logo by BaboToss, & btw click on me biatch, you know you want to..
Let me quote X-MeN-lOki:
We are on the verge of engaging in a showmatch with TeamLiquid.net.
TeamLiquid has been around of years and is the premier StarCraft website in English, but it is representative of the low community only. BGHers.com is still in its infancy, having been launched only a few months ago.
TeamLiquid.Net is 8.2 times older than BGHers.com, has 50 times more unique IP hits per day, 76.2 times more members, and 115.7 times more threads. David vs Goliath? But we are growing strong!
Finally, we would like to underline what this showmatch is all about . It doesn't matter who wins. We want everyone who is willing to play to register and to take part, and represent the BGH community. This showmatch is a great opportunity to expose the BGH and low map communities to each other, and initiate a cordial relationship. We sincerely hope that the players who represent us will, above all, display good manners, sportsmanship, and maturity.
While that's cool and all, and it looks like a fun event, I would much rather see the "elite" of each community play each other. It would just make some fun games to see the best BGHer try to 30 hat on Luna, a solid TLnetter try to mmf break a BGH sunken defense, etc.
Wow. Insane news lately. So there is a very real initiative to unite the entire Starcraft community. These people are something like the Dark Templar of SC communities. The Koreans would never accept them. They're the Judicators. Which leaves only one class for TL. The Templar, baby.
Yea I played the campaign over today, want to fight?
dark templar of sc communities... i love that idea, may i enter it in your name to our "slogan contest"?
the event has a very promising outlook, it'll be fun, if not a little chaotic at the start but we've had a little bit of experience from our previous showmatches.
afaik registration for TL is done by PM to manifesto, good luck to all.. I'll be rooting for the first bold step towards bridging the many dedicated communities spawned from the game that we all love (and still play!)
On January 12 2007 23:56 borg wrote: dark templar of sc communities... i love that idea, may i enter it in your name to our "slogan contest"?
the event has a very promising outlook, it'll be fun, if not a little chaotic at the start but we've had a little bit of experience from our previous showmatches.
afaik registration for TL is done by PM to manifesto, good luck to all.. I'll be rooting for the first bold step towards bridging the many dedicated communities spawned from the game that we all love (and still play!)
Crap I didn't know someone was watching. Sure thing!
I have no doubt we will get pwned on BGH. I just hope we can win the low money ones T_T. From what I see, they seem much more driven, and a lot of us are either noobs or inactive. But I really want to see Testie pwn that k00lam guy ;p.
Finally, we would like to underline what this showmatch is all about . It doesn't matter who wins. We want everyone who is willing to play to register and to take part, and represent the BGH community. This showmatch is a great opportunity to expose the BGH and low map communities to each other, and initiate a cordial relationship. We sincerely hope that the players who represent us will, above all, display good manners, sportsmanship, and maturity.
While that's cool and all, and it looks like a fun event, I would much rather see the "elite" of each community play each other. It would just make some fun games to see the best BGHer try to 30 hat on Luna, a solid TLnetter try to mmf break a BGH sunken defense, etc.
Regardless, have fun
Nobody on BGH 30 hatches. You seem to be confused with FPM.
On January 13 2007 00:15 Aphelion02 wrote: I have no doubt we will get pwned on BGH. I just hope we can win the low money ones T_T. From what I see, they seem much more driven, and a lot of us are either noobs or inactive. But I really want to see Testie pwn that k00lam guy ;p.
Nobody doubts that testie can beat pretty much anyone in the BGH community 1:1 on low money.
On January 13 2007 00:15 Aphelion02 wrote: I have no doubt we will get pwned on BGH. I just hope we can win the low money ones T_T. From what I see, they seem much more driven, and a lot of us are either noobs or inactive. But I really want to see Testie pwn that k00lam guy ;p.
pretty much my sentiments. I'm the perfect example of an active forum member on TL that sux at bw hardcore.
when i read "requiem" i thought the two sites agreed on requiem as the low map hahaha.
On January 13 2007 00:18 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Nobody doubts that testie can beat pretty much anyone in the BGH community 1:1 on low money.
I think Testie can take any of them 1:1 on BGH too.
Ok.
pretty sure, given a week, testie would either be the best or one of the top at 1v1 bgh. Don't get me wrong, these guys are good at bgh, and they are good at the basics, but I think almost any top foriegner could pick up bgh and be at least on the same level. Its like playing chess and then switching to checkers.
(I'm not trying to say bgh is as easy as checkers btw;o)
On January 13 2007 00:18 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Nobody doubts that testie can beat pretty much anyone in the BGH community 1:1 on low money.
I think Testie can take any of them 1:1 on BGH too.
Ok.
pretty sure, given a week, testie would either be the best or one of the top at 1v1 bgh. Don't get me wrong, these guys are good at bgh, and they are good at the basics, but I think almost any top foriegner could pick up bgh and be at least on the same level. Its like playing chess and then switching to checkers.
(I'm not trying to say bgh is as easy as checkers btw;o)
On January 13 2007 00:18 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Nobody doubts that testie can beat pretty much anyone in the BGH community 1:1 on low money.
I think Testie can take any of them 1:1 on BGH too.
Ok.
pretty sure, given a week, testie would either be the best or one of the top at 1v1 bgh. Don't get me wrong, these guys are good at bgh, and they are good at the basics, but I think almost any top foriegner could pick up bgh and be at least on the same level. Its like playing chess and then switching to checkers.
(I'm not trying to say bgh is as easy as checkers btw;o)
I think testie has the potential to be one of the best 1v1 BGH players, but it will definitely take more than one week of practice. And I strongly disagree with the notion that "any top foriegner could pick up BGH and be at least on the same level". Why do you make such an assumption? Do you think BGH players are inherently stupid or disabled or something that even with 9 years of gaming, a low player can beat them with a week of practice? Just because they choose to play BGH doesn't mean they have less gaming potential.
Your example about chess and checkers doesn't support your opinion. Although chess is indeed a more complex game, it is nothing like checkers. If you were talking about a snooker player switching to pool I could understand him taking very little time to get good.
You said: "they are good at the basics". If by basics you mean micro, macro and multi tasking, then yes, top BGH players are insanely good at that. Since we have agreed that they are good at these three, we are left only with timing and strategy. Timing, of course, comes with experience, and top BGH players have 9 years of gaming. That leaves strategy. How will the fact that low maps are more strategically driven help a low player playing on BGH? Whats he going to do, fac port in TvP BGH? He'll get raped in five minutes. These guys have been playing BGH for years, and they have every viable strategy worked out. Not only that, they execute it with perfection. Being familiar with low map strategies doesn't mean anything. Every single viable strategy on LT has been worked out because its such an old map. BGH is not only as old as LT, it is also far simpler. How can we possible assume that after 9 years of playing BGH, there remains a viable build that they haven't discovered?
By the way, testie/mondragon played and lost a single 2v2 vs koolam/(someone). I know neither their races nor the map.
I'm not here to defend BGH players or to argue they are superior in any way, and I fully support the prevalent opinion that low maps ask more of the player. But lets not under estimate them unfairly, shall we?
I refuse to belive that someone would have been playing BGH for 9 years..!! someone save them...!!!
But.. hey, anyways.. I lost some BGH 3v3/4v4 yesterday.. Game is diffrent - they are ALL turtles? Everyone seems content to build up huge force befor doing ANYTHING.. ;p. No matter what race they are it feels like playing a turtle terran all the time..
I'm pretty sure that given a week of solid practice Testie would be the best in bgh 1v1.. if he isn't already. PvP = bgh 1v1, and we all know testies pvp is good as hell already. ;o
I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Also, this is by no means a diss at Testie. I have been watching reps of him since a rep pack of him and tsunami was released, and he is obviously one of the best players the non korean community has seen (maybe I'm even a fan?). I have only tried to give a fair analysis (although I acknowledge the possibility that I could be completely wrong).
Also, I do believe that testie has the potential to become one of if not the best BGH player, but I personally feel it will take more than a week of practice.
On January 13 2007 02:38 ocoini wrote: I refuse to belive that someone would have been playing BGH for 9 years..!! someone save them...!!!
But.. hey, anyways.. I lost some BGH 3v3/4v4 yesterday.. Game is diffrent - they are ALL turtles? Everyone seems content to build up huge force befor doing ANYTHING.. ;p. No matter what race they are it feels like playing a turtle terran all the time..
Prepare for your ego to be shatterred.
If they were turtling hardcore till they had a strong army, they were either A) newbs or semi newbs or B) good players fucking around.
When good teams face off, the game is usually very fast paced and furious, and often the advantages gained during early game decide the outcome.
Did you join a random game, or were your allies your friends?
Actually, I think just playing one map can stunt your strategy, even for that map. All these greedy macro oriented builds these days (FD Terran, 14 CC), they were almost never done during the days when everyone played LT, yet other macro maps introduced their possiblities and these can be applied to the older maps as well.
I think a bigger factor, however, is how much the top BGHers have been introduced to progaming, which is really the major reason why the SC skill level has evolved so much. From what I read of their forum, their top members are very familiar with the korean scene, and that doesn't bode well for us in this coming tourny.
On January 13 2007 02:58 Aphelion02 wrote: Actually, I think just playing one map can stunt your strategy, even for that map. All these greedy macro oriented builds these days (FD Terran, 14 CC), they were almost never done during the days when everyone played LT, yet other macro maps introduced their possiblities and these can be applied to the older maps as well.
I think a bigger factor, however, is how much the top BGHers have been introduced to progaming, which is really the major reason why the SC skill level has evolved so much. From what I read of their forum, their top members are very familiar with the korean scene, and that doesn't bode well for us in this coming tourny.
The chances that after 9 years of play there still remains undiscovered a strong, viable strategy for a map as simple as BGH are very, very, very, very slim.
The BGH community isn't completely unaware of the low community. A lot of them watch pro reps, play low maps, and follow the OSL and MSL. Every new strategy they have seen, has been tried and tested on BGH, just like we learn strategies from better players. They have also been intuitive and tried strategies they themselves come up with, just as we do. How can the assumption that the low community has worked out several dozen strategies and plays for each map they've been exposed to, but the BGH community STILL hasn't exposed all the viable builds on BGH, be a fair analysis?
New strategies evolving in the low community have often had a lot to do with the layout of new maps. It isn't so in the BGH community. There is only one map, and it has been drained dry.
I'm not saying koolam could beat testie 5-0. I'm saying he has a chance for a decent showing, even if he loses. And if even if he loses 0-5 to testie, I suspect the games will be very close.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
you guys are crazy or stupid to think testie wouldn't win vs bghers.. from what it looks like, he plays bgh racewars all the time on west, or the twot imes i've went there and knows how to play bgh. aint hard to adapt to spending money faster, and unless a bgher is an ex low min player with good macro, i think it'll be over. I used to play east bgh 2v2s when i was bored, and they could never macro while fighting as well as me, and would always lose to macro eventually :O
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
On January 13 2007 03:30 hasuwar wrote: you guys are crazy or stupid to think testie wouldn't win vs bghers.. from what it looks like, he plays bgh racewars all the time on west, or the twot imes i've went there and knows how to play bgh. aint hard to adapt to spending money faster, and unless a bgher is an ex low min player with good macro, i think it'll be over. I used to play east bgh 2v2s when i was bored, and they could never macro while fighting as well as me, and would always lose to macro eventually :O
Testie/daze lost 1-3 to BGHers. Testie/idra won 4-3. Testie/mondi lost 0-1.
Nobody's saying they cant win, only that it wont be a rout.
On January 13 2007 03:30 hasuwar wrote: you guys are crazy or stupid to think testie wouldn't win vs bghers.. from what it looks like, he plays bgh racewars all the time on west, or the twot imes i've went there and knows how to play bgh. aint hard to adapt to spending money faster, and unless a bgher is an ex low min player with good macro, i think it'll be over. I used to play east bgh 2v2s when i was bored, and they could never macro while fighting as well as me, and would always lose to macro eventually :O
Uhh if they couldn't "macro while fighting" they were newbs or semi newbs. Decent BGH players can multitask quite well, whereas top tier players are almost infallible in this respect.
On January 13 2007 03:30 hasuwar wrote: you guys are crazy or stupid to think testie wouldn't win vs bghers.. from what it looks like, he plays bgh racewars all the time on west, or the twot imes i've went there and knows how to play bgh. aint hard to adapt to spending money faster, and unless a bgher is an ex low min player with good macro, i think it'll be over. I used to play east bgh 2v2s when i was bored, and they could never macro while fighting as well as me, and would always lose to macro eventually :O
Testie/daze lost 1-3 to BGHers. Testie/idra won 4-3. Testie/mondi lost 0-1.
Nobody's saying they cant win, only that it wont be a rout.
me/testie/mondi won 4-0 or 5-0, i dont think testie/mondi ever 2v2ed them
Not to say babotoss/vivaldi aren't very good, but they're not hDn level.
And I'm not even saying you guys cant 5-0 hDn. Its definitely possible, but scorelines of 4-1, 3-2, 2-3, 1-4 and 5-0 are also possible, even if (much) less so.
I'm only trying to refute the "BGHers have no chance in hell" opinion (on BGH).
And for the record, I think testie would beat koolam 5-0 or maybe 4-1 (assuming a "lucky" win or mistakes on testie's part or a surprising build or something blah blah) on low maps. Though I doubt they'd be 10 minute rapes.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
Why write so much? Testie is one of the most talented SC players ever. He is good enough to win against top korean players so there is a good chance he will win against top BGH players.
On January 13 2007 03:38 Gandalf wrote: Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
low maps generally lead to more micro and more different kinds of micro meaning that he has more experience with unit control in general, but i dont think i ever played koolam so i dont really know how they compare.
those games were fun, we should play more of them.
On January 13 2007 05:40 Hot_Bid wrote: er isnt this going to be between normal forum members, not the elite? in that case why is everyone talking about if testie would win on bgh
all its going to do is expose how bad normal forum members of TL are on bgh and how bad their forum members are on low
just from glancing over the site it seems like theirs is more of a small community site whereas tl.net draws a far wider range of people, their average forum member is gonna be closer to their best in skill than tl's i think.
gandalf, i think we CAN safely assume that the top low money guys are more talented than the BGH guys.
we can all pretty much agree that the main advantage the top BGH players have is that they've played the map more than testie or mondragon or whoever.
if testie and mondragon played BGH as much (or even 1/2 as much) as the BGH guys did, even you said that they'd win. that translates to more talent.
i mean take it to the extreme, if we have Nada and Savior playing BGH, less than a dozen games and they'd be the best BGH players. yes it'd take longer than the top foreigners (less talent) but the potential is still there.
regardless thats not what this showmatch is about.
Are there going to be any rules on postcount/time joined ect to play? I assume we want "known regulars" to play. Not that I'm brave enough to play due to being rusty as hell.
The replays I've seen (looking for pimpest plays) were of just average PvP hunters skill compared to korean lowhunters tosswars kor-asia style. I assueme that if it was koolam who won vs fayth, then that guy can play really good vs top kor teamplay teams. I assume that there are other players on his level too. I do want to see him play even if he want really a part of their community ect. I mean we have players better than fayth that could play him. It's just for fun anyways.
Did not think this post fully through coz my nose started to bleed.
The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
On January 13 2007 06:19 Aphelion02 wrote: The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
i played alot of BGH with the european BGH community (mainly obsed ) from what i can say it's not "taking the blue pill". its just BGH is less of a challenge to have fun but skilled games when you don't have 3+ hours a day to spend on BW. being even decent on low money takes you an awful lot of time where you have no/very little fun while playing, especially when you have no RL friends to play with you or at least some online buddies. The more skilled people of the european community even play hunters or play on the asian b.net. (don't flame me about that, it does make a difference!) They enjoy BW just like all the other players, from the comp stompers to the fa$te$t guys to UMS players. we all play the same game, and everybody enjoys it just the way he is most comfortable with.
i for my part don't even play BW actively anymore, but i enjoy theorycrafting as much as watching replays/oberserving or the watching MSL/OSL. not a blue pill, either. just the way i do it.
edit: corrected the funniest typo that ever happened to me.
... The scores are wrong on BGH.. Testie / Daze lost 3-4 didn't we? Testie / Idra won I can't remember.
Testie / Mondragon / Idra went 5-0 (but Kural aka Koolam did not play)
Testie / Kural are 17-0 vs BGHers. He's an amazing ally. And he will be difficult to beat on BGH & possibly low. He's quite talented. I really like how his units are always moving, and killing peoples at a greater rate. He's used to constant warfare with his units. I'm sure with enough practice, and if he were a low player, he'd still be known.
On January 13 2007 05:40 Hot_Bid wrote: er isnt this going to be between normal forum members, not the elite? in that case why is everyone talking about if testie would win on bgh
all its going to do is expose how bad normal forum members of TL are on bgh and how bad their forum members are on low
just from glancing over the site it seems like theirs is more of a small community site whereas tl.net draws a far wider range of people, their average forum member is gonna be closer to their best in skill than tl's i think.
Agreed. My money is on BGHers.com . In addition to your point, they specialize on BGH and are going to have much better timing and knowledge of strategies on that map than almost anyone here (the only exception I can think of is Testie).
Testie/Kural is a strong team, 0-3 vs them. GG's we play again ;P
Also, most of you guys who are posting here negatively about the map BGH and its players, you guys seemed to relate strongly to public games. I mean come on, are the public 1v1 games any good too? You guys all play in separate channels and make a separate private room for 1v1 right? Thats exactly what us, at BGHers.com do too. Its just too general for you guys to describe us like that. I, too was a low money map player, always so proud about how much wins I can settle in public games. Until you start playing inhouses with the known BGH players, you will learn more about the map. Its just not about build order, micro, and macro, its more in depths of strategy, teamwork, timing too. I'm sure you guys have WOWed over the p wars done in Brood War Kor-Asia of Asia server. It's exactly like that, the difference that stands is a slight change in build order because of the resources gained from Hunters and BGH.
Gandalf, are you just making up the scores on the past TL games on BGH? Testie and Idra, both who played the matches, have refuted your claims. It's like you're just pulling the scores out your ass the whole time to make your argument. If you don't know what the scores were, don't mention what they were, it's very disingenious, especially when you try to use it to support your argument.
On January 13 2007 06:19 Aphelion02 wrote: The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
In addition to the fact that they probably see more depth in BGH than you or I (which I guess is the aim of your post: to find out what they know about BGH that we don't), different people weigh different forms of entertainment and fun differently. In the end it'll probably come down to these individual differences for why people prefer one or the other (which results in repetitive posts like "but BGH has less of X than low-money" and so on).
On January 13 2007 06:19 Aphelion02 wrote: The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
In addition to the fact that they probably see more depth in BGH than you or I (which I guess is the aim of your post: to find out what they know about BGH that we don't), different people weigh different forms of entertainment and fun differently. In the end it'll probably come down to these individual differences for why people prefer one or the other (which results in repetitive posts like "but BGH has less of X than low-money" and so on).
It's just like what Bill just said, "different people weigh different forms of entertainment and fun differently." Another reason would be the people around them. I have 2 accounts, One I play with BGHers, and the other I play low money maps with my clan, Go)G. The people around me in each account influence me to play different maps. But I feel more excited in playing BGH because of the atmosphere of the 2v2. It is so breathtaking and each move can determine the outcome, just like how 1v1 gives the players.
And, Testie and Idra have played kOOlam and Babotoss. I am not sure how many games, but I've just seen one of them.
Some of koolam's replays can be found at BGHers.com in the downloads section. But the replays of the games that testie,idra, koolam, and others play, I won't upload it.
On January 13 2007 06:13 Hot_Bid wrote: gandalf, i think we CAN safely assume that the top low money guys are more talented than the BGH guys.
we can all pretty much agree that the main advantage the top BGH players have is that they've played the map more than testie or mondragon or whoever.
if testie and mondragon played BGH as much (or even 1/2 as much) as the BGH guys did, even you said that they'd win. that translates to more talent.
i mean take it to the extreme, if we have Nada and Savior playing BGH, less than a dozen games and they'd be the best BGH players. yes it'd take longer than the top foreigners (less talent) but the potential is still there.
regardless thats not what this showmatch is about.
Nada/Savior is different, they could beat anyone without playing the map, just looking at it before hand.
I'm only saying its possible the the talent-advantage testie has MIGHT not be enough to overcome the extra practice advantage BGH players have.
Also talent has different aspects. Talent could be talent in mechanical skills, or in strategical analyses etc etc. A great header isnt always a great dribbler. Some shitty players make great coaches, and some great coaches make shitty players. Obviously testie has more talent when it comes to strategical game play. Mechanical talent, I'm not so sure. Maybe, maybe not. But I believe in this regard testie and koolam would be very, very close. Also, on BGH, strategical play matters very little as opposed to mechanical/technical strengths.
On January 13 2007 03:38 Gandalf wrote: Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
low maps generally lead to more micro and more different kinds of micro meaning that he has more experience with unit control in general, but i dont think i ever played koolam so i dont really know how they compare.
those games were fun, we should play more of them.
