actual re-make. They just want some updates to the already existing game. I mean it would be terrible if they tried to do the Diablo-esque thing in bw, where they bring BW to the sc2 engine. That's definitely not what the people want.
Well there are multiple versions of BW on Sc2 engine already. And some like Starbow went further to replicate quirks of the BW engine like bad pathfinding or muta stacking when paired with a far away overlord.
Anyone who things Blizzard explicitly stating "we're bringing StarCraft 1 back to glory" on multiple new job postings isn't related to a remake is just making up excuses at this point. I bet you're the same kind of people who were confident Jaedong wasn't returning to BW just because he "officially" denied it for contractual reasons.
It's common practice to read between the lines to find out what's actually going on. No Apple announcement is a surprise nowadays because we already know what's going to be announced with high accuracy. You can keep living in your dream world where everything has to be "official", or you can make the same conclusions everyone else is making.
When Apple filed a patent for touchbars on MacBooks, everyone assumed correctly that they're putting touchbars on the next MacBooks. When Blizzard puts multiple job postings about bringing old games "back to glory", then that's what they're doing. Case closed. Only question is when.
I think bw hd would be interesting, but a part of me is worried blizzard will ruin it.
The first thing you need to consider is what are they going to do with b.net? bw/war3 bnet has a lot of obvious advantages over sc2 bnet. Many of these advantages are obvious to people who put in thousands of hours into the games, yet blizzard somehow overlooked them and missed even common features in bnet2.0 launch (chat channels and proper layout, watching replays with others, custom UMS names, able to boot people, quick/clean interface, etc). Its 2016 and many of those features are still missing in sc2 bnet.
The second thing to consider is what to change? Fixing bugs like dragoon freezing should be fine, but what about scrab AI, larger viewable area, rally to minerals? Even just one of those changes can theoretically break the balance and that is without even talking about more serious/dangerous 'changes' like being able to select more then 12 units, fixing the valkyrie attack, making the game 3d, better pathfinding, smart casting and auto casting.
And finally we have balance. Scouts/queens are arguable the two worse units in the game. Do you buff them slightly, still making them useless, or do you buff them in a way that might break the balance of the entire game? I am not sure, but these are things to think about if you want something 'fresh' in the game.
Overall if blizzard came up to me and asked what I wanted id say: 1# A good b.net (id give them a list of *USEFUL* features gamers enjoy) 2# A much more powerful map editor (for better UMS maps for those who care about it) 3# A method to watch big tournaments like dota2 (in full 1440p resolution with ability to pick casters). 4# Only fixing safe bugs (like dragoon), and add experiment with safe features (like rally to minerals). 5# Experiment with larger resolution (dangerous).
But even after all that, would scbw be that much more interesting and fun to play? Im sure the core players would benefit a lot, but would it attract a lot more people and keep them interested?
I'm pretty sure nobody here wants an actual re-make. They just want some updates to the already existing game. I mean it would be terrible if they tried to do the Diablo-esque thing in bw, where they bring BW to the sc2 engine. That's definitely not what the people want.
Well there are multiple versions of BW on Sc2 engine already. And some like Starbow went further to replicate quirks of the BW engine like bad pathfinding or muta stacking when paired with a far away overlord.
the problem is that people who find this acceptable already play it, so they have no need for it. And people who do not find that acceptable play BW, and some of them are waiting for BW HD.
Sorry for being "that guy" who claims inside knowledge and won't name the source, but I spoke with a former Blizzard coder plus friend of family while I was at Blizzcon, and he said that:
(i) They are definitely working on BW HD and have been for a while; (ii) They are doing it in the SC2 engine, which is apparently very extensible and you can do "almost anything" in it; (iii) Regarding the bugs and glitches that make BW what it is (I asked about muta stacking/drone drilling/etc.), he said that all of this is game logic and can be replicated. (Whether it will be replicated, he doesn't know.)
So, I think it's going to happen eventually, but it may or may not be soon and it may or may not be an exact reproduction of BW in ways that would matter to a fan of the 2000--2013(?) pro scene.
On November 09 2016 01:08 Djabanete wrote: Sorry for being "that guy" who claims inside knowledge and won't name the source, but I spoke with a former Blizzard coder plus friend of family while I was at Blizzcon, and he said that:
(i) They are definitely working on BW HD and have been for a while; (ii) They are doing it in the SC2 engine, which is apparently very extensible and you can do "almost anything" in it; (iii) Regarding the bugs and glitches that make BW what it is (I asked about muta stacking/drone drilling/etc.), he said that all of this is game logic and can be replicated. (Whether it will be replicated, he doesn't know.)
So, I think it's going to happen eventually, but it may or may not be soon and it may or may not be an exact reproduction of BW in ways that would matter to a fan of the 2000--2013(?) pro scene.
