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Active: 704 users

Kor pro-mapper speaking about ARKANOID

Forum Index > BW General
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NeVeRDiEDrOnE
Profile Joined January 2005
Korea (South)227 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-09-07 19:58:34
September 07 2006 04:14 GMT
#1
This is a post by Forgotten_ from OGN mappers team, about the creating process of his latest work, which I regard the next map revolution after ROV:

ARKANOID


original post in Korean here (from PGR21.com)

current OSL maps thread here


...


Arkanoid for DL here


[image loading]



...


#0
As some of you guys already noticed, we OGN Mappers haven't published our analisis for a while. For the simple reason:

"'CAUSE WE GOT FLAMED THE ASS FOR OUR EFFORT"

Originally the analysis were thought as a kind of usere' manual, an after-service, but after noticing people not really caring about it, we started doubting. And since forseeing progamers' play was nearly impossible we changed the analysis to simpler map introductions.


...


#1
Creating new maps takes somewhat a lot, and somewhat little efforts. For my case, it takes about 2 hours approx. to have the relief and then the raugh versions cause I have relatively fast hands. Elder mappers take more time, and no idea about the youngers. BUT architecturing and correcting takes a LOT more time.

So I thought: "How can I show the effort I poured in my work? How should people know about it?" And I decided to post a summary of side notes I had done by creating Alkanoid. There are more things to talk about too than the correction 'new Baekdu' and the standard 'Tau Cross'.


...


#2 the inspiration
Maybe the idea was from me, or maybe not. Everything starts in feb 2005:
Rose.of.Dream, who was doing all the pro-mapping activities alone back that time, asked me if I wanna join the mapper team he's founding. I said yes, and that was the first time I met [Ragnarok]Valkyrie.

V. had 3 new map concepts at that time. One was the famous 'Ride of Valkyries', the others were 'Hex' and 'BaekDuDeGan'. But the BaekDu was a completely different map than the current one being islands with 3 startings, and wasn't chosen cause islands were out.

So 'Hex'. I don't even remember how many players that map had now, it just had mins(8 mins) wall every entrance, and with 2 workers one could reach to the opponent main. Fortunately V. still had a jpg of it:


[image loading]



We were concentrated on ROV and treated Hex as forgotten, just after creating Alkanoid I realized that it is anouther version of Hex having neutral buildings instead of min walls...


...


#3 the start
Anyway, I was conctructing a 2on2 map for the 2006 SKY ProLeague, and used the concept of Arkanoid. This time with the right name. It looked like this:


[image loading]



The concept was to strengthen the T-P combi and air units at the same, and it got nominated with MangWoel(full moon) into the last round of OGN map congress. The pro teams' opinion was that Iron Curton and Arkanoid at the same time was a bit too much strategically focussed, so we decided for MangWoel. Maybe good maybe not-_-;

I felt sorry for the concept of Alkanoid then, so I fixed it to a 1on1 version and made the current one out of it.

And I even have given it two names - Ark blue and yellow - for an eventual 2on2 map next season, but I almost have given up that idea by now.


...


#4 the general balance
Conceptual maps are pretty hard for balance tunings. So it's a real adventure every time, resulting into either a big success or a huge flaming. Since one can't exactly calculate the balance out of other maps' statistics, one tries to compare with them and look for the similarities. So the same case by Arkanoid.

We regard every map as islanded when zerg can't get the natural with drone only. On islands zergs normally have limited possibilities. So the first thing I did after modulating the map into 1on1 was enabling the natural. And the two neutrals on each side of main disappeared.

But it would be a problem if everyone only goes for triple resources straight, which seemed likely even in mirror mu's now. Because of that new neutrals were placed directly on the naturals, enabling zergs to get gas at least as a compromiss.

I wasn't sure about the correct HP of neutrals and went for 700 randomly. After pro-testing it was tuned to 250*4=1000.


...


#5 T-P balance
"Unfair that T can build CC first and destroy the neutrals meanwhile, and P can't!" You're right. But I tried to foresee further, comparing the case with Dark Sauron II.