Yep, low maps need more micro overall + more diverse micro, and low players are obviouly superior in this regard. BGH players will definitely be poor with mid and late game units.
Early game micro I think top BGH players will be around as good as top low players. A little less, or maybe a little more, but with very little difference. Why? Because every single decent skilled game in BGH involves hardcore early unit micro.
On January 13 2007 07:27 MYM.Testie wrote: ... The scores are wrong on BGH.. Testie / Daze lost 3-4 didn't we? Testie / Idra won I can't remember.
Testie / Mondragon / Idra went 5-0 (but Kural aka Koolam did not play)
Testie / Kural are 17-0 vs BGHers. He's an amazing ally. And he will be difficult to beat on BGH & possibly low. He's quite talented. I really like how his units are always moving, and killing peoples at a greater rate. He's used to constant warfare with his units. I'm sure with enough practice, and if he were a low player, he'd still be known.
You/daze lost 1-3. You/idra won 4-3.
Trust me, these scores are accurate. If you play I always make sure I know the score.
I think I can have fwiffo dig out the thread for this if he's got it archived, if you like.
On January 13 2007 05:40 Hot_Bid wrote: er isnt this going to be between normal forum members, not the elite? in that case why is everyone talking about if testie would win on bgh
all its going to do is expose how bad normal forum members of TL are on bgh and how bad their forum members are on low
just from glancing over the site it seems like theirs is more of a small community site whereas tl.net draws a far wider range of people, their average forum member is gonna be closer to their best in skill than tl's i think.
Agreed. My money is on BGHers.com . In addition to your point, they specialize on BGH and are going to have much better timing and knowledge of strategies on that map than almost anyone here (the only exception I can think of is Testie).
On January 13 2007 08:44 EscPlan9 wrote: Gandalf, are you just making up the scores on the past TL games on BGH? Testie and Idra, both who played the matches, have refuted your claims. It's like you're just pulling the scores out your ass the whole time to make your argument. If you don't know what the scores were, don't mention what they were, it's very disingenious, especially when you try to use it to support your argument.
Relax and stop being so offensive. The scores I mentioned are 100% accurate. BGHers.com made a big deal out of this cuz they won with an overall score of 6-5(3-4 + 3-1). I believe I have at least some of those reps, but I'll have to look for them. I believe the admins of bghers.com might be pull out their old news report (it was on the older version of the site).
Neither testie nor idra have "refuted" the scores I stated. Idra only added they won 5-0 (vs non-hDn). Testie metioned different scores, but stated he does not remember clearly.
I have absolutely no reason to lie. Why the fuck would I? God knows how many people saw and followed those matches. I would have to be both retarded AND unscrupulous to make up scores -_-
Whats more, I was rooting for TESTIE during those games.
I could release our BGH replays if you'd like and gather them up and upload them. The ones of Testie/Mondi/Idra & Me and Koolam I think Daze / I's were already uploaded to bgh.net some time ago but I can include them as well.
When allied, koolam outplays me in a lot of the games. Often i'm zerg, and have been rushed, or had to go all lings early yet not quite dead but can no longer build helpful units, so i sunken and macro and while I do that, without even building cannons for defense he trusts his units and uses them well that he can take armies that are bigger than his out. Last game he did that I thought to myself.. "if I had any other ally they'd of lost and blamed me for not having units to help them."
I've got seven reps from the testie/idra/daze vs koolam/merf/babotoss. 4 of testie/idra vs them, 3 of testie/daze vs them. I'm not sure if its ok to upload them though -_-
On January 13 2007 09:46 MYM.Testie wrote: Often i'm zerg, and have been rushed, or had to go all lings early yet not quite dead but can no longer build helpful units, so i sunken and macro and while I do that, without even building cannons for defense he trusts his units and uses them well that he can take armies that are bigger than his out. Last game he did that I thought to myself.. "if I had any other ally they'd of lost and blamed me for not having units to help them."
Merf/Koolam pwn everyone on that map and of the times that a friend of mine and I have played them we got beat very handily. They have awesome teamwork and they play very much like its a low map while still powering off one base because its BGH. Ive never seen them play 1v1 on BGH so Im not sure of their skill level.
Yeah I've never seen koolam play 1;1 BGH ever, but I've heard he is good. I saw the replays of vatos[locos]og beating fayth 6-1 on BGH 6v7. 6v7 BGH is a UMS where the map is rigged so that the players spawn at the 6 o'clock and 7 o'clock. Games are fast and furious and micro intensive because of the proximity.
On January 13 2007 09:46 MYM.Testie wrote: I could release our BGH replays if you'd like and gather them up and upload them. The ones of Testie/Mondi/Idra & Me and Koolam I think Daze / I's were already uploaded to bgh.net some time ago but I can include them as well.
When allied, koolam outplays me in a lot of the games. Often i'm zerg, and have been rushed, or had to go all lings early yet not quite dead but can no longer build helpful units, so i sunken and macro and while I do that, without even building cannons for defense he trusts his units and uses them well that he can take armies that are bigger than his out. Last game he did that I thought to myself.. "if I had any other ally they'd of lost and blamed me for not having units to help them."
i think i speak for all of us when i say
gogogogo release the reps of you and koolam plz^_^
Testie and Idra lost at least one game for sure vs the BGHers and I'm pretty sure it was more than that. I have the replays to prove it and I'll upload them if needed.
In the one for sure, Idra was Z and Testie was T. They were playing vs 2 Ps. Idra got rushed early and taken out but Testie got into the mineral line of one of the other players and killed all his probes and eventually his nexus and he didn't have enough money to rebuild. The guy had a small army left so it was pretty much a 1v1 between Testie and the other BGHer. Somewhere along the line Idra pissed them off by scouting with an ovie for Testie after he was dead so they went back, killed his assimilator and eliminated him. It was an amazing game but eventually Testie lost to mass Carriers and DTs.
Yeah, I sorta remember that game too. I believe testie was a four base terran with mass factories. He built like 10 bunkers at his choke! Actually, I have that rep. I have all the reps that were released for that showmatch (numbering 7 in all).
The 7 I have? They're in my replays folder I don't know if it would be decent to uplaod them without testie's/koolam's permission. What do you think?
3 replays of testie/koolam vs surado/austria (both very strong players) just went up on bghers.com though. You'll find them at the top of the replay list at the left margin.
If for some reason you can't find them, I'll provide you with a link.
i saw a few koolam reps about a year ago, and he really didn't seem all that great. he's probably the best bgh player i've ever seen, but in comparison to foreign players he doesn't really shine. he knows build orders, can micro and macro, etc etc. mind you this was a year ago, so i don't know where he stands now.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness, lack of common sense, and inability to hold your tongue have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant.
irony!
Not at all, actually. But let's pretend, for a moment, it was true. Would it refute anything I said? No. You are a rude and arrogant prick irrespective of me.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness, lack of common sense, and inability to hold your tongue have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
Actually, I love Idra. He's one of my favorite players (and a fine poster). Anyways, the post of his which you quoted (and his other posts) were fine, so if you don't like Idra, find a better thread to flame him in.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant.
irony!
Not at all, actually. But let's pretend, for a moment, it was true. Would it refute anything I said? No. You are a rude and arrogant prick irrespective of me.
i was referring to your posting in general and that you're obsessed with me/inc/bly and randomly flame all of us at any given oppurtunity, its also quite ironic you say no one likes me when half of the site is baffled that you arent banned yet.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant.
irony!
Not at all, actually. But let's pretend, for a moment, it was true. Would it refute anything I said? No. You are a rude and arrogant prick irrespective of me.
i was referring to your posting in general and that you're obsessed with me/inc/bly and randomly flame all of us at any given oppurtunity, its also quite ironic you say no one likes me when half of the site is baffled that you arent banned yet.
On January 13 2007 11:29 IdrA wrote: because it will give away super secret build orders? it doesnt really matter
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness, lack of common sense, and inability to hold your tongue have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
Do you have like, pictures of me idra incontrol posted above your bed with your blood painted across our faces in a big "X"? Do you go home everyday and stare at those pictures for three hours while planning out how to stalk every one of our posts so you can type up a reponse that contains the words "arrogant", "dick", "rudeness"? Do you then masterbate to your posts, go to sleep, then do the same thing the next day? Dark]N[exus believe me I know you think I'm arrogant, a dick, and very rude. I heard you like, the first five fucking hunded times you said it. I've never even seen you on b.net before so I don't know why you would think about me so much. All I ask you to do is stop. YES, I am a very important human being and the best starcraft player in North America. YES, I flame retards like you on forums because I am the man. You are nothing, I am the most modest human being you will ever fucking meet. So until you can come up to my level, fuck off and stop responding to my posts.
Oh yea and did I mention I have invented every starcraft build order that have ever existed? I am the messiah of the strategy forum. I've all killed the ]N[exus clan in 1:2 AND 1:3 while taking a shit. I'm the only reason you go to teamliquid, bow to me motherfucker
I don't even understand what you're trying to do. Are you "imitating" me? Are you simply flaming me literally? I think you fail at whatever you are trying to do when you leave me more confused than anything else.
On January 13 2007 12:00 zulu_nation8 wrote: Oh yea and did I mention I have invented every starcraft build order that have ever existed? I am the messiah of the strategy forum. I've all killed the ]N[exus clan in 1:2 AND 1:3 while taking a shit. I'm the only reason you go to teamliquid, bow to me motherfucker
I don't make fun of you for being in that terrible hon_ clan do I? Also, I've never bragged about ]n[ so I don't even understand where you're coming from.
On January 13 2007 12:00 zulu_nation8 wrote: Oh yea and did I mention I have invented every starcraft build order that have ever existed? I am the messiah of the strategy forum. I've all killed the ]N[exus clan in 1:2 AND 1:3 while taking a shit. I'm the only reason you go to teamliquid, bow to me motherfucker
On January 13 2007 12:03 Carnac wrote: or you could mail them to carnac311@gmail.com i'll, i'd host them on tlnet webspace
Hey thanks a bunch, but I just uploaded them at bghers.com. It will take a little while for them to be "approved" and appear in the replay list, and I'll provide a link as soon as thats done.
On September 23 2006 20:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: He just doesn't want you insulting the foreigners wins. But I agree, the Koreans don't really seem to give a rat's ass about this tourney.
P.S. Zulu you arrogant fuck, Sea.Pie does not suck. You should be the one who quits posting until you can quit acting like you're a fucking pro, it's goddamn annoying.
Yes it is very annoying I know, I can't help it if I was born to be a pro
On December 21 2006 22:27 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Ok that's so much bullshit. You and I both know you're nowhere near A- level Zulu, so what is this shit about being A- level to get to try out.
You and I both? Who's you, who are you? you seem to know a lot about me while you've never talked to be on b.net or didn't have the balls to say youre darknexus. You understand that this constitues as "stalker" like behavior right?
On October 10 2006 16:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: I don't put alot of people down
The people I put down are:
Nony Incontrol (on occasion) Idra (especially) Zulu
On January 11 2007 21:28 zulu_nation8 wrote: They re'ed immediately after and midian raped ambition in 10 minutes with muta/ling. First game he lost his two expo hatches was the only reason the game lasted that long.
Why are you defending him vs nobody's insults. Also, that's like saying "the only reason I lost was because I lost all my barracks." Well no shit.
I'm not defending him I was just stating what had happened. Cuz you know, defending needs something to defend against as you pointed out. More importantly what did that comment have to do with you? Did you miss me too much that you had to get my attention again?
Hey thanks a bunch, but I just uploaded them at bghers.com. It will take a little while for them to be "approved" and appear in the replay list, and I'll provide a link as soon as thats done.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
(Even though I'm pages late..)
You didn't need to make such a long post for this Chris, it's pretty simple to argue. If testies micro is as good as koolams, which I would bet my money on it, thats all there is to it. Nothing further.
Hey thanks a bunch, but I just uploaded them at bghers.com. It will take a little while for them to be "approved" and appear in the replay list, and I'll provide a link as soon as thats done.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
(Even though I'm pages late..)
You didn't need to make such a long post for this Chris, it's pretty simple to argue. If testies micro is as good as koolams, which I would bet my money on it, thats all there is to it. Nothing further.
Well after you completely misinterpreted my relatively succinctly stated arguments, what was I to do? I felt compelled to make a full blown example-assisted explanation!
Your current argument I can agree with because it doesn't make any outrageous assessments
Now I wont have to kill you! Or, I can kill you, but then I'd have to tell you.
Hey thanks a bunch, but I just uploaded them at bghers.com. It will take a little while for them to be "approved" and appear in the replay list, and I'll provide a link as soon as thats done.
On January 13 2007 12:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: I don't even understand what you're trying to do. Are you "imitating" me? Are you simply flaming me literally? I think you fail at whatever you are trying to do when you leave me more confused than anything else.
On January 13 2007 12:00 zulu_nation8 wrote: Oh yea and did I mention I have invented every starcraft build order that have ever existed? I am the messiah of the strategy forum. I've all killed the ]N[exus clan in 1:2 AND 1:3 while taking a shit. I'm the only reason you go to teamliquid, bow to me motherfucker
I don't make fun of you for being in that terrible hon_ clan do I? Also, I've never bragged about ]n[ so I don't even understand where you're coming from.
How the fuck do you know which clan I'm in? WHO ARE YOU GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME STOP FUCKING STALKING ME I AM HONEST TO GOD CREEPED OUT BY YOU. You won't tell me your b.net ID, but you fucking watch my every move. jesus christ you are a FUCKING WEIRDO. UGH.
And no you have never made a thread asking people if they knew what the nexus clan was. but more importantly, stay the fuck away from me.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
(Even though I'm pages late..)
You didn't need to make such a long post for this Chris, it's pretty simple to argue. If testies micro is as good as koolams, which I would bet my money on it, thats all there is to it. Nothing further.
Well after you completely misinterpreted my relatively succinctly stated arguments, what was I to do? I felt compelled to make a full blown example-assisted explanation!
Your current argument I can agree with because it doesn't make any outrageous assessments
Now I wont have to kill you! Or, I can kill you, but then I'd have to tell you.
There have been no outrageous statements that I have said. BGH 1v1 focuses completely on what I have previously said (PvP). It's micro, macroing while you micro (off of 2-6 or whatever gates if the game lasts really long), knowing when to add more gates, and knowing when to transition to a higher tech.. meaning goons/dt. It's very simple when you think about it.
On January 13 2007 07:27 MYM.Testie wrote: ... The scores are wrong on BGH.. Testie / Daze lost 3-4 didn't we? Testie / Idra won I can't remember.
Testie / Mondragon / Idra went 5-0 (but Kural aka Koolam did not play)
Testie / Kural are 17-0 vs BGHers. He's an amazing ally. And he will be difficult to beat on BGH & possibly low. He's quite talented. I really like how his units are always moving, and killing peoples at a greater rate. He's used to constant warfare with his units. I'm sure with enough practice, and if he were a low player, he'd still be known.
I would love to see some replays if you can share them
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
(Even though I'm pages late..)
You didn't need to make such a long post for this Chris, it's pretty simple to argue. If testies micro is as good as koolams, which I would bet my money on it, thats all there is to it. Nothing further.
Well after you completely misinterpreted my relatively succinctly stated arguments, what was I to do? I felt compelled to make a full blown example-assisted explanation!
Your current argument I can agree with because it doesn't make any outrageous assessments
Now I wont have to kill you! Or, I can kill you, but then I'd have to tell you.
There have been no outrageous statements that I have said. BGH 1v1 focuses completely on what I have previously said (PvP). It's micro, macroing while you micro (off of 2-6 or whatever gates if the game lasts really long), knowing when to add more gates, and knowing when to transition to a higher tech.. meaning goons/dt. It's very simple when you think about it.
I was hyperbolizing when I said "outrageous", but this is what I was talking about:
"I'm pretty sure that given a week of solid practice Testie would be the best in bgh 1v1.. if he isn't already. PvP = bgh 1v1, and we all know testies pvp is good as hell already. ;o"
==> I disagree about the length of time only.
"Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week."
==> Same thing.
"You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already."
==> Hmmm no? I never did? I CLEARLY stated SEVERAL times that learning BGH strategy and builds was the easiest thing in the world.
I have no doubt that testie is already familiar with the most viable builds and strats on BGH. He's played it quite a bit.
In your current post you've again talked about "knowing when to add gates", "knowing when to transition to a higher tech......meaning goons/dt." ==> I dont know why you're saying this to me, because I've already established that this is indeed easy????!!!
Soon we will have a super gosu comment on this. I hope he will be more convincing than me.
On January 13 2007 02:52 Gandalf wrote: I think a week is too little. You forget that top BGH players have played protoss and PvP far more then testie (since his being random means he plays all 9 match ups). Saying that testi'es PvP is better than any top BGHers PvP implies he is more "talented" than them. How can we make this assumption? Just because they play a different, less complicated map doesn't mean they're any less skilled.
The BGH elite have insanely good zealot/goon micro (and the other aspects of their game are very solid too), and they probably have had about 4x more practice at it than testie.
Oh c'mon now Chris. Testie is a great player, and could EASILY get to top "Bgh" status within a week. Do you really think it would be so difficult for him to adapt? All he needs to "learn" is at exactly what point to add the 3rd and 4th and so on gateway. I bet his micro is as good if not better than the best bghers 1v1 players, whoever they may be.. since there aren't that many.
All 1v1 BGH = is zealot micro early game, then late game goon production. The only difficult parts are knowing when to add gates, the constant micro/macro from 2-6 gates (which shouldn't be a problem for one of the best players) and transitioning to goons/dt tech. You make it sound like its the most difficult thing to learn for a ridiculously good player already.
You've misinterpreted my post completely. I don't know why you're arguing about assimilating BGH strategies. I've clearly stated several times that strategy-wise BGH is a shallow map. Testie would need perhaps a day to deconstruct and assimilate all viable builds. Its easy as hell to learn BGH strategy, and I've said that repeatedly, so you've drawn a fallacious conclusion and have tried to counter it. Learning BGH BO's and when to add gates is easy as shit, so I don't quite get what you're trying to prove by hammering it in.
Testies mid and late game micro might be better than BGH players, but I wouldn't be so sure about early game micro. Players like koolam have very, very solid micro with zealots and goons, and in a PvP on BGH, zealots and goons and early game play a major role. Its also hard to accurately assess micro and macro by watching replays, unless its BoxeR or oov or someone like that and the micro is some uber fancy shit. But when you play them, you realize the strength and the skill. I know this by personal experience. I've seen testie max out in 14 minutes and wondered, what is so awesome about that? I've done it in less! And I've never seen a testie rep where he did some crazy control move that left me wowed. But when I played him a few times, I was completely blown away. There was this one game where Pickle and I managed to kill of testie's ally in a 2;2 and it was rendered a 1v2. Testie was a two base toss, pickle was a THREE base toss, I was a two base zerg. Thats 5 bases to 2. But when we met in our first big battle, it was - a draw. We all lost all our units. Testie had more mass than pickle, and his micro and storms were picture perfect. (Five bases meant we recovered faster so we did win)
Players like koolam have had 9 years of predominantly protoss practice. Testie, on the other hand, is a random player, which means roughly a third of his matches have given him protoss over the same amount of time. The OBVIOUS conclusion is that the ONLY way testie can have better control is IF he has GREATER INNATE TALENT. I fully agree that this is ENTIRELY possible, but you must also admit the possibility that it is NOT, and that koolam might actually have greater technical potential. Or are you going to state that there is no way in hell koolam could have better zealot/goon micro because testie is testie and is a low map player?
I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just trying to make everyone aware of the facts and all the possibilities. Or at least of what I feel is a just analysis.
(Even though I'm pages late..)
You didn't need to make such a long post for this Chris, it's pretty simple to argue. If testies micro is as good as koolams, which I would bet my money on it, thats all there is to it. Nothing further.
Well after you completely misinterpreted my relatively succinctly stated arguments, what was I to do? I felt compelled to make a full blown example-assisted explanation!
Your current argument I can agree with because it doesn't make any outrageous assessments
Now I wont have to kill you! Or, I can kill you, but then I'd have to tell you.
There have been no outrageous statements that I have said. BGH 1v1 focuses completely on what I have previously said (PvP). It's micro, macroing while you micro (off of 2-6 or whatever gates if the game lasts really long), knowing when to add more gates, and knowing when to transition to a higher tech.. meaning goons/dt. It's very simple when you think about it.
it really doesnt have to be all p.
For 1v1, z is basically out of the running. A good terran could do really well on bgher 1v1.. it's just that no one has really stepped up to the plate to prove that. ;p
I worded it wrong, but I was mainly focusing on the Testie vs Koolam theory.. since I would assume that both would pick P.
On January 13 2007 07:27 MYM.Testie wrote: ... The scores are wrong on BGH.. Testie / Daze lost 3-4 didn't we? Testie / Idra won I can't remember.
