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For example, we want replays to be automatically uploaded, so our launcher would be dependent on our website. Statistics on our website will be dependent on the data provided by the game server and so on.
Consider generating sample data. It's very common practice for development databases not to have the same data as the production side. You just need to have enough communication to know what the tables are. That way your project doesn't get bogged down with everyone waiting for everyone else to finish what they're doing.
Especially for stats of the website, that's very easy. All you will change in the production version is the route to the database, at least if you aren't cobbling together PHP too much and have some kind of structure.
The launcher being dependant on the website doesn't make much sense to me. I don't know how you're doing it, but surely the replayid (and other data related to the replay, like the userid) is just a table in the database. You want to make sure it is uploaded SOMEWHERE (url/replayid) but all you need is webspace for that, not a completed website.
This is one good reason the terms development, test and production database exist :o
Since I never (to my knowledge) met hackers in my experience with iCCup, I wonder what you saw as the faults in it and if you can say, how you are really intending to improve it. Especially since as far as I know, APMLive was disabled in the launcher specifically because what it needed to be functional was something many hacks use as well. These are things you could talk about!
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On September 17 2013 01:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +For example, we want replays to be automatically uploaded, so our launcher would be dependent on our website. Statistics on our website will be dependent on the data provided by the game server and so on. Consider generating sample data. It's very common practice for development databases not to have the same data as the production side. You just need to have enough communication to know what the tables are. That way your project doesn't get bogged down with everyone waiting for everyone else to finish what they're doing. Especially for stats of the website, that's very easy. All you will change in the production version is the route to the database, at least if you aren't cobbling together PHP too much and have some kind of structure. The launcher being dependant on the website doesn't make much sense to me. I don't know how you're doing it, but surely the replayid (and other data related to the replay, like the userid) is just a table in the database. You want to make sure it is uploaded SOMEWHERE (url/replayid) but all you need is webspace for that, not a completed website. This is one good reason the terms development, test and production database exist :o Since I never (to my knowledge) met hackers in my experience with iCCup, I wonder what you saw as the faults in it and if you can say, how you are really intending to improve it. Especially since as far as I know, APMLive was disabled in the launcher specifically because what it needed to be functional was something many hacks use as well. These are things you could talk about!
Final release will be dependent on the website, but we're using sample data while testing different parts of the site/launcher/server of course  I've met several hackers on iCCup and many others have as well, so part of that is just updating the anti-hack.
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On September 17 2013 01:59 Chef wrote:
Since I never (to my knowledge) met hackers in my experience with iCCup, I wonder what you saw as the faults in it and if you can say, how you are really intending to improve it. Especially since as far as I know, APMLive was disabled in the launcher specifically because what it needed to be functional was something many hacks use as well. These are things you could talk about!
There are things that could be better. Since October 2010, this happened a lot, when launcher upgrades were done (which only improved either DotA or WoW):
- the registry entries were messed up and nobody could join
- the LANLat plug-in was magically disabled
- the AH was not working
Hence, not having to rely on the good will of the DotA teams would be great. Most times either one of the points happened or all of the above, sometimes only for a few hours, sometimes for two days straight.
Keep in mind, I have little to no knowledge about the technical details, I can't code shit, nor do I understand anything but very basic HTML (not that you would need to understand it), all my 'wisdom' comes from talking to people. But for what I got told my several devs of ICCup and the guy who hosted the broodwar.de newb server, the APM Live plug as well as several others would make hacks easier to work. Doesn't mean there are many hacks out there which would work on ICCup right now. In the three years I have been on and off in the admin team we only encountered one 'legit' hack case, where both parties (hacker and hack victim) had AH enabled. A thousand reports will say AH was on, but if you have a closer look, you'll discover that either a D- player reported a false positive, or that he meant to say he had AH on, while the opponent didn't. I don't remember who it was, but the most prominent case of a map hacker not being caught by the system automatically was during a Defiler Tour (that wasn't Neagle, sorry). You can try it out for yourself, go to google and search for the most popular map hacks, none of them will work on ICC. That's the point - nobody, at least to my knowledge, has found the map hack the guy used in the Defiler Tour a few months ago. And this particular hack was easy to spot with BWChart, since it didn't even try to hide impossible clicks, had auto-gather activated and multi commands all the way. This was very confusing to research, really. Remembering the big waves after auto-gather, 0-click and the bypass tool, all cases had one thing in common: There was a huge flood of people being caught. Yet, the guy caught in the Defiler Tournament remained the only case. It was just this guy. Makes me believe it's one of these obscure private hacks you need to pay for, not that I know if they're that common or not, because all the real popular hacks you find on google just don't work (and there are no newer ones around). And this raises the question: How can you be sure you found every hack, if you don't have the hack to test it for certainty?
