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Netherlands45349 Posts
On April 20 2012 23:57 ShadeR wrote:
Not buying the whole elephant in the room thing. Not because of the players but rather because of SC2. I do not believe SC2 currently or in the future has the capacity to really show of the skill disparity between god tier players and good players.
I agree with this and truthfully, this is what I am the most afraid of. To see Jaedong and Fantasy play a game where they are a shadow of their former selves is something that I very much fear.
also Lol @ flash comment.
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Two things.
1) Flash found out marines are OP and got to masters with using marines only.
2) He played what i hard (high chance of being wrong here) 20-40 games a day. How can you now know what they do after 40 games? Seems a bit stupid to me. Flash is not dumb robot to not understand the game fast.
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On April 20 2012 23:54 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 23:50 Aunvilgod wrote:
Could maybe someone explain to me WHY BW is more interesting/challenging than SCII. As far as I know the differences are not that big. Just because the players are not very good the game is not necessarily bad.
Note that I think the rumor about lower skillcap of SCII is crap. Players still die to bad multitasking... I think it's mostly people that have some sort of bitterness toward sc2, a lack of experience with sc2, or are just uninformed. The games are different, so yeah, not everyone is going to like both, but they require very similar skill sets and are a lot more similar than angry elitists make them out to be.
You know I finally understand why my aunt use to talk about the good old days thing's being cheaper, people are much more friendlier and etc . Basically the same thing is happening here when you fail to see what's has happen in society previously and the benefits that exist back than . The Ignorant and Naive will say that these existing benefits only started existing in this current age .
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On April 20 2012 23:50 Aunvilgod wrote:
Could maybe someone explain to me WHY BW is more interesting/challenging than SCII. As far as I know the differences are not that big. Just because the players are not very good the game is not necessarily bad.
Note that I think the rumor about lower skillcap of SCII is crap. Players still die to bad multitasking...
lol, go try play macro games in D rank (which is the initial rank)
also lol at the sc2 players that talk about bw without knowing anything, you think skillcap is sc2 is crap? you probably have never played bw
also i agree with the white_horse post, this post is an example of that
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On April 20 2012 23:55 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 23:48 Noxblood wrote:On April 20 2012 23:35 Ouga wrote:
Lol @ anyone being surprised that flash got to MASTERS. I'm actually surprised if it takes more than a week or two for any current top bw'ers to be at EU(/NA) gm level. They're just that much better, and game isn't different enough for them to need more time. Ofc beating current sc2 korean pros will take more time since then it'll be more about smaller decisions that need to be learned by massing more games. Ya i have to agree with this, I think people are hyping this a little to much. Yes flash will be good, one of the best inn sc2. but getting inn to masters as one of the best RTS players inn the world through history it should not come as a surprise he will be among the 2% of the players just by pure mechanical skills. getting among the 0,1% will take longer. Just look at Forgg(Fin) he was a good BW pro. He was so confident he said he would win Code S his first season in code S, we are now at the second season of his at gsl and he has again dropped down to code A, and is 1 lose from falling inn to code B. And he never advanced through the first round even. BW pros are not gods, they will be some of the best players no doubt, but lets not go overboard with hype. Source or I ain't buying it I recall reading his first interview when he won a single game he didn't say he is confident to win the code S in the first try he stated that he was following MVP play style really closely . Don't twist the story to give an inaccurate facts okay ?
Here is your source
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290978
And here is a small quote from the article
"If I get my game back, I think I’ll be able to even win the first season of 2012"
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On April 21 2012 00:03 Noxblood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 23:55 Sawamura wrote:On April 20 2012 23:48 Noxblood wrote:On April 20 2012 23:35 Ouga wrote:
Lol @ anyone being surprised that flash got to MASTERS. I'm actually surprised if it takes more than a week or two for any current top bw'ers to be at EU(/NA) gm level. They're just that much better, and game isn't different enough for them to need more time. Ofc beating current sc2 korean pros will take more time since then it'll be more about smaller decisions that need to be learned by massing more games. Ya i have to agree with this, I think people are hyping this a little to much. Yes flash will be good, one of the best inn sc2. but getting inn to masters as one of the best RTS players inn the world through history it should not come as a surprise he will be among the 2% of the players just by pure mechanical skills. getting among the 0,1% will take longer. Just look at Forgg(Fin) he was a good BW pro. He was so confident he said he would win Code S his first season in code S, we are now at the second season of his at gsl and he has again dropped down to code A, and is 1 lose from falling inn to code B. And he never advanced through the first round even. BW pros are not gods, they will be some of the best players no doubt, but lets not go overboard with hype. Source or I ain't buying it I recall reading his first interview when he won a single game he didn't say he is confident to win the code S in the first try he stated that he was following MVP play style really closely . Don't twist the story to give an inaccurate facts okay ? Here is your source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290978And here is a small quote from the article "If I get my game back, I think I’ll be able to even win the first season of 2012"
So you are criticising Forgg for stating out his desire that if he gets "His game back " ? I mean it's like me saying that If i am able to get back my golf swing in this amateur tournament I have a great chance of winning my first tournament . Sigh......