Testie / Mondragon / Idra went 5-0 (but Kural aka Koolam did not play)
Testie / Kural are 17-0 vs BGHers. He's an amazing ally. And he will be difficult to beat on BGH & possibly low. He's quite talented. I really like how his units are always moving, and killing peoples at a greater rate. He's used to constant warfare with his units. I'm sure with enough practice, and if he were a low player, he'd still be known.
I would love to see some replays if you can share them
The score was testie/daze 1-3 vs hDn testie/idra 4-3 vs hDn
Of these 11 games, the 7 saved reps have been uploaded at bghers.com.
Testie/daze/mondi beat babotoss/vivaldi/fastback 5-0. I dont think reps of those ever got released.
I skimmed your post, but you are making it sound like kOOlam is leaps and bounds above testie in gameplay. I'm just saying that testie's micro is (most likely) as good if not better than koolams. Of course we don't know yet since we dont have any games played between them. I don't think testie will manhandle koolam in anyway.. I'm just saying that it will not take that long for testie to adapt to the map.
It's very simple compared to other maps. Yes, it does take skill, and a lot of it, but it's not a hard task at all to adapt to the map. Zealot and goon micro are easy enough, and multitasking is easy for an already great player.
Testie / Kural are 17-0 vs BGHers. He's an amazing ally. And he will be difficult to beat on BGH & possibly low. He's quite talented. I really like how his units are always moving, and killing peoples at a greater rate. He's used to constant warfare with his units. I'm sure with enough practice, and if he were a low player, he'd still be known.
On January 13 2007 09:46 MYM.Testie wrote:
When allied, koolam outplays me in a lot of the games. Often i'm zerg, and have been rushed, or had to go all lings early yet not quite dead but can no longer build helpful units, so i sunken and macro and while I do that, without even building cannons for defense he trusts his units and uses them well that he can take armies that are bigger than his out. Last game he did that I thought to myself.. "if I had any other ally they'd of lost and blamed me for not having units to help them."
If testie himself has acknowledged the possibility, no matter how remote, that he could lose, the argument is closed.
And I'm pretty sure, whatever the outcomes (win or lose) Testie and Koolam will both feel great about the game itself being a "GG." We, who are just observing, are the ones making the biggest deals out of it. So let's just kick back, grab some popcorn, watch the replay and say GG.
On January 13 2007 14:54 BalloonFight wrote: I skimmed your post, but you are making it sound like kOOlam is leaps and bounds above testie in gameplay. I'm just saying that testie's micro is (most likely) as good if not better than koolams. Of course we don't know yet since we dont have any games played between them. I don't think testie will manhandle koolam in anyway.. I'm just saying that it will not take that long for testie to adapt to the map.
It's very simple compared to other maps. Yes, it does take skill, and a lot of it, but it's not a hard task at all to adapt to the map. Zealot and goon micro are easy enough, and multitasking is easy for an already great player.
There kyle, you're at it again. Pull out any statements I make which "make it sound like koolam is leaps and bounds above testie in gameplay".
About testies micro, I have REPEATEDLY said his mid game and late game micro will DEFINITELY be better than koolams.
"It will not take that long for testie to adapt to the map" ==> adaptation implies learning BOs, strategies, learning the nuances of the map, and timing. I've already said thats easy.
"Zealot and goon micro are easy enough" ==> While zealot/goon and other forms of micro may be very easy to learn, the slope is very, very long.
I won't be making any further posts unless something new is mentioned -_-
Since testie has himself acknowledged the possibility he could lose, I dont see what the argument is. Nobody's saying koolam will win. Only that the possibility that he might should be recognized. Even if he wins only one or two games.
i don't think testie's success comes from incredible micro or macro. even though his micro is decent, and his macro is pretty good.
what makes him a good player is his excellent understanding of the game gained from massive amounts of playing. he knows how to focus on the big picture.
this is why i can see koolam winning a series on bgh if his micro/macro are really that good. especially since bgh is very limited in terms of strategy (like luna).
On January 13 2007 15:16 CoralReefer wrote: what makes him a good player is his excellent understanding of the game gained from massive amounts of playing...
BaboToss wanted me to play it the same day as tl.net vs BGH. Low maps not really decided, you guys can if you'd like. Throw in a neat strategy one like 815 for kicks.
Requiem (My favorite) Ride of Valkyries (Good macro map for BGHers) Tau Cross Luna (BGHers are very familiar with this, have to include it) Rush Hour 3 Arkanoid (Strategy map, switch to 815 if Kural is too unfamiliar with it) Nostalgia (Old classic map)
Just for kicks: Neo Forbidden Zone (Isn't this like Testie's specialty map, just like BGH is for Kural?) Blood Bath (Top low money player vs Top BGHer on a map neither of them usually play)
On January 13 2007 06:19 Aphelion02 wrote: The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
i played alot of BGH with the european BGH community (mainly obsed ) from what i can say it's not "taking the blue pill". its just BGH is less of a challenge to have fun but skilled games when you don't have 3+ hours a day to spend on BW. being even decent on low money takes you an awful lot of time where you have no/very little fun while playing, especially when you have no RL friends to play with you or at least some online buddies. The more skilled people of the european community even play hunters or play on the asian b.net. (don't flame me about that, it does make a difference!) They enjoy BW just like all the other players, from the comp stompers to the fa$te$t guys to UMS players. we all play the same game, and everybody enjoys it just the way he is most comfortable with.
i for my part don't even play BW actively anymore, but i enjoy theorycrafting as much as watching replays/oberserving or the watching MSL/OSL. not a blue pill, either. just the way i do it.
edit: corrected the funniest typo that ever happened to me.
On January 13 2007 06:19 Aphelion02 wrote: The main thing is, I can't figure out why BGHers who have even been exposed to low money would stick with BGH. Is it cause its easier to find games, playing with a team, or afraid of being a noob at low money and losing their status as elite players in their own realms? That seems like picking the blue pill to me.
i played alot of BGH with the european BGH community (mainly obsed ) from what i can say it's not "taking the blue pill". its just BGH is less of a challenge to have fun but skilled games when you don't have 3+ hours a day to spend on BW. being even decent on low money takes you an awful lot of time where you have no/very little fun while playing, especially when you have no RL friends to play with you or at least some online buddies. The more skilled people of the european community even play hunters or play on the asian b.net. (don't flame me about that, it does make a difference!) They enjoy BW just like all the other players, from the comp stompers to the fa$te$t guys to UMS players. we all play the same game, and everybody enjoys it just the way he is most comfortable with.
i for my part don't even play BW actively anymore, but i enjoy theorycrafting as much as watching replays/oberserving or the watching MSL/OSL. not a blue pill, either. just the way i do it.
edit: corrected the funniest typo that ever happened to me.
I deny that most UMSes are the same game as we play. Its like DoTA vs War3.
Hey, umm, this is for the people that are gonna play from TL.net (terrans actually), since you don't have too much experience with BGH, and this can save games:
It's a series of 10 pictures showing how to block perfectly on any position using supply/barracks (yes, vs lings too, tested it myself). Also how to block both 11 and 12 positions with one barracks.
Hope it helps, sorry for the annoying pop-up, but it's just an old free domain I had lying around , and decided not to fill tl.net forum with pics.
Basicly, you don't have to really remember all of them, just follow the simple rule: Supply above barracks. Notice that in all of the positions the supply is on top of the barracks. Be it with one matrix or two, or even straight above it. There might be other positions but I'm too lazy to test them all. These work. Hope it helps.
Frankly, if they get to pick BGH, they should get no say in the low-money (if it's just one), and I'd avoid LT, Luna, and ROV, as these are all overplayed. If you said how many maps there'd be, I missed it, but maybe BGH (their pick), one we pick, and one we agree upon? Current starleague maps may be good, as they would have seen them but not played too much on them (like we've seen bgh, but don't play it really). I did play BGH for 7 years though, so I'm probably still better at 3v3 BGH than 1v1 low-money.
Anyone practicing 3v3 bgh, I would recommend doing so on EAST, because I think that's where most of their players play. I need practice on everything, so let me know if anyone wants to practice.
Also, what will be the scale of this tournament? 6 players from each site? 60? I don't remember seeing any approximation. Thanks.
Guys, im sorry but i dont think koolam stands a chance vs testie. I do believe however koolam (if he played low money) could get a decently high rank if pgt was still up, A- or B+, BUT, CMON guys... testie could get ultimate rank, and he COULD snag some wins vs pros.
If this was a match with like koolam vs strafe or daze, i'd say it could go either way, but testie is beyond this.
I saw replays of koolam, and let me tell you HIS beginnin goon micro is CRAZY with accurate clicks and full effectiveness of the units. However, I could name 50 players that could execute the same micro as well if not better.
BGH has almost the same elements as low money. The difference is MORE CASH, and differnt strategies. All testie would have to do is watch like 20 replays of bgh, learn the strats and the game flow. Then watch a few reps of koolam and see how he plays.
Automatically testies macro > koolams macro
since testie has good macro on a low money map, and low money macroing can be a lot harder then bgh macro (even though you get more income)
Micro wise, bgh is micro intensive in the beginning, low money is micro intensive begin-middle, and Still pretty important towards the end.
I don't want to sound bitchy, bud did you read the thread? First of all, Testie has played a lot of BGH (tho i believe most of it was 2v2/3v3 rather than 1v1). He played teamed up with koolam and he SAID IT HIMSELF that there is a chance he could lose to him on bgh. Why go on about this? If the man said it himself. I mean yes, he's probably a better player, but he's not totally in his element. So things might happen. Please watch some more replays of koolam and you'll see he also macros effectively too. Like expand, build a ton of gateways, etc.
And besides, strafe or daze could win vs testie too, even though on a bo5 or so they're most likely to lose, so I don't really see the point of your post.
On January 14 2007 02:02 pr0n wrote: Frankly, if they get to pick BGH, they should get no say in the low-money (if it's just one), and I'd avoid LT, Luna, and ROV, as these are all overplayed. If you said how many maps there'd be, I missed it, but maybe BGH (their pick), one we pick, and one we agree upon? Current starleague maps may be good, as they would have seen them but not played too much on them (like we've seen bgh, but don't play it really). I did play BGH for 7 years though, so I'm probably still better at 3v3 BGH than 1v1 low-money.
Anyone practicing 3v3 bgh, I would recommend doing so on EAST, because I think that's where most of their players play. I need practice on everything, so let me know if anyone wants to practice.
Also, what will be the scale of this tournament? 6 players from each site? 60? I don't remember seeing any approximation. Thanks.
If you want to be mean pick Paradoxxx, Requiem or desert fox
I don't see how Requiem is a particularly difficult map to pick up. Its the island maps that will really test the BGHers. I can't really talk though, I can barely play them myself.
I'd actually love to see an island map in the pool. And I don't mean the kind with destructible neutral crap all over which, when destroyed, turn it to land based map. I want to see map like Dire Straits and semi island like Hall Of Valhalla, Gorky Island.
Both players are good, but kural's speciality is teamplay while testie is a 1v1 player. Teamplay and 1v1 are 2 different games, for example in teamplay you use your units to hold, deceive, attack, harass and scare an adverary from your first zealot. Having your army very close to your enemy. While 1v1 you are more setback, either teching army to secure expand etc. or doing nice crazy moves like we see on pro reps (luv em!). Low games alomst always last a lot longer than BGH games, but dont think that this will make kural tired and be unable to play good! Games lasting for hours is somethin BGH'ers have grown up on as their first game on bgh was by making mass defence^^ and trying to kill your adversary that has 965 canons and carriers^^.
As a BGHers myself my instinct is to use my first zealot and kill probes, while teching to goons or protecting my ally with a continously building force if he is teching. Its a complicated strategy of using your units to give you ally time, or kill enemy armies bit by bit while teching to a unit which gives you advantages. Man i cant explain 9 years of bgh gameplay here^^ lol its too much.
Just want to say that everything is completely different in how you think. I think 1v1 requires skills, like creativity, patience, staying cool, micro and macro. While BGH micro, teamplay, macro, agressivity and creativity stands high. BGH players are very agressive. Fast action is what defines the top bgh teamplay level. If you arnt fast enough with nice micro and thought, you lose fast. BGH teamplay games seldom last more than 8-14min. One small mistake of losing units and this team loses. And if you bunker vs a BGH player^^ well hehe, DONT. He will stand outside you and canon his own bases and everywhere else and make bases on the remaining mineralspots and do all kind of tech. drops and brutal attacks. One of the most normal drops on bgh is the templar drop barbequing all your probes. Oo
Personally i think bgh games will be close between these two, in lowmaps on the other hand i think testie's experience with low and 1v1 will slaughter kural.
I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Also there are some people on their player list, for low money only, that I highly doubt are BGHers.com regulars at all. Seem like this thing is ruined before it even got off the ground.
On January 14 2007 09:52 psychosis wrote: Also there are some people on their player list, for low money only, that I highly doubt are BGHers.com regulars at all. Seem like this thing is ruined before it even got off the ground.
=S ? I thought players were supposed to play both --a
On January 14 2007 03:46 CubEdIn[SoD] wrote: I don't want to sound bitchy, bud did you read the thread? First of all, Testie has played a lot of BGH (tho i believe most of it was 2v2/3v3 rather than 1v1). He played teamed up with koolam and he SAID IT HIMSELF that there is a chance he could lose to him on bgh. Why go on about this? If the man said it himself. I mean yes, he's probably a better player, but he's not totally in his element. So things might happen. Please watch some more replays of koolam and you'll see he also macros effectively too. Like expand, build a ton of gateways, etc.
And besides, strafe or daze could win vs testie too, even though on a bo5 or so they're most likely to lose, so I don't really see the point of your post.
i watched some reps of koolam yesterday and i have to agree with the other guy when he said many people have the same micro and macro skills as he does. he makes very good decisions though.
so basically he is similar to testie, not focused on gosu micro/macro, but relies on a good understanding of the game
On January 14 2007 09:52 psychosis wrote: Also there are some people on their player list, for low money only, that I highly doubt are BGHers.com regulars at all. Seem like this thing is ruined before it even got off the ground.
This list what you see, is only the registration list. All kind of people can register, but that doesn't mean that they will play. I myself saw that some ppl registred that are not BGH gamers, these players won't play for sure.
LOL why do people continue to insist that testie only needs a week before he will pwn koolam??
You don't think Testies BEEN playing BGH? He's likely played it 100x more than most people in this form and the ONLY reason he wasn't destroyed like Fayth was because he respected his opponents and he HAS had practice on money maps.
On January 14 2007 08:22 PlayerCraft wrote: Both players are good, but kural's speciality is teamplay while testie is a 1v1 player. Teamplay and 1v1 are 2 different games, for example in teamplay you use your units to hold, deceive, attack, harass and scare an adverary from your first zealot. Having your army very close to your enemy. While 1v1 you are more setback, either teching army to secure expand etc. or doing nice crazy moves like we see on pro reps (luv em!). Low games alomst always last a lot longer than BGH games, but dont think that this will make kural tired and be unable to play good! Games lasting for hours is somethin BGH'ers have grown up on as their first game on bgh was by making mass defence^^ and trying to kill your adversary that has 965 canons and carriers^^.
As a BGHers myself my instinct is to use my first zealot and kill probes, while teching to goons or protecting my ally with a continously building force if he is teching. Its a complicated strategy of using your units to give you ally time, or kill enemy armies bit by bit while teching to a unit which gives you advantages. Man i cant explain 9 years of bgh gameplay here^^ lol its too much.
Just want to say that everything is completely different in how you think. I think 1v1 requires skills, like creativity, patience, staying cool, micro and macro. While BGH micro, teamplay, macro, agressivity and creativity stands high. BGH players are very agressive. Fast action is what defines the top bgh teamplay level. If you arnt fast enough with nice micro and thought, you lose fast. BGH teamplay games seldom last more than 8-14min. One small mistake of losing units and this team loses. And if you bunker vs a BGH player^^ well hehe, DONT. He will stand outside you and canon his own bases and everywhere else and make bases on the remaining mineralspots and do all kind of tech. drops and brutal attacks. One of the most normal drops on bgh is the templar drop barbequing all your probes. Oo
Personally i think bgh games will be close between these two, in lowmaps on the other hand i think testie's experience with low and 1v1 will slaughter kural.
An accurate analysis in my opinion, esp the concluding line.
On January 14 2007 09:52 psychosis wrote: Also there are some people on their player list, for low money only, that I highly doubt are BGHers.com regulars at all. Seem like this thing is ruined before it even got off the ground.
This list what you see, is only the registration list. All kind of people can register, but that doesn't mean that they will play. I myself saw that some ppl registred that are not BGH gamers, these players won't play for sure.
Two of the people who registered are TL.net posters, XDawn and CaucasionAsian!
Why are these low money map players, who haven't even exposed themselves to the BGHers scene, registering to BGHers.com and registering to play for BGHers.com in the showmatch ^^? I think this is what pyschosis is seeing.
probably because they think that is the official place to sign up -- for both TL.neters and bghers
personally i registered for the bghers team because, -manifesto didn't sign me up for the tl.net team -i play bgh a lot on east with friends, so i am somewhat part of the community -it is fun playing with people who have a decent skill level and who know how to work well in a team (e.g. good unit positioning)
On January 14 2007 13:12 CoralReefer wrote: probably because they think that is the official place to sign up -- for both TL.neters and bghers
personally i registered for the bghers team because, -manifesto didn't sign me up for the tl.net team -i play bgh a lot on east with friends, so i am somewhat part of the community -it is fun playing with people who have a decent skill level and who know how to work well in a team (e.g. good unit positioning)
They want people who are part of the BGHERS.COM community, not the BGH community. Otherwise, we can just grab anyone that's great at low-money, register them to TL.net, and stomp the BGHers. If you haven't been a member for a while on their site, and if you don't regularly post, you shouldn't be allowed to play. The same goes for us.
i was reading their thread, and they were allowing other people who are part of the bghers community, but haven't posted, so i don't see what the problem is.
they say their objective is to have the two communities interact, and as you can see, we have had bghers register on this site, essentially becoming part of the TL.net community and vice versa.
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Im pretty sure those two are least of your worries...
On January 14 2007 13:38 CoralReefer wrote: i was reading their thread, and they were allowing other people who are part of the bghers community, but haven't posted, so i don't see what the problem is.
Some of our members are active in the site, but do not post. One of the members do not speak fluent English, but he is quite known, he uploads good replays for us to watch. Other members too are just like that. They just read threads, do other stuffs but does not post in any of the forums. I am sure there are a couple of members in TL.net who are like that. We are allowing these people to play because they ARE part of the bghers community for quite some time. They've been visiting the site regularly and showed cooperation that way.
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Im pretty sure those two are least of your worries...
"Please DO sign up if you wish to represent the BGH Community! For this particular showmatch, skill is irrelevant, so don't be reserved. We are still in the process of marshaling our troops, so go ahead and click the link."
since when is gandalf (or you for that matter) organizing this thing?
i've been playing in motel for probably 2 years now. i know many of the people from bghers. i see no need to go through additional verification which other people who have not registered on bghers.com do not have to go through.
On January 14 2007 15:49 CoralReefer wrote: i see no need to go through additional verification which other people who have not registered on bghers.com do not have to go through.
Do you even know who will be going to the showmatch from BGHers.com? Which othe people did not register at BGHers.com and is representing us? Registering is on your free will. But in the choosing phase, I'm saying there will be a good chance people who have been with the site for a longer time, participating in the forums will be going to the showmatch. Can you see what I mean by this? Also, I am not the organizer for this showmatch. Gandalf has been organizing with fwiffo as well as couple of others from BGHers, and Mani for this showmatch.
Ok lets not fight prematurely, the teams havent been decided yet.
em.and.em = 58freestyle surado-. Can't believe you didnt know that ;p
CoralReefer, we will consider you for the final team, of course. But bear in mind that more people have registered than the number that will constitute the final team, and given the facts that a) you are low on the registration list, b) you have 1547 posts on TL.net and 0 on bghers.com, and c) not a single person on bghers.com knows you, means your chances of making the final team are a bit low.
Of the tentative team we have come up with, only one doesnt regularly post on bghers.com. The reason we are - considering - including him is a) he is korean and cant really speak/type/read english, b) he has posted reps of himself and c) when he wishes to say something on bghers.com, he has surado quote him.
It was made clear in the news that went up that anyone could sign up and that skill would be irrelevant. If you feel less skilled players haven't signed up, you have to realize this is beyond the control of bghers.com.
And I'm quite sure the TL.net team wont consist of "noobs".
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Trust me, Surado- is not even good, I beat him almost all the time ^^ He have to represent BGHers.com because he got the highest posts in our site <--- a pure regular member. And the X-men people are only decent although X-Men-Rain have an APM of 470+, but he is still suck (hahaha)... just kidding about the suck, but Rain is a regular member too, he is No8 in our Top Forum Poster.
