EPTAs for current SC:BW progamers, the only dominant player is sziky (recently he only lost few defiler games to scan).
Foreign SC:BW "Progamers" and Upcomers - Page 4
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
As for current SC:BW progamers, the only dominant player is sziky (recently he only lost few defiler games to scan). | ||
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gen.Sun
United States539 Posts
That's the most obvious advertising channel I can think of. | ||
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pyrogenetix
United Arab Emirates5090 Posts
1) Why do you bother with this old game that has shitty graphics? 2) Why are you playing a game that needs so much attention and movement? I trained a guy before, and I actually thought I was going to fulfill one of my dreams of actually getting one person into decent sc. We practiced up to 20 hours a week for 4 months. His apm got to around 150 and then one day he just gave up and went back to playing DOTA. | ||
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Voidsoul
Germany154 Posts
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
A.) A pretty high barrier of entry. There are an actually decent amount of tournaments, all things considered, but they're all for the tippy-top people. There are a lot of "Bronze-only" SC2 tournaments allowing everyone to get involved, but this is a hard idea to port to BW because smurfing is so much easier. B.) A general sense of doom and gloom in the BW community. While understandable, this is off-putting to a lot of potential new fans. About half of the conversation about BW is about how dead it is because now only one television channel is dedicated to it ;_;. C.) BW treating SC2 fans as a scourge, rather than a base of potential new BW fans. While again understandable (there are a lot of SC2 trolls), it's counter-productive in the long run. r/starcraft is starting to have more and more BW content, and the BW special of State of the Game might have helped, but we're not really capitalizing on it very well. I've been trying to think of a way to make a BW tournament that would be appealing to SC2 fans, such as by commissioning BW ports of SC2 maps for a tournament, or perhaps doing an SC2:BW tournament, SC2 bronzes only. Something like that. I think the BW community needs to take it upon themselves to save BW. I would not blame it on the success of SC2 in the foreign scene. It's not affecting Korea at all, and "I'm going to start playing BW and make monis" was never a sensible thing for a foreigner to say; you play it because it's fun. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
I have in fact manage to get 4 friends to watch and BW with me and they love it. Personally, I am trying to get better so I'll be able to compete and be very good it. So its not like there is no one that's trying to be good at this game. BTW Sayle, if you're reading this, I wanna say, good job yo~! One of my friends regularly tunes into your stream and told me that he likes your commentary, so please dont think that your effort and hardwork is wasted  | ||
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Holy Check
Romania155 Posts
On September 27 2011 02:49 ImbaTosS wrote: The idea that if we reach out on various communities, not just Teamliquid, with projects to get people watching and understanding BW, is a strong one. Then even if one in 50 people who watch our professional styled, beginner-friendly commentaries actually log on and play the game *which is ***FREE*** by the way, we will still be bringing one hell of a lot of fresh blood in. We should definitely do something to draw in fresh blood. Tournaments and money prizes help, but they are entirely directed at players who are already in the scene and are already good. So here's what I think we should do: STEP 1: Get a motto, and logo and a project manager / leader. Broodwar was launched on 30 November 1998. That's 13 years of Broodwar in 2 months. It's a sign already, so we can start with that. STEP 2: Make an article about how good BW was / still is. Link epic moments, epic matches, epic commentaries, anything that would help the cause. End with an open invitation for an official event; something like "BW revival". STEP 3: Find one volunteer from as many countries as possible and get the article translated in every language. Each volunteer should post the article on local gaming / computer forums. STEP 4: Wait for the word to spread around. STEP 5: Stream an official event with showmatches, micro-battles, vanilla Starcraft, Sayle, etc (a lottery maybe lol) at a previously set date. STEP 6: Profit. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
