On April 25 2012 18:51 BobTheBuilder1377 wrote: I'm honestly angry of what's becoming of the BW pro scene and this is more like a middle finger to the fans who have been following these teams since forever. I hope Pro-League and OSL keep going on for another five years at least....(hoping)
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Having played both games a fair bit, I can tell you that immortal drops are nothing close to reaver harass. First of all immortals aren't AOE units, secondly warp prisms aren't nearly as essential as shuttles are in any P match-up. Plus you don't load and unload between shots for immortals like you do with reaver/shuttle. Nor do you ever see the type of loading/unloading + pulling shuttle back micro with immortal/warp prism.
There was a bit of that today in the GSL with an Immortal against Roaches, keeping the Immortal alive way longer than it should of been, it was pretty epic. But honestly, people are still pretty bad at SC2 in the micro department, yes you have the top guys that are pretty decent but even they don't use some strategies that would just be great to see.. There is an absolute tone of potential in the micro in SC2 that people haven't been using. There are a tone of strategies for Zerg that people don't use, such as drop play from overlords, using baneling drops against a group of fungalled marines while pulling off an amazing flank, magic boxing thors and splitting banelings against tanks, while counter dropping the terrans mineral line with upgraded banelings. The nydus is still a pretty unused utility that players haven't utilised yet. (using Zerg as an example as I play Zerg). I'm pretty confident the BW guys will come in, see the game and improve the micro and strategies a lot after practicing like they do already with BW.
Guys, people have been using Reaver drops since 2001, if immortal drops were that good, we would be seeing them a lot more. Now we have uber progamers testing these things out. Yet we are seeing both of them less (ferrying a bunch of reavers in PvZ used to be quite common), Kiwikaki (iirc) was the king of immortal drops. The whole wait till the game evolves doesn't stand, the kind of evolutions we will see will not be micro ones, they will be strategy and build orders, just like BW. Maybe every few years we might see a form of muta micro appear, before blizzard patches it.
*flashback of reaver instafiring from shuttle unload* As a toss player those were good times.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Having played both games a fair bit, I can tell you that immortal drops are nothing close to reaver harass. First of all immortals aren't AOE units, secondly warp prisms aren't nearly as essential as shuttles are in any P match-up. Plus you don't load and unload between shots for immortals like you do with reaver/shuttle. Nor do you see the type of loading/unloading + pulling shuttle back micro with immortal/warp prism in battles.
Well you should see this video, it shows some amazing micro, along with well i dont think some of the clips are the best micro every but...
Ok, I don't mean this in an insulting manner but if you think that is anything (the IMMORTAL drop at 18) spectacular whatsoever you obviously haven't followed Broodwar and my opinion of SC2 is even lower. The rest wasn't bad , though the only one where I actually was impressed was the marine splitting.. I'll go see if I can find something on youtube for you that is actually amazing micro...alright, this vid. It isn't exactly showcasing micro and is more of "omg Bisu is amazing", but it is far more exciting use of shuttle play.
Here is a vid that is actual amazing micro. Please remember that mines do not take priority and must be individually targeted before they plant and are cloaked or attack you and you die. You'll notice Bisu only uses the exact amount of dragoons to target the mines and has the rest target the enemy army...all before the dragoon attack cooldown cycles.
Get back to me in 10 years when sc2 pro gamers have broken the game down so much that they can do these kinds of things too.
I believe BW is a better game than sc2 right now. It's more competetive and mroe fun. But to compare micro 12 years into the BW pro scene to 1 year into the sc2 pro scene is ridiculous. Lets see you pull out some 2002 micro highlights from BW and we can then have a real discussion.
"Some say sending Korean players to overseas SC2 market is globalization and expansion. I see it as a reduction of our domestic eSports scene. Yes, earning foreign currencies overseas is good for players, but for so many years we’ve declared ourselves the leading eSports country, and it sounds like we’ve given up on being the leader now. If we had a strong infrastructure here and sold only the contents overseas, the players wouldn’t need to go far away to have a sustainable career."
I have to admit that as an SC2 fan this has me incredibly concerned that my fears about the SC1 scene moving over to SC2 are well founded.
It's an incredibly positive thing for SC2 globally that Koreans will come out and play at foreign tournaments, and vice versa. Without the best players in the world attending, foreign interest levels would dwindle I am sure, and the last thing I would want to see is Proleague insularity harming the vibrant foreign scene.
Honestly, after reading that I would much rather they not switch at all. The GSL has the right approach for my money - the last thing we need is anything damaging the scene in such a way.
On April 26 2012 03:35 c0ldfusion wrote: Is there more news on this? Evey time this thread gets bumped I get trolled thinking that there's new development =(.
On April 26 2012 03:35 c0ldfusion wrote: Is there more news on this? Evey time this thread gets bumped I get trolled thinking that there's new development =(.
