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BGHers vs TL.net Requiem - Page 23

Forum Index > BW General
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borg
Profile Joined September 2005
171 Posts
January 22 2007 03:28 GMT
#441
mmm we stuck to the 10 player restriction, even though there was a suggestion to get more players involved (we had a registration form with over 35+ members trying to get in). we figured, we were free to put them in to different teams as we saw fit, as long as we stuck to the same 10 players.
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 04:21:17
January 22 2007 04:16 GMT
#442
Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg

I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Aphelion
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States2720 Posts
January 22 2007 04:28 GMT
#443
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote:
Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg

I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW


On January 21 2007 23:12 Orome wrote:
Good job BGHers!

But, watching those replays has convinced me BGH isn't for me. Not a trace of finesse in all those games. It is the thug's Starcraft.


Amen.
But Garimto was always more than just a Protoss...
Surado-
Profile Joined May 2006
Korea (South)64 Posts
January 22 2007 05:53 GMT
#444
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote:
Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg

I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW


^^ Yes our matches are mostly PPP v PPP, except some matches having a PPR or PR. It is a hunters based match. Zerg can be strong if you know how to micro and pick off units and control your economy, boosting it when game control is managed. I play BGH inhouses with alot of Koreans. These guys are from Kor-Asia and have been doing P wars for many years. They seemed to get addicted to BGH, saying it is like a new realm, and not repitive like Hunters. If you really want to talk about a map being reptitive, it would be Hunters because of how important the first 3 zealot micro is. Because hunters do not have great eco like BGH, you can't really counter or do much when your micro is setback from your opponent. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing, It is just that you guys are not used to it.

www.BGHers.com
Carnac
Profile Blog Joined December 2003
Germany / USA16648 Posts
January 22 2007 05:57 GMT
#445
Yeah, like I said earlier, BGH is simplay an incredibly specialized sort of game (on high level that is)
ModeratorHi! I'm a .signature *virus*! Copy me into your ~/.signature to help me spread!
zZygote
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada898 Posts
January 22 2007 06:37 GMT
#446
I just think we should all respect what maps we favor the most. Whether it be non-money maps or money maps.

Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 06:44:45
January 22 2007 06:44 GMT
#447
i think i was talking to Locked and he brought up a good point, its not "high maps" and "low maps" maps moreso than its "high maps" and "normal maps."

subtle distinction but its a significant one imo.

truly LOW maps is like 4 patches and 800 mins each haha
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 07:17:35
January 22 2007 07:13 GMT
#448
The whole notion of calling some maps "low maps" is ridiculous. These are NORMAL maps. "big money maps" are called that because they contain significantly more resources than the USUAL maps. But it's gotten to the point where so many BW players concentrate on BGH / fast / ZC that they consider playing normal maps unusual.

. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing


Whatever man. We V-Tec players beg to differ. What do you guys differ on? When to send in the zealots to attack? Who to attack first?

I don't mean to be dissing on people who play BGH a lot. If they enjoy it, whatever, it's none of my concern. But to suggest there's many successful strategies in it is laughable. If you're against three protoss players who are massing zealots with an outrageous amount of resources and rushing, what other strategies can you possibly do but mass zlots yourself?

Read the replay text in one of the games. One of the bgher's techs to goons against PPZ, the other bghers criticize him saying his teching lost them the game. Think about what that means... him going for goons instead of sticking with the mass zlots lost them the game.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
intrigue
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Washington, D.C9935 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 07:47:10
January 22 2007 07:18 GMT
#449
a new genre of true low maps might be really interesting, though you might end up just playing micro umses

these games would be like speed chess for starcraft

edit for the post above mine: before darknexus comes in here and rips your head off (i don't mean anything against either of you by this), the tl.netters went for mass zealots/lings first. you really don't need goons against ppz that early, and if i recall correctly two of their players lowered their unit count to go for unnecessary higher tier units.

in a ppp vs ppp, i think teching is more appropriate and common depending on game situation, allowing for more (though still comparatively limited) strategies.
Moderatorsloppy little slug
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
January 22 2007 07:26 GMT
#450
On January 22 2007 14:53 Surado- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2007 13:16 EscPlan9 wrote:
Some bgher mentioned that he hopes this gets some TL.netters addicted to BGH. To win in BGH seems awfully repetitive: team up all with protoss, mass zealots, GOGOGOGOGO ggggggggggggggg

I'm not exaggerating much. Watch the replays and see what the bghers did with PPP. This is clearly the winning formula for BGH. Maybe have one tech to goons, but otherwise zealots FTW


^^ Yes our matches are mostly PPP v PPP, except some matches having a PPR or PR. It is a hunters based match. Zerg can be strong if you know how to micro and pick off units and control your economy, boosting it when game control is managed. I play BGH inhouses with alot of Koreans. These guys are from Kor-Asia and have been doing P wars for many years. They seemed to get addicted to BGH, saying it is like a new realm, and not repitive like Hunters. If you really want to talk about a map being reptitive, it would be Hunters because of how important the first 3 zealot micro is. Because hunters do not have great eco like BGH, you can't really counter or do much when your micro is setback from your opponent. WE in BGH, have different BOs, styles, and game managing, It is just that you guys are not used to it.

