On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote: This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.)
Unfortunately units clumping comes from being able to control 255 units on 1 hotkey so that is unlikely to change. It is also unlikely that Blizzard would remove something as drastic as warpgates even though it caused more problems than gameplay strategies.
If this does happen and it leads to BW being cast in english I dont see how this could possibly be bad for either community... I would give BW a much better and longer chance (i tried watching GTR restreams) than I have before because I would finally be able to understand what the hell I'm watching. This would be a great chance to showcase the beauty that is BW that I hear over and over again from the BW vets but I just cannot grasp with the language barrier.
Hope this doesn't mean less funding or anything bad for Proleague/Starleagues or anything. Still cool to see. Might be the start of a new major league, which can't be bad.
I hope this isn't true. SC2 fans should love their game and we BW fans shold love ours. In my eyes both cannot be combined in a proleague, it just seems wrong and it is taking the media space away from BW. Oh God I hope this doesnt happen. Ever.
On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote: This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.)
Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you?
Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares.
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
On October 20 2011 05:04 KTF_CloaK wrote: I hope this isn't true. SC2 fans should love their game and we BW fans shold love ours. In my eyes both cannot be combined in a proleague, it just seems wrong and it is taking the media space away from BW. Oh God I hope this doesnt happen. Ever.
I hope it does happen because it could bring new viewers from sc2 to BW and vice versa, it could be beneficial for both sides if done right, and I think proleague can do it right. It could give BW a second wind! It all depends on Kespa's intent.
On October 20 2011 03:01 disciple wrote: Here are my concerned thoughts about it.
The whole thing looks like a way to force a transition to sc2, which is going to be a really "take it or leave it" kind of offer, cause say some sponsors might not find SC2 attractive and just force the teams to disband. The situation is really complicated and I have no idea how this is going to work out, but again it all seems like a way to force the BW competition to SC2, doesn't matter if Flash and Bisu want to switch to SC2 now or in 5 years if they get payed 250k yearly to do it now and play it on TV as they used to do with BW.
This is a good post. Kespa has a ton of leverage if they can steer the PL ship to switch to SC2. It depends on how they explain it to the fangirls.
On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote: This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.)
Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you?
Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares.
Temper tantrum much? Are you going to threaten to punch me through the internet next? Someone hold me, I'm scared.
Thinking about this a bit more, a new SC2 Proleague would be much better than a new SC2 individual league right now. Assuming that the BW teams don't immediately buy up all the existing SC2 teams, getting exposure on an OGN team league would make things much easier for current SC2 teams as more sponsors would be interested on capitalizing on this increased exposure.
Also, an SC2 team league may grow the fanbase more than an SC2 individual league, as the team league dynamic does seem to attract more fans. Plus, GSTL has proven to consistently have better, more exciting games and series compared to the regular GSL, so initially having SC2 on OGN as a team league may be better for attracting and retaining new fans.
Also, does this mean that KeSPA mapmakers will start considering doing SC2 maps? As much as I like the GSL maps, I've always wondered how good SC2 maps can be if made by the same people behind many of the best BW maps of all time.
@PheonixDark, where the hell did you get the idea that BW has been around 20 years, I thought it was a typo but you said it multiple times.
As for sc2 in proleague, its sad but its bound to happen, some of the big league pros will move on to real life, some will keep progaming in a lesser arena, and it'll probably be the day I stop caring about korean SC (The real "esport"). But whatever happens I'll keep enjoying bw while it lasts.
On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote: This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.)
Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you?
Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares.
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
Broodwar was released in 1998. Watching Windows XP was not a hobby for a group of people, and I doubt Windows 7 fans continuously stepped on XP fans' toes dota 2 next year, maybe the homie MVP will switch? I mean that's where the money is at + it has new graphics
On October 20 2011 05:01 Hinanawi wrote: This is terrible news for those of us who don't give a damn about 'e-sports'. You know, those of us who just love Brood War.
I guess it's inevitable. I certainly won't be switching to watch SC2 unless HotS and LotV do a lot to make the game more like BW (get rid of warpgates, refocus the game on siege/anti-siege units, make units clump up less, etc. etc.)