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On April 20 2012 22:16 Lucumo wrote:
Ugh, they shouldn't take note of foreign events...not that I'm gonna watch anyway. So I guess I shouldn't care.
I'm not sure if you are a troll or not.
But in the case of you not being one: I think you have a serious attitude problem.
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Well wait and see, maby Jeadong, Flash, Fantasy, Bisu and Kespa is what it takes to open Blizzards eyes and make sc2 what it was suppose to be!
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United States4796 Posts
Oh hey Tomken got a reply!
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Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
Okay, I'll give you a chance, sc2. IF you cant amuse me or entertain me with the personalities I used to cheer for with all my heart then I'm gone.
Won't stop playing BW till ICCup dies til I'¨m the last man standing though
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It is going to be bad without my Friday and Saturday night Brood War to watch. There are a few big clan leagues that are streamed on daum, but it will not be the same. 
I just hope that when the rest of the expansions are released they fix sc2 like bw fixed sc1(that is the only hope).
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When this happens I check out. I've already played SC2 and realized that the game is extremely lacking. I don't need to be reminded of that again.
Kespa has betrayed us. They have shown that they didn't mean anything they said during the IP rights dispute and don't actually care about what the fans think.
I hope Blizzard's Soviet style display at Blizzcon didn't play a role in this decision. It would be pathetic if cramming a bunch of WoW fans into a room where a SC2 tournament was going on could deceive them about SC2's actual popularity as a game.
I don't think televised SC2 will continue for long given its domestic unpopularity. Koreans would have to adopt it in droves, which is highly unlikely given the quality of the game. The same amount of foreigners would also have to watch, but this also unlikely since foreigners jump to the next big thing. Starcraft 2 is two years old, and far away from being the next big thing. Many foreigners are also mainly Blizzard fanboys, and will probably switch to Diablo 3 and MOP on release and abandon SC2 altogether.
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On April 20 2012 23:54 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 23:50 Aunvilgod wrote:
Could maybe someone explain to me WHY BW is more interesting/challenging than SCII. As far as I know the differences are not that big. Just because the players are not very good the game is not necessarily bad.
Note that I think the rumor about lower skillcap of SCII is crap. Players still die to bad multitasking... I think it's mostly people that have some sort of bitterness toward sc2, a lack of experience with sc2, or are just uninformed. The games are different, so yeah, not everyone is going to like both, but they require very similar skill sets and are a lot more similar than angry elitists make them out to be.
Nope, BW is just better to watch, as both more interesting to watch then chess or poker. There is a reason why BW have casual fans (who don't play videogames), and sc2 fans are all playing or have played sc2.
For me is:
- graphical style is better (mature, no stupid toyish buildings)
- units not clumping in one ball (that just look better)
- better balance, and not only race balance, but also balance of opportunities and abilities (no stupid crap like "1 vortex with archons and zerg is dead, but without it protoss is dead")
- as a result of previous one - game have more diversity and more dynamic.
- level of play. No one in sc2 can multitask nearly as good as Bisu.
- no tournaments overloading. 1 OSL, 1 MSL, 1 Proleague. Every game counts.
- and the History, that lead to Stories and Drama, and sometimes Comedy. Just compare your usual preview\recap from gstl and preview\recap from proleague.
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United States23455 Posts
It sounds like the coaches were having a jovial time talking about SC2 and the KT coach, to one up his competitors, added that Flash got into masters during the time he was in the hospital without knowing any of the units to poke fun at the other teams. I wouldn't be surprised if he got to masters by going straight into the game and learning on the go, but after the first ten or so games, I'm sure he knew most of the basics.
Honestly, I write for SC2 and got into the scene by watching Brood War for the last four years, and I wish both could stand together (separately, mind you, Proleague) while also seeing what the top level talents like Flash, Bisu, etc. could do with SC2. If the players and coaches are genuinely enjoying it and KESPA allows them to go to foreign tournaments, it could be really great for the players. I remember how players used to always talk in interviews on how they wanted to get into WCG so that they could travel outside the country and see the world. With the widespread popularity of SC2 in America, Sweden, and across the globe, it would open a lot of opportunities for a lot of players who would never have had a chance to travel outside Korea in Brood War.
Really interested in seeing a translation of the article.