The shortly revived DS wasn't a success in terms of balance or gameplay, but all I needed were the BO relations: P goes no-gate 2Nexus, and T reacts with no-rax 2CC. And then? P goes 3N straight, and wins out of resources.

I regarded it as the keypoint of the map that T is still the hardest race for expanding. It isn't just the difference of if 300 or 400 mins are spent by exping. It's about how hard it is to defend after exping, and I thought T will have later 2nd exp than toss due to large vulnurablity by 3 resources to harrassments. So gaming-deciding would be the timing when T comes out of base opening the neutrals, or how the air units like shuttles or carriers act before settling tripple resources.


Pro's for P: early 3rd resource, carrier-encouraging landshape

Pro's for T: early 2nd recource, ground-based landshape, hard to defend 3 recources at once


There was only 1 official TP game until now, but it was very meaningful. During the test games trippled T's were especially weak to reavers or carriers, and there was timings for P-grounds to break through too. So it was intended for P to weaken the current T mainstream.


...


#6 T-Z balance
TZ on this map strongly depends on BO decisions. It looks like this:

when Z goes safty(entrance hatch/sunken def first): good vs offensive T(3rax rush), bad vs defensive(2CC)
by risky Z play(3 gas first): the opposite case

Of course there were other T BO's like 2SP wraith or fast dropship, and strong and weak Z BO's related to them.

This BO-relationship is not quite a fair one, not in terms of percentage, yet T takes far stronger overhand by correct BO decisions then Z the same case, deciding the game as a rule. But still I treated it as balanced regarding the possibilities of using Ovis terminating BO overhand mostly.

Parallel Lines III was the map compared the most handling this, where T went mostly fast exp and lost a lot vs 2gased mutas. So I expected that T would play grounded, like 3rines 2nd CC, rather then using island BO's.


Pro's for Z:
BO scoutings with ovi, relief encouraging muts, easy 3 gas.

Pro's for T:
fast 2nd CC, easy dropships, good for 2fac grounds


There were 2 official TZ games in total, 1 T win with a mech BO using map advantages, and 1 for Z with low-ecoed mutz vs fast CC. ProTeams were regarding it as T-favoriting, but as the 2SP wraiths BO has been disarmed I expect a air-based Z BO mainstream with key point on mut micro.


...


#7 P-Z balance
I was worried about PZ the most, and not the 'strong T overhand'. When the mainstrom would go to ground battles it's clearly favouriting Z, and the opposite by island battles. Quite one-sided each case.

And there weren't any similar maps for this either. So all I could do was to analyse it down to its basics.

First of all, I thought the expansions with neutrals wouldn't favourite any side. P could go exp after 1-2 lots, and Z 9 pool with ovi first.

The 3 entrances smile for Z, but it's still ok with narrow entrances and high HP of neutrals.

And as on 815 it wouldn't be too easy for P being not a completly islanded map, so mains would have 9 mins at least.


Pro's for Z:
3 chokes, easy 3gas, weak neutrals

Pro's for P:
1gate play possible, no-forge 2nex possible by non-aggressive Z, easy 3gas, islands-like reliefs, narrow paths for ground battles.


There wasn't any official ZP game yet, I expect a 1-2lot nex---> ground scenario, or corsair first--->splash P vs macro Z scenario


...


#8 prognosis
At first it will depend a lot on BO decisions probably. Since there is a great variety of possible strategies, it will go various BO's vs various, resulting in short games at the beginning.

But when the 'bad cards' get sorted out and the map gets its own mainstreams, it will probably turn out imba in some MUs, and will be corrected then of course. Just it will take longer for progamers to characterise the map this time, due to the strategical variety.

Anyway, I hope you guys will be suprised by the incredible strategies progamers bring this time, and hope that 'this will be a map where players play vs players actually, and not races vs races' as someone told me once.






by Forgotten_ (Sng-Yeon CHO)
NeVeRDiEDrOnE
Profile Joined January 2005
Korea (South)227 Posts
September 07 2006 04:15 GMT
#2
Neither the article nor my translation is very scientific, still I wanted to share the backgrounds and the way a Kor mapper thinks about his piece.