Them announcing the Diablo 1 thing on Diablo 3 engine does give some support to the idea that they might be thinking of doing the remaster on SC2 engine after all. I thought they'd be smarter than that and going for something closer to AOE2 HD but maybe not...
That mentality of "oh we have this amazing technology, let's use it to its fullest" is exactly why SC2 turned to ****. By default, BW players are not interested in having an SC2 like experience. Keep your slimey hands off of BW if all you can do is shove it into SC2's engine and call it a day.
no announcement at Blizzcon means to me it won't come. You don't spread these rumors about announcements when you can't deliver. BW HD remake wasn't mentioned with 1 word at blizzcon. To me, the topic is more then over, should be closed like said above.
On November 09 2016 01:32 Cele wrote: no announcement at Blizzcon means to me it won't come. You don't spread these rumors about announcements when you can't deliver. BW HD remake wasn't mentioned with 1 word at blizzcon. To me, the topic is more then over, should be closed like said above.
So even after we get a guy with personal insider knowledge AND Blizzard posts official job postings of a remake you won't believe it? I will bet you literally anything that the remake is coming. You seem to be under the false assumption that Blizzard is obliged to reveal everything they're working on at every Blizzcon.
On November 09 2016 01:08 Djabanete wrote: (ii) They are doing it in the SC2 engine, which is apparently very extensible and you can do "almost anything" in it;
why in the world..bw needs a battle.net rework, not a unit model rework. If their finished product is anything like sc2's lobby system it'll just anger the bw fans.
On November 09 2016 01:32 Cele wrote: no announcement at Blizzcon means to me it won't come. You don't spread these rumors about announcements when you can't deliver. BW HD remake wasn't mentioned with 1 word at blizzcon. To me, the topic is more then over, should be closed like said above.
So even after we get a guy with personal insider knowledge AND Blizzard posts official job postings of a remake you won't believe it? I will bet you literally anything that the remake is coming. You seem to be under the false assumption that Blizzard is obliged to reveal everything they're working on at every Blizzcon.
ye my friends friends step grandsons daughter works at Blizzard too. From that source i can 1,5 million % guarantee you that they are not working on BW HD.
Im simply ignoring people who claim to have insider knowledge but can't provide any evidence.
To the job posting: could as well be a minor patch, could already be cancelled, could be anything.
If that guy is telling the truth, there goes any hope of a serious BW revival outside of Korea. The ONE thing people didn't want, the ONEEEE thing people asked Blizzard to NEVER do was make BW in SC2 no matter their technology or whatever bullshit, and they supposedly want to do it anyway.
This is why Blizzard fucks everything up these days. They refuse to admit they just can't do some things, and when they do admit they don't have the technology it's some bullshit excuse for something they could easily do.
On November 09 2016 02:08 notgayDragon wrote: If that guy is telling the truth, there goes any hope of a serious BW revival outside of Korea. The ONE thing people didn't want, the ONEEEE thing people asked Blizzard to NEVER do was make BW in SC2 no matter their technology or whatever bullshit, and they supposedly want to do it anyway.
This is why Blizzard fucks everything up these days. They refuse to admit they just can't do some things, and when they do admit they don't have the technology it's some bullshit excuse for something they could easily do.
EXACTLY.
It's SO arrogant to do it in SC2's engine, and it's silly that they have any hope that balance will be preserved. The slightest alteration of unit behavior caused by this shift could have fatal consequenses for balance.
And when the inevitable balance problems occur? Then it's time for Blizzard's endless carousel of balance tweaks a la SC2. Thanks, but no thanks.
In the previous speculation thread that was dozens of pages long, no one even contemplated the possibility that it might be in SC2's engine. It's that ridiculous.
We wouldn't get that endless carousel of balance tweaks like SC2 does, we'd be left in the dirt because more likely than not it'll be something in the arcade nobody will ever touch because the arcade doesn't even fucking load.
Really, I can't get the arcade to load. My PC locks up and when it does load it takes several minutes. Doesn't matter because nobody plays it anyway.
I don't understand why people who want to keep discussing can't do it or people who might come around to the forums can't find thread cause its buried...... just because some people think things have been discussed to death doesn't mean others also think that way, if you don't want to keep discussing just don't and let others do? even if it does run around in circles....
The only reason I put any trust in that guy's post is because he's been around a very long time and if he lied there'd be a lynch mob. Once again, Blizzard has crushed my hopes.
It's as if they do this shit on purpose, you know?
On November 08 2016 09:07 -Archangel- wrote: That is bullshit, if they need 2-3 years to do D2HD or BWHD they might as well make D4 or SC3.
You shouldnt assume that this project has the same funding or as many people working on it as a next big title has. I feel like its a side thing for them so they can cash in on the younger people who didnt grow up playing these games.
On November 09 2016 01:31 eviltomahawk wrote: Now I wonder if they're doing it with 3D assets or going with sprites like the Starcrafts mod.
