EPTBW is not broadcasted the same way as in Korea. In Korea you have 13 year olds talking about the game in school. Some kids even watch the games with their parents. When it comes to the foreigner scene there is no such thing as a younger generation of players, so you never see any up and coming players who can challenge the veterans. That's the main reason. I think that the high skill cap is another reason.
Foreign SC:BW "Progamers" and Upcomers - Page 3
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ninini
Sweden1204 Posts
BW is not broadcasted the same way as in Korea. In Korea you have 13 year olds talking about the game in school. Some kids even watch the games with their parents. When it comes to the foreigner scene there is no such thing as a younger generation of players, so you never see any up and coming players who can challenge the veterans. That's the main reason. I think that the high skill cap is another reason. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 26 2011 19:04 Maenander wrote: Has Koll stopped playing? Or does he simply not participate in tournaments? LRM)Kolll? The guy who's played in every tournament outside of Korea over the past year? Nope, not retired. Too lazy to link, check AoV iCCup Starleague, Justin.tv King of the Hill, Twitch.tv King of the Hill, LRM) $75 Island Tournament, Second LRM) $75 Island Tournament, Ribbon Classic, and Kaal's International StarLeague. Can't think of others off the top of my head. On September 27 2011 05:07 ninini wrote: BW is not broadcasted the same way as in Korea. In Korea you have 13 year olds talking about the game in school. Some kids even watch the games with their parents. I talk about BW with the kid I sit next to in Police-Community Relations class that I have in 2 hours. He's an ex-BW player that's transitioned into SC2. Although I'm 23 and not 13. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On September 27 2011 03:56 ImbaTosS wrote: All reality is proving is that what I would like to happen hasn't been done yet. And also that there are more than enough people happy to say "Urrrr it's all fucked, and also it's rubbish playing, and also even if there were something to be done I probably wouldn't do it". Yes. It would take a very special individual to actually pursue a path of getting good at Brood War. It just isn't viable in today's world. The game is mapped out, you could almost say solved. You'd have to be almost crazy to go full-time SC outside of Korea. You compare playing this game to LICKING STAMPS?? You are just mind-blowing. Wow. Just... my god, what did you even come here for? I said playing starcraft is fun, but getting GOOD in starcraft is NOT! (I'm not even saying getting BETTER is not fun, because it is! But getting GOOD - Korean-level-Good - is pretty much dry practice day, in day out. Almost noone to talk to about the game if you're not Korean doesn't help either.) You just insulted me, and pretty much all the people in the BW forum with your few choice statements. Wanna do something for what you love, or are you truly a spectator to life? I'm not really one for doing nothing but jumping on the back of other people's achievements. It's not the path to satisfaction, or happiness, or meaningful longevity. I didn't insult you, but if you prefer to look at it that way, do as you wish. May I expand this argument by asking you to do the following: Imagine somehow a potential up-and-comer emerges in the foreign scene. Please let your imagination go wild and write a few sentences on how exactly would this individual function. Where does he live, what's his personality like, how are his parents, what are his passions. What are his aspirations, motivations, goals etc. Is he a happy person or does he have a 'hole in the soul' he's trying to fix; does he have friends, does he need friends, what keeps him going? Write a shortened biography of his. Make up conditions needed for this person to actually become good in BroodWar. But it has to be believable. I guess my point is that it would take a reincarnation of Buddha(like, a perfect human being) with an ingrained burning passion exclusively for StarCraft to actually fulfill your dream. P.S. Even tho I play and follow almost exclusively SC2 now; I played and followed BW scene for about last 5-6 years. | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
I have read through this thread's discussion and there have been a lot of overly optimistic post and many overly pessimistic posts. Now, here we are, near the end of ISL2, I can tell you for a fact, the foreign scene is not dead. How can it be when there are still people dedicating 40+ hours a week to playing with others dedicating even more time to organize stuff. You can argue that its dying and when it will die or you can just accept the fact that the game will die eventually, however you can't argue that the game is dead, because that's false. Now that we've gotten past that, I'd agree that BW is declining, however this is entirely the community inflicting this upon itself. The Brood War community is large enough to kick itself back into shape, however it doesn't have the strength. People refuse to believe that there is any hope in Brood War and yes, this is true, however