If anyone wanna make a more shaped translation plz feel free for it
SCNewb
Profile Joined June 2006
Canada2210 Posts
September 07 2006 04:15 GMT
#3
thanks for posting this........interesting read
Huge iloveOov fan
RiSE
Profile Joined April 2004
United States3182 Posts
September 07 2006 04:18 GMT
#4
Nice, thanks. I haven't played any games on it but it actually looks rather frustrating
heavy hand upon the land, feel it's weight inside you
pooper-scooper
Profile Joined May 2003
United States3108 Posts
September 07 2006 04:27 GMT
#5
Very interesting, I appreciate you doing it.
Good...Bad... Im the guy with the gun
Phantom
Profile Joined September 2004
Canada2151 Posts
September 07 2006 04:30 GMT
#6
cool read, and i enjoy the pics ^^
http://www.gosugamers.net/starcraft2/members/Phantom
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
September 07 2006 04:31 GMT
#7
I actually read all that... It is rare for me to read something that long but I enjoyed it.

Map makers are truly underappreciated. They are what we play on...
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
haduken
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Australia8267 Posts
September 07 2006 04:37 GMT
#8
There is some thing i don't understand.

Say a certain Matchup is imb on certain maps while other Matchups are balanced.
Wouldn't it make sense to just choose what ever map is balanced for wat ever matchup? and use other maps for other match ups?
or is this too much of an effort for OGN.
Rillanon.au
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
September 07 2006 04:45 GMT
#9
Despite the amount of effort that was put into this map, I hate it. It screams gimmicky. It's great he is trying to innovate, but this seems more like UMS than a professional SC map.
Moderator
SchOOl_VicTIm
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Greece2394 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-09-07 04:58:18
September 07 2006 04:57 GMT
#10
awesome read, thx

btw, isn't the map name aRkanoid ??
NeVeRDiEDrOnE
Profile Joined January 2005
Korea (South)227 Posts
Last Edited: 2006-09-07 08:51:58
September 07 2006 04:57 GMT
#11
@haduken

yeah the MU map choices have been discussed a long time on PGR21 too, but there wasn't any reponce from OGN (which frequently happends) yet. Maybe it's not realisable for some insider reasons.

But one reason against that would be anyway that there aren't that many maps claimed EXTREMELY one-sided(and all extremes got flamed to death), and by not extreme cases balance changes quite often following the BO mainstreams.


@SchOOl_VicTIm

OMG the old Korean L-R problem lemme fix it XD

EDIT: fixed ROFL


@Chill

yeah the looks aren't that great, but better this way than good-looking disasters like Alchemist or the recent Pioneer Period
Zeto
Profile Joined January 2005
United States2290 Posts
September 07 2006 05:10 GMT
#12
that must've taken forever to translate. thanks!
hay hay mayé, todos los negros tomamos maté!
NeVeRDiEDrOnE
Profile Joined January 2005
Korea (South)227 Posts
September 07 2006 05:15 GMT
#13
yes it has >_<

<3 for enjoying dudes though
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
September 07 2006 05:21 GMT
#14
Very interesting, thx a lot for translating! Much appreciated <3
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Maestro[5thF]
Profile Joined June 2006
Romania155 Posts
September 07 2006 05:23 GMT
#15
love this maps with new tactics !
4 the real master sAviOr
NeVeRDiEDrOnE
Profile Joined January 2005
Korea (South)227 Posts
September 07 2006 08:53 GMT
#16
Would be nice if any admin could fix the title thx
Bill307
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada9103 Posts
September 07 2006 08:54 GMT
#17
Thank you for the translation! It was a very enjoyable read . I hope we will see some really interesting and innovative strategies on that map.
Peyong
Profile Joined August 2006
Trinidad/Tobago119 Posts
September 07 2006 08:56 GMT
#18
nice read ^^
Sea, Sun and Sand
Manifesto7
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Osaka27140 Posts
September 07 2006 09:00 GMT
#19
Very awsome article. It exposes a side of the game which we almost never get to see. Thanks for all your hard work!
ModeratorGodfather
garandou
Profile Joined October 2004
Germany518 Posts
September 07 2006 09:05 GMT
#20
too bad no one plays (or rather played ) this map on PGT even though it is motw :/
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