See this is the make or break of BW Remastered. If they just stick to sprites and replicate the movement/mechanics that make BW what it is, I'm okay with it.
On the other hand if they just make 3D models and just call it "BW HD", I'm not sure how well the community will react (if positive at all).
I mean, we already have this in the arcade in SC2 as fan-made projects. I'm hoping they just stick with sprites
I mean Blizzard cannot try to kill SCBW actively in Korea anymore, since there are no Kespa sanctioned tournaments. They cannot force any Korean to switch. People won't switch and pay money for an obviously inferior game with supposedly 'better' graphics.
Even if they bring out SCBW HD, it will fail so hard, it will be as dead as LOTV.
I say Blizzard, bring it and crash as you always do. People in Korea will hate you even more after that huge middlefinger towards the Korean scene, who all in unison do not want any Blizzard involvement in the future.
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
You don't believe in Blizzard's own words?
On November 08 2016 07:42 Blizzard wrote: Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
You can interpret those words however you like but they certainly don't mean that BW HD is coming.
On November 08 2016 11:13 Poly_Optimize wrote: There was a Blizzard event during last weekend and I think it is totally normal to speak about highlights and also disappointments.. Many of us wanted to see something about their all time favorite game, but it did not happen. It still remains fun to chat about possible features of a remastered BW.
2 posts out of 10 said there should not be any posts about bw hd and they were made by TL Writers. Is it forbidden to pronounce the words Brood War HD?
On November 08 2016 07:42 BigFan wrote: I fail to see the purpose of this thread tbh. Community has known about the SCII options but try as they might, it's not BW HD. Also, rumours are just that, rumors. Once blizzard or a reputable source state that BW HD is coming, then I'll believe it.
On November 08 2016 10:31 BLinD-RawR wrote: why do we have a new BW HD thread?
wait until something is actually announced.
Btw, there is a new thread because the other ones are closed. For me it is totally normal to talk about BW HD. For years, Star Wars fans spent a lot of time to create and imagine stuffs for their favorite movies. It is normal for gamers to do the same with their favorite video game.
Other thread was closed because as BR stated, it was discussed to death. There's nothing more to be discussed at this point. Once we have some actual proof that BW HD is in the works (aka reputable source or Blizzard themselves), then it makes sense to keep it going.
I don't think you guys should get to make the call on when to close a thread just because it has been 'discussed to death'. As long as people still want to discuss it, they should be free to do this. This is the BW forum. Also your statement is contradictory, because if it were discussed to death then new threads wouldn't pop up. Stop trying to silence people plz and let them decide when it's actually discussed to death.
Also, if you guys don't have something new to bring to the discussion, please refrain from bringing the negativity.
I didn't close the other thread and never planned on closing this one either. Please re-read my first post. I merely stated that there isn't any evidence aside from a rumour and that blizzcon (implied in my post) was the best chance for us to hear about BW HD. If people want to keep speculating, by all means, go ahead. I'm not planning to stop anyone lol.
On November 09 2016 01:08 Djabanete wrote: Sorry for being "that guy" who claims inside knowledge and won't name the source, but I spoke with a former Blizzard coder plus friend of family while I was at Blizzcon, and he said that:
(i) They are definitely working on BW HD and have been for a while; (ii) They are doing it in the SC2 engine, which is apparently very extensible and you can do "almost anything" in it; (iii) Regarding the bugs and glitches that make BW what it is (I asked about muta stacking/drone drilling/etc.), he said that all of this is game logic and can be replicated. (Whether it will be replicated, he doesn't know.)
So, I think it's going to happen eventually, but it may or may not be soon and it may or may not be an exact reproduction of BW in ways that would matter to a fan of the 2000--2013(?) pro scene.
But what is the point when there is already Starbow and other mods that basically did the very same thing?
could as well be a minor patch
Speaking of patch. The fuck did happen to patch 1.17?
lol djabanete is full of shit. BW in the SC2 engine? Even blizzard isn't that stupid. If they are going to do that, they might as well go for SC3. bw in sc2 engine would be like shitting on the sc2 dev team/scene. after their fiasco with kespa, they are going to turn tables and now fully fuck over the sc2 scene? No.
BWHD will come but it won't be in the sc2 engine and it won't change gameplay at all. it will just make it easier for people to play and as a bonus a good matchmaking system would be a god send. custom hotkeys would be nice as well and more cool sprites? there is so much they can do to make it better, and none of that has to do with touching the mechanics or gameplay of bw.
We at Blizzard are proud to announce BendoverWatch, or BW for short. We are taking legal action against any future brood war tournaments, we want to erase that game from the face of the earth. Any current BW players are free to switch to the new BW. From now on, BW will always mean BendoverWatch and it is illegal to mention brood war.