Pull that log out of your ass would you? Where in the fiery fuck did you read that they'd stop broadcasting sc bw? NOWHERE! That's right. Shut the fuck up and stop whining like a little bitch. What's wrong with you?
Thanks for your opinion about sc2 though. I'm sure someone, somewhere out there cares.
Temper tantrum much? Are you going to threaten to punch me through the internet next? Someone hold me, I'm scared.
Seriously sick of all people who litterally do nothing but whine in these threads. Get over it. Go to the battle net forums with that kind of attitude. As Yergidy said it might bring viewers to BW. We know nothing yet. Why are you complaining? Why?
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
Where did you get the 20 years+ from?
I'm arguing on teh internet while drunk, give me a break! My point is, the game has been around for ages, and by the time SC2 is in a position to take over SC1 will be nearly 20 years old.
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
Broodwar was released in 1998. Watching Windows XP was not a hobby for a group of people, and I doubt Windows 7 fans continuously stepped on XP fans' toes dota 2 next year, maybe the homie MVP will switch? I mean that's where the money is at + it has new graphics
The point is that XP is being replaced by an upgraded, new product. Many people aren't happy about certain things not being compatible with XP, like dx11 for instance. And of course businesses aren't happy about the prospects of upgrading, training, etc. The point is, change is inevitable. It's called an analogy, not a direct 1:1 comparison...
On October 20 2011 03:54 TheGlassface wrote: 14 pages and so many topics and no one gets it.
We BW fans are becoming marginalized at every step. Of course we're going to be in defensive postures.
This website is clearly more focused on SCII than BW The majority of us speak English and the English speaking world is clearly more focused on SCII. Hell, we can't even watch our games in English or read about them in English. Our player roster is being marginalized as more and more B teamers and old Bonjwas go over. In almost every global event, BW is being marginalized if not cut right out. Our forum here is a constant battleground, as we now are about 1/2 of the poster count ...
So...yea, now you're telling me that my PL is "meshing," with SCII? I was more than fine with my game, my PL and my website. I have none of these things now, as they were.
I, of all people, don't want to start the war here but the fact is this is why we get pissy. Every, single, time.
Just try and think from our side next time you want to come in here and post like villageidiot or any of his ilk. We don't care that you like your game, we want you to enjoy it. We just want what once was back or at the very least to stop being squeezed in and nudged over to make room for the new puppy.
So, while you see it is "cooperation," and "sharing," we see it as just another in a long line of unfortunate events that continue to shrink and mold our sport alongside something it is not, taking away fans, airtime and players.
Either way, thank you for the news OP. It's always nice to know what is going on in the scene.
This is like a Windows XP fan being upset about Windows 7 taking over, being implemented in businesses, etc. Change happens. BW is amazing, but the fact remains that it was around for more than 20 years. It had a great run and continues to have a healthy life. But you certainly can't expect the scene to live forever. SC2 and BW can live side by side as long as Korea is BW dominated. The entire foreigner scene has moved to SC2. It's sad groups can't find English speaking casters for games, but that's a symptom of a regional product; BW pretty much only dominates in Korea, and China while the rest of the world has moved on.
There are plenty of asshole SC2 fans who seem to take glee in laughing at BW fans and that's unfortunate and wrong. But there are also plenty of delusional BW fans who act like SC2 is some fad that will disappear while their favorite 20 year old game will magically make a comeback, all while demeaning SC2 fans as well as the game. So there's blame on both sides. BW will live as long as the money is there, and like any other thing, it will die when the money leaves. That's life.
Good post in general (though lol @ 20 years). I love your Windows comparison, though, as I went through my own phase of religious devotion to Windows XP over Vista. (You can also throw in the old MS Word 2003 vs. MS Word 2003+ debate. I still use 2003. )
One thing that I'd point out is that BW doesn't even really "dominate" in China; that would be Warcraft 3 and DotA. But that brings up another point, as it shows that multiple competitive games (War3, Star2, SCBW, DotA, DotA2, etc.) can exist side-by-side in complete harmony with each other.
I personally don't think anything's being replaced or marginalized. Kespa's just extending their market.
EPT
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