Although everybody said this is just for fun, but I am quite sure that nobody want to lose this. I hope to see some good replays from this showmatch. So better choose some of the best tl.net people that have register to Manifesto, or else we all will only get some poor noobish rep.
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Trust me, Surado- is not even good, I beat him almost all the time ^^ He have to represent BGHers.com because he got the highest posts in our site <--- a pure regular member. And the X-men people are only decent although X-Men-Rain have an APM of 470+, but he is still suck (hahaha)... just kidding about the suck, but Rain is a regular member too, he is No8 in our Top Forum Poster.
Although everybody said this is just for fun, but I am quite sure that nobody want to lose this. I hope to see some good replays from this showmatch. So better choose some of the best tl.net people that have register to Manifesto, or else we all will only get some poor noobish rep.
Hey, he'll have to go at it with our top poster FA ^~
yeah i know it said anyone can play but if it's just a bunch of random average skilled people, then the game replays wont turn out real good :-/ and RaiN is a lot better on low money than he is on BGH so don't underestimate him.
On January 14 2007 20:38 evanthebouncy~ wrote: Sweet. We should have more of these strange communities. Hell I wanna start a Team Melee forum already haha :p Or TMM forum. God knows.
BOMBERMAN UMS COMMUNITY
currently consists of me, intriuge, geometryb, and neoillusions
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Trust me, Surado- is not even good, I beat him almost all the time ^^ He have to represent BGHers.com because he got the highest posts in our site <--- a pure regular member. And the X-men people are only decent although X-Men-Rain have an APM of 470+, but he is still suck (hahaha)... just kidding about the suck, but Rain is a regular member too, he is No8 in our Top Forum Poster.
Although everybody said this is just for fun, but I am quite sure that nobody want to lose this. I hope to see some good replays from this showmatch. So better choose some of the best tl.net people that have register to Manifesto, or else we all will only get some poor noobish rep.
Hey, he'll have to go at it with our top poster FA ^~
Surado... do you play Zerg, by any chance?
Haha no I'm not playing =] I'm in a poker frenzy right now for starters, and second - I'm god awful at BGH! I'm almost certain I'd lose.
Gandalf, on battle.net I have Em.and.M account. but this em.and.m thats posting here isn't me. I was floored when i saw that name i dont know who it is but i have my suspicions -_-
On January 14 2007 09:40 Sacajawea wrote: I think tl vs bghers we will lose, cause they putting good players like surado and the x-men people. and we just putting chobo's we should put like a decent team up to represent tl.net like maybe sadist nony so on so forth. i doubt you'd consider them the best we have, but they are good.
Trust me, Surado- is not even good, I beat him almost all the time ^^ He have to represent BGHers.com because he got the highest posts in our site <--- a pure regular member. And the X-men people are only decent although X-Men-Rain have an APM of 470+, but he is still suck (hahaha)... just kidding about the suck, but Rain is a regular member too, he is No8 in our Top Forum Poster.
Although everybody said this is just for fun, but I am quite sure that nobody want to lose this. I hope to see some good replays from this showmatch. So better choose some of the best tl.net people that have register to Manifesto, or else we all will only get some poor noobish rep.
Hey, he'll have to go at it with our top poster FA ^~
Surado... do you play Zerg, by any chance?
Haha no I'm not playing =] I'm in a poker frenzy right now for starters, and second - I'm god awful at BGH! I'm almost certain I'd lose.
Poker is the great Satan that consumes SCBW players like nothing else ;o
On January 14 2007 21:09 58FreeStyle wrote: Gandalf, on battle.net I have Em.and.M account. but this em.and.m thats posting here isn't me. I was floored when i saw that name i dont know who it is but i have my suspicions -_-
it looks like a nice event, i used to be a part of the bgh comunity and posted in the site, but something happened and the site crashed, i lost my acc and never got round to registering again, i still do play alot of bgh on euro, lousy i havent seen you or dakota on euro in a long time where are you. Id like to play in this but my low post count > me
Dakota left SC, and play very very little lately, while I am too occupied with works. Hey, I hope you can join us again in the new website, http://www.bghers.com.
The old site is gone... totally. All data is gone, so as all the replays, news, members, and etc. So no point in recalling your old password and account too.
We have a better head admin today, and he backup data regularly... luckily.
anyways Chris, em.and.em on TL.net is not 58freestyle. Yesterday he was the one first saying "omg who the hell is this em.and.em on TL.net" and we came to one conclusion "its wingsandrox" :D.
Also, yes I am the top poster of BGHers.com --v nice to meet you. LOL and IM LOVING THOSE TMM's BILL ALWAYS MAKES. another new addiction.
On January 14 2007 21:09 58FreeStyle wrote: Gandalf, on battle.net I have Em.and.M account. but this em.and.m thats posting here isn't me. I was floored when i saw that name i dont know who it is but i have my suspicions -_-
Sorry to break it to you but I have that name. Nice try.
On January 14 2007 21:09 58FreeStyle wrote: Gandalf, on battle.net I have Em.and.M account. but this em.and.m thats posting here isn't me. I was floored when i saw that name i dont know who it is but i have my suspicions -_-
Yeah... I'm sure..
When is this taking place anyway?
Its going to be either Jan 20 or Jan 21 Kyle. Mani will pick one of these two.
On January 15 2007 02:12 Surado- wrote: HAHA LOUSY!! YOU ARE FUNNY MAN. ^ ^;
anyways Chris, em.and.em on TL.net is not 58freestyle. Yesterday he was the one first saying "omg who the hell is this em.and.em on TL.net" and we came to one conclusion "its wingsandrox" :D.
Also, yes I am the top poster of BGHers.com --v nice to meet you. LOL and IM LOVING THOSE TMM's BILL ALWAYS MAKES. another new addiction.
On January 15 2007 02:12 Surado- wrote: HAHA LOUSY!! YOU ARE FUNNY MAN. ^ ^;
anyways Chris, em.and.em on TL.net is not 58freestyle. Yesterday he was the one first saying "omg who the hell is this em.and.em on TL.net" and we came to one conclusion "its wingsandrox" :D.
Also, yes I am the top poster of BGHers.com --v nice to meet you. LOL and IM LOVING THOSE TMM's BILL ALWAYS MAKES. another new addiction.
Your stupider than you look...and that amazes me..
Just to let you guys know, I'm ShinSa.ON_FIER on west, and I'm signed up under the bghers.com for low money. I want to represent the BGH community on low money because I play a LOT of 3v3 BGH, but my skill in it isn't particularly great (I'm no koolam or anything) - but in any case, I'm tired of people saying that the BGH community has no skill. A LOT of TL.net posters are registered on bghers.com, and even more of them play bgh. So, the reason I'm registered under low only is because I'd like to show that bgh players have "low money" skill and there are better players at BGH than me.
Also, I'd like to play TL.net at their own game. If tl.net loses on bgh, it's less of a loss because it seems that they don't practice bgh. Nothing can be said about 1v1 on Luna, because that's the single most played map in the past 2 years. The same applies to any pgt map, and I'd even be willing to play the newer maps like vampire and... okay, not hitchhiker, that map is horrid for z.
On January 15 2007 14:30 5HITCOMBO wrote: Also, I'd like to play TL.net at their own game. If tl.net loses on bgh, it's less of a loss because it seems that they don't practice bgh. Nothing can be said about 1v1 on Luna, because that's the single most played map in the past 2 years. The same applies to any pgt map, and I'd even be willing to play the newer maps like vampire and... okay, not hitchhiker, that map is horrid for z.
LonginusII zvt? P jkjk
I really hope that these games will be good natured, because as far as I can tell it seems to be starting to escalate towards bad blood and fighting for pride. --;;
I dont think there is anything wrong with paying BGH, and I think that they are probably going to have better techincal skills then say, someone who has played the same amount of games on Lost Temple. I think BGH demands it, am I right? I prefer the stategy and challenege of low-money maps ( even though I was never as good as I wanted to be ) so that's why I soon switched to Lotem after I looked up some random pictures of smuft and boxer of all people on some korean site, and I was 14 at the time thinking " these guys are fucking bad asssss. i wanna play the same maps they do. "
I have probably played about 10-20 games of BGH my entire SC career, even though I have played thousands of games. I am not toooo familiar with how a respective match between players who are not just turtling and massing will go, so I am going to reserve judgement. I mean, do you even have to expand on BGH? or is it the same as expanding in WC3, where YES, you get an advantage, but it's not so crucial until certain points of the game.
also, I was amazed how testie gave props do that roolam guy for his skills. if testie is impressed with another BW player for anything, then I think you should listen to this. I started playing this game about 5ish years ago, and I started with money of course. Kind of off topic, but do you guys remember how fucking FUN this game was when you first saw say, 23049823048 tanks attacking your photon cannons. It was like OMG these online players are NOTHING to fuck with.
Depends, LT is breeding grounds for some fancy skills. 12 v 3 TvP requires some art on the toss half to stay alive... A lot like 11 vs 12 PvT... but finesse-ier~ cuz of the $$$.
On January 15 2007 14:30 5HITCOMBO wrote: Also, I'd like to play TL.net at their own game. If tl.net loses on bgh, it's less of a loss because it seems that they don't practice bgh. Nothing can be said about 1v1 on Luna, because that's the single most played map in the past 2 years. The same applies to any pgt map, and I'd even be willing to play the newer maps like vampire and... okay, not hitchhiker, that map is horrid for z.
LonginusII zvt? P jkjk
I really hope that these games will be good natured, because as far as I can tell it seems to be starting to escalate towards bad blood and fighting for pride. --;;
Haha, well, we want the matches to be good-natured, but we're sure gonna fight for it . Hope you guys do the same. And yeah, I'd love to zvt you sometime . Hell, even on longinus =P.
Looks like my hopes are dashed anyway. They picked some other people for low money, even though I was the first signed up for low only =/. Oh well. I'll probably be there anyway to put up a few games.
On January 15 2007 14:30 5HITCOMBO wrote: Also, I'd like to play TL.net at their own game. If tl.net loses on bgh, it's less of a loss because it seems that they don't practice bgh. Nothing can be said about 1v1 on Luna, because that's the single most played map in the past 2 years. The same applies to any pgt map, and I'd even be willing to play the newer maps like vampire and... okay, not hitchhiker, that map is horrid for z.
LonginusII zvt? P jkjk
I really hope that these games will be good natured, because as far as I can tell it seems to be starting to escalate towards bad blood and fighting for pride. --;;
Haha, well, we want the matches to be good-natured, but we're sure gonna fight for it . Hope you guys do the same. And yeah, I'd love to zvt you sometime . Hell, even on longinus =P.
haha unfortunately that wont happen b/c a) I cant play T b) I cant play Z c) I suck balls. bigballs.
On January 16 2007 00:38 5HITCOMBO wrote: Looks like my hopes are dashed anyway. They picked some other people for low money, even though I was the first signed up for low only =/. Oh well. I'll probably be there anyway to put up a few games.
maybe we can get some games going among the pple not playing in this event on this side? set up some channels etc?
Yeah, there's basically an open challenge on the side, whoever wants a game can play. I was kinda interested in being in the 1v1 low only specifically, because... well, I know I'm better than a few of the players in the low only pool right now. I'm pretty salty about that, but yeah, guess I just gotta let it go.
But yeah, i'm gonna be on npnl.ON_FIER for the event. My other aka is ShinSa.ON_FIER. Message me anytime for a game .
On January 16 2007 00:53 5HITCOMBO wrote: Yeah, there's basically an open challenge on the side, whoever wants a game can play. I was kinda interested in being in the 1v1 low only specifically, because... well, I know I'm better than a few of the players in the low only pool right now. I'm pretty salty about that, but yeah, guess I just gotta let it go.
But yeah, i'm gonna be on npnl.ON_FIER for the event. My other aka is ShinSa.ON_FIER. Message me anytime for a game .
I'm sure it's disappointing for you personally, but I think the BGHers admins made the right call by choosing players who are probably more of an active participant in the BGHers website, rather than choosing higher skilled players who do play BGH a lot but arent really active in their community. They have kept their end of teh bargain in making this event a good natured ordeal, and I am sure Mani will be doing the same as well.
On January 16 2007 00:53 5HITCOMBO wrote: Yeah, there's basically an open challenge on the side, whoever wants a game can play. I was kinda interested in being in the 1v1 low only specifically, because... well, I know I'm better than a few of the players in the low only pool right now. I'm pretty salty about that, but yeah, guess I just gotta let it go.
But yeah, i'm gonna be on npnl.ON_FIER for the event. My other aka is ShinSa.ON_FIER. Message me anytime for a game .
I'm sure it's disappointing for you personally, but I think the BGHers admins made the right call by choosing players who are probably more of an active participant in the BGHers website, rather than choosing higher skilled players who do play BGH a lot but arent really active in their community. They have kept their end of teh bargain in making this event a good natured ordeal, and I am sure Mani will be doing the same as well.
Yeah, but the thing is, I'm pretty active on the forums. I don't spam or post useless "LOL" comments, but I make a lot of (what I think are) constructive posts... kinda like I do here .
Pickle and Gandalf = lovers? You guys want to be doing that all the way here at TL.net too? Enough with your love drama from BGHers.com take it to the bed. :D:D:D:D!!
It's good to see at least half of our TLlineup is decent. Would be cooler if we had some support of our higher level members ala Control / Midian etc., but hopefully this should be enough to crush anyway. Besides, the losers here will certainly get their heckling from the other TLers
Hehe, so if the TL.netters we send to do battle with the bghers lose and bring shame to all of tl.net they get banned right? I think that extra element of pressure will improve our chances.
"In less than 24 hrs, the greatest showmatch in BGHer's recorded history is set to begin. For far too long, bghers all around the world have been shunned and outcasted, ridiculed by the masses and each time, we fall back. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Not again.
The line must be drawn here!
So bring your friends, bring your kids, for this is an event not to be missed. Today is the day that BGHers will march into a glorious new era of unprecendented recognition and prestige. Rise my loyal minions and support our troops as they bravely charge into the battlefield for honor, for justice, for FREEDOM for bghers everywhere.
Let's show them why BGH is Bigger Greater and HARDER!"
Hahaha so it went from fun show match to BGHers earning "unprecendented[sic] recognition and prestige?"
It really benefits both communities if neither side tries to turn this into something it's not.
"This is simply a fun showmatch between our two communities. If anyone has any hangups or bad manner, please leave it at the door. The point of this exercise is to game with some new people, make some fun reps, and give some exposure to their website. I appreciate everyone for wanting to play, it is what makes our community strong. Lecture over, sorry, it is the school teacher in me that forces me to do that."
-Manifesto7, Teamliquid
In less than 24 hrs, the greatest showmatch in BGHer's recorded history is set to begin. For far too long, bghers all around the world have been shunned and outcasted, ridiculed by the masses and each time, we fall back. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Not again.
The line must be drawn here!
So bring your friends, bring your kids, for this is an event not to be missed. Today is the day that BGHers will march into a glorious new era of unprecendented recognition and prestige. Rise my loyal minions and support our troops as they bravely charge into the battlefield for honor, for justice, for FREEDOM for bghers everywhere.
omg , im so excited , cant wait to know what results would be and see the reps as well My prediction is total ownage on low money maps and very interesting games on BGH Let the fight to begin
"This is simply a fun showmatch between our two communities. If anyone has any hangups or bad manner, please leave it at the door. The point of this exercise is to game with some new people, make some fun reps, and give some exposure to their website. I appreciate everyone for wanting to play, it is what makes our community strong. Lecture over, sorry, it is the school teacher in me that forces me to do that."
In less than 24 hrs, the greatest showmatch in BGHer's recorded history is set to begin. For far too long, bghers all around the world have been shunned and outcasted, ridiculed by the masses and each time, we fall back. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Not again.
The line must be drawn here!
So bring your friends, bring your kids, for this is an event not to be missed. Today is the day that BGHers will march into a glorious new era of unprecendented recognition and prestige. Rise my loyal minions and support our troops as they bravely charge into the battlefield for honor, for justice, for FREEDOM for bghers everywhere.
-fwiffo, BGHers
-----
sighs...
If you know Fwiffo (and even if you don't), it should be extremely obvious that he is joking around.
Hahahaha, this is funny and interesting at the same time.
Well, if you ever follow BGHers.com news from the first day, you will know that the article written by fwiffo doesn't mean anything serious. All news in BGHers.com are funny and "not-that-serious"... so as the players.
We (BGHers) are really... a close family, and everybody knows everybody.
On January 21 2007 06:42 lousy wrote: Hahahaha, this is funny and interesting at the same time.
Well, if you ever follow BGHers.com news from the first day, you will know that the article written by fwiffo doesn't mean anything serious. All news in BGHers.com are funny and "not-that-serious"... so as the players.
We (BGHers) are really... a close family, and everybody knows everybody.
Ya, well - TL is a close family and everybody knows Testie.
"This is simply a fun showmatch between our two communities. If anyone has any hangups or bad manner, please leave it at the door. The point of this exercise is to game with some new people, make some fun reps, and give some exposure to their website. I appreciate everyone for wanting to play, it is what makes our community strong. Lecture over, sorry, it is the school teacher in me that forces me to do that."
In less than 24 hrs, the greatest showmatch in BGHer's recorded history is set to begin. For far too long, bghers all around the world have been shunned and outcasted, ridiculed by the masses and each time, we fall back. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Not again.
The line must be drawn here!
So bring your friends, bring your kids, for this is an event not to be missed. Today is the day that BGHers will march into a glorious new era of unprecendented recognition and prestige. Rise my loyal minions and support our troops as they bravely charge into the battlefield for honor, for justice, for FREEDOM for bghers everywhere.
-fwiffo, BGHers
-----
sighs...
Hahaha! But you fail to mention that the Manifesto quote was also in a news item on bghers.com about the showmatch!! It was mentioned because it reflected their feelings as well
I know you guys are just messing around though Nexus and lousy have said it already: thats the way fwiffo writes and its a very obvious joke. The way people were encouraged to register and the final teams were selected underlines their intention to have a fair and fun showmatch!
On January 20 2007 16:26 borg wrote: i'd like to extend an invitation to all TL who attend tomorrow's showmatch, to not only be there to cheer on your teamates, but also to participate by playing some unscheduled friendly matches against other BGHers who will also be there.
I have prepared a special replay uploader and made it available for everyone, in order to facilitate the collection of replays. Please DO use it for tomorrow's games and let me (fwiffo) know, if you have any suggestions on improving the uploader.
afaik games should be starting 12:00 TL.net time, is that right?
if so, where are the channels to go?
i'd like to play some friendly games against really nooby players or ums for that matter. at least i want to obs games/watch replays afterwards. and cheer for TL.netters!
"This is simply a fun showmatch between our two communities. If anyone has any hangups or bad manner, please leave it at the door. The point of this exercise is to game with some new people, make some fun reps, and give some exposure to their website. I appreciate everyone for wanting to play, it is what makes our community strong. Lecture over, sorry, it is the school teacher in me that forces me to do that."
In less than 24 hrs, the greatest showmatch in BGHer's recorded history is set to begin. For far too long, bghers all around the world have been shunned and outcasted, ridiculed by the masses and each time, we fall back. We've made too many compromises already; too many retreats. Not again.
The line must be drawn here!
So bring your friends, bring your kids, for this is an event not to be missed. Today is the day that BGHers will march into a glorious new era of unprecendented recognition and prestige. Rise my loyal minions and support our troops as they bravely charge into the battlefield for honor, for justice, for FREEDOM for bghers everywhere.
-fwiffo, BGHers
-----
sighs...
IT IS TIME, teamliquid, IT IS TIME FOR WAR! Recently a new website caught the eye of entropy, who posted a highlight video from BGHers.com. Being the fine folks that we are at TL.net, we promptly ripped it to shreds, claiming that the so called "pimpest play" was chobo and childish, and that we V-Tec players had been doing it for years.
Well our cries of scorn did not go unheard. Spawning from this contempt came a challenge from the BGH community. A SHOWMATCH! It is time to defend the honour of TL.
This showmatch was helpfully put together by Gandalf, borg, and yours truely. The goal is to hunt out and destroy the money mappers who have infiltrated our... intigrate the two communities, and find some fun new people to game with. To that end, we have chosen our TL representatives not on the basis of skill, but as a sampling of our forum members. So, without further ado, here is the match!
IT IS TIME, teamliquid, IT IS TIME FOR WAR! Recently a new website caught the eye of entropy, who posted a highlight video from BGHers.com. Being the fine folks that we are at TL.net, we promptly ripped it to shreds, claiming that the so called "pimpest play" was chobo and childish, and that we V-Tec players had been doing it for years.
Simple facts KiLLeR. Ask anyone who was here prior to the overwhelming masses. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages. I for saw this coming & don't care about the result when you use rando's. I DO care about the amount of quality posts though - very few. Not as bad as GG.net though.