I just hope our playerbase won't be split anymore than it currently is. If you look at it that way, it might even be good if the remake is as different from bw as possible, because then there won't be any migration from us.
On November 06 2016 15:13 Orite wrote: From Blizzard.com:
Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
This was posted before and most likely also led to the blog articles; Blizzard basically already announced that they're remaking BW.
But since these job offerings aren't there for very long and still open, this really will take a while. Lets hope until next Blizzcon they will have something to show and talk about.
This is in no way an announcement, the "We're restoring them to glory" simply means patches (more specifically, patches for OS compatibility) and general support/maintenance. The job positions don't give evidence to a remaster either, look at the responsibilities section for the software engineer position. "Design and implement web interfaces for seamless user experience.", "Own implementation and curation of features.", "Enable classic team to be on the bleeding edge.". None of those scream "remaster." The anti-cheat position just means that they want an antihack for their Battle.net servers, because otherwise, these patches that they're releasing won't mean much. The Tools position is just to give general support to the classic games team.
On November 09 2016 01:08 Djabanete wrote: (iii) Regarding the bugs and glitches that make BW what it is (I asked about muta stacking/drone drilling/etc.), he said that all of this is game logic and can be replicated. (Whether it will be replicated, he doesn't know.)
It's pretty much impossible to replicate it perfectly and as long as there are impactful differences, it will never be a true BW HD (same reason why the D1 thing for D3 is only a nice nostalgic feature and not a real game remake in any regard).
For example, they will never be able to re-create the same pathing because that would really require the same (buggy) pathing algorithms. Changing that will most likely go way too deep into the engine. So, it would just make more sense to just update Broodwar for modern operating systems (and at most carefully fix bugs). People might be happier when Broodwar would receive an updated battle.net interface that potentially uses a higher resolution and would be connected to the new battle.net. The rest of the game should be the same old to not interfere with the gameplay (including structure of stuff in the RAM, the modding community hates to re-find offsets for EUD conditions and similar tricks that read/write in areas that were initially not intended to be written to/read from).
If Blizzard wants to remake Broodwar units/models, etc, then please do it in a new way. Create a coop with those, let us re-play some important Broodwar story events in coop or create whatever new content with it... Make something new from it with strong references to the old and keep the original old alive. A remake is unlikely to become better than the original, it will always be a shadow of the original. Thus, don't even try. It's too easy to add a flaw and break it.
Hey Golgotha, I'm just trying to help out some folks who don't have a chance to talk to people with higher up connections at Blizzard. There's no reason to call me names for taking the time to share what my family friend told me.
It sounds like some people think "made with the SC2 engine" means somehow "will be like SC2 in some way", or worse even, "inserted into the SC2 game as an easter egg" kind of like the announcement about D1. That's not what my friend said, and that's not what "using the SC2 engine" means. He said that they would use the much more multifaceted/powerful game engine that powers SC2-- "the SC2 engine"-- to run the mechanics of BWHD. He said that every tiny detail in old BW was just settings that could be replicated in the SC2 engine. The SC2 engine is just a bigger version of the BW engine, with more options and capabilities. True, using the SC2 engine means that blizzard will have the OPTION of making things different from how they were in BW, maybe messing up muta micro, unit stacking, stuff like that. But it certainly does not guarantee it. Anything you were dreaming of for BWHD, can still be done in the SC2 engine. To claim otherwise is misleading-- it makes it sound as though "using the SC2 engine" fundamentally will make BWHD take on disliked characteristics of SC2, which is. not. true.
Now, *will* Blizzard limit themselves to remaking BW just as it was before, just with HD graphics? Almost definitely not. I haven't seen that be the MO of other gaming companies with HOMM3 HD, or AOE2 HD, etc. Usually they try to "fix bugs" and add more content. Maybe Blizzard will make a mess of attempting to "fix bugs" or add content. But if so, it's won't be because they're using the SC2 engine, it'll be because they are out of touch with BW community values. If you are going to sow panic among BW fans, at least be accurate about it.
I for one continue to see this as good news, and I can't wait to see it.
I don't feel like I want a 3D Bw tbh. I think 2D is much more readable and I like most of the original graphics and art a lot. Graphics being udpated in new resolution and/or given some sort of enhancements or additions like tilesets I find it interesting if well made. But ported to a 3D engine, I don't care. I would want to play a new game, not a 3D BW, better play 2D BW.
It's true that the first thing BW needs is updates to public server lan lat no port forward and stuff, ladder/matchmaking, quality of life accessibility and compatibility with modern systems. That sounds sorta easy to make, few months work. Fish seems like the best place if you don't lag, because it is quite lively. Ofc blizzard look like they just want to shut it down as it always seemed (since war3 came out and they basically stopped supporting starcraft bnet servers, letting hackers own the ladder, not implementing modern solutions, giving features and organizing tourneys for their new game only).