You should be really, really sure what you say there. Once people find out there was one hack case, they gonna kick in your doors and report every anon Ceratul1337 for cheesing.
Moreover, you shouldn't really focus on so many new plug-ins, nor on fancy features like auto-match-making. Especially the latter reads great on first glimpse, but have you thought that really through? Regardless of what kind of ranking you will use (Elo, Glicko2, <other>), it's still only an estimate. Furthermore, an estimate with a really small sample. If you don't get a really big player base (at least double the number ICC has right now) this might make matches quite boring for every player who isn't "average". The top player base will meet lower ranked players, real newbs will meet casuals and so on and so forth. Also, the majority of ICC users does not play more than 50-100 games per season, I really have an odd feeling about the plug, given that the player base will nothing like SCII, FISH or the VS Platform. It'll be more like Garena or ICC.
Next point, how will it work for 2on2? Do you assume every team will be the same rank (e.g. D D vs D D) and not like you see so often (D C vs D+ C-)? Making this happen seems like an awefully complicated issue.
Don't get me wrong, automated hosting would be super pro (fully support that), same goes for match making. Imo, it'd be really enough to include the hosting features and let go the AMM idea. AMM really isn't needed with classic b.net if you can host. Also, be aware of the dodging players. That's tradition. Don't know how they'd react. Prolly go to Garena or shit.
Other questions, which weren't asked yet: How do you plan the registration? Everyone can sign up as often as he wants, or will you make a manual registration? I can only recommend you to avoid smurfs at first (go manual), this really gets annoying, especially if you want to get a hold on possible hackers (that is if you can join the server without AH at all, because, believe me, there will be plenty of hackers without an AH around and even more idiots willing to play them and complain afterwards).
How are disc cases handled? Any need to make complaints at all? How will it go for 2on2? (most discs happen in 2on2)
Expecting legal problems? After all it's going to be a pirate server and you never know what Blizz is up to nowadays.
Will the page have a stream portal like TL/Defiler?
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On September 17 2013 01:59 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +For example, we want replays to be automatically uploaded, so our launcher would be dependent on our website. Statistics on our website will be dependent on the data provided by the game server and so on. Consider generating sample data. It's very common practice for development databases not to have the same data as the production side. You just need to have enough communication to know what the tables are. That way your project doesn't get bogged down with everyone waiting for everyone else to finish what they're doing. Especially for stats of the website, that's very easy. All you will change in the production version is the route to the database, at least if you aren't cobbling together PHP too much and have some kind of structure. The launcher being dependant on the website doesn't make much sense to me. I don't know how you're doing it, but surely the replayid (and other data related to the replay, like the userid) is just a table in the database. You want to make sure it is uploaded SOMEWHERE (url/replayid) but all you need is webspace for that, not a completed website. This is one good reason the terms development, test and production database exist :o Since I never (to my knowledge) met hackers in my experience with iCCup, I wonder what you saw as the faults in it and if you can say, how you are really intending to improve it. Especially since as far as I know, APMLive was disabled in the launcher specifically because what it needed to be functional was something many hacks use as well. These are things you could talk about!
Ok maybe i didnt think about this when I was writing it but I'm sure there are some stuff dependent on each other and still needs to go through testing. Regarding our antihack, I don't think it was *very* difficult to write one assuming you're a somewhat experienced programmer. Hacks evolve their own defences when they're being attacked, fortunately(for us at least) Blizzard didn't attack them well. Our antihack is multi-layered and has a system for preventing and detecting known and unknown hacks. It'll be impossible to say that it's not foolproof however with the low amount of hack developers nowadays, we only had to worry about what's already there so I'm confident that the hacking rates will be extremely low or none and hackers will be removed very quickly. Also, we'll be enforcing antihack for ladder games.
Regarding APM Live not being able to co-exist with iCCup's antihack, iCCup just has a different method of detecting hacks so a lot of legit plugins aren't compatible.
