EPTPower Rank Discussion Thread - Page 11
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Round 2 ends on February 11th, so it's a bit more debatable whether or not to do a Round 2 or a January results. But at least until the OSL starts, it's probably better to do it by rounds so we have enough games. More glhf to Flamewheel on his decisions.  | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
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VGhost
United States3618 Posts
If the rank were done today: Flash takes the top spot. Tonight if Flash wins, he'll be 6-0, better than anybody else so far, and with a residual #2, there is not really room for debate. With one loss (to EffOrt) I thought Jangbi deserved to keep #1; with a second loss to Piano. On the other hand, if Flash loses, then there are arguments to be made for a few people to take the spot. Jangbi could be #1 if he beats Flash head to head. 5-2 and 5-1 are not that different; the combination of a head to head win with Jangbi's residual #1 spot would let Jangbi retain the lead. However, BaBy, Stats, Stork, and fantasy have all looked very strong. Each of them has problems, though. Stork and BaBy have the best resume based on opponents and best (non-Flash) record respectively. But neither was anywhere near the top at the end of the last season; even with the break it would be a huge jump to put either one immediately as #1. Stork would have to beat Flash or Stats to justify it; BaBy would have to dominate Bogus, Last, Shuttle, or Calm in order to make an argument, and have Flash (at least) lose, as his opponent list is weak otherwise. fantasy and Stats were both on the rank last time, so they have that momentum for what it is worth. fantasy has looked good, but he has an opponent list that looks unconvincing. Movie and Reality are quite good, especially Movie, but that loss to Last that looks worse than it is since Last is basically sKyHigh but even worse at the non-TvT matchups (although fantasy did also get schooled in that game, so maybe it isn't worse than it looks). Stats has a solid opponent list, and the only drawback is that he's the only Protoss who's managed to lose to Sea this season. Not that losing to Sea is in any way a bad loss, I'm just saying. Even with their residual rankings, I feel like either one of these guys would need truly horrific play from the four others discussed so far to be a reasonable number one. If I made the rank now, it would be 1. Flash 2. Stork 3. Jangbi 4. BaBy 5. Stats 6. fantasy but 2-6 are basically interchangeable. My order of ranking them is basically by bias, though if I had to justify it, I would say: Stork – best opponents; Jangbi – good play and #1 coming in; BaBy – undefeated so far; Stats – only this low because of the other three; fantasy – bad loss to Last and two weird wins (vs. ZerO and vs. Movie). 7-10 should be, I think, Jaedong, Hydra, EffOrt, and Neo.G_Soulkey, in some order. I don't really care what order. The only significant challengers to these four are Leta and Bisu, who in my opinion managed to lose their way off the rank. None of their losses by themselves were bad (the worst loss of their combined five was Bisu losing to free), but this is the area of At Some Point Results Matter. CNBC for both I think, along with Last just for his TvT, and maybe ZerO. One note on ZerO & Neo.G_Soulkey: both lost badly to Terrans I think they should beat (or at least could beat: admittedly ZerO 5:4 fantasy in other games; Soulkey 1:1 firebathero ditto) on Ground Zero. To my eyes, both losses were almost entirely because of an incredibly bad build – after ZerO's loss I was practically in shock when Soulkey pulled it out again last night. Obviously part of Starcraft is not using bad builds, but these particular losses I'm willing to consider more lightly because of build problems. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
[Edit: okay, I'll take that back. Maybe his ZvZ still has a bit to prove, but who could you confidently pick over him in ZvZ right now? Hydra? Maybe. That's about it.] Flash has to be first. Stork is a good pick for second due to the value of his kill list. Jangbi I'm inclined to boot further down the list because he's not playing as well as he did last season. That could change in his last game, but right now I'm inclined to have 3-5 as JD, Fanta and Baby in some order. Stats and Jangbi follow. Then Hydra is next. After that, I may be inclined to say Bisu then Soulkey. This actually drops Effort to CBNC. Don't get me wrong, I like Effort. I liked him before he became popular, even. But Effort's current play is not at the same level it used to be. There's an element of sloppiness there that tells me he's not in 100% form and that he's had a bit of luck with his wins. Zero was going to be on my CBNC and possibly on my ranking with a strong win last night. But ouch. God was he raped. He looked pretty pathetic actually. Don't get me wrong, there were some nice moments with his control and that evo chamber block was absolutely brilliant, but that was not a game that an S-class or even an A-class ZvPer should have lost. Kal was not using his corsairs very effectively (hi, let's just sit there for the scourges), Zero's OL were badly out of place to deal with that dt drop, he didn't handle the early split attack as well as he should have, and I have no idea why he thought it was a great idea to fool around with trying to snipe that archon with his mutas (and taking 4 hits to his muta stack in the process). Kal had some good moments, but a good ZvPer should not lose like that. Movie I was tempted to CBNC. Still tempted. Light I'm actually tempted to CBNC. His record is just horrible, but look who he has played. That's why his ELO is so close to Soulkey when I'm pretty sure SK started the season ahead. Last is not on my CBNC. He's developing into a TvT sniper, but he hasn't shown anything else and I hate cluttering CBNC. Piano deserves a CBNC. He's played a huuuuuuge role in keeping Ace in the picture. Leta maybe. He looks pretty sharp. | ||
