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oxKnu
1240 Posts
Generally in this thread I've seen that people are dismissing the improvement in mechanics in the last couple of years compared to a decade ago. For me it's quite simple: the same guys that were at the top in the early years are here (with some exceptions), so naturally they have become better mechanically, that's why the gap is so much bigger right now between pros and amateurs. | ||
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Jealous
10260 Posts
On October 21 2018 07:27 oxKnu wrote: ^In a way you are right, which is also why Flash is so much better than anyone else. Mechanically impeccable and KNOWS the game better than anyone else. Generally in this thread I've seen that people are dismissing the improvement in mechanics in the last couple of years compared to a decade ago. For me it's quite simple: the same guys that were at the top in the early years are here (with some exceptions), so naturally they have become better mechanically, that's why the gap is so much bigger right now between pros and amateurs. There are a few factors that need to be addressed, though: 1. People who have persistent physical ailments. Jaedong comes to mind. Apparently Flash's wrist surgery went well nearly 10 years ago and he has grown into it, for example. 2. Time since changing from KeSPA to SC2 back to BW. Some players have latency periods which don't coincide as well. 3. Time spent playing at the top of the competitive level in BW during the KeSPA era. Some players have a wealth of knowledge that to this day doesn't seem to be replaceable by others. For example, Stork is a strong player on ladder largely due to his longevity and not his mechanics IMO. 4. Age. Age has hurt more players than it has helped, but it is sometimes counterbalanced by experience in the KeSPA scene prior to its dissolution. Players like Stork have experienced more interactions that are "non-standard" than any other player out there today. Flash is included in that, as well as Light, Jaedong, possibly Effort, and some other players from those eras (Shuttle, Mind, etc.). | ||
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oxKnu
1240 Posts
I'll just chalk it up to BW being a game that requires highly skilled individuals performing with a bag of previous experience in order to be competitive at the highest levels. Is playing guitar any different? The violin? Being a high skilled chess player? No. That's its charm. And most probably the reason it will die off too, unless another RTS comes on that revives its spirit (SC2 is NOT that) | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19300 Posts
On October 22 2018 11:31 Yanokabo wrote: People are cheating themselves if they say they can’t beat flash though. It’s a fact that he’s the best prepared, practices, and eager to improve and learn pro gamer that there’s really ever been in this esport, which is why he’s top. But in a game as funky as Starcraft the whole nature of it is knocking down the king. Hoping shuttle can pull it off on Tuesday. Shuttle can do it if he doesn't default to two base carrier lol. Shuttle actually plays carriers well, but I'd like to see him beat Flash with more fundamental play. I think he can win using strong gateway armies and arbiters. | ||
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Yanokabo
268 Posts
On October 22 2018 11:36 BisuDagger wrote: Shuttle can do it if he doesn't default to two base carrier lol. Shuttle actually plays carriers well, but I'd like to see him beat Flash with more fundamental play. I think he can win using strong gateway armies and arbiters. I agree flash has his most vulnerable matchup historically is tvp. What shuttle needs to do is not die to flash barracks expand / early pressure off 2 base that flash uses to kill every tvp game he plays on his stream. Maybe opening 1 gate observer double expand and then adding a bunch of gates super fast and goons and zealot legs, and having just flawless control defensively. You know flash will be testing for chinks in his armor from second 1 of the countdown to the game. From there if he can surround flash and take the map, he could achieve victory. Flash is really good at defending recalls so I would omit that from my game plan. Use stasis and storm drops, to trade In an economically friendly fashion with flash defense. And get observed speed/sight range so u don’t needlessly die to flash’s mines. Flash is one of the best vultures and mines players so shuttle needs to protect his probes like they’re worth their weight in gold. He shouldn’t do any gatecheese unless he’s super confident and practiced it a ton, cause flash marine control is as good as can be. | ||
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
 Is it just me? | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
1) vs NaDa on Othello; and 2) vs Flash on Pathfinder ? Or has he only done that in these 2 official games? Can't seem to find any other on YouTube. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On October 26 2018 01:06 weiliem wrote: About Jangbi, does any1 recall any other PvT games where Jangbi demonstrated amazing storms besides: 1) vs NaDa on Othello; and 2) vs Flash on Pathfinder ? Or has he only done that in these 2 official games? Can't seem to find any other on YouTube. JangBi did use high templars extra-ordinarily well regardless of the match-up, but you pretty much covered the highlight reel worthy high templar plays within the protoss-versus-terran match-up. It is not that he didn't use them to combat the terran army more efficiently (watch his games versus Memory or Light, for instance), but outside of the two mentioned, the highlight reel plays came from other protoss players (because such plays are literally once in a lifetime moments). Before JangBi, Reach was known as the master of such plays after beating down BoxeR with exquisite high templar usage way back in 2022, and probably had one of the better high templar plays to defeat Flash in a seemingly disadvantageous battle (he later went on to lose the game despite the miraculous outplay). Players such as free and Shuttle are also known for their good high templar usage also, but their best high templar plays versus the terran race was probably done after the professional scene came to an end. | ||