On September 27 2011 19:37 Holy Check wrote: We should definitely do something to draw in fresh blood. Tournaments and money prizes help, but they are entirely directed at players who are already in the scene and are already good. So here's what I think we should do: STEP 1: Get a motto, and logo and a project manager / leader. Broodwar was launched on 30 November 1998. That's 13 years of Broodwar in 2 months. It's a sign already, so we can start with that. STEP 2: Make an article about how good BW was / still is. Link epic moments, epic matches, epic commentaries, anything that would help the cause. End with an open invitation for an official event; something like "BW revival". STEP 3: Find one volunteer from as many countries as possible and get the article translated in every language. Each volunteer should post the article on local gaming / computer forums. STEP 4: Wait for the word to spread around. STEP 5: Stream an official event with showmatches, micro-battles, vanilla Starcraft, Sayle, etc (a lottery maybe lol) at a previously set date. STEP 6: Profit. I would volunteer to spread stream links, time, articles, news and whatever to local Malaysian forums | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
My issues with watching BW are; A) Your community treats the SC2 community like shit, you're not making any friends. B) You guys may love the Korean commentators but if you want new blood you need good, active english commentators. C) Streamers, you need more/better featured streamers. I don't mean quality of play because lets be honest I sure as hell can't tell the difference between a B and a B+ player; I mean streamers who are entertaining / engaging ala Destiny. D) A way to play BW with people of equal skill level (automated matchmaking, sustained smurf removal efforts, reworking the tier system (expand D into more then +/-, it's the vast majority of the player base so why waste so many tiers into seperating such the rest (a small % of the player base)). E) Community, partially addressed in A) but also you guys need leaders with charisma. People like Day[9], DjWheat who generate content and gives the community something to rally around, it's far to split right now. F) Far too much of the BW base on TL is focused on Korea, sure they might be the best but if you want new blood then you need devote a lot of attention to incredibly low level play. D only tournaments, high skill level players who spend time coaching/explaining/writing guides and so on. G) An entry point; for SC2 I can simply point people at Day[9] as an entry point to the scene. Who can you point prospective BW people at? H) A condensed scene, ICCup, fish, brain what? Way to split, you need a good mass of new newbies who can all play with each other if you want to drive interest. Pick one and rally around it, you won't get enough new blood to fill three things. H) A hook, why should I swap over? I already have more content then I could ever watch in the SC2 scene and as much as you guys like to circle jerk each other with how much better BW is then SC2 guess what? If you aren't already a BW fan then that's not a very convincing reason to watch. Give people reasons, make (english) hi-light reels, make articles that showcase fun/exciting BW games (contact whoever wrote the Savior article and beg them to write for you, that was one damned good read), throw noob only events. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
As I said there is far more great SC2 content then I can watch already. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
G) An entry point; for SC2 I can simply point people at Day[9] as an entry point to the scene. Who can you point prospective BW people at? I would first point to Day[9]'s BW the dailies which are awesome~ BTW, Nony/Tyler, Chill, Stylish, ret and many other foreign 'progamers' have made FPVOD's of them teaching how to play BW...Maybe it's time to list them out again in a new thread for people to see. | ||
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masterbreti
Korea (South)2711 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: SC2 player here. My issues with watching BW are; A) Your community treats the SC2 community like shit, you're not making any friends. B) You guys may love the Korean commentators but if you want new blood you need good, active english commentators. C) Streamers, you need more/better featured streamers. I don't mean quality of play because lets be honest I sure as hell can't tell the difference between a B and a B+ player; I mean streamers who are entertaining / engaging ala Destiny. D) A way to play BW with people of equal skill level (automated matchmaking, sustained smurf removal efforts, reworking the tier system (expand D into more then +/-, it's the vast majority of the player base so why waste so many tiers into seperating such the rest (a small % of the player base)). E) Community, partially addressed in A) but also you guys need leaders with charisma. People like Day[9], DjWheat who generate content and gives the community something to rally around, it's far to split right now. F) Far too much of the BW base on TL is focused on Korea, sure they might be the best but if you want new blood then you need devote a lot of attention to incredibly low level play. D only tournaments, high skill level players who spend time coaching/explaining/writing guides and so on. G) An entry point; for SC2 I can simply point people at Day[9] as an entry point to the scene. Who can you point prospective BW people at? H) A condensed scene, ICCup, fish, brain what? Way to split, you