Nah, it turned into a BW vs SC2 thread again
Hasn't looked too bad to me compared to what usually happens.
On April 23 2012 23:25 Crownlol wrote: Excited to see this level of open-mindedness.
The fact is, the split from SSBM and SSBB ruined the smash community, and Source really hurt CS.
The quicker pros join the game that more people want to watch (thus monetizing it), the better.
I know you've been playing BW for 12 years, but the more open-minded the BW community is about switching to the newer, more popular game, the better.
Open-minded? Almost all BW players have tried SC2 at some point. There's certain things in BW that just made alot of sense imo. Designers probably never envisioned BW as a top-level competitive game, but it turned out that way. To completely ignore some of the things that made BW great makes SC2 really really hard for a lot of BW fans to accept. I mean yes, micro is there, macro is there. But you don't see defilers coming out at the last second to cast swarm to deny an area, nor do you see reaver harassment, or any sorts of equivalent. I'm really tired of this argument too. I'd just wish SC2 would change >.>
I would regard mmortal speed prism drops pretty much filling that role, not being entirely equivalent but filling some kind of similiar role. The new viper will be filling a close enough role of what the defiler had. Obviously you don't know shit. T_T
Having played both games a fair bit, I can tell you that immortal drops are nothing close to reaver harass. First of all immortals aren't AOE units, secondly warp prisms aren't nearly as essential as shuttles are in any P match-up. Plus you don't load and unload between shots for immortals like you do with reaver/shuttle. Nor do you ever see the type of loading/unloading + pulling shuttle back micro with immortal/warp prism.
There was a bit of that today in the GSL with an Immortal against Roaches, keeping the Immortal alive way longer than it should of been, it was pretty epic. But honestly, people are still pretty bad at SC2 in the micro department, yes you have the top guys that are pretty decent but even they don't use some strategies that would just be great to see.. There is an absolute tone of potential in the micro in SC2 that people haven't been using. There are a tone of strategies for Zerg that people don't use, such as drop play from overlords, using baneling drops against a group of fungalled marines while pulling off an amazing flank, magic boxing thors and splitting banelings against tanks, while counter dropping the terrans mineral line with upgraded banelings. The nydus is still a pretty unused utility that players haven't utilised yet. (using Zerg as an example as I play Zerg). I'm pretty confident the BW guys will come in, see the game and improve the micro and strategies a lot after practicing like they do already with BW.
Guys, people have been using Reaver drops since 2001, if immortal drops were that good, we would be seeing them a lot more. Now we have uber progamers testing these things out. Yet we are seeing both of them less (ferrying a bunch of reavers in PvZ used to be quite common), Kiwikaki (iirc) was the king of immortal drops. The whole wait till the game evolves doesn't stand, the kind of evolutions we will see will not be micro ones, they will be strategy and build orders, just like BW. Maybe every few years we might see a form of muta micro appear, before blizzard patches it.
*flashback of reaver instafiring from shuttle unload* As a toss player those were good times.
Shouldn't that flashback be followed by a scarab hitting a wall, spazzing up and down, then exploding for zero damage.
Possible shoop? If not then that monitor has amazing viewing angles and the room must have amazing lightning since it's clear flash (pun not intended) was not used.
On April 20 2012 22:54 GerBanana wrote: "Flash made it into Masters without knwowing what his units did?! Next season GM without even hotkeying anything or using hotkeys? He is just so godly.
banana
That second meme has already pretty much been proven by SC2 koreans (And some foreigners aswell i think). Just to prove that apm means nothing they've beaten SC2 top master players with only a mouse.
On April 20 2012 22:54 GerBanana wrote: "Flash made it into Masters without knwowing what his units did?! Next season GM without even hotkeying anything or using hotkeys? He is just so godly.
banana
That second meme has already pretty much been proven by SC2 koreans (And some foreigners aswell i think). Just to prove that apm means nothing they've beaten SC2 top master players with only a mouse.
Possible shoop? If not then that monitor has amazing viewing angles and the room must have amazing lightning since it's clear flash (pun not intended) was not used.
Yes it's shopped, obviously they're not playing SC2 by now, they're just trying to fool us with the amount of news in the past weeks. They're actually still sticking with BW. Let's get real here.
I'll be honest with you guys. My introduction to RTS is SC2, and I only learned of BW after. I tried to love BW and found it very good, but I have always been hoping for the time those BW players go to SC2 and see how much further this game can evolve. The rumors about the switch made me nervous at first, but when it was finally confirmed, I really smiled with glee in my heart.
I can't access the site with the full translation for some reason, maybe it's blocked in China. Would anybody be so kind and copy-paste the text to me in a PM?
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8sN7S.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CukIx.jpg)
