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Edit: Iccup topic: http://iccup.com/en/starcraft/community/thread/745487.html
Dear Iccup admins! I firstly write this to you, and secondly to everyone else.
So I was talking to my old sas friends, and they told me this:
There should be no ladder reset on iccup any more. I thought about it and it makes sense. I will explain to you now. There were some changes in the community in the last few years, and the server needs to adapt to these new circumstances.
The most important change is that the number of players has decreased vastly, and we must face it: it probably won't get too much better. This is normal though, Brood War is an old game. The interest declined, and players have grown up, they don't always have that much time to play. Many players just come up every few weeks or months to play some games for nostalgia. By the time they reach (if they reach) their proper rank, there is a reset.
Since there are fewer players, there are less games, so its harder, and takes more time to find games, especially on higher ranks.
This led to ranks getting distorted (the lower ranks are stronger, the high ranks don't really show hierarchy because there is noone to play against, the only thing matters is who plays more against lowers.)
If there was no reset, there would be more high accounts, since people would have more time to reach their real rank.
With this, everyone wins because
1. With more high accounts, it would be a bit easier to find games on higher rank, thus increasing the willingness of higher ranked users to play, thus increasing the number of higher games even more.
2. The lower ranked players would have to deal with a bit less noob bashing and so wouldn't get discouraged so easily.
3. All in all you will have more chance to play in your real rank.
Now this process needs some time to show signs of improvement. Maybe half a year or a year at least?
Right now, every 3 months, there is a reset. It makes no point to make a reset when the ranking system is not even fully used. I mean, there are basicly no A rankers. It's over the middle of the season, and i still often met former b- people in d+ rank. I think no reset, or maybe longer seasons (like 1 year?) could help a little. In any case, we should try it at least, if you agree.
I've created a poll to see what you think about this. If you disagree, please write down why. And all creative thoughts are welcomed.
Poll: Do you think no ladder reset on iccup is a good idea?Yes (25) 35% No (7) 10% Maybe 1 year long seasons would be better. (39) 54% Other (1) 1% 72 total votes Your vote: Do you think no ladder reset on iccup is a good idea? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Maybe 1 year long seasons would be better.
(Vote): Other
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TLADT24920 Posts
It's an interesting idea for sure. I would prefer that there is either no resets or it's a yearly one instead. Also, might be best to post this on their site since they'll likely see it there more than on here.
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On August 01 2014 14:29 BigFan wrote:
Also, might be best to post this on their site since they'll likely see it there more than on here.
Exactly this. It'd be probably better to open a thread on iccup parallel to this one and link to the iccup one in your OP.
Praxis "Problems":
Also, the non-BW admins reset the server stats after each season. This might be a bigger problem, because the DotA server will be resetted as well, and their numbers are still big enough to support resets. Hence, I'm not sure it's possible to fiddle with the server just like that.
Related: It won't stop players from resetting on their own via the reset command. If you go through with it, you would also have to forbid manual resets. That should not be such a big problem, just wanted to point out, that most of the resetting is done by players and a ton of them might be upset to not have the feature at hand.
Theoretical Problems:
Then, would that really generate the outcome you hope for? Rankings are a problematic issue in my opinion, same goes for Auto Match Making or the implementation of a different ranking scheme, e.g. ELO or Glicko2. It's really early in the morning for me, I haven't finished thinking this through, but I'll share my trail of thoughts nonetheless:
Assuming the 'true skill' of a player can be estimated and furthermore doesn't change on a day by day basis, it would also mean that a small user base must not show a really high stratification. In other words, if nobody ever resets, if everyone's skill would be stable in a certain ranking point interval (e.g. 6500 - 6800 points), it would not mean you gain a solution to the "good players do not find games" problem, because only very few would have many points. Even if there would be enough players with high points (e.g. 500 players), they will never be online at the same time. South Americans, Americans in general and Russians would rarely meet -> timezones. You'd end up playing down or up again.
True enough though, the ICCup ranking scheme starts a stratification rather soon. If ELO would be used, the stratification wouldn't be too bad. I assume no good player, regardless of skill, would really score more than about 1,600 points with our small user base. It'd be easier for them to play against somewhat equally skilled players. However, the players in the D ranks would have to suffer at the start of the season and really would be required to enter a long(er) losing streak than before, just to find games on their level. Not sure if that'd be good. At least technically speaking, the ELO code should be implemented as native system in PVPGN.
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I'm very curious to see the results of this. It doesnt stop players from using /clearstats though
I'm going to tell you right now though, this WON'T ever happen. Due to the way ICCup was designed, ladder resets are an all-or-nothing approach, all games are reset at once.
One of BW and DotA seasons were cut short due to the release DotA 2 because of this design.
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Not resetting the ladder would be a good thing it would increase the number of yellow and blue rank. And would render overtime /clearstat meaningless.
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I'd like it.this means i can still strive for C,without failing for almost no games/
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On August 01 2014 17:10 iFU.pauline wrote:
Not resetting the ladder would be a good thing it would increase the number of yellow and blue rank. And would render overtime /clearstat meaningless.
That also has a side benefit of new players being completely demolished by B rank players who are still stuck in D because they can't be bothered to ladder after a reset. I know personally a few people who got put off even playing the game because of that.
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Clearstats shouldn't be forbidden. people can do it themselves if they want. Actually you need to keep that freedom for players.
I'm not saying this would solve all the problems that the lack of players created, it would just make the situation a bit better, and it seemed simple to really put into effect, since i thought it doesn't require that much tech work. However, if it really is like how you say, that bw is bound to dota, and that can't be changed, then probably it's a wasted idea...
I'll create a topic op iccup anyway to see what they say there.
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On August 01 2014 20:20 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2014 17:10 iFU.pauline wrote:
Not resetting the ladder would be a good thing it would increase the number of yellow and blue rank. And would render overtime /clearstat meaningless. That also has a side benefit of new players being completely demolished by B rank players who are still stuck in D because they can't be bothered to ladder after a reset. I know personally a few people who got put off even playing the game because of that.
it happened to me a couple times (getting completely demolished in D even though I had played decently enough) and it is a bit annoying yes.
however I play one or 2 games every 3 months or so out of Nostalgia, I dont even care if I get ROFLstomped, BW is its own reward (at least for me).
Of course, if I played 10 games in a row and got smahed 10 times I can see how it would affect me
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4 or 6 months will be ok I think..
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EPT