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prosatan
Romania8514 Posts
On October 26 2018 03:00 Letmelose wrote: JangBi did use high templars extra-ordinarily well regardless of the match-up, but you pretty much covered the highlight reel worthy high templar plays within the protoss-versus-terran match-up. It is not that he didn't use them to combat the terran army more efficiently (watch his games versus Memory or Light, for instance), but outside of the two mentioned, the highlight reel plays came from other protoss players (because such plays are literally once in a lifetime moments). Before JangBi, Reach was known as the master of such plays after beating down BoxeR with exquisite high templar usage way back in 2022, and probably had one of the better high templar plays to defeat Flash in a seemingly disadvantageous battle (he later went on to lose the game despite the miraculous outplay). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC8mfV3qLIk&t=17m14s Players such as free and Shuttle are also known for their good high templar usage also, but their best high templar plays versus the terran race was probably done after the professional scene came to an end. Good calling Free!! I remember he was called "Battle God " for his good micro ! | ||
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weiliem
2071 Posts
On October 26 2018 03:00 Letmelose wrote: JangBi did use high templars extra-ordinarily well regardless of the match-up, but you pretty much covered the highlight reel worthy high templar plays within the protoss-versus-terran match-up. It is not that he didn't use them to combat the terran army more efficiently (watch his games versus Memory or Light, for instance), but outside of the two mentioned, the highlight reel plays came from other protoss players (because such plays are literally once in a lifetime moments). Before JangBi, Reach was known as the master of such plays after beating down BoxeR with exquisite high templar usage way back in 2022, and probably had one of the better high templar plays to defeat Flash in a seemingly disadvantageous battle (he later went on to lose the game despite the miraculous outplay). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC8mfV3qLIk&t=17m14s Players such as free and Shuttle are also known for their good high templar usage also, but their best high templar plays versus the terran race was probably done after the professional scene came to an end. WOW that storm from Reach!!! That's freaking amazing! | ||
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prosatan
Romania8514 Posts
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DJONES
United States218 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8785 Posts
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
On October 27 2018 13:20 DJONES wrote: I'm a little late to this discussion. Can someone explain to me what is happening in the BW community? Why are Flash and other top players not playing SC2 anymore? (I haven't been keeping up with the scene since everyone switched to SC2...but I'm glad to hear it. BW>>>>>>>>>SC2) They saw the error of their ways and came back to the one true starcraft. | ||
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Highgamer
1444 Posts
they want fame, and smartcasting is just lame. | ||
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AntiHack
Switzerland553 Posts
On October 27 2018 13:20 DJONES wrote: I'm a little late to this discussion. Can someone explain to me what is happening in the BW community? Why are Flash and other top players not playing SC2 anymore? (I haven't been keeping up with the scene since everyone switched to SC2...but I'm glad to hear it. BW>>>>>>>>>SC2) Watch KSL 2017 (and 2018) on Twitch, it perform 65k live viewers in the finals. Also ASL onYT EDIT: BW have been remastered if you didn't know it | ||
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DJONES
United States218 Posts
On October 27 2018 13:26 evilfatsh1t wrote: because they dont like sc2 as much as bw and the fans dont like sc2 as much as bw. simple as that Hell ya that's what I like to hear. I stopped following the scene because all the good players went over to SC2. (If you're wondering what I meant by BW>>>>>>>>SC2...that means Brood War greater than sign SC2...do you guys even nerd here? 😂😂) | ||
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DJONES
United States218 Posts
On October 27 2018 14:32 Starlightsun wrote: They saw the error of their ways and came back to the one true starcraft. I'm so glad haha. Now I can actually watch some new high level BW. Watching foreigners play BW is lowkey 💩 | ||
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DJONES
United States218 Posts
On October 27 2018 23:09 AntiHack wrote: Watch KSL 2017 (and 2018) on Twitch, it perform 65k live viewers in the finals. Also ASL onYT EDIT: BW have been remastered if you didn't know it I'll check it out. Full arenas watching Starcraft...that's too fucking awesome. | ||
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