why is it true? It's true because you make it true. Why are there no up comers? There are none because anyone you ask would say there is no point getting good at BW. They would say, the community is dying without realizing, they're the ones who are killing the community. And that is what I mean by there is no strength in the community. In order for Brood War to live on in the foreign community, you need strength within the community, people need to believe that the community can expand to former glory or even bigger, if this isn't achieved, there is no doubt, Brood War will come to a speedy end for foreigners. Alright, so I have to go meet up with someone, however I will post again to explain what could be done to increase the size of foreign bw. And you guys gotta quit being so negative, ESPECIALLY people who don't even play bw, don't come here and try to say bw is dead, if it was dead, we wouldn't be able to log on and find games to play and there wouldn't be a major starleague going. There won't be any up and coming talent till people understand what is written in this post and act accordingly, of course this is not the only factor hence, I'll be posting again later. ^^ | ||
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Eywa-
Canada4876 Posts
On September 27 2011 05:45 niteReloaded wrote: P.S. Even tho I play and follow almost exclusively SC2 now; I played and followed BW scene for about last 5-6 years. Well this would explain your pessimistic view on BW, you've already given up so you'll try to get people to follow you in your decision like most would, not to mention people look a hell of a lot better when they're proven right, in this case, you're actually contributing to the death of Brood War and then later you'll say "I told you so". It's like getting on shore saying "man the boat's going to sink" and then splashing water into it. | ||
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Kralic
Canada2628 Posts
As for the potential new talent, it is hard to tell with a limited scene, but if you keep on hosting these tournaments you will eventually see someone who will bring something special to the foreigner scene. I played SC/BW in the early days of 98-01 and then off and on casually and it was nothing compared to todays "amateurs". I don't care if the skill level is not at the Korean level or not, it is nice to see foreigners still competing and enjoying the game. Right now I am deciding between working on BW or SC2. SC2 has the bigger scene, but BW has the nostalgic feeling to it, if I spend enough time on either game I should be able to kick start myself to playing the game decently again. I think I have gotten spoiled by the SC2 matchmaking system, due to the fact I hate trying to find games these days and would rather hit one button and be matched up against someone who is close to my skill rating. BW will have it's players and like it has been said the game will only be dead when no one plays anymore. Thank you BW community for keeping the tournaments still going. edit: Oh and you can also think of things in this perspective. SC2 is the stepping stone to BW, as more people play SC2 and hear about the fabled BW they might want to take up the challenge and see how well they do. Blizzard did include BW in all of the SC2 Collectors editions afterall.  | ||
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Phanekim
United States777 Posts
same with sc2. it will have to die sooner or later. cept its life span is rightnow. with that said...this threadmakes me wanna go on bnet and get some ww2 die or some bgh going on. | ||
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xbankx
703 Posts
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:14 Phanekim wrote: i think its amusing to me because the sc2 scene is plateauing and people are still talkinga bout bw. its been 13 years. i stopped when sc2 beta came out. time to move on. sc2 is the future like it or not. bw may have a niche community but its going to have to die sooner or later. same with sc2. it will have to die sooner or later. cept its life span is rightnow. with that said...this threadmakes me wanna go on bnet and get some ww2 die or some bgh going on. Read the bolded part. You realize your entire post contradicts itself, yes? :/ | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On September 27 2011 06:01 Eywa- wrote: Well this would explain your pessimistic view on BW, you've already given up so you'll try to get people to follow you in your decision like most would, not to mention people look a hell of a lot better when they're proven right, in this case, you're actually contributing to the death of Brood War and then later you'll say "I told you so". It's like getting on shore saying "man the boat's going to sink" and then splashing water into it. You're right. I've noticed the dominos starting to fall. They don't have to all fall IF enough energy is invested to stop it, but, again, without conscious efforts, they will fall. I feel it's unnatural to try to force something to come back to it's peak again. Noone forced BW to grow in the begginning, it just happened. It seems like it's the natural cycle. I mean, similar things happen in economy, cycles. Not even the biggest experts today can successfully stop these cycles, noone has the recipe to kickstart the economy and many have tried. - - - Also, @ImbaToss, after I read all the posts, I see that we are arguing different things. You were just trying to prove your point for any new player that starts playing BW. I was talking about serious players with aspirations for highest ranks. So yeah, it's perfectly possible to start and have success with an initiative that would aim to introduce people to BW. | ||