In the 3v3s i played i gotta say their team was really good. We couldve prolly used some better planning, but still... For example i was getting beaten in the "1v1" me(toss) and another toss were having in the second game, even though neither of us were getting help from our partners.
sun, the point being, this showmatch was mainly for fun and for the two communities to interact. no ones here to please you. who the fuck are you anyway? no one cares that you dont want to see the results, no ones doing this showmatch for you. of course when a community gets bigger, theres going to be players from every skill level in it, and i dont see anything wrong with it. the only thing wrong with the TL community is faggots like you.
we got raped too 2-1 on bgh the first game was really art by us, probably the best we could have played the second game, dawn didn't get to choose race before it started, so we ended up ppt. the bgh guys were really uptight so we just ended up playing it, got raped third game, we committed to a bad attack, and got raped
they love ppp and they 4, 5, 6 gated zealots, slowly teching to goon every game. dammit
i played my guy 1vs1 in my weak matchup, tvp. we agree on a bo3. game one on neo forte, i get completely faked out, he goes fast dt, i get raped. game two on temple, i was planning a bbs but i chickened out. he goes fast dt again, i stop it with no damage. he drops me, i take no damage. i'm up but nervous, playing safe, and so my push is way too late. i get to his base, do some damage he recalls in my base, forces my push back, and so i'm sitting in mid turtling trying to grab bases. eventually he goes carriers, i get raped.
we should have planned this out better, at least gotten me a tvz so i wouldn't completely embarrass myself. but it was fun overall! these guys aren't pushovers as we expected, that's for sure.
tl.net, we're getting raped. as far as i know we're 1-1 for the 1vs1s though, hope the other guys win their games.
On January 21 2007 12:24 Sun wrote: Obviously not when you have a shitload of hasus part of your community. No screening.
Prior 2003-2004 this wouldn't happen.
Well obviously if TL puts out FA Midian Testie Idra BGHers is just gonna be gangraped, so there's no point in doing that, this was a just for fun showmatch. Get outta this thread.
On January 21 2007 12:56 intrigue wrote: we got raped too 2-1 on bgh the first game was really art by us, probably the best we could have played the second game, dawn didn't get to choose race before it started, so we ended up ppt. the bgh guys were really uptight so we just ended up playing it, got raped third game, we committed to a bad attack, and got raped
they love ppp and they 4, 5, 6 gated zealots, slowly teching to goon every game. dammit
I'm x-men-rain, I randomed P 2 games but in one game I picked it because you were PPR and I didn't want to go PPT vs PPP because the T is too vulnerable.
You did do a good job game 1 faking my allies out so you could kill me, but we had some bad communication on our part too and both of my allies teched, which meant we lost since we didn't have enough units.
Game 2: You didn't say ANYTHING about changing race. If you wanted to, we would 100% let you change your race. Do not lie and say we were "uptight" about it, you never asked us to remake.
I completely predicted this, but it stills bums me out a little that so few of our best players are playing this. I know its just a for-fun show match, but still, there's a certain amount of pride involved.
I play both BGH and low-money maps and it's extremely hard to beat a good 2v2 or 3v3 BGH team if you're a low-money map player. I think our main weakness was that we picked three random players from TL.net who have never played together and matched them against three BGHers who have played together many times before. So, they had much better teamwork, which is important in any map, but more so for BGH. BGHers usually play team games as well, while TLers usually 1v1. This is just a generalization though.
If I was mistaken in assuming that the BGHers play together many times before this showmatch, sorry.
edit: Should also say that race matters a lot. Toss is way too strong in BGH and if they pick PPP and you don't, you're already at a disadvantage.
On January 21 2007 13:00 Blind wrote: I play both BGH and low-money maps and it's extremely hard to beat a good 2v2 or 3v3 BGH team if you're a low-money map player. I think our main weakness was that we picked three random players from TL.net who have never played together and matched them against three BGHers who have played together many times before. So, they had much better teamwork, which is important in any map, but more so for BGH. BGHers usually play team games as well, while TLers usually 1v1. This is just a generalization though.
If I was mistaken in assuming that the BGHers play together many times before this showmatch, sorry.
edit: Should also say that race matters a lot. Toss is way too strong in BGH and if they pick PPP and you don't, you're already at a disadvantage.
I (x-men-rain) have not played with mym.ash before and the last time pickle and I played together was around August of last year, since we got into a little feud thing that has now been resolved
What can you expect when you make 2 communities battle each other out, where 1 community thinks they are superior to the other in general, and the other community wants to show they are not inferior? This was bound to turn out into more competition than friendly show match, and some flaming going on too.
On January 21 2007 13:00 Blind wrote: I play both BGH and low-money maps and it's extremely hard to beat a good 2v2 or 3v3 BGH team if you're a low-money map player. I think our main weakness was that we picked three random players from TL.net who have never played together and matched them against three BGHers who have played together many times before. So, they had much better teamwork, which is important in any map, but more so for BGH. BGHers usually play team games as well, while TLers usually 1v1. This is just a generalization though.
If I was mistaken in assuming that the BGHers play together many times before this showmatch, sorry.
edit: Should also say that race matters a lot. Toss is way too strong in BGH and if they pick PPP and you don't, you're already at a disadvantage.
I (x-men-rain) have not played with mym.ash before and the last time pickle and I played together was around August of last year, since we got into a little feud thing that has now been resolved
if this comes off well the sites should have another event with the 2 community's best players, decided by vote or something. the low games would prob be mostly one sided but the bgh games would be alot more fun.
Yes Idra, but some good tl.net-ers can't be bothered to play such lousy maps as BGH. Or at least that's the impression that some of the replys here gave me.
Anyway it was fun to play. Tho I think I pissed off chiflutz for yelling at him in all the games and going "ffs" a lot.
Game 2: You didn't say ANYTHING about changing race. If you wanted to, we would 100% let you change your race. Do not lie and say we were "uptight" about it, you never asked us to remake.
i meant that you guys took insult easily to the things we said in the game lobby, so we didn't bother asking and played it. my team found you guys humorless, dry, and overly serious, and we ended up whispering 'wtf why are they all so pissy' to each other a few times.
i know it's our fault, i'm not trying to blame anyone, we should have asked for a re but whatever. we thought we could make do with the positions and come up with a strategy on the spot, but since none of us play bgh regularly or at a high level, we couldn't anticipate T being THAT weak. i don't care enough about a game to lie about it on a public forum, so please calm the fuck down, nobody's out to get you.
I think a showmatch between the two sites best players (ie idras idea) would be pretty cool, although I dont think the bghers would win that overall.
And I think top tl.net players might be able to make time for it since this isnt a league or a tourney or something, its a showmatch and they'll have to play only 2-4 matches.
Like someone else said... I know these matches were just done "for fun" and all, but there definitely is more involved in them. It saddens me to see TL.net get so thoroughly dominated by the bgh'ers.
there's no shame in losing to better players. those definitely were at the top of the bghers community (nothing against them is implied here), and we just sent out tl regulars =)
still, disappointed at the outcomes. i suck! blahhh sorry guys
Game 2: You didn't say ANYTHING about changing race. If you wanted to, we would 100% let you change your race. Do not lie and say we were "uptight" about it, you never asked us to remake.
i meant that you guys took insult easily to the things we said in the game lobby, so we didn't bother asking and played it. my team found you guys humorless, dry, and overly serious, and we ended up whispering 'wtf why are they all so pissy' to each other a few times.
i know it's our fault, i'm not trying to blame anyone, we should have asked for a re but whatever. we thought we could make do with the positions and come up with a strategy on the spot, but since none of us play bgh regularly or at a high level, we couldn't anticipate T being THAT weak. i don't care enough about a game to lie about it on a public forum, so please calm the fuck down, nobody's out to get you.
You see, you are already accusing me of getting worked up or something. I am not worked up, I promise you. And you really should have asked, because we are nice people and definitely wouldn't have minded letting you switch
And we weren't rude, I just said "please don't be rude" when we said "MYM.ash is coming" and you replied "LOLOLOLOLOLOL"
Don't watch my 1v1 low-money game. It sucks -_-. I made some very stupid decisions. And Surado is easily better than most people on this forum. Don't know how he'd stack up against our better players.
I knew the 3v3 players would be at least pretty good. Turns out the team we faced was very good at PPPvsPPP on BGH. I don't know how they'd fare in a longer game, but early game it almost felt like playing 3 Testies =P. I wouldn't be surprised if they could outplay us in a longer game, either. And I'm definitely no longer surprised when I hear that teams like Testie/Fayth/xxx lost to players like them on BGH.
Game 2: You didn't say ANYTHING about changing race. If you wanted to, we would 100% let you change your race. Do not lie and say we were "uptight" about it, you never asked us to remake.
i meant that you guys took insult easily to the things we said in the game lobby, so we didn't bother asking and played it. my team found you guys humorless, dry, and overly serious, and we ended up whispering 'wtf why are they all so pissy' to each other a few times.
i know it's our fault, i'm not trying to blame anyone, we should have asked for a re but whatever. we thought we could make do with the positions and come up with a strategy on the spot, but since none of us play bgh regularly or at a high level, we couldn't anticipate T being THAT weak. i don't care enough about a game to lie about it on a public forum, so please calm the fuck down, nobody's out to get you.
They're a smaller community and this showmatch means more to them than it is to us. That is to be expected, and explains both their attitude, and perhaps, the results.
On January 21 2007 13:00 Blind wrote: I play both BGH and low-money maps and it's extremely hard to beat a good 2v2 or 3v3 BGH team if you're a low-money map player. I think our main weakness was that we picked three random players from TL.net who have never played together and matched them against three BGHers who have played together many times before. So, they had much better teamwork, which is important in any map, but more so for BGH. BGHers usually play team games as well, while TLers usually 1v1. This is just a generalization though.
If I was mistaken in assuming that the BGHers play together many times before this showmatch, sorry.
um. me and rain havent played together in like 5 months.. and me and rain have never teamed with mym.ash before... so as far as the team situation goes, we were in the same boat as you. edit: Should also say that race matters a lot. Toss is way too strong in BGH and if they pick PPP and you don't, you're already at a disadvantage.
Game 2: You didn't say ANYTHING about changing race. If you wanted to, we would 100% let you change your race. Do not lie and say we were "uptight" about it, you never asked us to remake.
i meant that you guys took insult easily to the things we said in the game lobby, so we didn't bother asking and played it. my team found you guys humorless, dry, and overly serious, and we ended up whispering 'wtf why are they all so pissy' to each other a few times.
i know it's our fault, i'm not trying to blame anyone, we should have asked for a re but whatever. we thought we could make do with the positions and come up with a strategy on the spot, but since none of us play bgh regularly or at a high level, we couldn't anticipate T being THAT weak. i don't care enough about a game to lie about it on a public forum, so please calm the fuck down, nobody's out to get you.
They're a smaller community and this showmatch means more to them than it is to us. That is to be expected, and explains both their attitude, and perhaps, the results.
while this is true, i still think the TL representatives had an idea that they were going to be playing some strong teams. hopefully if there's a second showmatch all our "big guns" can play, and we can field 3v3 teams like testie/midian/FA versus that hDn clan or whatever
i mean, i was talking to locked and hes right, it was kind of unrealistic to expect decisive wins on BGH, close games and narrow wins could happen for TL if stuff worked out our way, but really when a community generally plays a lot of teamgames and another community plays 1v1s, we all know what's going to happen.
Yeah we played Player[Craft] + Tarzan[Craft] + otherguyfromcraft
Edit: Decaf I owe you an apology. I am sorry for accusing you of cheating -_-;;. I forgot that when we watch the replay on Ride of Valkyries, we end up in the observers' spots first because there are more Observers than Players on that map.
Decaf did nothing wrong and I am a big poopoo head. That is all.
Also, DECAFCHICKEN YOU FUCKING CHEATER WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME IN MY GAME VS SURADO?! Surado pointed out that someone pinged me when he was dropping my main. I saw the replay, checked it with BWChart, and you were the only observer who was pinging the minimap. Decaf, what the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? Why the hell would you do that?
(in the end it turns out it didn't matter because I didn't notice his pings the two times he did it, but it's still an attempt at cheating)
On January 21 2007 13:53 Bill307 wrote: Yeah we played Player[Craft] + Tarzan[Craft] + otherguyfromcraft
Also, DECAFCHICKEN YOU FUCKING CHEATER WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME IN MY GAME VS SURADO?! Surado pointed out that someone pinged me when he was dropping my main. I saw the replay, checked it with BWChart, and you were the only observer who was pinging the minimap. Decaf, what the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? Why the hell would you do that?
(in the end it turns out it didn't matter because I didn't notice his pings the two times he did it, but it's still an attempt at cheating)
PM decaf then. Why are you posting this openly. >_>
On January 21 2007 13:53 Bill307 wrote: Yeah we played Player[Craft] + Tarzan[Craft] + otherguyfromcraft
Also, DECAFCHICKEN YOU FUCKING CHEATER WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME IN MY GAME VS SURADO?! Surado pointed out that someone pinged me when he was dropping my main. I saw the replay, checked it with BWChart, and you were the only observer who was pinging the minimap. Decaf, what the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? Why the hell would you do that?
(in the end it turns out it didn't matter because I didn't notice his pings the two times he did it, but it's still an attempt at cheating)
Do replays show all pings in game or only ones you can see? Maybe he didn't realize he was pinging you and just was pinging for the other obs
On January 21 2007 13:53 Bill307 wrote: Yeah we played Player[Craft] + Tarzan[Craft] + otherguyfromcraft
Also, DECAFCHICKEN YOU FUCKING CHEATER WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME IN MY GAME VS SURADO?! Surado pointed out that someone pinged me when he was dropping my main. I saw the replay, checked it with BWChart, and you were the only observer who was pinging the minimap. Decaf, what the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? Why the hell would you do that?
(in the end it turns out it didn't matter because I didn't notice his pings the two times he did it, but it's still an attempt at cheating)
PM decaf then. Why are you posting this openly. >_>
Because decaf has a history of being bm and gay in games?
Replays only show the pings that you can see, I believe. I was in the player 1 spot on RoV, so if you watch the replay as the 1st player then you will see all the pings that I would have seen, I believe.
Maybe I'm wrong about this in which case I'll feel even stupider -_-.
I could only see those pings if decaf had allied me. But no one was chatting during the game so either he allied me and forgot about it and never talked during the game (why would you ally the players when you're an observer though?), or he allied me temporarily just to send me those pings.
Lastly I'm posting this here because I am really pissed off that someone would try to cheat in a game. Decaf had better have a good explanation for this.
kill, china no shit sherlock. Way to state the obvious. I mock you - do yourself a favor and gtfo. Community would be a lot better without your kind.
If there is a next time... don't use Idra, Midian, etc. We know how that would turn out. I'm talking about the players who have been here for +4 years and you are fairly good, but not THAT well-known. It would have been MORE fun for those participating.
If he allied himself with everybody and then forgot about it then you could just chalk it up to honest mistakes, but from what Mani's saying it might not be so simple. Anywho, I'm sorry we got creamed in our 2v2s tonight. It's mostly my fault and I have to work on a lot of things in my game. And, no, Cube, you didn't piss me off by yelling 'ffs' that much. :p However, they were pretty good games, the [Craft] clan has some really strong and mannered players, kudos to them.
He's saying it openly because the replays will be released to the public and some people are bound to notice the pinging. If he waited until then, it *might* be misconstrued that he was "coming out" only because he had been exposed. Also, its just honest.
Surado showed me that rep just a while ago. He said there were a total of three mini map pings, but I missed the last one. The first two pings weren't helpful at all though, very benign (unless I totally mis-saw where they were haha cuz rep was at 16x) so it was probably decaf misclicking or just fooling around or whatever.
We weren't really going to mention this because we didnt want to spoil the showmatch, which is why Surado was kind enough to speak to bill in person (I think).
EDIT: Oh so it seems the third ping was pretty helpful. Hmmm.
On January 21 2007 13:53 Bill307 wrote: Yeah we played Player[Craft] + Tarzan[Craft] + otherguyfromcraft
Also, DECAFCHICKEN YOU FUCKING CHEATER WHY WERE YOU TRYING TO HELP ME IN MY GAME VS SURADO?! Surado pointed out that someone pinged me when he was dropping my main. I saw the replay, checked it with BWChart, and you were the only observer who was pinging the minimap. Decaf, what the fuck is wrong with you, seriously? Why the hell would you do that?
(in the end it turns out it didn't matter because I didn't notice his pings the two times he did it, but it's still an attempt at cheating)
Do replays show all pings in game or only ones you can see? Maybe he didn't realize he was pinging you and just was pinging for the other obs
Replays show all pings, as you by default have vision of all. I'm not sure if taking obs vision off in the replay will prevent obs-only pings from showing. You can tell definitively who saw it by checking the ally code of Decaf in BWChart to see who he was allied to before the ping.
Hey Sun, considering you are so OLD SCHOOL, all the way from late 2004 (WOW), maybe you should help contribute to make things better rather than bitching about the way things are done by people who try to make things better.
The people that played were the people who are active in this site on a regular basis, and who vollunteered. I didnt see you stepping up instead of these "hasus". If you dont like it, this "comunity would be a lot better off without OUR kind".
Seriously, get fucking bent. Did the BGHers take this way too seriously, sounds like it at the end, but it is people with your attitude who are the real poison. Also, Nexus, please get out of this thread because you are only going to end up trolling it into the closed section.
On January 21 2007 14:13 Bill307 wrote: OH FUCK ME! WHEN YOU WATCH THE REP YOU ARE SEEING TEH OBSERVERS BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OBSERVER SPOTS THAN PLAYER SPOTS IN THE MAP!
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK sorry decaf .
word... like I said, instead of publically calling someone a cheater, PM first. >_>
On January 21 2007 14:13 Bill307 wrote: OH FUCK ME! WHEN YOU WATCH THE REP YOU ARE SEEING TEH OBSERVERS BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE OBSERVER SPOTS THAN PLAYER SPOTS IN THE MAP!
FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCK sorry decaf .
word... like I said, instead of publically calling someone a cheater, PM first. >_>
Yeah I should have done that first. My bad. I was just really pissed off at the thought that someone was trying to cheat -_-. I should have forced myself not to say or do anything until I talked to decaf first. Sorry . I'll try not to do this again in the future -_-.
Hey guys, Thanks for the great games, manner, skills and respect given to each other. ^^ It made a great showmatch (though at start there were ALOT of confusion ) I give props to alot of Op Tl-West people, who I've gotten close by playing TMM and RW's ^^ Really FUN! I hope that Bill's BGH TMM will be done so I can introduce to the BGHers. Anyways, Overall it was a AWESOME showmatch, hope to have it again. And hey, hope you guys become BGH addicts. Thanks again.
the thing is bgh is a much more specialized map, especially early game and early game is tremendously crucial. there are only few number of things that work on bgh, while you can get away with many more things on "normal" maps
On January 21 2007 14:19 Surado- wrote: Hey guys, Thanks for the great games, manner, skills and respect given to each other. ^^ It made a great showmatch (though at start there were ALOT of confusion ) I give props to alot of Op Tl-West people, who I've gotten close by playing TMM and RW's ^^ Really FUN! I hope that Bill's BGH TMM will be done so I can introduce to the BGHers. Anyways, Overall it was a AWESOME showmatch, hope to have it again. And hey, hope you guys become BGH addicts. Thanks again.
surado <3 bgh tmm has already been done, we played it a couple of times last night. well, bill just made the normal tmm version have a lot of more resources
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
Actually I have Mani; not to mention, following the int'l/pro scene here since it began. I said all I needed to. I would have stepped up to play, but I haven't played competively in early 2004. I hardly play anymore - reformatted pc, cannot find SC CD, so I don't bother. ;/
Yeah, although I wasn't exactly happy about my games, I'm sure a lot of people had fun. [Craft] team definitely got some good press (I'm not sure how much they enjoyed pwning us n00bs, though ). And hopefully people in general will show more respect for players who play BGH.
On January 21 2007 14:19 Surado- wrote: Hey guys, Thanks for the great games, manner, skills and respect given to each other. ^^ It made a great showmatch (though at start there were ALOT of confusion ) I give props to alot of Op Tl-West people, who I've gotten close by playing TMM and RW's ^^ Really FUN! I hope that Bill's BGH TMM will be done so I can introduce to the BGHers. Anyways, Overall it was a AWESOME showmatch, hope to have it again. And hey, hope you guys become BGH addicts. Thanks again.
surado <3 bgh tmm has already been done, we played it a couple of times last night. well, bill just made the normal tmm version have a lot of more resources
Hehehe, he knows: he played on it too ^^. I'm going to make it a little less hyper.
yeah overall this was a pretty good showmatch. i also think there should another one kind of like what idra said. having some of the top players play instead of just the regulars. it would be fun as well and nice to see how other top tl.net players adapt to bgh. anyways.. GG's to everyone i played
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
OOa BILL! LET ME KNOW! when its finished. Like I said, I will have the admins on BGHers (with force) make front page news. It's like statue of liberty from TL.net haha j/p.
