SC2 in Proleague? - Page 50

On October 21 2011 20:17 Boblion wrote:

Boxer was already triple dropping vs Chojja on 815 back in 2005, but eh i doubt you know much about bw lol.

On October 21 2011 20:10 [F_]aths wrote:
How should I know that yet? Before Boxer came, micro was not as much involved in BW. Who ever thought that it would worth it to micromanage single units so crazy?

On October 21 2011 20:19 Kipsate wrote:


Except the game has been out for a year or a little over a year now, what exceptional micro has been developed or found now?after 1.5 years the only thing we have seen in terms of micro which is two-sided is Marine splitting against banelings. SC2's metagame advances at a far paster pace then BW used to do.

SC2 builds forth on the knowledge garnered by BW.

On October 21 2011 20:36 NeonFlare wrote:
SC2 still needs both expansions and some patches to reach to the point BW has, still the meta evolves much faster. BW deserves HD remake to make up for its limited resolution.

Time will tell.

On October 21 2011 20:27 ShadeR wrote:

Yeah the age argument is pretty stupid. proBW has mapped out all these concepts of timing, hyper-micro, and management. It's insane to think SC2 needs as many years as BW did to 'discover' it's shit. Compound this fact with the nature of games and replays it should be self evident that the give it time position falls on it's face.

On October 21 2011 18:03 [F_]aths wrote:
I would rather say it is amazing what Broodwar became depite all the bugs and issues. But I think it is clear that a good game should not have strange bugs. How would you know that a designed "bug" works as intended? Good game design should not rely on flaws.

With SC2 requiring less actions for macro and unit production, the players can use their APM for other things, for example multi-pronged drops. In a recent SC2 game, Ganzi dropped Leenock like hell. For most viewers this should be more exciting than spider mine defusion with dragoons. Overall, SC2 takes a somewhat different skill set than BW to excel in pro play, but I don't see that it is somehow proved that BW requires the "better" or "more worthy" skillset. We just got used to it over the years. Who can perform SC2 drops like Ganzi did? Not even your everyday western online cup winner. SC2 does not allow any diamond or master player to show amazing play like top playes.

In SC2, Koreans still own white dudes, but SC2 got more accessible for white dudes. This allows for a much larger player-base. Through quantity comes quality, as we have more potential gosus. So even if one feels that SC2 compromized the BW experience (which is debatable, I think) one also should see the bright side. While the BW pro scene did not die out yet, I think it is clear for everyone that SC2 is the future; if one likes it or not. It's our turn to ensure that this future is as enjoyable as possible.

On October 21 2011 18:03 [F_]aths wrote:
With SC2 requiring less actions for macro and unit production, the players can use their APM for other things, for example multi-pronged drops. In a recent SC2 game, Ganzi dropped Leenock like hell. For most viewers this should be more exciting than spider mine defusion with dragoons.

On October 21 2011 20:27 craz3d wrote:


Honestly, the majority of SC2 posters remind me of virgins trying to sound like they know about sex. If you haven't played BW past the single player then you shouldn't be posting here.

On October 21 2011 21:23 konadora wrote:


lol no

On October 21 2011 18:03 [F_]aths wrote:
I would rather say it is amazing what Broodwar became depite all the bugs and issues. But I think it is clear that a good game should not have strange bugs. How would you know that a designed "bug" works as intended? Good game design should not rely on flaws.

With SC2 requiring less actions for macro and unit production, the players can use their APM for other things, for example multi-pronged drops. In a recent SC2 game, Ganzi dropped Leenock like hell. For most viewers this should be more exciting than spider mine defusion with dragoons. Overall, SC2 takes a somewhat different skill set than BW to excel in pro play, but I don't see that it is somehow proved that BW requires the "better" or "more worthy" skillset. We just got used to it over the years. Who can perform SC2 drops like Ganzi did? Not even your everyday western online cup winner. SC2 does not allow any diamond or master player to show amazing play like top playes.