On November 08 2016 07:20 Jae Zedong wrote: Blizzard have essentially already announced that they will remake BW, but it will take a while.
On November 06 2016 15:13 Orite wrote: From Blizzard.com:
Compelling stories. Intense multiplayer. Endless replayability. Qualities that made StarCraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo II the titans of their day. [...] We’re restoring them to glory [...]
This was posted before and most likely also led to the blog articles; Blizzard basically already announced that they're remaking BW.
But since these job offerings aren't there for very long and still open, this really will take a while. Lets hope until next Blizzcon they will have something to show and talk about.
This is in no way an announcement, the "We're restoring them to glory" simply means patches (more specifically, patches for OS compatibility) and general support/maintenance. The job positions don't give evidence to a remaster either, look at the responsibilities section for the software engineer position. "Design and implement web interfaces for seamless user experience.", "Own implementation and curation of features.", "Enable classic team to be on the bleeding edge.". None of those scream "remaster." The anti-cheat position just means that they want an antihack for their Battle.net servers, because otherwise, these patches that they're releasing won't mean much. The Tools position is just to give general support to the classic games team.
Right, remaking was the wrong word. They're restoring it and I hope what you say is exactly everything they will be doing.
That would be the best news for BW imo and how I understood HD remake all along; making it compatible on HD devices etc.
Talking about a 3D remake seems pretty far off and I think Blizzard will be smart enough to do the right thing with a game that has such a long history and special standing in eSport (because of Korea).
On November 09 2016 06:10 Djabanete wrote:. The SC2 engine is just a bigger version of the BW engine, with more options and capabilities. True, using the SC2 engine means that blizzard will have the OPTION of making things different from how they were in BW, maybe messing up muta micro, unit stacking, stuff like that.
thats uhhhh not how game engines work
forget the fact that bw engine doesn't even render in 3d, they would have to rewrite their renderer to make things the same as bw. if they were actually using the sc2 engine, it would be insane to think that they would not be taking advantage of all the pathing, networking, rendering, whatever work that was already done for sc2. maps don't even use the same geometry for collision, they would have to code a specific kludge to replicate every single quirk of bw. if they actually used sc2 engine, it would basically be like a more detailed version of sc2bw mod
It's funny how it's only SC2 players who absolutely want BWHD, while disregarding possible consequences it may have on the BW scene.
I can't describe how much it angers me. It is as if american football fans try to establish some rule changes on soccer just to "make it more like american football", totally ignoring the damages it could do.
Seriously. If you have not played BW, you are in no situation to demand anything here. It is OUR scene. Try not to destroy it again so we have to rebuild it again.
Would be really hard to recreate BW successfully because the best buts of the game are the irregularities / engine weird behaviour that added a lot of depth: the really strange wall in property of buildings, the muta stack when in a ctrl group with an overlord, etc etc.
Unless a very specific effort is made to mimic those behaviour, a new engine would ruin all of that.
On November 09 2016 07:31 Biff The Understudy wrote: Would be really hard to recreate BW successfully because the best buts of the game are the irregularities / engine weird behaviour that added a lot of depth: the really strange wall in property of buildings, the muta stack when in a ctrl group with an overlord, etc etc.
Unless a very specific effort is made to mimic those behaviour, a new engine would ruin all of that.
The SC2BW mod already makes an effort at recreating those behaviors with custom scripting. Blizzard should have an easier time doing that since they have more control of the game engine. I believe the bigger issue will be that no matter how hard they try, it will never be a perfect 1:1 recreation of the original behaviors, and for every quirk that they try to recreate, there are so many more that aren't recreated. All that adds up to inevitably make the remake a different experience no matter how they try.
Rauk, I'm not sure what you're calling out in specific, when you make a sweeping statement like "that's not how game engines work". But my intention was to explain that "using the SC2 game engine" does not mean "turning BWHD into SC2" nor yet "putting BWHD *inside* SC2". Are you .... contradicting that? I can't imagine that anyone who is informed would contradict that, but it's also hard to imagine someone uninformed jumping on here just to be a provocateur. So I'm going to assume we are misunderstanding each other. I'll try to be clearer:
I'm not a programmer myself, but I've had extensive discussions with people who are, including my recent talk with this Blizzard coder. Who was much more than "just a coder" at Blizzard, hence his deep understanding of how games work and also of projects currently under development at Blizzard despite that he hasn't worked there himself for years...
The physics, the geometry, the audio, etc etc... all of these are run by really huge complex piles of code that themselves are often called "engines", i.e. "physics engine". The "Game Engine" is just all of these separate things taken together. Depending on how the game designers chose to "architect" the game, there may be separate pieces of code that tell all these other parts how to talk to each other, or maybe that functionality (i.e. how to communicate with the other necessary engines) will be built into the individual engines themselves. But those basic pieces in the random graphic I linked to are more or less the general components of any really complicated game like starcraft.