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
>.< at the first game i thought we would win 2-0
ha yeah.. first game i just got like totally paranoid and teched alot.... had no units. but last 2 i played normally and it made the difference
This showmatch was, for obvious reasons, a very fun event and an excellent mixing of two communites of the same game. I think I echo everybody's opinion when I say results are irrelevant. It is obvious this showmatch was a "bigger deal" for bghers.com because they dont have the OSL, MSL, Proleage, WCG and a million other tournaments and leagues to follow. This event wasnt only a rarity for them, it was also excellent exposure, and it could NOT have been done without the warm support of TL.net. However I assure you that there was no deception on their part, and as promised, everyone was encouraged to register to play irrespective of skill. Of course once the final ten man roster was chosen, a little planning was done to structure them into the strongest possible teams, but I dont foresee any objections on this.
There are a few people who have logged in quite a few hours to make this thing possible, such as Manifesto who came up with the idea and organized TL.nets team all on his own, fwiffo for his programming of the replay uploader and html coding of the news, Surado for helping me with finalizing the team and the reserves, and Babotoss for his amazing as always logo. And I'd like to think I did my bit too!
I was in the channel throughout the showmatch and I observed a very friendly, very manner atmosphere. No one complained about losing a game or whatever (at least not in the channel ). Sure, it feels good to win, but everyone knew this showmatch wasnt really about that.
All in all, I'm very glad that the two communities I have long been a part of were able to productively interact.
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
>.< at the first game i thought we would win 2-0
ha yeah.. first game i just got like totally paranoid and teched alot.... had no units. but last 2 i played normally and it made the difference
Oh yes, I'm also sorry if I offended anyone or got carried away in all the "bghers vs low players" arguments haha! It was my first online argument, and I'd like to think I've learnt when to shut up now!
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
>.< at the first game i thought we would win 2-0
ha yeah.. first game i just got like totally paranoid and teched alot.... had no units. but last 2 i played normally and it made the difference
Hi pickle
(waves)
hi pickle
by the way, empyrean what's up with the 'all game is good game' and 'all obs is manner' annoying =(
loki fwiffo and the rest of the admins are going to post all the replays at once along with a report.. so be patient.. it will probably be another hour maybe
haha jared i'm ahead of you, me and fwiffo are working simultaneously right now and conferring over msn
We're missing three replays, and I'm trying to get hold of them. I'm also trying to type up a report that doesnt make me look like an imbecile, and once that is done, everything will be uploaded.
Thanks for a great showmatch. I, for my part, was really trying to play my best, but reading the friendly gestures in the channel and here on this thread I think this event was much more than the games themselves. It definately was a highlight in my BW career and I enjoyed the positive atmosphere. Btw, thanks for the compliments, you make me feel proud. =)
I want to give props to Austria (aka G)oG_Pocket), who was my teammate on LT/Azalea and made up for my lack of skill on these maps. I found the first game PP vs TT on LT was very nice and I'm definately looking forward to a rematch.
Edit: I forgot the say thanks to fwiffo (aka locutus_of_borg), the head admin of BGHers.com, for planning and coordinating the event (writing news items, PR work, scripting, collecting & sorting replays, etc.). He sacrificed a lot of time for this and he just told me he didn't sleep much the past 4 nights. Thank you for your efforts for the community! Thanks also to all the others who played their part in making this even happen: X-MeN-Loki, BaboToss, lousy_robot and TerranGod (for initiating the "BGH Pimpest Play").
On January 21 2007 14:15 Hot_Bid wrote: how many wins did we get on bgh? even if some of the series went 1-2, thats still not a bad showing all things considered
my team got one, i don't think the other team got a win hey i propose the tlnet 3v3 teams play each other for who gets to sit at the bottom! =)
>.< at the first game i thought we would win 2-0
ha yeah.. first game i just got like totally paranoid and teched alot.... had no units. but last 2 i played normally and it made the difference
Hi pickle
(waves)
hi pickle
by the way, empyrean what's up with the 'all game is good game' and 'all obs is manner' annoying =(
On January 21 2007 14:29 Surado- wrote: OOa BILL! LET ME KNOW! when its finished. Like I said, I will have the admins on BGHers (with force) make front page news. It's like statue of liberty from TL.net haha j/p.
Okay, I believe it is ready . I just have one request: please put up both the NL version as well as the BGH version:
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
Oh no, I thought it was great, and it sounded really good.
I just think there will be many people who say "WHAT??? WE LOST? I HATE THIS SITE!"
Not any of the intelligent posters mind you, more like Bob Chobo and friends.
Apollo Creed vs. Ivan Drago was a friendly exhibition until the afro-man got killed. I just think it does a good job at silencing a lot of the haters who feel they are better than everyone.
And note, I appreciate every gamer who put up a good fight in the showmatch, noone can shame them.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
uh... no we woulda sent out our top players if it was that kind of competition.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
The people see it as a competition between the two sites because of the following picture:
that LOOKS like a competition between two sites, but I could be reading too much into the name of the sites and the abbreviation of the word "versus" being used.
I know it wasn't the best possible players who have ever posted on this site, but it was still a legitimate match we lost.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
No, you get it wrong... If we would have won the bigger part of the matches, then it would have been a competion. As we lost most of the games, it was just a showmatch and noone really cares who won.
Jokes aside, I'm impressed by the good manners, and it makes me want to play my first game of BGH ever.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
uh... no we woulda sent out our top players if it was that kind of competition.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but did you read what I wrote? No matter how you try to phrase it, this will be PERCEIVED as a competition between the two sites by many people.
On January 21 2007 14:19 Surado- wrote: Hey guys, Thanks for the great games, manner, skills and respect given to each other. ^^ It made a great showmatch (though at start there were ALOT of confusion ) I give props to alot of Op Tl-West people, who I've gotten close by playing TMM and RW's ^^ Really FUN! I hope that Bill's BGH TMM will be done so I can introduce to the BGHers. Anyways, Overall it was a AWESOME showmatch, hope to have it again. And hey, hope you guys become BGH addicts. Thanks again.
On January 21 2007 16:31 jeddus wrote: If I was a BGHer, I would take this seriously, and I would also have a lot of pride in my victories.
Too many of us live vicariously through the top players of this game and assume we could beat anyone who plays it differently than we do.
I hope many TLers choke and die on the humble pie we just got served and the rest use the experience to grow and get better at the game.
I guess you missed the part about "friendly showmatch"
No matter how many times people say "just a showmatch" it will not be perceived in that way. It will be perceived as BGHers are better than TL.net and this was a competition between the two sites.
uh... no we woulda sent out our top players if it was that kind of competition.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but did you read what I wrote? No matter how you try to phrase it, this will be PERCEIVED as a competition between the two sites by many people.
yes, the thousands of viewers and fans eagerly awaiting the results and listening to the live reports will perceive it as a competition
yes, im sure many of the small BGHers community see it as a competition, but i think all the posters here at TL realize that it was more of a friendly thing
On January 21 2007 17:42 CubEdIn[SoD] wrote: I cut myself several times for bringing shame upon TL.net. My arm is still bleeding. May I stop now Manifesto? Please?
On January 21 2007 17:42 CubEdIn[SoD] wrote: I cut myself several times for bringing shame upon TL.net. My arm is still bleeding. May I stop now Manifesto? Please?
I'm sorry my last news post on bghers.com might have given you the impression that somehow this wasnt a friendly showmatch. It was. In fact, I feared that I might have overdone it a bit, because I did not want to leave any chance of straying away from the original concept and spirit from which the showmatch was first conceived.
I felt that, after all the emotional suppression I had done on the bghers, to keep everyone focused on sticking by the rules, that perhaps, I was warranted a small pep talk to get our guys excited and pumped up. Anyway, I wouldve responded to this sooner had I not been so occupied by the showmatch itself.
I know people are waiting for the rep pack, it is ready. It will be posted along with the news on http://bghers.com, when I get the report from my admin.
Those who signed up on the check-in form will get some advance notice as your reward!
yes, the thousands of viewers and fans eagerly awaiting the results and listening to the live reports will perceive it as a competition
Yeah, I didn't see many TL-netters asking for replays and discussing the results of the competition...
Sarcasm aside, it's obvious many TL-netters paid close attention to what happened here. This truly did not feel like a friendly showmatch, no matter how it was phrased or who phrased it. Yes, rationally it makes sense that these are friendly showmatches because of reasons X Y Z, but that's not how many players will feel about the competition. That's my point - not that these weren't friendly showmatches, since rationally they were, but that they didn't feel like friendly showmatches.
Can we drop it now? if we are all in agreement about the intent of these matches then theres no need for all the back chat between bghers and the "rest of us"
yes, the thousands of viewers and fans eagerly awaiting the results and listening to the live reports will perceive it as a competition
Yeah, I didn't see many TL-netters asking for replays and discussing the results of the competition...
Sarcasm aside, it's obvious many TL-netters paid close attention to what happened here. This truly did not feel like a friendly showmatch, no matter how it was phrased or who phrased it. Yes, rationally it makes sense that these are friendly showmatches because of reasons X Y Z, but that's not how many players will feel about the competition. That's my point - not that these weren't friendly showmatches, since rationally they were, but that they didn't feel like friendly showmatches.
i didn't say nobody at TL was paying attention to this. in fact, i agree with you, lots of TL.netters were paying attention, but i disagree that they all (the TL.netters) viewed it as a serious competition.
you might have thought they didn't "feel" like a friendly showmatch, and many BGHers will agree with you, but not everyone here (TL.net) shares the same opinion. i think most of the TL.netters saw it as what it was labeled.
out of respect for BGHers website and the staff, I'm going to refrain from rehosting the replay pack elsewhere, even though the site is lagging madly at the moment.
Although the rep packs werent hosted at bghers.com (to prevent lag/slow dls).
I'm having trouble with the spoiler tag too. fwiffo said its cuz too many people are trying to open it at the same time or something. It just randomly opens at times though haha. Just keep trying I guess!
I'm not going to put up with this broken spoiler tag nonsense... I've reloaded the page at least 10 times to no avail.
Okay i've taken the contents of the spoiler from the page source. I got rid of the html tags, so I'm posting it here. If a BGHers admin has a problem with this, please pm me and I will remove it.
The much anticipated showmatch between the regular forum members of Star Fleet (BGHers.com) and the Romulans (TeamLiquid.net) has concluded. So who won? Read on....
The event started with the players and would be observers starting to log in roughly an hour before the start of the showmatch. There were a lot of questions, a lot of opinions, a lot of ideas being thrown about, and most importantly, a shit load of people, which made me feel overwhelmed by the prospect of organizing a 20 player strong event. However, I had the gallant and ever dependable fwiffo at my side, and we commenced the matches.
The BGH games kicked off first. The ten players from each side were divided into two teams of two participants each, and another two three man strong. All four teams then partook in bo3 team games on BGH. The BGH games were followed by six one on one bo1s, and two 2on2 bo3s.
So who won? I have tabulated all the results neatly - under a spoiler tag. The true Star Fleet warriors amongst you will ignore it and head directly to the replay section, while the hermaphrodite Romulan pussies will click it to reveal the scores right away! (Please note that officially all the 1on1 low money games were bo1s, any further games played do -not- contribute to the final result)
RESULTS
(SPOILER)
THE BGH GAMES
Surado / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-0 npnl.fedor / the6357[dark] VS Cubedin[sob] / chiflutz 2-0
3ON3: Player / Prince / Tarzan[Craft] VS Hnr)Insane / BlueLaguna / Bill307 2-0 X-MeN-RaiN / Pickle / MyM.Ash VS CaucasianAsian / sMi.Breeze / alleyn 2-1
THE LOW MONEY GAMES the6357[dark] VS Hnr)Insane 2-1 (dark wins first game) MyM.Ash VS BlueLaguna 0-1 X-MeN-RaiN VS rel[sr] (sacajewa on TL.net) 2-1 (RaiN wins first game) X-MeN-Pickle VS alleyn 2-0 Surado- VS Bill307 3-1 (Surado wins first game) npnl.fedor VS sMi.Breeze 1-0
2ON2: Prince[Craft] / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-1 Player[Craft] / Tarzan[Craft] VS Cubedin[sob] / chiflutz 2-0
I hope this was a fun event for everyone, and that we are able to arrange similar showmatches in the future. We have pushed the evil Romulans out of the Neutral Zone, but they regroup as we speak!
fwiffo's note:Thank you all for using the replay uploader and the check-in form. It made my life a lot easier and both programs will be improved thanks to the numerous feedback I got.
i think it's because they challenged us, so they had time to assemble their best players and we didn't. I say we assemble our best players, challenge them, and rematch.!!!!!
On January 21 2007 21:24 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: i think it's because they challenged us, so they had time to assemble their best players and we didn't. I say we assemble our best players, challenge them, and rematch.!!!!!
mm actually, this was manifesto7's idea... (it was in response to our, rather noobish attempt at pimpest plays... hey its our first try!)
next time though, i'll help you guys get organized by setting up a signup form specifically for TL. (I didnt do it this time for TL because I didnt want to interfere with the ways things were done here.)
oh yea, it wasnt our best players, in fact, we tried to be completely transparent about the process from which we picked our players. from the publicly visible registration form (that allowed TL to see who they were up against) to the final selection of who was allowed to play.
On January 21 2007 21:24 IIICodeIIIIIII wrote: i think it's because they challenged us, so they had time to assemble their best players and we didn't. I say we assemble our best players, challenge them, and rematch.!!!!!
the causes etc have been rehashed extensively... some of the possibilities include
-Having played with the team for extended periods of time -Drawing from a smaller pool of forum users which reduces skill variance -Higher map familiarity on BGH, as well as proficient knowledge on the 3 selected low maps. -A "nothing to lose" mentality -Higher motivation to win
On January 21 2007 21:27 borg wrote: mm actually, this was manifesto7's idea... (it was in response to our, rather noobish attempt at pimpest plays... hey its our first try!)
next time though, i'll help you guys get organized by setting up a signup form specifically for TL. (I didnt do it this time for TL because I didnt want to interfere with the ways things were done here.)
oh yea, it wasnt our best players, in fact, we tried to be completely transparent about the process from which we picked our players. from the publicly visible registration form (that allowed TL to see who they were up against) to the final selection of who was allowed to play.
The way I see it, the relative newness of BGHers compared to us made it such that those with the confidence and motivation to play us are naturally among the top in skill as well as the segment with familiarity with low money. Nevertheless, it was a good showmatch.
;P. Replays are memories we can all reminisce about. New friends were made, and we all got to one thing like what Mani, Gandalf, and borg was trying to do, put all the community to one ^^. Well done, I give a bow (90 degrees) for your JOB WELL DONE.
Question: Was it bo7 in BGH in a row, then low money? I mentioned this in an another earlier post, but I just want to reiterate it. Playing that many games in a row is draining. I dont even know why it had to be bo7, and not simply bo3, or bo5 at the most. And switching between BGH and low money, instead of a block of this and a block of that.
edit: And just 10 players to play all those games? I would be tired as hell (for both sides) by the end of the first few games, let alone the amount played.
On January 21 2007 22:30 useless wrote: Question: Was it bo7 in BGH in a row, then low money? I mentioned this in an another earlier post, but I just want to reiterate it. Playing that many games in a row is draining. I dont even know why it had to be bo7, and not simply bo3, or bo5 at the most. And switching between BGH and low money, instead of a block of this and a block of that.
edit: And just 10 players to play all those games? I would be tired as hell (for both sides) by the end of the first few games, let alone the amount played.
Read, then post. You are mixing up two seperate showmatches.
Surado, why did you upload our 1st pvp (game 3)? I told you a couple of minutes in that I was playing a pvt build by accident because I forgot it was pvp, then just gave up to the zealots and figured the game would be ignored and we could just restart the pvp. Why in the world would you report a game like that, when you knew I made a mistake like that and wanted to start over with the right build? Claiming a win for something like that is not exactly friendly. I don't understand why anyone would do that -_-;;.
Not to mention that I didn't know any of the games beyond the first would be reported. I thought they were just between-friends games, outside of the showmatch. But I guess it doesn't matter. I'm just upset that you reported that one game as a loss and uploaded the replay instead of just ignoring it.
Ah, Bill, lOki asked me to upload ALL the replays of the games we played. I didnt mean to upset you or make you look bad (besides in the replay text it says that it was a mistake that you thought it was tvp and we should re so it doesn't really matter). My only intention was to listen to the orders ^^. If you think I care about scores, then its a NO, I posted earlier I don't care win or lose, just GG's.
If it is included in the replay pack (which I think shouldn't be, because the only replays that should be included are the "official" showmatch games) then I will apologize and I will tell the admins to take it out right away.
Oh well, its too late since the replays been distributed, but about the replay going on together with the replay pack (when it is unofficial showmatch games) I am sorry about that. But I do feel that I am getting blamed for a misunderstanding on your side which caused you a game. ^^
On January 22 2007 00:30 Surado- wrote: Ah, Bill, lOki asked me to upload ALL the replays of the games we played. I didnt mean to upset you or make you look bad (besides in the replay text it says that it was a mistake that you thought it was tvp and we should re so it doesn't really matter). My only intention was to listen to the orders ^^. If you think I care about scores, then its a NO, I posted earlier I don't care win or lose, just GG's.
If it is included in the replay pack (which I think shouldn't be, because the only replays that should be included are the "official" showmatch games) then I will apologize and I will tell the admins to take it out right away.
Thanks. It really didn't make sense to me, but now I understand. Although, if you had defied his order and didn't upload that one game, I don't think he would have noticed/cared!
You don't need to ask them to change the score or remove the replay. Now that I know it was an accident, I don't mind.
Well I have the same question too when the Admin councils voted for Ash. But since Ash talked to me privately that he want to represent BGHers.com, so I did reconsider his participation. Also, he was the longest KoTH survival in BGH 1on1 event. So yeah, he CAN be on BGHers, and why not?
are you kidding me? "Surado / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-0"
after we played these games, x-men-loki told us that they were not "official" matches, and indeed surado and austria were not supposed to play with each other.
normally i wouldn't have minded, but i went into these games knowing it was auto loss.
ahhh i just watched all the replays to anyone playing this again - please, please, PLEASE go ppp vs ppp, unless you're going ppz and you know your z has sick enough micro to distract and get free kills
one and only one p can tech on each team (depending on what you scout), the other two are forced to go 4-6gate zealot before goon. it's painfully obvious that tl.net completely underestimated how zealot-heavy the bghers were going
a rematch would be fun! and i would like to play in the team games but i'm expecting my ban any time now =)
On January 22 2007 04:24 intrigue wrote: ahhh i just watched all the replays to anyone playing this again - please, please, PLEASE go ppp vs ppp, unless you're going ppz and you know your z has sick enough micro to distract and get free kills
one and only one p can tech on each team (depending on what you scout), the other two are forced to go 4-6gate zealot before goon. it's painfully obvious that tl.net completely underestimated how zealot-heavy the bghers were going
a rematch would be fun! and i would like to play in the team games but i'm expecting my ban any time now =)
Well it's definitely true that a lot of the top BGH teams pick PPP but I think that you can go PPZ and still be ok, or that if you are just godly you can pick a non P race (like in some of those games where Testie went Z when teamed with Koolam, Testie just has extremely good game-sense and his ability to tell when to make lings/drones is even more useful than normal on a map like BGH).
i saw some reps of testie /koolam vs surado / austria where testie was zerg and terran. the PP team could have easily won both games, but they seemed too afraid to attack either of them at the right moments.
Well "P Wars" is really popular with the top Korean teamplay teams so most of those games are PPP v PPP making it quite hard to find actually skilled team replays that involved other races, especially 3v3 instead of 2v2.
There are quite a few teamplay replays here but a majority are Pwars and not particularly recent (basic mechanics and build orders have not changed in years for teamplay though):
omg -.- PPP vs PPP is really fun. I've played tons of those games before. You guys should have 2 gate and go directly to DT while the other two to goon. BM LOL
The ONLY thing I really disagree with in this MU was that the 2v2 low money team was different than the 2v2 BGH team.
The point was to take average players from one side and average players from the other and see how they stack up on bgh then on low, if you change the team it screws up the whole bgh -> low balance.
mmm we stuck to the 10 player restriction, even though there was a suggestion to get more players involved (we had a registration form with over 35+ members trying to get in). we figured, we were free to put them in to different teams as we saw fit, as long as we stuck to the same 10 players.
Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg
I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote: Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg
I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW
On January 21 2007 23:12 Orome wrote: Good job BGHers!
But, watching those replays has convinced me BGH isn't for me. Not a trace of finesse in all those games. It is the thug's Starcraft.
