EPTPretty cool experiment, maybe if only to see how SC2 maps would work in BW (like we saw lots of BW maps in sc2)
SC2 to BW map conversions pack - Page 4
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DYEAlabaster
Canada1009 Posts
Pretty cool experiment, maybe if only to see how SC2 maps would work in BW (like we saw lots of BW maps in sc2) | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 23 2012 14:29 DYEAlabaster wrote: All the maps except metal look pretty cool. I dunno what it is about metal, it just looks... off. Pretty cool experiment, maybe if only to see how SC2 maps would work in BW (like we saw lots of BW maps in sc2) Tbh, I'm not very proud of my Metalopolis. Maybe that is a likely candidate to be redone at some point eventually maybe perhaps possibly. The way I made most of the maps is that I got an image off of Liquipedia, then superimposed it into a BW map using SC Picture Mapper, then tried to make an actual BW map by tracing over the converted image. However, since the image is completely top-down while the BW mapmaker is isometric, there was a ton of distortion after the "tracing" phase, which is probably why some of the maps look a bit off or asymmetric. However, I completely eyeballed the creation of Lost/Shattered Temple, which I made before I started to use the method that I just described. | ||
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Bippzy
United States1466 Posts
On January 22 2012 13:30 eviltomahawk wrote: fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu You're right. I'll make emergency edits haha. edit: edits done, I think, hopefully, possibly. I literally lost it. Comedic gold. I'm undecided if this is a good idea. Maybe if one of the transferred maps was actually balanced, which I know nothing about. | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
-You should use the standard gas placement for the mains (gas either directly on top or to the left of the main building; proven to be most efficient). -BW maps tend not to have much airspace, you should try to push the bases/outer parts of the map out as far as possible. -If you're using scmdraft2 you could try using the symmetry tools to make stuff a bit more even. -At the "gold bases" maybe you could stack chunks of 2 minerals to save space and make them look a bit more like the sc2 maps. On a related note, how did you add the neutral destructible buildings? I've tried a couple ways in scmdraft2 but the buildings never show up in game for me... Edit: Saw another pretty big problem. The middle-ground ridges between the vertical naturals and between the naturals and the top and bottom bases on Shakuras Plateau appear to be pathable. I know this is the tileset's fault and there isn't much that can be done about it besides blocking the path with minerals or something stupid, but it's still a major problem. I'd recommend just modifying the map so that the main is on the same cliff level as the natural (fortunately not a balance problem in BW lol) and raising everything one cliff level to avoid using that annoying lowest cliff level. | ||
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On January 23 2012 08:39 ArvickHero wrote: cmon, that's just ignorant. Almost all standard mapping concepts used in SC2 come from BW pro-maps, which is the fruit of almost a decade of map-making and testing. Just because most standard maps don't feature destructible rocks all over the place doesn't mean it's not creative. who said anything about rocks = creativity? (and considering how a lot of BW maps have paths that open up when you destroy blocking structures-- I really don't see your point) | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On January 23 2012 17:23 -NegativeZero- wrote: Overall these are pretty good, even though the aesthetics could use some work. Some things you might want to think about: -You should use the standard gas placement for the mains (gas either directly on top or to the left of the main building; proven to be most efficient). -BW maps tend not to have much airspace, you should try to push the bases/outer parts of the map out as far as possible. -If you're using scmdraft2 you could try using the symmetry tools to make stuff a bit more even. -At the "gold bases" maybe you could stack chunks of 2 minerals to save space and make them look a bit more like the sc2 maps. On a related note, how did you add the neutral destructible buildings? I've tried a couple ways in scmdraft2 but the buildings never show up in game for me... Edit: Saw another pretty big problem. The middle-ground ridges between the vertical naturals and between the naturals and the top and bottom bases on Shakuras Plateau appear to be pathable. I know this is the tileset's fault and there isn't much that can be done about it besides blocking the path with minerals or something stupid, but it's still a major problem. I'd recommend just modifying the map so that the main is on the same cliff level as the natural (fortunately not a balance problem in BW lol) and raising everything one cliff level to avoid using that annoying lowest cliff level. Ah, ok. These are great suggestions, and I will definitely keep them in mind the next time I go back into mapmaking. Tbh, I'm not proud of my Shakuras. I think it is definitely one of my weaker maps, if not the worst. The double cliffs are especially troublesome, which is why I haven't done Antiga yet. I probably will end up remaking the entire map at a later time. As far as neutral buildings go, you have to use the Unit Sprites under the Sprites category rather than use the normal Units category. At least that is how I got my neutral buildings to work. As far as airspace goes, I tried copying SC2 maps as much as possible, including the massive amount of airspace that they have. I guess less airspace would be better balanced, but I was aiming more for a direct copy rather than balance. | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On January 24 2012 02:45 Quotidian wrote: who said anything about rocks = creativity? (and considering how a lot of BW maps have paths that open up when you destroy blocking structures-- I really don't see your point) The rock thing was a little joke, I guess I should've made it more obvious  but my point (not about the rocks) still stands | ||
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