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VGhost
United States3618 Posts
Then for Jaedong, other than the loss to Snow (which was, yes, smart timing and closer than it looked), he hasn't played anybody really good. He outclassed Mind; he beat RorO; good – he should. M18M, though, is just terrible at PvZ (35%); that makes his best win free, who is (sadly) just barely hanging on to even A-class status right now. Compared to other top players' games so far, that's simply not cutting it. I don't doubt Jaedong as still one of the top players in the world overall, but he's had a decidedly unimpressive round so far. A solid win over any of STX's A-class (Bogus, Calm, Shuttle) tonight would do a lot to convince me he actually belongs closer to the top than the bottom of the PR. A loss, even a ZvZ loss, and I'm not sure what I think. I also don't like Bisu on the PR at all right now – yeah, he's looked good overall, but he simply has too many losses. That could just be my biases though. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
If I watch the Best game, maybe it will change my mind on JD. As for "good, he should beat Roro," I don't think it's that straightforward. Granted Roro's ZvZ hasn't been doing well lately, but he's had good results in that MU in the past, and he had a clear BO advantage. I agree that JD hasn't exactly had the kind of high profile wins I'd like to see to justify those losses, but pretty much nobody has been producing that kind of result. The only people whose opponent lists I can't really pick apart are Light and Bogus, both of whom have losing records. So I'm going to shrug my shoulders a bit about JD's stats. I think he looks scary as all fuck. And that's why I think he deserves top 5. I do agree that a loss tonight would spoil the picture for JD, especially because nobody on STX *should* beat him (not that either of his losses *should* have happened, but losses to players you're supposed to be able to beat *do* happen... up to a point; beyond that point you have to ask if there's something wrong). With regards to Bisu, my thinking is sort of similar. I think his PvZ is absurdly scary and I don't think the loss to Bogus is a good judge of his PvT. For PvP... Stork seems to totally have Bisu's number these days so I'm sort of willing to forgive that loss. The loss to Free ways a bit more heavily in my mind. I generally tend to think that Free is the unsung hero among the Six Dragons, but Free has been struggling for the past year to maintain his A team spot. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37084 Posts
I want the 2012 OSL to start already so that our power rank can come out fast!!! | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
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o[twist]
United States4903 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Lachrymose
Australia1928 Posts
On January 01 2012 08:43 Mortality wrote: With regards to Bisu, my thinking is sort of similar. I think his PvZ is absurdly scary and I don't think the loss to Bogus is a good judge of his PvT. For PvP... Stork seems to totally have Bisu's number these days so I'm sort of willing to forgive that loss. The loss to Free ways a bit more heavily in my mind. I think the loss to Bogus was by the far the worst loss of the season for Bisu. He had a real opportunity to win that game and he did not play well enough. He could have at least stalled for a lot longer with the amount of Dragoons he had out, but he let Bogus move too freely into position. The game against Free was not a bad loss at all. Free rolled the build-order dice and it payed off. Chase out of the scouting Probe with the first Dragoon, immeditately drop a Nexus and pray Bisu is playing safe. Bisu went 2-gate obs, so he lost. | ||
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OopsOopsBaby
Singapore3425 Posts
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
On January 01 2012 14:40 OopsOopsBaby wrote: Agreed.last's performance may warrant a special mention. | ||
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Winechu
Singapore1186 Posts
Maybe stats has more to prove in the individual leagues, but he's been a monster in PL for awhile now: clutch when it counts e.g. play-offs, bona fide ace-level player for KT and consistent as heck. He's been easily a top 3 protoss for awhile now and I think that needs to be recognised... | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
Flash 5-0 Bisu 4-3 Jaedong 5-2 Fantasy 4-1 Hydra 4-2 Zero 3-4 Jangbi 4-3 Baby 4-1 Stats 5-1 Effort 4-2 Soulkey 4-2 Stork 5-2 Contrary to my expectations, the last day of round 1 actually muddled everything up rather than providing more clarity. Best of luck Flamewheel. | ||
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
In any sense, will try to write something tomorrow. | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
On January 01 2012 15:35 red4ce wrote: Final Round 1 records among PR relevant players. Flash 5-0 Bisu 4-3 Jaedong 5-2 Fantasy 4-1 Hydra 4-2 Zero 3-4 Jangbi 4-3 Baby 4-1 Stats 5-1 Effort 4-2 Soulkey 4-2 Stork 5-2 Contrary to my expectations, the last day of round 1 actually muddled everything up rather than providing more clarity. Best of luck Flamewheel. ...man forgetting bogus... | ||
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VGhost
United States3618 Posts
 Happy New Year! | ||
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