EPTBisu, Jaedong, Jangbi, Fantasy to Blizzcon 2011 - Page 51
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
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PlosionCornu
Italy814 Posts
We're talking about a BW legend who currently is without a team because of the popularity of SC2. Show some respect. There's definitely a sentiment that SC2 is part of the reason why Jaedong is currently without a team. It makes us feel worse when a group of people decide to come in and start spewing nonsense about how an amazing BW players should come into the SC2 scene when he brings so much talent and entertainment to a dwindling BW scene. Sorry I don't agree with this. You are blaming sc2, whose popularity is minimal in korea compared to bw, for hwaseung backing off? What? It does not even make any sense. Hwaseung backed off because in their opinion esports wasn't profitable enough, that's it. Sc2 is only helping esports outside of korea, the two things are totally unrelated. | ||
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Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
On October 20 2011 14:07 Torpedo.Vegas wrote: It requires different skills sure, and possibly micro mechanics or techniques not even developed yet. Out of the box BW guys will probably not be as awesome as they are in BW, but it is possible they could stumble on some bs micro skill that no one does. Like Bisu showing up and useing some kind of Pheonix graviton beam on his own high templar to dodge emps or some wierd crap like that. (I don't know if that actually works, but you get the idea). Doing cute micro tricks like that would be pretty cool to see once, but would have no effect on how people play the game. It's like how Hiya once used ghosts against free to lockdown an arbiter. In SC2 the game doesn't allow things like moving shot or muta stacking that could actually change the way match ups are played. | ||
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Torpedo.Vegas
United States1890 Posts
On October 20 2011 14:25 Daozzt wrote: Doing cute micro tricks like that would be pretty cool to see once, but would have no effect on how people play the game. It's like how Hiya once used ghosts against free to lockdown an arbiter. In SC2 the game doesn't allow things like moving shot or muta stacking that could actually change the way match ups are played. I do not like broad statements like that because of how definitive and condescending it comes of as. Perhaps SC2 can't use BW tactics like that, but it seems like because it can't do those, it must overall be lacking in that department. Is it not possible for someone to abuse the SC2 game like they did in BW to work out micro tactics like that. It seems like SC2 is just too young and too volatile with patches and expansions to provide any sort of basis for your general stance. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Kiett
United States7639 Posts
On October 20 2011 06:36 Hesmyrr wrote: You know what? Blizzard indeed should put SC2 showmatch and destroy Bisu and co. so bad that people no longer care what happens to BW pros. Most realpolitik solution ever. Yes. Because 4 BW players getting beaten in a game they don't play will totally make people not care about them. We BW fans, we obviously only support our BW pros if they're good at SC2. What. On October 20 2011 06:58 eviltomahawk wrote: I just had a random, filthy thought of me becoming super rich, then paying tons of money to invite TBLS to my mountaintop mansion for a weekend to hang out in a jacuzzi while playing Super Smash Bros. No items, Fox only, Final Destination. XD Oh god yes. I'd take them out for karaoke too. Bring out Jaedong's inner diva. | ||
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Ideas
United States8123 Posts
On October 20 2011 14:47 seraphe wrote: Yes. Because 4 BW players getting beaten in a game they don't play will totally make people not care about them. We BW fans, we obviously only support our BW pros if they're good at SC2. What. no see, he means that if they get destroyed all the sc2 people will stop flooding BW threads saying "god i hope they come to sc2!" so it's actually good for bw (and it's fans) if that happened lol. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On October 20 2011 14:25 Daozzt wrote: In SC2 the game doesn't allow things like moving shot or muta stacking that could actually change the way match ups are played. We've been shown just recently in SC2 that blink micro alone can turn a horrible situation (all in or lose against a much superior force) into possibly winnable. in the same vein we've been seen that star sense is just as important as well as some absolutely insane (and overlooked) unit spreading in PvP. (seriously watch JYP, and watch JYp move 7 units away from eachother simultaeneously while blink dodging collosus fire. i don't think we'll see that again anytime soon) it's like watching a couple marines take out a lurker, while dropping a zergs base (and dodging the numerous scourge along the way) it's pretty exciting. muta stacking took so long to be discovered and BW was not a dead boring game beforehand. and moving shot exists for viking, brood lords, pheonix( lol ). it's just not as used as in BW (yet). SC2 new techniques and strategies always go in cycle the way the game is working out. right now it's protosses turn, | ||