The software that runs SC2 is called "the SC2 engine". The way physics, shadows, particles, sounds, etc are rendered in this engine is strictly more sophisticated than the way they were rendered in code that is over 20 years old. The fancy SC2 engine can be set up to run on the same 20 year old logic of the original BW if thats what they tell it to do.
For example, consider D1 inside D3. Specifically, consider the example of pathing in that game. In the presentation it was highlighted that when D1 was coded, there were only 8 directions or something that an object/player could move. Now they have 360 degree mobility in the D3 engine. But when they redid D1, it wasn't a problem to dial the mobility back to the original 8 directions. Similarly, mechanics like unit stacking and unit pathing in BW are simply controlled by different logic options in the game engine. The D1 remake also serves as a good example, Rauk, of the fact that Blizzard does not forcibly take advantage of every cool new widget they have when the whole entire goal is to recreate an old game that has nostalgic value. Just because SC2 engine *can* do 3D, doesn't mean that it *has* to do 3D. My source said very clearly, and especially in response to my questions about pathing, "These are all just settings that can be changed".
There's no need to pretend it's the end of the world that Blizzard is using its state-of-the-art SC2 engine to run BWHD. It doesn't mean it will be 3D, it doesn't mean the units will have to behave the way they do in SC2, it doesn't mean the graphics and art will look like SC2 instead of BW. I don't know that Blizzard won't change these things, but if they do, like I said, it's because they are out of touch with community values and it has nothing to do with using the SC2 game engine. All of Rauk's speculation about what Blizzard would or wouldn't do in the SC2 engine basically amounts to an overwhelming suspicion he holds that Blizzard is out of touch with his values. Maybe so. I actually even agree with him, personally I find it hard to trust Blizzard to stand up for the BW community values in any way after what they did in Korea. But the information that they are utilizing the SC2 engine over the original BW code doesn't make that case.
Also, Duke? Why on earth do you want to turn this news into some kind of SC2 vs BW thing? I'm a broodwar player who has never even touched SC2. I want BWHD because I'm a BW fan from the old days and I'd dearly like to see Blizzard put some advertising dollars into making BW relevant again. If this doesn't happen as a result of the BWHD release (and who even knows when that will happen), then at least I don't see how it could do any harm. But you're angry because SC2 fans are demanding things?? What on earth.
well i am a programmer. there does not exist "switches" in any game engine that allow you to go between moving your character in any direction and only 8 cardinal directions. that's a fundamental misunderstanding of how programming works in general. you need to implement some new function that will restrict your character's movement. can blizz redo muta stacking and a* pathfinding in sc2? yes, of course they can if they wanted to. but it's not the exact same result as reusing the bw engine will be, and it's not a trivial change
in the same way, yes, sc2 "could" do 2.5d rendering if they wanted to do, in the same way that a 4 wheel car "could" operate as a motorcyle if you removed the chassis, 2 wheels, and redesigned the engine and steering and power linkages and everything
from the point of view of remaking a game, if they want to do it in sc2 engine, they MUST do it like sc2bw mod does it. it's a huge effort otherwise, they will need to change how map terrain is represented, change netcode to accomodate the new map format, change replays, etc, then go into the effort of assigning QA on all this. it's a huge time and money investment, basically they'll be making a new game
edit: TLDR, there is no "option" to do these things you are talking about, they will literally have to tear out the old code and rewrite it
The fancy SC2 engine can be set up to run on the same 20 year old logic of the original BW if thats what they tell it to do.
no it cannot unless they rip out all the old code and port in the bw code and depending on the architecture and how critical the component is that is basically calling for a full rewrite of large parts of the engine
Look. I may not be a programmer myself, but I can still tell that you must be in some way mired in a technicality here because the person who told me about "options" and "settings" is not only a coder who used to actually work at blizzard, but the dude is now a teacher at a major research university and he teaches programming. Was he just making it up about options and settings? You are either suggesting that a Blizzard insider who is beyond expert in these matters was for some reason making it sound much easier and more flexible than it is, or else you, Rauk, are trying to make it sound much more difficult than it is.
Did you build Blizzard's game engines? Do you know what internal options they do or don't have? Do you know how they structured their code? I don't need to be a programmer professionally to know that your pessimism is assuming a lot of things that you haven't substantiated. I wouldn't normally make it my business to argue programming details with a programmer, except I feel that you (and others) are twisting the information I gave about use of the SC2 engine to deliver a really different message to the community than the one that I very clearly received from my source, who, I can hazard a guess, knows much better than anyone here.
