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SK Planet Proleague Play-off Schedule Confirmed - Page 7

Forum Index > BW General
158 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 Next All
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
March 10 2012 08:30 GMT
#121
On March 10 2012 12:08 supernovamaniac wrote:
For those who don't know: The team who goes directly for the finals can pick which map becomes 1st set, which will also become the 7th (ACE) set.

So whoever goes to finals directly will have huge advantage.

They should have just let each team veto a map for the ace and randomly pick one of the remaining ones. A lot less biased that way.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2358 Posts
March 10 2012 09:35 GMT
#122
Just a few days.. can't wait.
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
Simplistik
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
2173 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-11 19:25:04
March 11 2012 19:24 GMT
#123
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.
Dear BW Gods, it IS now autumn, so...
Torpedo.Vegas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States1890 Posts
March 12 2012 05:58 GMT
#124
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I don't know. I think the determining factor here is key integration, utilization and timing of their incorportation of the destructible rocks into their builds. Purely hypothetically speaking from an objectively abstract perspective, if KT can take down the alpha and beta DRX's (Destructible Rox) to roughly 33% before 6:32 on any 256x256 map, they can lock down gamma and omega DRX's at their leisure with no loss to their air support or calvary detectments. Of course this means a nearly 28% increase in favorability of a 47% increase in victory for KT over 70% of teams played.

Also, marines need to go left before their go right or they will get bamboozled by effective deployments of counter infantry units by the opposing side.

I hope this has contributed signifcantly to you understanding of this important situation in a positive yet firm way.
bgx
Profile Joined August 2010
Poland6595 Posts
March 12 2012 11:56 GMT
#125
Very pleased about the format. Cant wait.
Stork[gm]
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
March 12 2012 12:08 GMT
#126
On March 12 2012 14:58 Torpedo.Vegas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I don't know. I think the determining factor here is key integration, utilization and timing of their incorportation of the destructible rocks into their builds. Purely hypothetically speaking from an objectively abstract perspective, if KT can take down the alpha and beta DRX's (Destructible Rox) to roughly 33% before 6:32 on any 256x256 map, they can lock down gamma and omega DRX's at their leisure with no loss to their air support or calvary detectments. Of course this means a nearly 28% increase in favorability of a 47% increase in victory for KT over 70% of teams played.

Also, marines need to go left before their go right or they will get bamboozled by effective deployments of counter infantry units by the opposing side.

I hope this has contributed signifcantly to you understanding of this important situation in a positive yet firm way.

lol, Flash already understands this as such human calculations are trivial
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
HopLight
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden999 Posts
March 12 2012 12:13 GMT
#127
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I disagree, KT's main weakness is their 3rd & 4th players not their 5-6th. Essentially we have excellent 1-2, bad 3-4, and pretty good 5-6. Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra, are all fairly bad 3-4 but excellent 5-6.

I also don't think the ace match is that much of an advantage, despite Flash, Neo Chain Reaction for Ace map is almost going to force Stats which makes us weaker.
KenNage
Profile Joined May 2009
Chile885 Posts
March 12 2012 12:48 GMT
#128
Giving crazy-hydra performance this year (8-2 overall and in a 7 game winning streak only losing to Leta and the master PvZer Best xD) KT should be a little more confident having a third reliable player?

Also in the Khan's winners interview vs Stars, they said the same about picking maps,

Q: Which team would you like to make it to the semis?

Stork = We get to choose the 1st and 7th set map, so that's good. What's more important than which team we meet is which players we face, but... Woongjin is always quite strong against us, so it would be nice if KT could make it.


This guy here explained it

It's whoever is higher in the ranking who gets to pick Day 1 and 3 maps for Ace, lower ranking gets Day 2 Ace choice. So SKT gets to pick for their sole Bo7 the Ace map (which is also Map 1 as well) while Khan gets to pick the Ace map for Day 1 and 3 for the team that will win the KT vs CJ/Stars quarterfinals, who will have KT choosing their Day 1/3 maps as well.
shaftofpleasure
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Korea (North)1375 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 12:59:40
March 12 2012 12:56 GMT
#129
I just realized something. The ace match is a really........ REALLY good way to snipe Flash. Lots of preparations can be done and a prepared player can beat Flash.

I don't know why KT is pleased with this. Unless KT coach becomes unpredictable and send an Anti-Sniper.

Down with CJ/KT/T1

Gogog Stars/Khan


On March 12 2012 21:13 HopLight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I disagree, KT's main weakness is their 3rd & 4th players not their 5-6th. Essentially we have excellent 1-2, bad 3-4, and pretty good 5-6. Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra, are all fairly bad 3-4 but excellent 5-6.