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sluggaslamoo
Australia4494 Posts
On October 20 2011 15:58 PrinceXizor wrote: We've been shown just recently in SC2 that blink micro alone can turn a horrible situation (all in or lose against a much superior force) into possibly winnable. in the same vein we've been seen that star sense is just as important as well as some absolutely insane (and overlooked) unit spreading in PvP. (seriously watch JYP, and watch JYp move 7 units away from eachother simultaeneously while blink dodging collosus fire. i don't think we'll see that again anytime soon) it's like watching a couple marines take out a lurker, while dropping a zergs base (and dodging the numerous scourge along the way) it's pretty exciting. muta stacking took so long to be discovered and BW was not a dead boring game beforehand. and moving shot exists for viking, brood lords, pheonix( lol ). it's just not as used as in BW (yet). SC2 new techniques and strategies always go in cycle the way the game is working out. right now it's protosses turn, The problem is not discovering micro tricks in SC2, we've discovered plenty of them, voidray phasing, viking flower, burrowed neural parasite, etc. Could you imagine what would happen to BW if it was Blizzard today, back then? BW would only be half as good as it is now, and SOG shifts would be catalyzed by patching, rather than letting the game develop on its own. I'm just sick to death of Blizzard patching "un-intended gameplay mechanics", when they don't have a clue which direction the game should actually be heading e-sports wise, because they are so out of touch with the pro-gaming community. For example with Void Ray phasing, the only players that actually could use them were advanced players, yet it was the poorer players who would never actually see that in the game that were complaining about it. Who should Blizzard listen to? Well they should just have ignored the 90% of players that complained because those players would never see that in a game anyway, yet I'm sure they would enjoy watching it, when good players battle it out. | ||
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rift
1819 Posts
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nomatch353
69 Posts
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ImbaTosS
United Kingdom1689 Posts
On October 20 2011 18:08 nomatch353 wrote: I have a question guys, If jaedong switch to sc2, how much time until he reach mvp,nestea level? Not much. But. This. Won't happen. | ||
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Kiett
United States7639 Posts
On October 20 2011 18:08 nomatch353 wrote: I have a question guys, If jaedong switch to sc2, how much time until he reach mvp,nestea level? I know you may think we're all-knowing seers, but alas, we are not. There has yet to be any player even close to Jaedong's caliber to make the switch, so there's really no way to say until it actually happens. If it happens at all. Although personally, I'd give him a couple of weeks. | ||
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Oktyabr
Singapore2234 Posts
It's heart wrenching to know that the few guys you've been rooting for 4-6 years continuously have decided to throw in the towel for whatever reason, and from that day on the only glimpses of magic that they've demonstrated through the gameplay that they're famous for can only be viewed through VODs of the past. You'll never have the chance to CHEER for them again, you'll never get to see them claim another championship in what they do best, and what you enjoy watching them do the most. I believe some of the SC2 fans here (trying my best to avoid generalisations) have never watched a competitive game grow for these many years straight, and therefore cannot sympathise with the sentiments expressed by the hardcore BW fans here and hence unable to appreciate the true value of any champion that they would sincerely root for. They'll never understand the magic these passing heroes have woven, and that's why they wouldn't know how painful it is to read "I hope they switch" comments over and over again. Can you truly be a fan of E-sports if you believe that the success of your favorite game depends on the demise of another competitive game? I'd respectfully wish that these 4 professionals stay with BW and see it to its end, for the sake of immortalizing BW history in the hearts of BW fans. These 4 have their fame brought up by BW, and it would be ideal if they do their fans a service by holding out until the last moment, even though they have no obligation to. Let BW fans remain captivated by the same allure they've been experiencing for the past few years. These stars are integral to that. This is no different from being thankful to Sky (most renowned Chinese pro-gamer) for not having any intention of leaving the game that brought him to glory. It would be cool if they switched, but it's absolutely not necessary. SC2's future is independent of them, and SC2's brand as an E-sport would have a better footing if it didn't rely on a superstar from the outside. Yes, I do mean the outside, because SC2 and BW are really two different games. SC2's future as a game is limitless; there is still so much time ahead of it for any fine-tuning. Eventually, it might reach BW's status of a finished product where it comprises of a couple of years of balance patching, and ten thousand man-years of atheletic hard work and fan dedication. Until then, I'd rather people save their breathe debating on which game is *better*, as if it is meaningful at this point in time. Let's just enjoy Blizzcon for what it's worth, shall we? | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