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On September 17 2013 07:13 xboi209 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2013 01:59 Chef wrote:For example, we want replays to be automatically uploaded, so our launcher would be dependent on our website. Statistics on our website will be dependent on the data provided by the game server and so on. Consider generating sample data. It's very common practice for development databases not to have the same data as the production side. You just need to have enough communication to know what the tables are. That way your project doesn't get bogged down with everyone waiting for everyone else to finish what they're doing. Especially for stats of the website, that's very easy. All you will change in the production version is the route to the database, at least if you aren't cobbling together PHP too much and have some kind of structure. The launcher being dependant on the website doesn't make much sense to me. I don't know how you're doing it, but surely the replayid (and other data related to the replay, like the userid) is just a table in the database. You want to make sure it is uploaded SOMEWHERE (url/replayid) but all you need is webspace for that, not a completed website. This is one good reason the terms development, test and production database exist :o Since I never (to my knowledge) met hackers in my experience with iCCup, I wonder what you saw as the faults in it and if you can say, how you are really intending to improve it. Especially since as far as I know, APMLive was disabled in the launcher specifically because what it needed to be functional was something many hacks use as well. These are things you could talk about! Ok maybe i didnt think about this when I was writing it but I'm sure there are some stuff dependent on each other and still needs to go through testing. Regarding our antihack, I don't think it was *very* difficult to write one assuming you're a somewhat experienced programmer. Hacks evolve their own defences when they're being attacked, fortunately(for us at least) Blizzard didn't attack them well. Our antihack is multi-layered and has a system for preventing and detecting known and unknown hacks. It'll be impossible to say that it's not foolproof however with the low amount of hack developers nowadays, we only had to worry about what's already there so I'm confident that the hacking rates will be extremely low or none and hackers will be removed very quickly. Also, we'll be enforcing antihack for ladder games.Regarding APM Live not being able to co-exist with iCCup's antihack, iCCup just has a different method of detecting hacks so a lot of legit plugins aren't compatible.
Please make it so for all kind of games, or even a requirement to just log on the server, if it's possible. I've suffered and witnessed drophacks a couple of times playing UMS on iccup. Also, it would be really appreciated if the LAN latency enabling tool is forced for all games as well, in case it's not part of the AH, like the iccup launcher.
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I'm fairly interested in getting into BW I would so play on this :D
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iCCup is messing up really badly right now. If you could release a beta right now it would be a great time.
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Just found out about this, can't fucking wait!
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Russian Federation481 Posts
Is it teoretically possible to change network protocol to make game lagfree like sc2?
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TLADT24920 Posts
On September 23 2013 16:07 Esp1noza wrote:
Is it teoretically possible to change network protocol to make game lagfree like sc2?
lag free? I've never had issues with lag in BW and lots more in SCII unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Also, BW has lan latency which SCII doesn't. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
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Russian Federation481 Posts
On September 23 2013 16:09 BigFan wrote:
lag free? I've never had issues with lag in BW and lots more in SCII unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying. Also, BW has lan latency which SCII doesn't. Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.
Hmmm, I and my friends expierenced much more lags in sc1 and almost never in sc2. It is especially hard to find players to play for example 4v4 without lags. May be it have something to do with port forwarding? Don't know really.
English isn't my main language, by saying lags I don't mean responsivity of units, but small and often freezes when the game becomes unplayable.
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I'd be down, I need a break from dota 2 and SC2 sucks.
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On September 23 2013 16:07 Esp1noza wrote:
Is it teoretically possible to change network protocol to make game lagfree like sc2?
I think that BW's network protocol is already easy, there is no overhead or something. Lag happens when network packets get lost or stuck somewhere on a way between players. There is not that much you can do with it imho. Sending redundancy packets or data won't help that much.
I don't know about sc2, maybe they have adaptive latency, so the game continues to run smoothly but with variable input latency. Just a guess.
Anyway the protocol is hard-coded in BW on top of UDP protocol. It won't be easy to replace that algorithms that operate with UDP data. It's always exclusive thing for every application. You can only encapsulate UDP packets into something else or use tricks like this without much effort.
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On September 23 2013 16:37 AleXoundOS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 16:07 Esp1noza wrote:
Is it teoretically possible to change network protocol to make game lagfree like sc2? I don't know about sc2, maybe they have adaptive latency, so the game continues to run smoothly but with variable input latency. Just a guess.
From my experience with latency in SC2 that's correct, you don't experience frame rate drop on your side, so it seems like it's "lag free", even though your units take longer to actually respond, and packets are being sent slower. It's definitely noticable though when you're in New Zealand playing against North American players though  and even more so on the EU server.
BW and SC2 both suffer from the same latency problems, and it's not really possible to "fix" unless everyone in the world gets optic fibre connections to each other, South Korea style.
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PLEASE LAUNCH THE BETA OF THIS I'M LOSING MY MIND!!!
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This could get me into BW tbh. Can't wait to try it :D
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United States10671 Posts
omg Birdie the god
if this actually happens I'll consider playing bw again lol
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As someone who sadly only found out about the existence of brood war after star 2's release, and someone who loves bw and plays it with his friends every once in a while, I am soooo looking forward to this, may finally be the time where I spent a couple weeks only playing bw
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When you have more than 2 people, you can have odd lag patterns that really make no sense (Players A, B, and C, C lags only if A hosts but B lags only if C hosts etc.).
Battle.net logic makes very little sense.
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EPT