need a good mass of new newbies who can all play with each other if you want to drive interest. Pick one and rally around it, you won't get enough new blood to fill three things. H) A hook, why should I swap over? I already have more content then I could ever watch in the SC2 scene and as much as you guys like to circle jerk each other with how much better BW is then SC2 guess what? If you aren't already a BW fan then that's not a very convincing reason to watch. Give people reasons, make (english) hi-light reels, make articles that showcase fun/exciting BW games (contact whoever wrote the Savior article and beg them to write for you, that was one damned good read), throw noob only events. Lets respond to these one by one shall we. A) We don't treat the sc2 community like anything. we ignore it. Its people who come in here and troll the bw forums insulting our game. We get defensive and then attack back. Generally its the sc2 community that treats us like shit. B) We have matches that are casted all the time by people like Sayle, crooked (don't know if still active) and a few more. For live events we have had people do english streams, to be unsucessful. C) we have many great streamers. Just because you cannot tell between B- and B+. That is something that you need to learn about. and auctally pay attention to each player and you can clearly see the differnces. D) no automatchmaking in the bw client. The current system works fine and during the right times you can find a game pretty easily. the letter system has been around for ages. It won't change. and tbh I'm glad it won't. Its not like sc2 where a new league comes out every month or two with a new shiny icon and what blizzard describes as "shiny and pretty colours,". E) we have had a lot of things happen here and there. with projects being taken up by a lot of players to make things happen. Right now the community itself is rather divided so uniting the community would have to happen before this would ever happen F) This has been done countless times and auctally is done many times a month with iccup, and people here also writing guides. Auctally i've seen almost 10-15 since thebeginning of the year. G) Day[9] did 100+ BW dailies. so we often tell people to check out his bw dailies. other than that we have a ton of vods and such out by sayle. and a few by imbatoss. H) sc2 doesn't even have a condensed scene lol. 5 different regions if I remember correctly. we have 4 if you count bnet as one. for lower level players, iccup has always been where to go. with fish and brian being for more experinced players. H2) bw doesn't have things that make pretty colours and make big booms like sc2. Simply speaking. If you want to play a better, more polished game that is perfectly balanced with such a large amount of depth. Play bw. If you want to play a game that has pretty colours and units that make pretty lazers that go BOOM. If you want to play a game that gets changed every month or two. If you want to play a game with very little depth. Then play sc2. We can't change the game for anyone. Nor do I think we would want to. If you want articles. we have new articles springing up all the time. Just people don't notice them. Not our fault that people ignore all bw articles for the sc2 ones. | ||
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blubbdavid
Switzerland2412 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: SC2 player here. My issues with watching BW are; A) Your community treats the SC2 community like shit, you're not making any friends. B) You guys may love the Korean commentators but if you want new blood you need good, active english commentators. C) Streamers, you need more/better featured streamers. I don't mean quality of play because lets be honest I sure as hell can't tell the difference between a B and a B+ player; I mean streamers who are entertaining / engaging ala Destiny. D) A way to play BW with people of equal skill level (automated matchmaking, sustained smurf removal efforts, reworking the tier system (expand D into more then +/-, it's the vast majority of the player base so why waste so many tiers into seperating such the rest (a small % of the player base)). E) Community, partially addressed in A) but also you guys need leaders with charisma. People like Day[9], DjWheat who generate content and gives the community something to rally around, it's far to split right now. F) Far too much of the BW base on TL is focused on Korea, sure they might be the best but if you want new blood then you need devote a lot of attention to incredibly low level play. D only tournaments, high skill level players who spend time coaching/explaining/writing guides and so on. G) An entry point; for SC2 I can simply point people at Day[9] as an entry point to the scene. Who can you point prospective BW people at? H) A condensed scene, ICCup, fish, brain what? Way to split, you need a good mass of new newbies who can all play with each other if you want to drive interest. Pick one and rally around it, you won't get enough new blood to fill three things. H) A hook, why should I swap over? I already have more content