In SC2, Koreans still own white dudes, but SC2 got more accessible for white dudes. This allows for a much larger player-base. Through quantity comes quality, as we have more potential gosus. So even if one feels that SC2 compromized the BW experience (which is debatable, I think) one also should see the bright side. While the BW pro scene did not die out yet, I think it is clear for everyone that SC2 is the future; if one likes it or not. It's our turn to ensure that this future is as enjoyable as possible.

On October 21 2011 21:32 Kipsate wrote:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwO6_cq9vSs#t=9m45s

you need perfect fcking micro to do this.

On October 21 2011 20:52 bgx wrote:


There is one thought lurking in me, that there is almost nothing to discover ever?... the biggest thing that made WOOOOOOOOOAHHH was simple hold position muta vs thor, which add a little depth, but there's the problem. Apparently it was intended and since nothing new came up, with perfectionism attempt at making a "balanced game" there will be nothing to discover on micro level of play because by the definition its unintended. BW was made in different times, when each game had it quirks which ironically worked beautifully and enriched gameplay , counter strike had unintended movements, brood war, not sure about quake but those are the greatest games in esports industry not some flukes.

Im not saying that producers should make a bugged games and pray for "good bugs" but should give much more freedom in control/ game engine. So units CAN be actually controlled not a-moved/moved. So then we can talk about technique and discovering things. Current engine is not giving you much freedom. But thats a discussion for balance/design thread.

On October 21 2011 18:03 [F_]aths wrote:
I would rather say it is amazing what Broodwar became depite all the bugs and issues. But I think it is clear that a good game should not have strange bugs. How would you know that a designed "bug" works as intended? Good game design should not rely on flaws.

With SC2 requiring less actions for macro and unit production, the players can use their APM for other things, for example multi-pronged drops. In a recent SC2 game, Ganzi dropped Leenock like hell. For most viewers this should be more exciting than spider mine defusion with dragoons. Overall, SC2 takes a somewhat different skill set than BW to excel in pro play, but I don't see that it is somehow proved that BW requires the "better" or "more worthy" skillset. We just got used to it over the years. Who can perform SC2 drops like Ganzi did? Not even your everyday western online cup winner. SC2 does not allow any diamond or master player to show amazing play like top playes.

In SC2, Koreans still own white dudes, but SC2 got more accessible for white dudes. This allows for a much larger player-base. Through quantity comes quality, as we have more potential gosus. So even if one feels that SC2 compromized the BW experience (which is debatable, I think) one also should see the bright side. While the BW pro scene did not die out yet, I think it is clear for everyone that SC2 is the future; if one likes it or not. It's our turn to ensure that this future is as enjoyable as possible.

On October 21 2011 20:52 bgx wrote:
There is one thought lurking in me, that there is almost nothing to discover ever?... the biggest thing that made WOOOOOOOOOAHHH was simple hold position muta vs thor, which add a little depth, but there's the problem. Apparently it was intended and since nothing new came up, with perfectionism attempt at making a "balanced game" there will be nothing to discover on micro level of play because by the definition its unintended. BW was made in different times, when each game had it quirks which ironically worked beautifully and enriched gameplay , counter strike had unintended movements, brood war, not sure about quake but those are the greatest games in esports industry not some flukes.

On October 21 2011 21:59 HighTemper wrote:

Lol ninja'd. Thought of the same Flash vs Bisu godly micro battle right away.

On October 21 2011 20:50 Greg_J wrote:

Why do people keep talking about a HD remake of Broodwar? Was there an announcement I missed or something. I don’t see anyone buying that or wanting to play it. It just won’t be the same as Broodwar. I’m sure a lot of the modern game in Broodwar was not intended by the games designers and trying to change the game or upgrade it will undoubtedly change it in unforeseen ways that are more likely to make it worse.

There is nothing wrong with Broodwar it doesn't need any kind of remake. If you can't see past the graphics that’s you're problem you're missing out.

On October 21 2011 22:33 forumtext wrote:


Do they have to manually A click on the mines or does Dragoon AI target mines first?