I also don't think the ace match is that much of an advantage, despite Flash, Neo Chain Reaction for Ace map is almost going to force Stats which makes us weaker.


I am mostly a Flash Anti-fan but Flash can play in any map as long as he is able to practice with it and come up with good/safe builds. And hope that he doesn't get cocky.
It's either the holes of my nose are getting smaller or my fingers are getting bigger. /// Always Rooting for the Underdog. Hyuk/Sin/Jaehoon/Juni/Hyvva/Hoejja/Canata //// Hiding in thread somewhere where BW is still in it's pure form here on TL.
OminouS
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden1343 Posts
March 12 2012 13:19 GMT
#130
This is going to be so awesome, I can't wait. GO KHAN!
On the 6th day JF made Reavers and on the 7th day JF put his opponent to rest
KT s0ng
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Korea (South)88 Posts
March 12 2012 14:52 GMT
#131
Will be the finals be at Busan? I saw in one of the interviews someone mentioned it but I didn't read that anywhere else.
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 15:01:44
March 12 2012 15:01 GMT
#132
Getting to pick the 7th map is such a joke. Not happy with that rule at all.
jaQi
Profile Joined December 2010
1121 Posts
March 12 2012 16:22 GMT
#133
On March 13 2012 00:01 J1.au wrote:
Getting to pick the 7th map is such a joke. Not happy with that rule at all.


Oh I see this coming, KT loses in set 7 and everyone is blaming the rule

But honestly I don't think this rule puts a huge disadvantage on KT, besides of Flash is crushing anyone on any map (yea I know he lost two games), this new rule helps him to border the choice of opponents, so he can prepare better.

Hopefully KT does not manage to make it to the finals, I do not hate them at all, but I don't want to see a SKT vs KT final again. I was hoping to see SKT vs KT on first play off day, so what. Can't wait to 17th of March.
salito
Profile Joined May 2010
1649 Posts
March 12 2012 16:54 GMT
#134
The ability to pick the ace map is stupid. Both Chain Reaction and Outlier are completely unplayable for TvP. KHAN and SKT1, teams with protoss aces, are obviously going to choose these maps. We'll be seeing anticlimactic PvP mirrors for the ace match instead of a TvP on a more balanced map. With the season on the line, do you really want to watch Stats playing a PvP?

Funny how the Proleague format, the absence of Winners League and the playoff format all need to be made with one certain player in mind. The format is pretty much conspired to ensure KTFlash doesn't win for the third time in a row.
Nature moves in the shortest way possible.
Maur
Profile Joined March 2010
Spain63 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-03-12 17:25:04
March 12 2012 17:24 GMT
#135
On March 13 2012 01:54 salito wrote:
The ability to pick the ace map is stupid. Both Chain Reaction and Outlier are completely unplayable for TvP. KHAN and SKT1, teams with protoss aces, are obviously going to choose these maps. We'll be seeing anticlimactic PvP mirrors for the ace match instead of a TvP on a more balanced map. With the season on the line, do you really want to watch Stats playing a PvP?

Funny how the Proleague format, the absence of Winners League and the playoff format all need to be made with one certain player in mind. The format is pretty much conspired to ensure KTFlash doesn't win for the third time in a row.


I doubt that rule is new, sounds like it always has been there. I have no idea thought.
Simplistik
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
2173 Posts
March 12 2012 17:26 GMT
#136
On March 12 2012 21:13 HopLight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I disagree, KT's main weakness is their 3rd & 4th players not their 5-6th. Essentially we have excellent 1-2, bad 3-4, and pretty good 5-6. Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra, are all fairly bad 3-4 but excellent 5-6.

I also don't think the ace match is that much of an advantage, despite Flash, Neo Chain Reaction for Ace map is almost going to force Stats which makes us weaker.


I'll just take the liberty to quote myself here:

On February 04 2012 07:54 Simplistik wrote:
I was thinking about the effect of the format change the other day. There were a lot of predictions that KT would suffer from the lack of Ace Match, but I think those were wrong. Allow me to explain...

Last season KT were basically working like this: Flash and Stats give two wins. Then KT has four shots at getting to the Ace Match using their second string players. Finally Flash, and occasionally Stats, would show up to win the Ace Match. Flash and Stats managed a combined 6 - 3 in Ace Matches, including playoffs. But that's "only" 67%.

This season the Ace Match burden has been lifted. Flash and Stats have to practice one map, which increases their win chance. This season they are a combined 16 - 3 (84%), compared to last season's 61 - 33 (65%), discounting Winners League. That's quite scary. On top of that, once any of the second string players wins, KT wins the entire match. The chance for Flash or Stats to be sniped in the Ace Match has been removed completely.