Oh well. Since I'm not willing to name names without his permission, I guess I can't hide behind the expertness of my source too much. You all who think you are better experts can form your own conclusions. I'll just let my posts stand for anyone who would prefer to put their faith in what an expert insider told me.
you are either a troll or completely misunderstood everything that he said to you, anyone who has done anything programming related knows that what you say is completely ridiculous
In terms of gameplay, I miss bw's controls and movements with exceptions to the buggy pathfinder among other things. In contrast, SC2's controls feel much too fluid to have full control over. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but that's how I felt playing those two games. For example, you need much more focus to micro individual units in SC2, and you just end up "winging it" and it's more about controlling small groups of units rather than a single unit.
I think this is in part because there are much less constraints in SC2 just like in most modern games. I'm pretty sure that art assets had a huge impact on the flow of the game. 2D/2.5D has a side effect of revealing these constraints, but it's much harder to notice this in 3D games. And if you've ever tried adding restricted movements to a 3D model, it's an unpleasant sight.
I haven't given this much thought, but I'm starting to see why I prefer japanese fighting games so much. This, of course, is merely my opinion.
I mean, I have done "anything" programming related. It's just not my day job at the moment. Speaking of which, I'm confused. Do you actually code games for a living? Or do you program something completely, entirely different? Because you give so little detail in your answers that I can't learn anything from you. For example, why is it so implausible that Blizzard's game engines have different options and settings that game designers can work with? Why do you speak of needing to entirely rip out old code and recreate a whole new game? If it was so hard to remake something small in D1 such as the 8-direction pathing from 360 degrees available in the D3 engine, how did Blizzard manage to do the rest of D1 in the D3 engine and why do you think they are releasing that incredible amount of work-- "essentially building a new game" as you said-- for free?
In the past I have written statistical processing programs that can take different inputs from users and model various outcomes for them. Not relevant to computer game design even remotely. But I do know this much: if you foresee the need for options, you build the options from day 1. If you want to give the creative design team the ability to toggle switches in some kind of designer-friendly UI, then you build that UI from day 1. I have no idea how Blizzard sets things up, I don't work there, I have never looked at even one line of their code. But unless you have, don't go around worrying BW fans by making it seem like the decision to use the SC2 engine gives any information about what the BWHD remake will look like. You can theorize about what would be easy or hard, based on some assumptions you are making about what tools they have to work with in the existing engine. I would actually find it really useful and interesting to hear your theories about that.
But if instead you just want to tell me how wrong and stupid I am, that's cool too I guess.
On November 09 2016 07:29 duke91 wrote: It's funny how it's only SC2 players who absolutely want BWHD, while disregarding possible consequences it may have on the BW scene.
I can't describe how much it angers me. It is as if american football fans try to establish some rule changes on soccer just to "make it more like american football", totally ignoring the damages it could do.
Seriously. If you have not played BW, you are in no situation to demand anything here. It is OUR scene. Try not to destroy it again so we have to rebuild it again.
The SC2 purists absolutely do not want BW:HD, as they are afraid what may happen to the already declining SC2 scene.
BW fans absolutely do want BW:HD, providing there is no gameplay changes. Otherwise, it will not be adopted by the Koreans. From what this guy is saying, the gameplay mechanics will be replicated 1:1 which is what most BW fans and pros have been asking for.
Blizzard won't screw this one up guys. Everyone needs to relax!
i work on enterprise level printer management software but i dabbled games in college because that's what every programmer initially wants to do then they realize the game industry is soul sucking and you get paid shit because everyone wants to do it
there is literally zero reason for blizzard to ever implement an isometric rendering system for a modern 3d engine because time is money and whatever 2d UI/menu elements there are, are not rendered the same way as tiles in broodwar are. not to mention porting code is an awful job and porting code from a codebase that's 20+ years old is even worse. so in order to display the map and units, blizz should reuse their 3d renderer.
look at how the map terrain is split up into those 4x4 green cells. if blizz wants to keep the exact behavior of bw pathfinding, blizz needs to throw out their sc2 collision detection logic. modern 3d engines will check if a unit model intersects with an environment mesh, but clearly bw is using a gridbased system. it's possible as a naive, horrific kludge to cover the map with invisible columns that represent the old BW map grid but intuitively that should bring the game loop to a screeching halt because more physics objects are always bad. so some new data structure must be made to represent maps created in sc2 map creator, in broodwar collision terms. some new utility must be made to convert maps from sc2 into sc2-bw. some new utility must be made to convert maps from bw to sc2-bw, or else they would have to throw out 20 years of bw maps and have everyone remake them in the sc2map creator
you can get an approximation of the pathfinding as you see in sc2bw mod "relatively" simply. but if you want the exact behavior, you need to do a lot of work
that is just one small example of the kind of work that goes into turning sc2 into bw
and based on the footage i've seen of d1 in d3, they did not remake it. they created d3 maps that are themed like d1 and some new bosses that are the same as d1's, but in 3d. thats the equivalent of changing tech trees and unit values in sc2 and saying they remade bw
if you foresee the need for options, you build the options from day 1.