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On April 20 2012 23:48 Noxblood wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 23:35 Ouga wrote:
Lol @ anyone being surprised that flash got to MASTERS. I'm actually surprised if it takes more than a week or two for any current top bw'ers to be at EU(/NA) gm level. They're just that much better, and game isn't different enough for them to need more time. Ofc beating current sc2 korean pros will take more time since then it'll be more about smaller decisions that need to be learned by massing more games. Ya i have to agree with this, I think people are hyping this a little to much. Yes flash will be good, one of the best inn sc2. but getting inn to masters as one of the best RTS players inn the world through history it should not come as a surprise he will be among the 2% of the players just by pure mechanical skills. getting among the 0,1% will take longer. Just look at Forgg(Fin) he was a good BW pro. He was so confident he said he would win Code S his first season in code S, we are now at the second season of his at gsl and he has again dropped down to code A, and is 1 lose from falling inn to code B. And he never advanced through the first round even. BW pros are not gods, they will be some of the best players no doubt, but lets not go overboard with hype.
You do realize that every Code S champion has been ex BW progamers right? And if BW pros wouldn't be "gods" we would see more WC3/other RTS/no RTS experienced players in the top scene, but we don't because a person that has been a BW progamer is way superior in RTS than any other person, and that is true. Just like how a really skilled CS 1.6 player is superior in FPS than someone that has no CS 1.6 experience.
And it's not only the hype because these current BW progamers have sick skill and RTS minds, it's the whole atmosphere they will bring with them if a full switch would take place. They are backed up with some really big sponsors and corporations so they all have way better living conditions than any current sc2 team. They have better salaries, they have way superior coaches, and they have superior practice condition because of all this.
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I feel like if you're really passionate about BW and it's pros, you wouldn't abandon them so easily and say you're just not gonna watch them anymore. BW went through a long line of changes before it was a competitive masterpiece. Same thing will happen to SC2. It has to happen. This influx of new players will make an effect and the game will be changed accordingly. That's just the way it works.
A lot of people fear the game is too dumbed down at the moment? SC2 used to be a complete joke like a year ago. So much has been improved and it's going to continue. And Blizzard is even more active with this game than they were with BW, so we can expect a faster rate of changes. Instead of giving up on your players, start addressing your concerns with SC2 so that it can be changed and before you know it, SC2 will evolve rapidly into a solid, less pale, competitive esports phenomenon. This should happen by itself if the BW player hype is true anyway.
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On April 21 2012 00:06 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:03 Noxblood wrote:On April 20 2012 23:55 Sawamura wrote:On April 20 2012 23:48 Noxblood wrote:On April 20 2012 23:35 Ouga wrote:
Lol @ anyone being surprised that flash got to MASTERS. I'm actually surprised if it takes more than a week or two for any current top bw'ers to be at EU(/NA) gm level. They're just that much better, and game isn't different enough for them to need more time. Ofc beating current sc2 korean pros will take more time since then it'll be more about smaller decisions that need to be learned by massing more games. Ya i have to agree with this, I think people are hyping this a little to much. Yes flash will be good, one of the best inn sc2. but getting inn to masters as one of the best RTS players inn the world through history it should not come as a surprise he will be among the 2% of the players just by pure mechanical skills. getting among the 0,1% will take longer. Just look at Forgg(Fin) he was a good BW pro. He was so confident he said he would win Code S his first season in code S, we are now at the second season of his at gsl and he has again dropped down to code A, and is 1 lose from falling inn to code B. And he never advanced through the first round even. BW pros are not gods, they will be some of the best players no doubt, but lets not go overboard with hype. Source or I ain't buying it I recall reading his first interview when he won a single game he didn't say he is confident to win the code S in the first try he stated that he was following MVP play style really closely . Don't twist the story to give an inaccurate facts okay ? Here is your source http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=290978And here is a small quote from the article "If I get my game back, I think I’ll be able to even win the first season of 2012" So you are criticising Forgg for stating out his desire that if he gets "His game back " ? I mean it's like me saying that If i am able to get back my golf swing in this amateur tournament I have a great chance of winning my first tournament . Sigh......
ForGG has been OK in SC2, but it doesn't even count because he was practicing for months privately before officially switching. Hyun is a better example of a BW pro trying to waltz into SC2. 1-11 in the Korean scene, and a 106-79 international record that sounds pretty good until you realize he's mostly playing in random weekly European tournaments against guys like Satiini and LiveZerg and Tarrantius.
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United States8293 Posts
On April 21 2012 00:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
I seriously don't understand this irrational hatred towards SC2.
You guys all argue about how BW is superior because of higher skill cap, easier to see what's going on, greater difficulty and yet you can watch LoL and Dota2?
Wow...
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On April 21 2012 00:16 c0ldfusion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 00:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Atleast I'll still be at TL for LoL and Dota2
I seriously don't understand this irrational hatred towards SC2. You guys all argue about how BW is superior because of higher skill cap, easier to see what's going on, greater difficulty and yet you can watch LoL and Dota2? Wow...
LoL and Dota2 have much more hype and e-sports goodness in it man . For e-sports !
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How do will BW players and current SC2 players compete eachanother? Kespa closed the doors for a year so the current sc2 scene cant join their osl, etc.
Will they enter gsl, or not even meet in korea but an foreigner events, if they come?
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EPT