then I could ever watch in the SC2 scene and as much as you guys like to circle jerk each other with how much better BW is then SC2 guess what? If you aren't already a BW fan then that's not a very convincing reason to watch. Give people reasons, make (english) hi-light reels, make articles that showcase fun/exciting BW games (contact whoever wrote the Savior article and beg them to write for you, that was one damned good read), throw noob only events. A) Yes. Ribbon is struggling desperately with this. B) Sayle, NukeTheStars, especially the latter one has given more than enough Progaming content for Newcomers to watch. C) Ez, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=181497 D)The ICCup Admins sometimes show strange behaviour. Maybe, with much goodwill...? E) Day[9] Podcasts. F) The skill level in BW is so high that even D players are devoted nerds (sry). We have got enough guides and such things. G)Pimpest Plays H) Every foreigner who wants to play seriousely starts on ICCup. Fish is a bit more high level, so no problem here. Same with Brain. I) Here, enter the hall of truth. You will be thankful for all eternity: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlfe/ Final Edits | ||
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sCCrooked
Korea (South)1306 Posts
I'm still active for iCCup tournaments (have yet to really kick off this season) and will be casting other independent tournaments in the coming new year (Stay posted for updates on this!!). We have a good bit of new content on the table for next year I think everyone will enjoy. We really can't help you if you just plain don't look anything up. Judging from your attitude, it looks like you never really had it in your head to give bw any chance in the first place. We won't be able to change that. | ||
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Black[CAT]
Malaysia2589 Posts
On September 27 2011 23:52 sCCrooked wrote: I had written a big and long response to the lettered bullets but masterbreti already pretty much nailed it. One more time for the record too, 99% of the time its us defending SC2 trollers' attacks and not the other way around. There are, of course, isolated incidents, but as a generalization, I feel this is an accurate statement. I'm still active for iCCup tournaments (have yet to really kick off this season) and will be casting other independent tournaments in the coming new year (Stay posted for updates on this!!). We have a good bit of new content on the table for next year I think everyone will enjoy. We really can't help you if you just plain don't look anything up. Judging from your attitude, it looks like you never really had it in your head to give bw any chance in the first place. We won't be able to change that. Don't forget to spread news of any BW events and the streams to websites other than TL and reddit~! | ||
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Brad`
Canada548 Posts
On September 27 2011 23:52 sCCrooked wrote: I had written a big and long response to the lettered bullets but masterbreti already pretty much nailed it. One more time for the record too, 99% of the time its us defending SC2 trollers' attacks and not the other way around. There are, of course, isolated incidents, but as a generalization, I feel this is an accurate statement. I'm still active for iCCup tournaments (have yet to really kick off this season) and will be casting other independent tournaments in the coming new year (Stay posted for updates on this!!). We have a good bit of new content on the table for next year I think everyone will enjoy. We really can't help you if you just plain don't look anything up. Judging from your attitude, it looks like you never really had it in your head to give bw any chance in the first place. We won't be able to change that. Ya people that troll the broodwar forums like Ribbon try to convince us that bw people go into the sc2 forums to troll all day every day. If you ever bother to look at the posting history of the trolls in the sc2 forum they dont even post in any of the bw sections lol. | ||
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Ribbon
United States5278 Posts
On September 27 2011 23:42 masterbreti wrote: Lets respond to these one by one shall we. A) We don't treat the sc2 community like anything. we ignore it. Its people who come in here and troll the bw forums insulting our game. We get defensive and then attack back. Generally its the sc2 community that treats us like shit. Lots of BW trolls pop into the SC2 forums now and then, just as SC2 trolls pop into the BW forum. Most of the BW trolls are concern trolls, while the SC2 trolls are 'LOL SC2 REPLACING BW LOLOLOLOL". Neither are indicative of their communities. B) We have matches that are casted all the time by people like Sayle, crooked (don't know if still active) and a few more. For live events we have had people do english streams, to be unsucessful. I can't believe you forgot Nukethestars. C) we have many great streamers. Just because you cannot tell between B- and B+. That is something that you need to learn about. and auctally pay attention to each