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote: Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg
I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW
^^ Yes our matches are mostly PPP v PPP, except some matches having a PPR or PR. It is a hunters based match. Zerg can be strong if you know how to micro and pick off units and control your economy, boosting it when game control is managed. I play BGH inhouses with alot of Koreans. These guys are from Kor-Asia and have been doing P wars for many years. They seemed to get addicted to BGH, saying it is like a new realm, and not repitive like Hunters. If you really want to talk about a map being reptitive, it would be Hunters because of how important the first 3 zealot micro is. Because hunters do not have great eco like BGH, you can't really counter or do much when your micro is setback from your opponent. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing, It is just that you guys are not used to it.
The whole notion of calling some maps "low maps" is ridiculous. These are NORMAL maps. "big money maps" are called that because they contain significantly more resources than the USUAL maps. But it's gotten to the point where so many BW players concentrate on BGH / fast / ZC that they consider playing normal maps unusual.
. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing
Whatever man. We V-Tec players beg to differ. What do you guys differ on? When to send in the zealots to attack? Who to attack first?
I don't mean to be dissing on people who play BGH a lot. If they enjoy it, whatever, it's none of my concern. But to suggest there's many successful strategies in it is laughable. If you're against three protoss players who are massing zealots with an outrageous amount of resources and rushing, what other strategies can you possibly do but mass zlots yourself?
Read the replay text in one of the games. One of the bgher's techs to goons against PPZ, the other bghers criticize him saying his teching lost them the game. Think about what that means... him going for goons instead of sticking with the mass zlots lost them the game.
a new genre of true low maps might be really interesting, though you might end up just playing micro umses
these games would be like speed chess for starcraft
edit for the post above mine: before darknexus comes in here and rips your head off (i don't mean anything against either of you by this), the tl.netters went for mass zealots/lings first. you really don't need goons against ppz that early, and if i recall correctly two of their players lowered their unit count to go for unnecessary higher tier units.
in a ppp vs ppp, i think teching is more appropriate and common depending on game situation, allowing for more (though still comparatively limited) strategies.
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote: Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg
I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW
^^ Yes our matches are mostly PPP v PPP, except some matches having a PPR or PR. It is a hunters based match. Zerg can be strong if you know how to micro and pick off units and control your economy, boosting it when game control is managed. I play BGH inhouses with alot of Koreans. These guys are from Kor-Asia and have been doing P wars for many years. They seemed to get addicted to BGH, saying it is like a new realm, and not repitive like Hunters. If you really want to talk about a map being reptitive, it would be Hunters because of how important the first 3 zealot micro is. Because hunters do not have great eco like BGH, you can't really counter or do much when your micro is setback from your opponent. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing, It is just that you guys are not used to it.
Well normal tosswars have alteast 4 builds/strats. 7zeal, 5zeal, fd, allzeal. On a serious note, I do prefer watching regular tosswars and good mixed race hunters like a strong ZZT team. Dont really know why it gets me a bigger kick than BGH but it does. Also playing hunters at somewhat high level (as in trying to play good vs non pubbie) is were I really feel that my speed is not even near what I need.
On January 22 2007 16:13 EscPlan9 wrote: Whatever man. We V-Tec players beg to differ. What do you guys differ on? When to send in the zealots to attack? Who to attack first?
I don't mean to be dissing on people who play BGH a lot. If they enjoy it, whatever, it's none of my concern. But to suggest there's many successful strategies in it is laughable. If you're against three protoss players who are massing zealots with an outrageous amount of resources and rushing, what other strategies can you possibly do but mass zlots yourself?
Read the replay text in one of the games. One of the bgher's techs to goons against PPZ, the other bghers criticize him saying his teching lost them the game. Think about what that means... him going for goons instead of sticking with the mass zlots lost them the game.
Ok ^^ Look for something beyond given things. Then you will see BGH is another strategical map ^^. No matter how much I explain to you, you will think in that one way thought. So I don't want to bother.
Maybe they should try giving some more elevation differences in BGH to encourage build variety. Perhaps all mains be on elevated ground with a ramp? Or the opposite ala Reverse Temple? Seems like that might give some potential for strategies not involving mass zealots a chance, or maybe even a non-protoss race for that matter.
On January 22 2007 16:37 Phyre wrote: Maybe they should try giving some more elevation differences in BGH to encourage build variety. Perhaps all mains be on elevated ground with a ramp? Or the opposite ala Reverse Temple? Seems like that might give some potential for strategies not involving mass zealots a chance, or maybe even a non-protoss race for that matter.
i have an interesting map called The Lost Hunters...
ppp isnt the only way to go on bgh. there are other race combinations that can be just as effictive if used right. it's quite common to a ptz win vs a ppp by doing a 9 pool/mass zealot/vulture/tank build. the 9 pool prevents any rush on the terran techer long enough for the protoss to just mass zealots and support lings and by the time they're exahusted the terran kicks in with mines blocking opponents and then harasses their miners. now all of these players need to have a good understanding on how to play it for it to work.. but it can work.
On January 22 2007 16:32 Hot_Bid wrote: hes not saying that its not strategical at all, he's saying that there's less viable strategies, especially in teamplay
i think it's pretty apparent that this is true
Precisely. I thought this was obviously true, since even the past TL.netter avid defenders of BGH in the "BGH pimpest plays thread", such as Gandalf, have said there are very few viable strategies in the game, and the best players know those few extremely well.
And teamwork helps on any map so that's not really relevant. Good teamwork can overcome past errors regardless of the map.
I know PPP isn't the only way to go, but it's the easiest of the high success rate strategies to do (I'm no BGH pro by any means, so correct me if I'm wrong). I could have missed one of the replays, but I'm pretty sure every BGHer picked PP/PPP in those games and likely for the reasons I mentioned.
On January 22 2007 00:30 Surado- wrote: Ah, Bill, lOki asked me to upload ALL the replays of the games we played. I didnt mean to upset you or make you look bad (besides in the replay text it says that it was a mistake that you thought it was tvp and we should re so it doesn't really matter). My only intention was to listen to the orders ^^. If you think I care about scores, then its a NO, I posted earlier I don't care win or lose, just GG's.
If it is included in the replay pack (which I think shouldn't be, because the only replays that should be included are the "official" showmatch games) then I will apologize and I will tell the admins to take it out right away.
Thanks. It really didn't make sense to me, but now I understand. Although, if you had defied his order and didn't upload that one game, I don't think he would have noticed/cared!
You don't need to ask them to change the score or remove the replay. Now that I know it was an accident, I don't mind.
Yeah, I was asking everyone to upload every single replay because I was aware a lot of people were playing more games than the required bo1 on low maps. Surado is my slave so he never questions me haha, but yeah, he's a nice guy and he probably sent it to fwiffo for uploading because he didnt want to cause any trouble.
EDIT: I had no clue as to what happened in that game.
On January 22 2007 03:41 CoralReefer wrote: are you kidding me? "Surado / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-0"
after we played these games, x-men-loki told us that they were not "official" matches, and indeed surado and austria were not supposed to play with each other.
normally i wouldn't have minded, but i went into these games knowing it was auto loss.
Please dont misquote me. The ONLY time I said games would be "unofficial" was when players played multiple games for the 1;1 low series, because we had decided upon a bo1 for those. About the other matches I only said they were "friendly" games.
Surado and Austria WERE supposed to team up for the BGH games. The roster was put up on the front page of bghers.com about 5 days before the event, so I dont understand why you're disputing the team.
On January 22 2007 10:57 CubEdIn[SoD] wrote: The ONLY thing I really disagree with in this MU was that the 2v2 low money team was different than the 2v2 BGH team.
The point was to take average players from one side and average players from the other and see how they stack up on bgh then on low, if you change the team it screws up the whole bgh -> low balance.
Again, the roster and teams of bghers.com were made available 5 days before the event. You should've checked the site to at least be aware of what was going on, since you were taking part in this.
Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that. Surado and Austria are friends and partners, so they both also wanted to play together for BGH 2;2. I really didnt make the teams, I just selected the roster and then let the players decide what they wanted to play. Just thought it'd be more fun for them.
Also, CaucasianAsian left after his BGH games (he had to go) and I got Sacajewa to play (who was kind enough to fill in with hardly any notice). Nobody complained, because, well, its nothing to complain about. All everyone wanted were some games and everyone got them.
On January 22 2007 16:32 Hot_Bid wrote: hes not saying that its not strategical at all, he's saying that there's less viable strategies, especially in teamplay
i think it's pretty apparent that this is true
Precisely. I thought this was obviously true, since even the past TL.netter avid defenders of BGH in the "BGH pimpest plays thread", such as Gandalf, have said there are very few viable strategies in the game, and the best players know those few extremely well.
And teamwork helps on any map so that's not really relevant. Good teamwork can overcome past errors regardless of the map.
By few viable strats I didnt mean 1-2 strats, I was speaking relative to low maps. And there are hundreds of low maps out, so obviously there is no way BGH can compete with low maps in the number of available strats.
Even in a mirro match with just one race like PPP vs PPP, there are a lot of builds. Eg, you can start with fast goon or two gate zealots, three gate zealots, or even four gate zealots. I've even seen people go six gate slow zealots while his ally teched hard (I remember a game of craft vs spells/58). All players on a team are not bound to do exactly the same build, so with six players playing, the combination of viable builds increases a lot.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
As has been said many times, the average BGHer at our website is not anything near comparable to the average BGHer in pubs. As in, we are better.
but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl).
What the hell are you talking about? You play some pub BGH games and now you beat "them" (whoever that is) half the time? And you beat "them" all the time on low? Seriously, ignorant people like you have already posted and been answered and proven wrong in 2-3 other threads, so go there if you want to continue such a dumb argument. Also, sorry to say, but the average TL.netter is probably significantly less active/skilled than the average BGHers.com member, simply by virtue of numbers as has been said; TL.net has thousands and thousands more members than we do.
And finally, as has been said many times as well, if TL top 5 played BGH players top 5, the TL top 5 would gangbang the BGHers 1on1 (duh).
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
I lost you after the first two sentences because they seem disconnected from the rest of your post.
The latter part of your post nexus has answered.
As for the comment about only four of our players with some 1;1 experience, they wanted to play 1;1 low, so I let them. I mean, this whole thing was about having fun.
Lets just focus on the fact that two great communities got together and had some fun. Maybe this will get some tl.net people interested in bgh and some bghers.com people in low, and that would be pretty great.
On January 23 2007 08:53 Gandalf wrote: Also, the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane, so I dont really understand your point at all. (Not trying to gloat, sorry)
wtf......? the guy who beat aellyn is the same guy who goes around saying they have beaten this guy and that guy from this very forum, so your claim is completely nonsensical.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
As has been said many times, the average BGHer at our website is not anything near comparable to the average BGHer in pubs. As in, we are better.
but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl).
What the hell are you talking about? You play some pub BGH games and now you beat "them" (whoever that is) half the time? And you beat "them" all the time on low? Seriously, ignorant people like you have already posted and been answered and proven wrong in 2-3 other threads, so go there if you want to continue such a dumb argument. Also, sorry to say, but the average TL.netter is probably significantly less active/skilled than the average BGHers.com member, simply by virtue of numbers as has been said; TL.net has thousands and thousands more members than we do.
And finally, as has been said many times as well, if TL top 5 played BGH players top 5, the TL top 5 would gangbang the BGHers 1on1 (duh).
Um, no, retard. I'm talking about the people at bghers.com, not public bghers. I beat pubs almost every game, and beat the founders and regulars at your site about half the time. Try reading next time.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
I lost you after the first two sentences because they seem disconnected from the rest of your post.
The latter part of your post nexus has answered.
As for the comment about only four of our players with some 1;1 experience, they wanted to play 1;1 low, so I let them. I mean, this whole thing was about having fun. Also, the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane, so I dont really understand your point at all. (Not trying to gloat, sorry)
Doubtful. BGH is pretty boring IMO and requires less skill, so the majority of good players eventually switch to regular maps or quit SC. I'd quit too if LT, Luna and ROV were the only decent regular maps.
On January 23 2007 08:53 Gandalf wrote: Also, the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane, so I dont really understand your point at all. (Not trying to gloat, sorry)
wtf......? the guy who beat aellyn is the same guy who goes around saying they have beaten this guy and that guy from this very forum, so your claim is completely nonsensical.
I dont understand why you are being so offensive? I seem to have insulted you.
The guy who beat alleyn is X-Men-Pickle, and I am X-MeN-lOki. We've been friends for over two years, and when I first met him I doubt he even knew what low maps were. He started playing 1;1 maybe last year, and even so he's focused predominantly on BGH. Are you saying you know him better than me?
Also, your claim that "the guy who beat aellyn is the same guy who goes around saying they have beaten this guy and that guy from this very forum" is total bullshit, and you're lying which is pretty sad. Pickle is a very reticent and an *incredibly* well mannered guy, and he has never, ever, ever go around saying he beat this guy or that guy. He doesnt even gloat about people who bad manner him. And even if he has, how many people has he claimed to have beaten? 5? 10? 20? So 20 games is a lot of experience? Also, please pull out some posts where he has "claimed to have beaten this guy or that guy".
And why do you care if pickle has any 1;1 experience or not? How is that even an issue?? Were we told we could only field players with no 1;1 experience??????!!!!!
Also, if you wish to continue this argument, please use more civil words. I REALLY dont understand why (a very small number of) people are arguing about totally irrelevant and trivial things and getting offensive when everyone has REPEATEDLY made it clear that the results of this showmatch neither MATTERED nor PROVED anything.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
As has been said many times, the average BGHer at our website is not anything near comparable to the average BGHer in pubs. As in, we are better.
but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl).
What the hell are you talking about? You play some pub BGH games and now you beat "them" (whoever that is) half the time? And you beat "them" all the time on low? Seriously, ignorant people like you have already posted and been answered and proven wrong in 2-3 other threads, so go there if you want to continue such a dumb argument. Also, sorry to say, but the average TL.netter is probably significantly less active/skilled than the average BGHers.com member, simply by virtue of numbers as has been said; TL.net has thousands and thousands more members than we do.
And finally, as has been said many times as well, if TL top 5 played BGH players top 5, the TL top 5 would gangbang the BGHers 1on1 (duh).
Um, no, retard. I'm talking about the people at bghers.com, not public bghers. I beat pubs almost every game, and beat the founders and regulars at your site about half the time. Try reading next time.
I'm not disputing your point, I'm just curious: The founders of bghers.com are locutus_of_borg and lousy_robot, have you played them? And which regulars have you played? And what was your SN when you played them?
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
As has been said many times, the average BGHer at our website is not anything near comparable to the average BGHer in pubs. As in, we are better.
but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl).
What the hell are you talking about? You play some pub BGH games and now you beat "them" (whoever that is) half the time? And you beat "them" all the time on low? Seriously, ignorant people like you have already posted and been answered and proven wrong in 2-3 other threads, so go there if you want to continue such a dumb argument. Also, sorry to say, but the average TL.netter is probably significantly less active/skilled than the average BGHers.com member, simply by virtue of numbers as has been said; TL.net has thousands and thousands more members than we do.
And finally, as has been said many times as well, if TL top 5 played BGH players top 5, the TL top 5 would gangbang the BGHers 1on1 (duh).
Um, no, retard. I'm talking about the people at bghers.com, not public bghers. I beat pubs almost every game, and beat the founders and regulars at your site about half the time. Try reading next time.
i would bet that most of the good bghers would beat you on low and trounce you on bgh, get off your high horse. they are not bad players, most of them are quite good, and many people from their community are vastly favorable to people like you.
On January 23 2007 09:25 Gandalf wrote: Pickle is a very reticent and an *incredibly* well mannered guy,
I hope you realize that you are defending Darknuxus, aka X-men-pickle, one of the most commonly disliked posters on this website. Let's start with his "good manneredness" then?
On January 13 2007 11:34 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness and lack of common sense have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
some more excerpts.
You obviously didn't read the article, because my post has NOTHING to do with PR spin.
Who cares if it's old news? If you whined about everything that was posted that has been posted before, you'd fill the entire forum. I thought it was interesting.
Are you stupid? I'm wondering what others thought of it, asswipe. Get off my nuts.
Good lord, people are stupid. What do you think a forum is?
On September 23 2006 20:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: P.S. Zulu you arrogant fuck, Sea.Pie does not suck. You should be the one who quits posting until you can quit acting like you're a fucking pro, it's goddamn annoying.
On January 13 2007 13:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On December 21 2006 22:27 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Ok that's so much bullshit. You and I both know you're nowhere near A- level Zulu, so what is this shit about being A- level to get to try out.
You and I both? Who's you, who are you? you seem to know a lot about me while you've never talked to be on b.net or didn't have the balls to say youre darknexus. You understand that this constitues as "stalker" like behavior right?
On January 23 2007 09:25 Gandalf wrote: He doesnt even gloat about people who bad manner him. .
okay...
On October 10 2006 16:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: The people I put down are:
Nony Incontrol (on occasion) Idra (especially) Zulu
On January 23 2007 09:25 Gandalf wrote: Pickle is a very reticent and an *incredibly* well mannered guy,
I hope you realize that you are defending Darknuxus, aka X-men-pickle, one of the most commonly disliked posters on this website. Let's start with his "good manneredness" then?
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness and lack of common sense have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
You obviously didn't read the article, because my post has NOTHING to do with PR spin.
Who cares if it's old news? If you whined about everything that was posted that has been posted before, you'd fill the entire forum. I thought it was interesting.
Are you stupid? I'm wondering what others thought of it, asswipe. Get off my nuts.
Good lord, people are stupid. What do you think a forum is?
On September 23 2006 20:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: P.S. Zulu you arrogant fuck, Sea.Pie does not suck. You should be the one who quits posting until you can quit acting like you're a fucking pro, it's goddamn annoying.
On January 13 2007 13:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On December 21 2006 22:27 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Ok that's so much bullshit. You and I both know you're nowhere near A- level Zulu, so what is this shit about being A- level to get to try out.
You and I both? Who's you, who are you? you seem to know a lot about me while you've never talked to be on b.net or didn't have the balls to say youre darknexus. You understand that this constitues as "stalker" like behavior right?
On October 10 2006 16:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: The people I put down are:
Nony Incontrol (on occasion) Idra (especially) Zulu
You should try to make sure if you have the facts straight before delivering an offensive argument. I hope YOU know dark nexus is x-men-rain on bnet, and x-men-pickle is x-men-pickle on tl.net and bnet. He has maybe 20 posts, and reading those alone will give you a fair indication of how manner he is. L
On January 23 2007 08:53 Gandalf wrote: Also, the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane, so I dont really understand your point at all. (Not trying to gloat, sorry)
wtf......? the guy who beat aellyn is the same guy who goes around saying they have beaten this guy and that guy from this very forum, so your claim is completely nonsensical.
And why do you care if pickle has any 1;1 experience or not? How is that even an issue?? Were we told we could only field players with no 1;1 experience??????!!!!!.
I could care less if you fielded completely different players for the 1:1's than the 3v3's on BGH. And care even less with regards to pickle's experience; whether he is a A+ korean gosu smurf or a player who has never played a non money map in his life, makes no difference to me. What then do I have a problem with?
I have a problem with YOUR comment. This is not about pickle, or nexus, or anyone else, but you. The statement "two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane", no matter what you attach afterwards to patch it up, is a demeaning statement and a flat out insult to these two players who volunteered themselves for this event.
I dont care if this statement was made to argue against someone else's post, becuase the fact still remains. An insult is an insult no matter how you cover it up.
On January 23 2007 09:54 Gandalf wrote: Also, x-men-rain is one of those four with 1;1 experience, so your argument is totally destroyed now.
read last post. As I say, I honestly could care less about pickle or rain's skill, because it is your statement that I have a problem with, and that stands no matter how wrong I may be about Pickle or Rain.
thedeadhaji you've obviously taken being proven wrong personally, and have done nothing to "prove" your initial argument, for which you actually pulled out god knows how many quotes.
You're now cleverly directing the argument into a completely new thing. Actually, you're starting a new, pointless argument.
That comment I made in reply to a post that said if the 3;3 teams had split up to play the 1;1s, the bghers had no chance. I didnt say they got "raped" or anything, and I'm not revealing something that was supposed to be kept hidden (the results are known), and despite this I made an addendum in the brackets so that not even a dumbass would mistake its intent. And still, you did. Are you saying mentioning a result in which you name someone who lost is automatically bad mannered, no matter how its phrased? If that is the case, I guarentee every single person who has EVER played this (or any other) game is bad mannered. You're coming off as extremely immature and belligerent, and totally dissatisfied with how this showmatch turned out. Sad. If you ACTUALLY had any problem with that comment, you would have 100% commented about it before this. You're only leaning back on that because you feel utterly humiliated because I disproved you on all points. Sadder still.
You havent even apologized for accusing pickle of going around gloating about beating players or whatever. Shouldnt you? I should think so.
And you should learn to conclude an argument before starting another (completely irrelevant, incorrect and inflammatory) one.
Finally, I will say again what has been said repeatedly: the showmatch was primarily to expose both communities to each other and initiate some camaraderie. Teams, results, maps and other blah blahs are irrelevant. Why dont you go to op bghers and grab a few games? It'll be fun!