then you work in a horrifically bloated team, no one has the time to code and test shit that won't be used when you have real deadlines
Rauk, thanks for that explanation and for sharing Patrick Wyatt's blog post. I now have a better understanding of the ways you foresee this as being a difficult and finnicky process. As a possible way to bridge between what you are saying and my expert friend's shoulder-shrug/casual "they can do anything in the SC2 engine", I would just say that how hard something is is relative to how many resources you have to do it with, and I guess... Blizzard has a lot. D1 in D3 is a pretty good sign (in my opinion) that they can do this sort of thing without too much trouble. So I'm really hopeful that they're going to do what it takes to get it right, even if it's costly. After all, I expect that BWHD is going to be a real product that they sell for money, whereas the D1 thing was free content. So I expect they really have the resources to spend to get this right. Otherwise people like you and me won't be buying... so they should have a decent incentive, right?
Rauk, what's that video precisely? When I looked at the Diablo gaming preview area at Blizzcon (where they have a bunch of PCs set up and you sit down and try unreleased stuff), I saw Diablo 1 over people's shoulders. Like, it was the same Diablo 1 graphics and skill trees that were on my uncle's laptop way back when. It looked way more janky and retro than the video you linked. I did not actually try out that part of the demo, though (instead I tried out the D3 necro class). I don't totally understand the nature of the video you linked from its brief description, but I do notice that it's from February 2016, so it might not be same thing we're talking about.
As for whether BW HD is going to be just like BW in terms of finer points (which are relevant for progaming fans --- muta micro, exact replication of original unit movement, etc.), we're gonna have to wait and see. As I've said, I think there's a decent chance that Blizzard will not grok how much we want an exact replica of BW and will get it a bit wrong. It's also possible that the guy I talked to doesn't grok that himself. But the D1 sample that I saw over people's shoulders looked just like the original D1 from arm's length, and if it was really a D1 remake and not the actual D1 game, then that gives me some hope.
djab, I didn't call you names. I said what you claimed was bullshit. I find it hard to believe that some blizz employee told you and now you are telling this to us when there has been nothing from any other source regarding this making of bw in the sc2 engine. so he just told you some pretty classified stuff when blizzard has fired people for a lot less?
look, we want to believe you but you gotta give us more than "family friend happened to tell me at blizzcon and the public doesn't know, but I know."
On November 09 2016 15:26 Golgotha wrote: djab, I didn't call you names. I said what you claimed was bullshit. I find it hard to believe that some blizz employee told you and now you are telling this to us when there has been nothing from any other source regarding this making of bw in the sc2 engine. so he just told you some pretty classified stuff when blizzard has fired people for a lot less?
look, we want to believe you but you gotta give us more than "family friend happened to tell me at blizzcon and the public doesn't know, but I know."
You don't have to believe it.
It's information that he might or might not have gotten. We are all big boys here and can make our own judgement call.
On November 09 2016 15:26 Golgotha wrote: djab, I didn't call you names. I said what you claimed was bullshit. I find it hard to believe that some blizz employee told you and now you are telling this to us when there has been nothing from any other source regarding this making of bw in the sc2 engine. so he just told you some pretty classified stuff when blizzard has fired people for a lot less?
look, we want to believe you but you gotta give us more than "family friend happened to tell me at blizzcon and the public doesn't know, but I know."
You don't have to believe it.
It's information that he might or might not have gotten. We are all big boys here and can make our own judgement call.
Yeah, it's hilarous with all these "until there's an official announcement I won't discuss it". Bro who gives a shit that you won't discuss it? Don't post in the discussion thread if you're not interested. Simple.
On November 09 2016 14:00 Djabanete wrote: Rauk, what's that video precisely? When I looked at the Diablo gaming preview area at Blizzcon (where they have a bunch of PCs set up and you sit down and try unreleased stuff), I saw Diablo 1 over people's shoulders. Like, it was the same Diablo 1 graphics and skill trees that were on my uncle's laptop way back when. It looked way more janky and retro than the video you linked. I did not actually try out that part of the demo, though (instead I tried out the D3 necro class). I don't totally understand the nature of the video you linked from its brief description, but I do notice that it's from February 2016, so it might not be same thing we're talking about..
They clearly said that they are giving you the D1 experience in D3. Making it 8 instead of 360 degree movement, and a filter to make it look more old-school. They may have had D1 and D2 set up to play on PCs at BlizzCon, but the opening ceremony didn't claim to be remaking D1, just that the next patch for D3 will contain a D1 experience.
Yeah, it's hilarous with all these "until there's an official announcement I won't discuss it". Bro who gives a shit that you won't discuss it? Don't post in the discussion thread if you're not interested. Simple.
no way man i'd rather make totally quality posts asking to lock the thread because everyone is having a discussion but me :<(
EPT