-Scrap Yard no high ground mineral nat? Isn't there supposed to be minerals up there or were they removed at some point? I don't follow SCII so I wouldn't know but I remember minerals being there... -Look at Kulass Ravine@ broodwarmaps.net for an example of making UMS watchtowers and high yield minerals. Link to Kulass: http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=4037 | ||
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rugrat
United States15 Posts
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On January 23 2012 08:57 Ribbon wrote: Back when they were called ICCUP, ESV did a lot of SC2 ports of BW maps. The SC2 version of Match Point got a day[9] daily analyzing why BW maps and BW-style maps were more interesting that the SC2 maps of the time. There aren't really any good "SC2" maps, yet. There are only BW maps that have been tweaked for SC2. We stopped doing that because really, it's better just to make an entirely new map than to try and fit an old map into SC2. The two games share a lot of mapping concepts but you can't just take one and put it in the other expecting it to work out. A problem with bringing SC2 maps into SC1 is that they're just a lot bigger. Starcraft 1 max competitive mapsize has always been 128x128. In SC2, it reaches upwards of 160x160 or so. There's also the scaling issue in Starcraft 1 where the Y length is larger than the X length so it's even harder to port SC2 maps. You can compensate somewhat, but it's really difficult overall to get (good) SC2 maps to SC1. | ||
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BrosephBrostar
United States445 Posts
On January 24 2012 17:18 neobowman wrote: We stopped doing that because really, it's better just to make an entirely new map than to try and fit an old map into SC2. The two games share a lot of mapping concepts but you can't just take one and put it in the other expecting it to work out. A problem with bringing SC2 maps into SC1 is that they're just a lot bigger. Starcraft 1 max competitive mapsize has always been 128x128. In SC2, it reaches upwards of 160x160 or so. There's also the scaling issue in Starcraft 1 where the Y length is larger than the X length so it's even harder to port SC2 maps. You can compensate somewhat, but it's really difficult overall to get (good) SC2 maps to SC1. I always thought it was weird that SC2 maps feel so tiny even though their dimensions are often a lot bigger. Is it just an illusion or did they change the way distance is mapped? | ||
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Hyaena
Croatia17 Posts
On January 24 2012 19:04 BrosephBrostar wrote: I always thought it was weird that SC2 maps feel so tiny even though their dimensions are often a lot bigger. Is it just an illusion or did they change the way distance is mapped? I think it has something to do with how big portion of the map you see on screen. Even with maps of same size, SC2 one will feel smaller because your view is not as zoomed as in BW ... Haven't played BW for very long time, so I can't confirm it, but that's my impression from watching BW - zoomed in view contributes in map size feel. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On January 22 2012 21:33 BrosephBrostar wrote: When you compare the SC2 maps to current BW ones it really makes you wonder what happened to the SC2 mapmakers' creativity. It's like they all caught some kind of disease from Blizzard. half of the sc2 maps he converted ARE blizzard maps. which is part of that problem. but yeah we currently have mediocre map pools, but instead of having it lead to some STUPID abuse like truly bad maps led to in brood war, we just get mediocre games on bad maps. EDIT: but it's really interesting to port into BW. i think more map makers should port their maps into brood war, edit it to make it a better BW map, and then report back to sc2 and see what comes of it. | ||
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tetrismaan
Denmark302 Posts
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3FFA
United States3931 Posts
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darkmighty
Brazil48 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:16 3FFA wrote: Also, as of my earlier post on this page, in Kulass Ravine@ Broodwarmaps.net there is an example of how to make sight blockers in SCBW. I'm actually kind of surprised there hasn't been people trying out sight blockers in BW. Could become quite interesting. I think it's because of the issues cited here (sight blocker session): http://www.panschk.de/mappage/newsscript/viewarticle.php?newsid=31 But this guide apparently shows how to work around the issues. | ||
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a176
Canada6688 Posts
On January 24 2012 19:41 Hyaena wrote: I think it has something to do with how big portion of the map you see on screen. Even with maps of same size, SC2 one will feel smaller because your view is not as zoomed as in BW ... Haven't played BW for very long time, so I can't confirm it, but that's my impression from watching BW - zoomed in view contributes in map size feel. you cant technically compare sc2 map sizes to bw map sizes but in general bw maps can be considered larger. mostly because of deathball syndrome really. when you watch bw, units are spaced much further apart, and also, they are running and moving around fucking everywhere on the map at any given time so you need the space. in sc2 you'll often hear complaints about too much open space and other stuff. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
On January 25 2012 05:59 a176 wrote: you cant technically compare sc2 map sizes to bw map sizes but in general bw maps can be considered larger. mostly because of deathball syndrome really. when you watch bw, units are spaced much further apart, and also, they are running and moving around fucking everywhere on the map at any given time so you need the space. in sc2 you'll often hear complaints about too much open space and other stuff. Every map has 15-45% of the map unpathable by ground units in SC2...doesn't even use the entire map borders... | ||
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neobowman
Canada3324 Posts
On January 25 2012 06:09 nalgene wrote: Every map has 15-45% of the map unpathable by ground units in SC2...doesn't even use the entire map borders... Even accounting for this, it's still a bit too big. You could fit it in, but it probably wouldn't fit WELL. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5232 Posts
I'd love to see a SC2 fighting spirit, benzene or chain reaction.. even python would be cool imo. | ||
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