Two people of tl.net were talking shit in the channel but I never mentioned that prior to this. Why should I? Wouldnt we be better off focusing on the positives?
If you still have a problem and dont see the light, PM me, or make a thread at bghers.com. I'm not going to respond to you anymore in this thread, simply because I dont want to kill something really nice with trivial, pointless shit.
On January 23 2007 07:59 Gandalf wrote: Also, the teams were switched for the low games because we only had four players with 1;1 experience, and all four (including surado) expressed a desire to play that.
That seems to say a LOT about the results though. You only have 4 guys with 1v1 decent experience, and they all played? I'm starting to think for each additional team/person we would have added to the competition, TL would have won 1 more series. Obviously the top 5-10 players on each site are going to be comparable, but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl). Next time we should include as many players as are interested, and see how it turns out.
As has been said many times, the average BGHer at our website is not anything near comparable to the average BGHer in pubs. As in, we are better.
but I'm quite sure the average or median-skilled player on tl.net is going to be a lot better than on bghers (since I beat them half the time on bgh and basically all the time on low, and I'm below average for tl).
What the hell are you talking about? You play some pub BGH games and now you beat "them" (whoever that is) half the time? And you beat "them" all the time on low? Seriously, ignorant people like you have already posted and been answered and proven wrong in 2-3 other threads, so go there if you want to continue such a dumb argument. Also, sorry to say, but the average TL.netter is probably significantly less active/skilled than the average BGHers.com member, simply by virtue of numbers as has been said; TL.net has thousands and thousands more members than we do.
And finally, as has been said many times as well, if TL top 5 played BGH players top 5, the TL top 5 would gangbang the BGHers 1on1 (duh).
Um, no, retard. I'm talking about the people at bghers.com, not public bghers. I beat pubs almost every game, and beat the founders and regulars at your site about half the time. Try reading next time.
i would bet that most of the good bghers would beat you on low and trounce you on bgh, get off your high horse. they are not bad players, most of them are quite good, and many people from their community are vastly favorable to people like you.
That's the most asinine comment in this thread. You've never seen me play.
On January 23 2007 10:10 Gandalf wrote: If you still have a problem and dont see the light, PM me, or make a thread at bghers.com. I'm not going to respond to you anymore in this thread, simply because I dont want to kill something really nice with trivial, pointless shit.
You're only saying that because you're losing your little pissing contest with him and want the last word. If you wanted it to be a friendly matchup between 2 forums, you could have. Unfortunately you came in here and started bragging about stuff, so you already decided it wasn't. Don't get upset when others counter your bm by defending themselves.
i wrote that 2nd post before reading your response, but you would probably not take my word for it. I wanted to keep the two posts separate, as they were directed at different topics. One, for the purpose of identifying the persona of whom I misidentified as pickle, and the other, at your comments.
I would indeed like to apologize for wrongly accusing and misidntifying pickle, for as you said, he is not responsible for any of this.
But my disapproval for your comments still remains. Do I believe simply stating the results of a match is insuling? Of course not. However think about what your comments imply and what kind of undertone it carries. It is a far cry from an objective report of match results. Just as you took offense to my subjective (but wrong) comments about your friend Pickle, is it not expected that I, or anyone close to those two you mention, would be rubbed the wrong way through what you wrote?
Perhaps that comment serves as an effective counter to what someone else may have posted before me. However I am looking at that line and that line only: an insult to those two who as you yourself say, played to "initiate some camaraderie". Can you honestly say that the line "the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane" has no negative implications for these two?
edit: and again, you managed to post while I was writing this.
"I would indeed like to apologize for wrongly accusing and misidntifying pickle, for as you said, he is not responsible for any of this." ==> I'm glad.
"However think about what your comments imply and what kind of undertone it carries." ==> I can assure you I had ZERO ill intention while making that comment. If you had rephrased your argument to "However think about what your comments might be taken to imply and what kind of undertone they might be perceived to carry", it would've been fairer. I can understand why a declaration about results could be insulting, but the context and reasons for which I made that statement and the explicit wording I used should make it clear that that wasnt my intent. You have here accused me of making a statement that carried an "undertone" and that they "implied" something. They didnt imply anything. I stated what I wanted to say, and I would know better than you if my words carry any undertone or not. After all, I was the one who typed them out.
"However I am looking at that line and that line only: " ==> I hope you realize that by saying this you have explicitly exposed the fact that you took this statement out of context. We all know taking things out of context will more often than not change the intended meaning. If, on the other hand, you read the post before it, and realize that my statement was a reply to a post that was very offensive towards bghers, you'll realize that I was very gracious and mannered in the words and tone I used.
And why did you never comment on the so many unfair arguments and statements against bghers? Why didnt you play vigilante then?
On January 23 2007 08:53 Gandalf wrote: Also, the two guys who had barely no (or next to nothing) 1;1 experience beat alleyn and Hnr)Insane, so I dont really understand your point at all. (Not trying to gloat, sorry)
by implication: yeah alleyn and insane must really suck to lose 1:1 to bgh players with no normal map experience, or bghers must be a community of bw savants for this to happen (not trying to be insulting)
If you're so bent on believing what I say, why dont you agree to all the positive statements I've made? A super selective out-of-context quotation being forced to imply something it doesnt only screams you're trying to pick a fight.
btw the fact that BGH'rs were surprised or even offended when the revelation was brought up that BGH team play consists of 1 bo and 1 unit massed is hilarious. Common guys, its right under your noses.
On January 22 2007 03:41 CoralReefer wrote: are you kidding me? "Surado / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-0"
after we played these games, x-men-loki told us that they were not "official" matches, and indeed surado and austria were not supposed to play with each other.
normally i wouldn't have minded, but i went into these games knowing it was auto loss.
Please dont misquote me. The ONLY time I said games would be "unofficial" was when players played multiple games for the 1;1 low series, because we had decided upon a bo1 for those. About the other matches I only said they were "friendly" games.
Surado and Austria WERE supposed to team up for the BGH games. The roster was put up on the front page of bghers.com about 5 days before the event, so I dont understand why you're disputing the team.
i did not misquote you. where the hell would i come up with this idea on my own? i played those games willingly thinking they were official matches.
and no, they were not listed on the roster as playing with each other. the 2v2 bgh team was different from the 2v2 low money team.
since everyone else is flaming... if i could have had my choice of partners we would have won the low money matches rather easily.
Are you kidding me? I NEVER said, to anyone, at any point that the 2;2 bo3 isnt official. Why the hell would I when it wasnt so????? Why would I mislead people about that? I see no benefit in it. I spoke to dozens of people and I said the same things over and over, that it was a friendly showmatch, and that only the games played after a completed bo1 for the 1;1 low (and bo3 for the rest) would not be included in the "official" score.
The roster + teams were up FIVE days before the event at bghers.com. Hundreds of people saw that, and of course the bgh players knew it too. So they're all lying now?
Yes, the 2;2 bgh teams were listed as different from the 2;2 low teams a full FIVE days before the event.
That was the team BEFORE protech_marine pulled out. The teams were shuffled a couple of times but the final teams WERE put up well before the event.
The other problem was that surado and austria expressed a strong desire to play with each other, being friends, koreans, and regular team mates, so I saw no reason to cut them apart.
Also, for a moment lets suppose the teams were changed during the event, in the channel. Whats your point? This was just a friendly showmatch. CaucasianAsian pulled out of his 1;1 games cuz he had to leave. Did we take a free win? No. I went immediately to tl-west, and asked everyone there for about 10 mins if they'd like to replace Cauc. Eventually Sacajewa volunteered, and he played, no one complained, and those games got included in the official score.
So, seriously, what IS your point? And why the "hahahahhahahha"? What is it thats making you so happy about starting a pointless shitty sad argument?
That post was made on Jan 16, five days before the event. If I remember correctly, Surado let me know protech_marine wouldnt be playing, and that he wanted to do the 2;2 BGH with austria. We listed the finalized team either on the 16th or the 17th.
We never even ASKED tl.net for their roster OR their team, because everyone knew it was irrelevant. Although Mani was kind enough to relay that information to us anyway.
On January 23 2007 13:14 CoralReefer wrote: maybe you got me mixed up then? i wasn't playing any 1on1s.
[/QUOTE]
I knew exactly who was playing whom, and I was constantly conferring with my players. At one point I made a slight mistake, and they corrected me right away. I not only told players whom to play, I repeatedly confirmed the teams.
This is how you started this pointless, unfair, accusatory argument:
On January 22 2007 03:41 CoralReefer wrote: are you kidding me? "Surado / Austria VS CoralReefer / MrSpliffy 2-0"
after we played these games, x-men-loki told us that they were not "official" matches, and indeed surado and austria were not supposed to play with each other.
normally i wouldn't have minded, but i went into these games knowing it was auto loss.
Yeah, try to hide your lack of sportsmanship with jokes now.
ah let it go guys it's true, i'm not that great and my tvp gets laughed at a lot. i still think i should have taken the second game, i was too cautious after losing the first, but a loss is a loss and 0-2 is kind of embarrassing. remember, gandalf, that i wasn't playing because i'm sick at this game, it was because i'm a regular on tl.net. if you want to talk about experience, i've also only picked up formally recognized build orders and standard 1vs1 play within the last year. i had a friend i used to tvz with years and years ago, and so i intuitively know and have some experience in that matchup, but anything outside i'm still trying to pick up. i can't even do a proper push!
so i think this fact, which some people know, combined with my daily interaction with tl.net members made your innocently insulting comment come off really badly. i don't really take offense to it, but understandably haji (who i play and talk to a lot a lot) would be very annoyed, and rightfully so. his dark]n[exus association was just a slip in memory, but your comment still carries the same implications.
again, i don't mind, and i'm flattered by haji's defense, but i don't think it's really worth it to end this otherwise nice showmatch with hostility.
on a side note, x-men-pickle IS really well-mannered, i like him a lot and i'd like to play him again in the future. say hi to him for me! oh and my name is aellyn
On January 23 2007 14:44 intrigue wrote: ah let it go guys it's true, i'm not that great and my tvp gets laughed at a lot. i still think i should have taken the second game, i was too cautious after losing the first, but a loss is a loss and 0-2 is kind of embarrassing. remember, gandalf, that i wasn't playing because i'm sick at this game, it was because i'm a regular on tl.net. if you want to talk about experience, i've also only picked up formally recognized build orders and standard 1vs1 play within the last year. i had a friend i used to tvz with years and years ago, and so i intuitively know and have some experience in that matchup, but anything outside i'm still trying to pick up. i can't even do a proper push!
so i think this fact, which some people know, combined with my daily interaction with tl.net members made your innocently insulting comment come off really badly. i don't really take offense to it, but understandably haji (who i play and talk to a lot a lot) would be very annoyed, and rightfully so. his dark]n[exus association was just a slip in memory, but your comment still carries the same implications.
again, i don't mind, and i'm flattered by haji's defense, but i don't think it's really worth it to end this otherwise nice showmatch with hostility.
on a side note, x-men-pickle IS really well-mannered, i like him a lot and i'd like to play him again in the future. say hi to him for me! oh and my name is aellyn
Fair comment, I'll edit that part out. You have my apology as well as my reinforcement that that post was -NOT- made to insult or demean anyone in anyway, and that it was purely a retaliation to something I felt was offensive towards some people I know.
And it would have been pleasing if someone chided some of the outright offensive and uninformed posts directed towards bghers. Sigh.
On January 23 2007 09:25 Gandalf wrote: Pickle is a very reticent and an *incredibly* well mannered guy,
I hope you realize that you are defending Darknuxus, aka X-men-pickle, one of the most commonly disliked posters on this website. Let's start with his "good manneredness" then?
Idra does it ever occur to you that nobody likes you and that you're just a dick in every single thread? Why are you even posting here? All you do is put us down and sound arrogant. Publicity with you is negative publicity because your rudeness and lack of common sense have condemned you to the least respected of the "known" gamers.
You obviously didn't read the article, because my post has NOTHING to do with PR spin.
Who cares if it's old news? If you whined about everything that was posted that has been posted before, you'd fill the entire forum. I thought it was interesting.
Are you stupid? I'm wondering what others thought of it, asswipe. Get off my nuts.
Good lord, people are stupid. What do you think a forum is?
On September 23 2006 20:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: P.S. Zulu you arrogant fuck, Sea.Pie does not suck. You should be the one who quits posting until you can quit acting like you're a fucking pro, it's goddamn annoying.
On January 13 2007 13:05 zulu_nation8 wrote: On December 21 2006 22:27 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Ok that's so much bullshit. You and I both know you're nowhere near A- level Zulu, so what is this shit about being A- level to get to try out.
You and I both? Who's you, who are you? you seem to know a lot about me while you've never talked to be on b.net or didn't have the balls to say youre darknexus. You understand that this constitues as "stalker" like behavior right?
On October 10 2006 16:02 DarK]N[exuS wrote: The people I put down are:
Nony Incontrol (on occasion) Idra (especially) Zulu
Nice to know I have such a neurotic admirer haji. Btw, I'm X-MeN-RaiN so get your shit straight before you come out with unfounded accusations. I'm actually also kind of curious as to why you'd pick quotes from me that don't even seem to say anything bad....nothing that I wrote there is deceitful or really in any way dishonest/incorrect. Surely you can do better than that, lol.
On January 23 2007 14:50 em.and.m wrote: It's funny how Gandalf is basicly representing the BGHers and hes flaming away at one of our TL members...
Shows you how mannered they really are O.o - o.O
shut up with that
Calm down kid.
you want to shut up? ill echo idras comment about you and pr0n here, i'd easily rather have any average BGHers forum member here than people like you two
CoralReefer : to basically summarize your arguments, you are saying that me and Austria wasn't an official team and that it wasn't an official match. And also you've stated that you will beat our asses in 2v2 LOW. Am I correct? Well we were an official team (stated at BGHers.com's front news) and it was of crouse, an official match except for those games which were supposed to be a BO1 but played more. And for your statement, msg me anytime and I'll be glad to game you on low.
em.and.m : please do not judge the whole community because of one person. If you are to state it like that then this thread would mirror of the manners of TL.NET?
I'll just keep it simple guys. Some of you guys are seeing this showmatch as a planned benefit to our BGHers community. Well first of all, we didn't bring up the idea, it was Manifesto7 so that argument is invalid. For some of you who thought our community was total noobs, well think again, the scores told. The members were chosen on forum participation wise, just like what Mani had insisted, so you can't argue "oh if we brought our best player, oh if i played" ahh.. just throw those out the down windows please.
Do you guys have some heart? We are a community who came to TL with great pride in BGH and manner because we DO know what TL is and what makes it up. I myself think I've show my best in the games and best attitude during the showmatch. If you guys are going to talk about manner, talk to some of the TL.net players that were in the channel that day. Improper manner wasn't shown at all from our side I will guarantee that. IF you guys just cannot welcome our community, then so be it. WE did our best, and showed our best, and if you people just cannot acknowledge that then so be it.
If some of you had a problem with teams, matches (how many matches), and other issues, then you guys had alot of time to speak it out. We from BGHers, did every preparation we needed, had some games with each teams so we can warm up each other, and brought amongst the best condition we can. But for your lack of preparation (setting up teamwork such as CoralReefer and MrSpliffy) is unexcusable.
Again, I'd like to thank again the people who showed great attitude, and also brought about positive things to our community, (Manifesto7, Hnr)Insane, BlueLaguna, Bill307, and oh so many people to name) It was a honor to have us in the front page of TL and also having a small showmatch. I hope you guys can plan it again and have it again (let's avoid the BEST players talk, why don't we give ourselves and other forum users a chance to play? That is community work.). THANKS AGAIN guys.
Ok..... well i will try to say in the the most mannered way possible.... because there is still something that i clearly do no understand! Some of you still believe in the term "bgh noob" and other terms which all leads to same thing that bgh is ez bla bla bla! I agree bgh map is probly alot easier to master then low money maps and ppl like koolam ( and not only him there is alot of others players who could easily match up with ppl like testie on bgh ... our best players saying that ) My point is if we are "bgh noobz" wouldn't that mean that our low money skills would suck compared to urs? BGh players is just as skillz as low money gamers and i think that was our chip on our shoulders when we had that showmatch. nothing offensive or nothing but just the fact that almost all of u clearly stated that we are a bunkch of noobs really! But it comes to my attention that didn't we beat you also on low moneys ...... i am not trying to be cockey or anything that is not my point. My point is if bgh is so ez and we are such noobs wouldn't u guys rolled over us? This scenario caoulda happen if #1 U guys suck ass ( which i don't think its the case ) or #2 all ur insult and saying bgh is noobie game is 100% wrong ( which i believe is the correct option ) Anyway playing bgh does not mean ur noob nor does it mean u can't play other maps ..... some ppl just has more fun playing it .... just like u guys have more fun playing low ... and just like fastest players have fun playing fastest and u can say fastest=noob but i have seen fastest players that are really really gosu at it and would probly beat everyone here easy because its thr style of play but u still cannot say bgh and fastest maps is noobz its just what we prefere playing Thank you for your time and i hope we get to play again with more games and more players because u guys say u played with few players and not best ..... but news flash for you we did not also play with our best players ,,,,, they were good players but i can honestly say that u guys sent good players also u would not send in noob like that so case close there Have a good night
Firstly: It was only a few TL people who were saying BGH is some no-skill noob map. The vast majority of us (including me) believe that BGH does take skill.
Secondly: The showmatch was a way to introduce the two communities together. It was not a "which site has better players", or "are BGH players better at SC than regular players" type thing. If it was like that, I'm sure we would have done our best to send Midian and Testie and even tried to send progamer XellOs ^~
>>;; There's really no point in coming in and saying that we're worse players, it's not the case. We're not saying you're worse either. There isn't evidence to go one way or another, since that wasn't the purpose of this match.
Yes agreed .... but reading many post ppl still didn't understand that concept! And we saying we playing on chip on our shoulders.... well go read other post about us and some post on this thread and alot alot alot of ppl bash bgh... we never doubted u guys skills and one thing for the bgh community that i like is we are very mannered u will most likely never see us bad manner ( few exceptions of ppl as always ) and i never said u guys were worst players i was clearly defending my ground and the fellow bgh'ers ground that for all of u who still think bgh is map of noobness and require no skill or w/e .... which i still some numerous post posted not long ago by different players. There was no hard feelings going towards there if any was taken. i was just defending all the negative and saying that Future matchs .... low or bgh should be played because obviously if u guys think u can play some bgh and have fun playing the game and be competive ..... and if we can play low money maps ( which we showed we can ) then why not keep playing them if we are having fun with a touch of competitivness. After all isn;t this game about fun?
Buds ^^ I think the flaming is over. No need to bring any more controversy, because there was none. Let's stop causing repetitive arguments and just enjoy something we are all into, SC and liqui poker
surado ^^, the reason why i said that was because i had thought you guys had posted the "friendly" bgh matches vs myself and an alternate getting slayed ezly just for shits and giggles ^^.
about being more prepared than us.. ctstalker and i practiced many bgh games together, and it was disappointing that he had an unavoidable work shift to do ^^.
it was bm to say that we would pwn ezly on low money maps. austria and player[craft] were quite manner, and in retrospect i regret it. my comment was originally referring to player + austria, but i would love to play some friendly games with you guys anyways ^^.
On January 23 2007 17:09 Manifesto7 wrote: Wow, what a clusterfuck this turned in to. I guess we need to grow up before we can have another showmatch with anyone else eh?
yea i kinda stopped checking on this thread after a while. somewhere along the way, the original intention got lost, perhaps desensitized and dulled from its overuse and over quotation.
however, all hope isnt lost yet. soon we'll explore the new BGH TMM map that bill307? made for us (i think?) we'll introduce the rest of our members to this new map and we'll go at it again and once more.. tempt our competitive nature.
On January 23 2007 14:50 em.and.m wrote: It's funny how Gandalf is basicly representing the BGHers and hes flaming away at one of our TL members...
Shows you how mannered they really are O.o - o.O
shut up with that
Calm down kid.
you want to shut up? ill echo idras comment about you and pr0n here, i'd easily rather have any average BGHers forum member here than people like you two
Agree, none BgH community could be worse than TL community in this thread. There are way to many "wannabe" gosus typing spam shit like hell. Some should have been banned since long time, seems they are allowed to stay here to entertain the rest with their brainless crab
On January 23 2007 17:09 Manifesto7 wrote: Wow, what a clusterfuck this turned in to. I guess we need to grow up before we can have another showmatch with anyone else eh?
You rather make your babygirl reading her first book before you could teach this ppl manner ^^
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.bghers.com/e107/e107_images/newspost_images/67678showmatchbanner5copy.jpg)
)
P jkjk
![[image loading]](http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/4616/hahaha7ix.png)
. And you really should have asked, because we are nice people and definitely wouldn't have minded letting you switch 
Thank you for your efforts for the community! 