In conclusion, I think that the removal of the Ace Match format didn't hurt KT much, but the shortening from Bo7 to Bo5 helped KT a lot. If I had to assess KT's chance depending on the format then it would look like this, from great to bad:

1) Bo5 + Ace Match = great for KT; able to win with just Flash and Stats, plus occasional help from others
2) Bo5 - Ace Match = good for KT; Flash and Stats can focus, 3 shots for the others to get one win
3) Bo7 + Ace Match = so - so for KT; 4 shots for the others to get it to Ace Match, then Flash brings home the bacon
4) Bo7 - Ace Match = bad for KT; need 50% win rate from the 2nd line, looks bad based on last season's results
Dear BW Gods, it IS now autumn, so...
dr.who
Profile Joined March 2012
Dominican Republic145 Posts
March 12 2012 17:31 GMT
#137
LEE YOUNG HO VS THE WORLD! the clash of God is imminent. Must be prepared...! Lets get it On!
This is the way
HopLight
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden999 Posts
March 12 2012 17:41 GMT
#138
On March 13 2012 02:26 Simplistik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2012 21:13 HopLight wrote:
On March 12 2012 04:24 Simplistik wrote:
On March 09 2012 15:07 Antoine wrote:
ace match being back is bad news for all non-kt fans

The Bo7 format more than makes up for that. Overall the change is bad for KT.


I disagree, KT's main weakness is their 3rd & 4th players not their 5-6th. Essentially we have excellent 1-2, bad 3-4, and pretty good 5-6. Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra, are all fairly bad 3-4 but excellent 5-6.

I also don't think the ace match is that much of an advantage, despite Flash, Neo Chain Reaction for Ace map is almost going to force Stats which makes us weaker.


I'll just take the liberty to quote myself here:

Show nested quote +
On February 04 2012 07:54 Simplistik wrote:
I was thinking about the effect of the format change the other day. There were a lot of predictions that KT would suffer from the lack of Ace Match, but I think those were wrong. Allow me to explain...

Last season KT were basically working like this: Flash and Stats give two wins. Then KT has four shots at getting to the Ace Match using their second string players. Finally Flash, and occasionally Stats, would show up to win the Ace Match. Flash and Stats managed a combined 6 - 3 in Ace Matches, including playoffs. But that's "only" 67%.

This season the Ace Match burden has been lifted. Flash and Stats have to practice one map, which increases their win chance. This season they are a combined 16 - 3 (84%), compared to last season's 61 - 33 (65%), discounting Winners League. That's quite scary. On top of that, once any of the second string players wins, KT wins the entire match. The chance for Flash or Stats to be sniped in the Ace Match has been removed completely.

In conclusion, I think that the removal of the Ace Match format didn't hurt KT much, but the shortening from Bo7 to Bo5 helped KT a lot. If I had to assess KT's chance depending on the format then it would look like this, from great to bad:

1) Bo5 + Ace Match = great for KT; able to win with just Flash and Stats, plus occasional help from others
2) Bo5 - Ace Match = good for KT; Flash and Stats can focus, 3 shots for the others to get one win
3) Bo7 + Ace Match = so - so for KT; 4 shots for the others to get it to Ace Match, then Flash brings home the bacon
4) Bo7 - Ace Match = bad for KT; need 50% win rate from the 2nd line, looks bad based on last season's results


So essentially you quote yourself while not actually meeting the main point I made?

Ok, let me break it down:

KT vs SKT1

KT top players are better than SKT1 (Flash Stats vs Fantasy Bisu)
KT Mid players are all worse than SKT1 mid players (Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra vs Best/By.Sun)
However when it comes to 5-6th set KT are still fielding mid players against the fairly terrible last 2 for SKT1: (Mind, Action, Wooki, Crazy Hydra vs Hyuk, n.die_soo, s2)

What I'm saying is the actual Ace match is iffy because the other teams can snipe Flash with BOTH map, player, and build, but I think our additional 6th player is on par with any 6th player out there (with the possible exception of CJ)
Naoned
Profile Joined April 2011
France19 Posts
March 12 2012 18:15 GMT
#139
Does anybody know the ticket price for a final and where we can buy one ?
supernovamaniac
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States3048 Posts
March 12 2012 18:51 GMT
#140
On March 13 2012 03:15 Naoned wrote:
Does anybody know the ticket price for a final and where we can buy one ?

No information has been posted afaik. Not even the venue for the finals.
ppp
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