Well normal tosswars have alteast 4 builds/strats. 7zeal, 5zeal, fd, allzeal.
On a serious note, I do prefer watching regular tosswars and good mixed race hunters like a strong ZZT team. Dont really know why it gets me a bigger kick than BGH but it does.
Also playing hunters at somewhat high level (as in trying to play good vs non pubbie) is were I really feel that my speed is not even near what I need.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
Surado-
Profile Joined May 2006
Korea (South)64 Posts
January 22 2007 07:26 GMT
#451
On January 22 2007 16:13 EscPlan9 wrote:
Whatever man. We V-Tec players beg to differ. What do you guys differ on? When to send in the zealots to attack? Who to attack first?

I don't mean to be dissing on people who play BGH a lot. If they enjoy it, whatever, it's none of my concern. But to suggest there's many successful strategies in it is laughable. If you're against three protoss players who are massing zealots with an outrageous amount of resources and rushing, what other strategies can you possibly do but mass zlots yourself?

Read the replay text in one of the games. One of the bgher's techs to goons against PPZ, the other bghers criticize him saying his teching lost them the game. Think about what that means... him going for goons instead of sticking with the mass zlots lost them the game.


Ok ^^ Look for something beyond given things. Then you will see BGH is another strategical map ^^. No matter how much I explain to you, you will think in that one way thought. So I don't want to bother.
www.BGHers.com
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
January 22 2007 07:32 GMT
#452
hes not saying that its not strategical at all, he's saying that there's less viable strategies, especially in teamplay

i think it's pretty apparent that this is true
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Surado-
Profile Joined May 2006
Korea (South)64 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 07:37:30
January 22 2007 07:35 GMT
#453
so be it.those "less viable strategies" are substituted with teamwork.
www.BGHers.com
Phyre
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States1288 Posts
January 22 2007 07:37 GMT
#454
Maybe they should try giving some more elevation differences in BGH to encourage build variety. Perhaps all mains be on elevated ground with a ramp? Or the opposite ala Reverse Temple? Seems like that might give some potential for strategies not involving mass zealots a chance, or maybe even a non-protoss race for that matter.
"Oh no, I got you with your pants... on your face... That's not how you wear pants." - Nintu, catching 1 hatch lurks.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
January 22 2007 07:40 GMT
#455
or at least have balanced, cliffable mains for EVERYONE not just certain positions -_-

On January 22 2007 16:35 Surado- wrote:
so be it.those "less viable strategies" are substituted with teamwork.

right, i do agree that it takes a lot of skill to teamplay on basically every map, normal or high resources included
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10835 Posts
January 22 2007 08:08 GMT
#456
On January 22 2007 16:37 Phyre wrote:
Maybe they should try giving some more elevation differences in BGH to encourage build variety. Perhaps all mains be on elevated ground with a ramp? Or the opposite ala Reverse Temple? Seems like that might give some potential for strategies not involving mass zealots a chance, or maybe even a non-protoss race for that matter.

i have an interesting map called The Lost Hunters...
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
X-Men-Pickle
Profile Joined May 2006
United States62 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 09:07:26
January 22 2007 09:01 GMT
#457
ppp isnt the only way to go on bgh. there are other race combinations that can be just as effictive if used right. it's quite common to a ptz win vs a ppp by doing a 9 pool/mass zealot/vulture/tank build. the 9 pool prevents any rush on the terran techer long enough for the protoss to just mass zealots and support lings and by the time they're exahusted the terran kicks in with mines blocking opponents and then harasses their miners. now all of these players need to have a good understanding on how to play it for it to work.. but it can work.
aka Ireland
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 09:18:02
January 22 2007 09:14 GMT
#458
On January 22 2007 16:32 Hot_Bid wrote:
hes not saying that its not strategical at all, he's saying that there's less viable strategies, especially in teamplay

i think it's pretty apparent that this is true


Precisely. I thought this was obviously true, since even the past TL.netter avid defenders of BGH in the "BGH pimpest plays thread", such as Gandalf, have said there are very few viable strategies in the game, and the best players know those few extremely well.

And teamwork helps on any map so that's not really relevant. Good teamwork can overcome past errors regardless of the map.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 18:58:25
January 22 2007 18:56 GMT
#459
I know PPP isn't the only way to go, but it's the easiest of the high success rate strategies to do (I'm no BGH pro by any means, so correct me if I'm wrong). I could have missed one of the replays, but I'm pretty sure every BGHer picked PP/PPP in those games and likely for the reasons I mentioned.
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Gandalf
Profile Joined August 2004
Pakistan1905 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-22 22:51:59
January 22 2007 22:44 GMT
#460
On January 22 2007 00:39 Bill307 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 22 2007 00:30 Surado- wrote:
Ah, Bill, lOki asked me to upload ALL the replays of the games we played. I didnt mean to upset you or make you look bad (besides in the replay text it says that it was a mistake that you thought it was tvp and we should re so it doesn't really matter). My only intention was to listen to the orders ^^. If you think I care about scores, then its a NO, I posted earlier I don't care win or lose, just GG's.

If it is included in the replay pack (which I think shouldn't be, because the only replays that should be included are the "official" showmatch games) then I will apologize and I will tell the admins to take it out right away.

Thanks. It really didn't make sense to me, but now I understand. Although, if you had defied his order and didn't upload that one game, I don't think he would have noticed/cared!

You don't need to ask them to change the score or remove the replay. Now that I know it was an accident, I don't mind.


Yeah, I was asking everyone to upload every single replay because I was aware a lot of people were playing more games than the required bo1 on low maps. Surado is my slave so he never questions me haha, but yeah, he's a nice guy and he probably sent it to fwiffo for uploading because he didnt want to cause any trouble.

EDIT: I had no clue as to what happened in that game.
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