On October 20 2011 18:36 Oktyabr wrote: I've watched at best 30 odd BW VODs of Nalra, oov, Boxer, Bisu, Flash & Jaedong, while I've followed SC2 since its launch so you can consider me a SC2 fan. Prior to SC2, I've been following the WC3 scene for 8 years and I can believe I can comprehend the emotions associated with player retirements, or players transitioning into other games, or a game seeing its own sunset slowly, but eventually. It's heart wrenching to know that the few guys you've been rooting for 4-6 years continuously have decided to throw in the towel for whatever reason, and from that day on the only glimpses of magic that they've demonstrated through the gameplay that they're famous for can only be viewed through VODs of the past. You'll never have the chance to CHEER for them again, you'll never get to see them claim another championship in what they do best, and what you enjoy watching them do the most. I believe some of the SC2 fans here (trying my best to avoid generalisations) have never watched a competitive game grow for these many years straight, and therefore cannot sympathise with the sentiments expressed by the hardcore BW fans here and hence unable to appreciate the true value of any champion that they would sincerely root for. They'll never understand the magic these passing heroes have woven, and that's why they wouldn't know how painful it is to read "I hope they switch" comments over and over again. Can you truly be a fan of E-sports if you believe that the success of your favorite game depends on the demise of another competitive game? I'd respectfully wish that these 4 professionals stay with BW and see it to its end, for the sake of immortalizing BW history in the hearts of BW fans. These 4 have their fame brought up by BW, and it would be ideal if they do their fans a service by holding out until the last moment, even though they have no obligation to. Let BW fans remain captivated by the same allure they've been experiencing for the past few years. These stars are integral to that. This is no different from being thankful to Sky (most renowned Chinese pro-gamer) for not having any intention of leaving the game that brought him to glory. It would be cool if they switched, but it's absolutely not necessary. SC2's future is independent of them, and SC2's brand as an E-sport would have a better footing if it didn't rely on a superstar from the outside. Yes, I do mean the outside, because SC2 and BW are really two different games. SC2's future as a game is limitless; there is still so much time ahead of it for any fine-tuning. Eventually, it might reach BW's status of a finished product where it comprises of a couple of years of balance patching, and ten thousand man-years of atheletic hard work and fan dedication. Until then, I'd rather people save their breathe debating on which game is *better*, as if it is meaningful at this point in time. Let's just enjoy Blizzcon for what it's worth, shall we? yeah .. what this guy said .. | ||
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julomat
20 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On October 20 2011 13:23 sluggaslamoo wrote: That said, there is no muta-micro or defilers in SC2 and zerglings cannot be microed against marines. Huh? Yeah they can. Same goes for Bisu without probe-micro, corsair/DT. Huk probes are no match for Bisu probes, but why can't you micro probes as much in SC2 as in BW? I don't see why it's not possible Or Stork without Reavers or Carriers.  On October 20 2011 14:25 Daozzt wrote: In SC2 the game doesn't allow things like moving shot or muta stacking that could actually change the way match ups are played. They gave moving shot to marines (...) and muta stacking does exist. You actually have to go out of your way to have mutas not stack against Thor shots. In general, though, you're right. Prism/HT micro is starting to take off, though. On October 20 2011 18:20 seraphe wrote: I know you may think we're all-knowing seers, but alas, we are not. There has yet to be any player even close to Jaedong's caliber to make the switch, so there's really no way to say until it actually happens. If it happens at all. Although personally, I'd give him a couple of weeks. He won't switch while he's good, but Nada is on record saying that an A-list Zerg who switched would dominate the scene, while an A-list Protoss or Terran would be less of a big deal. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 20 2011 21:33 Ribbon wrote: Huh? Yeah they can. Huk probes are no match for Bisu probes, but why can't you micro probes as much in SC2 as in BW? I don't see why it's not possible They gave moving shot to marines (...) and muta stacking does exist. You actually have to go out of your way to have mutas not stack against Thor shots. In general, though, you're right. Prism/HT micro is starting to take off, though. He won't switch while he's good, but Nada is on record saying that an A-list Zerg who switched would dominate the scene, while an A-list Protoss or Terran would be less of a big deal. Huh? Yeah they can. Not up to the point of SCBW zerglings, SC2 lings autosurround and are (significantly) weaker then their BW counterpart, Muta-Micro as we know is different, its just harass with mutas and back up, its not the same) Huk probes are no match for Bisu probes, but why can't you micro probes as much in SC2 as in BW? I don't see why it's not possible Bisu's probes never die in BvZ, ever, Zerglings however are significantly faster then probes in SC2 on creep(plus you have a queen), so that takes out any case of the probe who never dies, not to mention that probes have moving shot in SCBW, they do not have that in SC2. Sairs do not exist in SC2 and they have been replaced by their counterpart, the Phoenix, the Dark templar has also been changed from SCBW to SC2(in a rather, roundabout manner), making it weaker aswell. Or Stork without Reavers or Carriers. They gave moving shot to marines (...) and muta stacking does exist. You actually have to go out of your way to have mutas not stack against Thor shots. Moving shot on marines what you call it is called stutter step, its not really the same as moving shot, moving shot is combined with patrol micro on a vulture, the same is with mutalisks, its not only the stacking, it is combined with patrol micro which requires a certain technique(I am not fucking kidding here) to master. In general, though, you're right. Prism/HT micro is starting to take off, though. Thank god it is(The hp/shield, or maybe it was just shield buff on the Prism really helps player using them more for other things then just speczial taktiks), sadly storms aren't as good in SC2 as in SCBW due to clumping and shit, still workerline storms are always fun to watch. | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
How can we actually talk about that when most SC2 pro-players started playing a year or so ago? We actually have NO IDEA how far the micro can be pushed in SC2, since right now, even for pros, macro is the winning factor. In a year or two, when every pro-players will pretty much macro at top level, micro will be the winning factor and only then we will know if SC2 is less or more micro oriented. And who know? Maybe LotV and HotS will add some awesome micro oriented casters and units. Yes, for now BW is on another level, and that's fine. If you like the BW scene better, watch it. But some peoples actually enjoy following the SC2 scene, I don't see what is wrong with that. I hope that SC2 will become as good as BW, and watching the western E-Sports scene growing so much with SC2 is fun as hell. I watched some vod from older MLG and then from Orlando, and you can easily see the progress. Players are better and will continue to get better. So many things are not yet used at their full potential. 2 Immortal drop harass, blink micro, tank target fireing, Heartseeker missile, nuke positioning potential, and probably so much other things will be discovered. But it's true that some ability are anti-micro, like snipe, emp and fungal, and I do hope that they will be gone at HotS or at least tweaked. I don't want Bisu, Jaedong or Jangbi to switch to SC2 at all cost, but if they do, I'm sure that they will bring some nice tricks to the SC2 e-sports table. Sorry for my poor english! | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
On October 20 2011 21:52 Xalorian wrote: I lol each time someone talk about BW being more micro-oriented than SC2, or that BW need more skills than SC2. How can we actually talk about that when most SC2 pro-players started playing a year or so ago? We actually have NO IDEA how far the micro can be pushed in SC2, since right now, even for pros, macro is the winning factor. In a year or two, when every pro-players will pretty much macro at top level, micro will be the winning factor and only then we will know if SC2 is less or more micro oriented. And who know? Maybe LotV and HotS will add some awesome micro oriented casters and units. Yes, for now BW is on another level, and that's fine. If you like the BW scene better, watch it. But some peoples actually enjoy following the SC2 scene, I don't see what is wrong with that. I hope that SC2 will become as good as BW, and watching the western E-Sports scene growing so much with SC2 is fun as hell. I watched some vod from older MLG and then from Orlando, and you can easily see the progress. Players are better and will continue to get better. So many things are not yet used at their full potential. 2 Immortal drop harass, blink micro, tank target fireing, Heartseeker missile, nuke positioning potential, and probably so much other things will be discovered. But it's true that some ability are anti-micro, like snipe, emp and fungal, and I do hope that they will be gone at HotS or at least tweaked. I don't want Bisu, Jaedong or Jangbi to switch to SC2 at all cost, but if they do, I'm sure that they will bring some nice tricks to the SC2 e-sports table. Sorry for my poor english! There is nothing wrong with watching SC2. | ||
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