player and you can clearly see the differnces. While I'm getting a slight whiff of troll from theButtonmen, it's true that BW could really use a good face of the community type person. There are people who don't like SC2 much who like day[9]. We need one of those from BW D) no automatchmaking in the bw client. The current system works fine and during the right times you can find a game pretty easily. the letter system has been around for ages. It won't change. and tbh I'm glad it won't. Its not like sc2 where a new league comes out every month or two with a new shiny icon and what blizzard describes as "shiny and pretty colours,". I don't know what you're talking about with the bolded stuff. If you can't open your ports for whatever reason, though, it is fucking impossible to join a game in ICCUP, and it's generally a smurf at the low levels. Nothing in the universe is more irritating then spending 40 minutes trying to find a game only to get rushed. I speak from experience. Really nothing we can do there, though. E) we have had a lot of things happen here and there. with projects being taken up by a lot of players to make things happen. Right now the community itself is rather divided so uniting the community would have to happen before this would ever happen The BW community is too busy feeling sorry for itself to do anything productive, useful, or fun. Excepting Game and the sponsors, the BW community is pretty useless at helping BW. F) This has been done countless times and auctally is done many times a month with iccup, and people here also writing guides. Auctally i've seen almost 10-15 since thebeginning of the year. You've seen low-level BW tournaments? Links? I'm honestly interested. G) Day[9] did 100+ BW dailies. so we often tell people to check out his bw dailies. other than that we have a ton of vods and such out by sayle. and a few by imbatoss. We can always use more people, though. H) sc2 doesn't even have a condensed scene lol. 5 different regions if I remember correctly. we have 4 if you count bnet as one. for lower level players, iccup has always been where to go. with fish and brian being for more experinced players. I'm not actually arguing with you, and have no objections to this point. I just didn't want to skip it because I'm responding to everything else  .H2) bw doesn't have things that make pretty colours and make big booms like sc2. Simply speaking. If you want to play a better, more polished game that is perfectly balanced with such a large amount of depth. Play bw. If you want to play a game that has pretty colours and units that make pretty lazers that go BOOM. If you want to play a game that gets changed every month or two. If you want to play a game with very little depth. Then play sc2. We can't change the game for anyone. Nor do I think we would want to. See, this attitude isn't helping BW. At all. "Because SC2 is for inbred retards" doesn't convince SC2 players to play BW, it convinces them not to because the community presents itself as a bunch of hipsters. If you want articles. we have new articles springing up all the time. Just people don't notice them. Not our fault that people ignore all bw articles for the sc2 ones. Link? On September 27 2011 23:52 blubbdavid wrote: G)Pimpest Plays http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDMSD_XnZFA Pimpest play videos are probably the best ads for BW viewership (if maybe not playing it) there are. This is the kind of thing BW fans need to make and post to Reddit and stuff. | ||
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: SC2 player here. My issues with watching BW are; A) Your community treats the SC2 community like shit, you're not making any friends. Some do. But look around and see if some of the hostility is undeserved? A lot of the SC2 "bashing" arises from SC2-only people jumping in various BW-related topics and saying BW is dead or that they hope BW dies or that BW top talent should transfer to SC2. I agree that there needs to be less hostility, but it's a mutual duty for both scenes to curb their own impulses. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: B) You guys may love the Korean commentators but if you want new blood you need good, active english commentators. I think this is true... to a certain extent. When I first started watching BW, I had already played the game for a while so even though I couldn't understand the commentary, it didn't matter that much. Later on, I grew used to, and even loved the excitement the Korean commentators could bring to the match (and the depth, when the VODs get translated by some BW saints like Smix et al). However, I also saw how well Tasteless, Artosis, Husky, and Day[9] were able to bring in casuals, or non RTS-gamers into the scene. The mix of humor and commentary really works on the international audience. The problem so far has been depth, and you only get that when progamers like Idra, Tyler, MC commentate a few matches. Until SC2 reaches the point that balance isn't the primary issue, that's how far the regular commentators can really go. Since BW is such a mature game, I think the SC2 approach won't really work. BW newbies will really need to do their research to follow such a complex game. Consequently, BW newbies have to embrace a "no work, no eat" attitude. That was certainly my attitude when I first started watching full-time BW in 2009. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: C) Streamers, you need more/better featured streamers. I don't mean quality of play because lets be honest I sure as hell can't tell the difference between a B and a B+ player; I mean streamers who are entertaining / engaging ala Destiny. SC2 stole the really cool streamers. Classic example? + Show Spoiler + On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: D) A way to play BW with people of equal skill level (automated matchmaking, sustained smurf removal efforts, reworking the tier system (expand D into more then +/-, it's the vast majority of the player base so why waste so many tiers into seperating such the rest (a small % of the player base)). There are quite a number of threads addressing this already. Just search for it. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: E) Community, partially addressed in A) but also you guys need leaders with charisma. People like Day[9], DjWheat who generate content and gives the community something to rally around, it's far to split right now. Again, SC2 took the best people. Some are still around like Nukethestars, Sayle, etc., but they are few and far between. This isn't an easy thing to ask because it takes up so much time. Day[9] was such a champ for his BW dailies. I doubt anyone could replace that level of dedication. We can hope, though. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: F) Far too much of the BW base on TL is focused on Korea, sure they might be the best but if you want new blood then you need devote a lot of attention to incredibly low level play. D only tournaments, high skill level players who spend time coaching/explaining/writing guides and so on. Lotsa posts on this already. I get the feeling you want BW newbies to be spoon-fed stuff? Ok fine, then show me the money, because in all honesty BW is all about learning on your own, through experience, through patience, and a clear love for the game. Without those traits, even someone spoon-fed every single build order, coached 24/7 by an English-speaking Flash, and who's playing every day would be nothing more than another casual following a trendy game. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: G) An entry point; for SC2 I can simply point people at Day[9] as an entry point to the scene. Who can you point prospective BW people at? Day[9]. On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: H) A condensed scene, ICCup, fish, brain what? Way to split, you need a good mass of new newbies who can all play with each other if you want to drive interest. Pick one and rally around it, you won't get enough new blood to fill three things. Agree fully. However, Fish and Brain are mostly Korean so every newbie is encouraged to go to ICCUP (heck, you can even try Garena!). On September 27 2011 22:43 TheButtonmen wrote: H) A hook, why should I swap over? I already have more content then I could ever watch in the SC2 scene and as much as you guys like to circle jerk each other with how much better BW is then SC2 guess what? If you aren't already a BW fan then that's not a very convincing reason to watch. Give people reasons, make (english) hi-light reels, make articles that showcase fun/exciting BW games (contact whoever wrote the Savior article and beg them to write for you, that was one damned good read), throw noob only events. Why? That's a silly question to ask. We don't know. We can't tell you. It can be many things, it can be one thing, but it's up to YOU, the viewer, the (potential) fan, to decide what makes the swap worthwhile. Life is full of choices to make. You've all seen the content the BW fans produce in terms of articles, videos, and comics. You've seen the translated VODs, Hyungjoon's show, MBC Attack, Old Boy, and everything coming out of Korea that has been processed so that foreigners can enjoy it. You've read the Savior article (c'mon Ver, part 2 please!), the regular previews and postviews, the hype articles, the Team Liquid Final Edits (which is probably the greatest set of essays one could ever read on progaming)... you've seen the LRs, the sick, sick games, the insane skill level of the players, the passion of the fans, the scream of the commentators. I throw that silly question back at you. Why not? For God's sake, why the hell not??? | ||
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Termit
Sweden3466 Posts
The UI and mechanics is just so comfortable in that game and you can rely on like 3-4 hotkeys and not even have under 100 apm to actually win on a high level (by ladder standard). Imagine to come to BW where you don't have enough hotkeys and you have to remake your hotkeys thru the game all the time and you can't select more than 12 units etc. That scares alot of potential new comers to BW away I think. And there is not much to do about that. :/ | ||
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