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Latedi
Sweden1027 Posts
In my case I think I would have stayed if either I had a team/friends or there were at least any events to attend. I think there are like low level tournaments on iccup but I can't remember, and it's hard to get to know people as well. What would be needed is indeed a platform. These forums could probably be enough for that but I rarely see anything else than pros or tournaments being discussed. Newcomers don't know anything about them and would have a hard time talking about it no? Ooh and all the "bw are dying threads". Compare this to the general forum where anyone can post because the threads are a lot more casual. I think it's too hard to actually do anything if you are new. You suck at the game, you have no friends and it's hard making either better. There was something else I wanted to write but I'm to tired to remember, sorry. | ||
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TuElite
Canada2123 Posts
[x] 800$ [ ] earned a respective amount of cash flow | ||
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
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Memnon
Canada37 Posts
People, let's think about what is happening here. We have some people who are taking an initiative, actually thinking about lifting a hand to get BW back on track a little bit, and you are telling them, no, it isn't possible, BW is dying. Seriously. Who are you to try and stifle some of the few who actually have the guts to stand up and do something about this game? I'm not trying to force you to believe in BW any more, but I don't understand why you are trying to stomp on ideas that are trying to help it. And if you're trolling, this is neither the time, nor the place. Anyway, my rant is over. Now I can actually say something useful (I hope). What I have gathered from Imbatoss' and Zarathrustra's posts, we are trying to get newer players into the game. This is indeed possible, I can attest to it happening on a small scale. I am from SC2GG (small casual community), and over the summer we tried to get some new players in. We managed to get about 15 people to join, (this in a community of less than 100 people, understand), some of whom had never played even the BW campaign. This was mainly from one commentator with about 2k subscribers, who we "advertised" with. So it is possible. How to get this on a large scale is the problem now. One way is word of mouth. Obviously the slowest and maybe least rewarding, but every little bit helps. Like Game and the ex-BW player in his class. Stuff like that. Every new player is a small victory. Zarathrustra's idea is probably the most likely for success, if more people watch BW they will play it, if only a little. The thing is, I don't think very many people will become "hooked" by this unless there is English commentary. Once they are in, they will watch Korean VODs as readily, but we need English commentary as a "hook". I only know of two commentators who do progaming regularly, Nukethestars and DejaVu119 (Sayle doesn't cast pro BW, does he?). This is a problem. We need more commentators. I had actually planned on commentating Proleague matches this season, but due to a heavy workload I am going to be reduced to probably following a single player. But this kind of thing is what we need more of. An idea I had is about these BarCraft things we keep hearing about. I mean, you have people across the world gathering in bars, sometimes 100+ people in a bar, cheering on some SC2 players when they could be watching BW progames which are in much more than my own opinion far better. We need to get in on those if we can. There's probably people here who have friends who go to those. Go with them, I know it will be torture (  ), do something. Or if you don't have friends, go and make friends and eventually get around to the subject of BW. "Hey guys, have any of you ever seen this guy named Flash play?" You get the picture. I know this is a long stretch, but hell if I care.Anyway, Imbatoss or whoever else does something, anything, let me know. I'll do my best to help out. Let's try to keep the better side of this discussion rolling. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
If I lived in korea, was younger and didn't have the same obligations I would have honestly try pursing progaming. However as of now, I can't really get games on iccup. I just play fish from time to time, usually on their sleep time so they have to play foreigners to find other "C" players . | ||
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Siz)Beggar
United States337 Posts
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tuho12345
4482 Posts
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TurboDreams
United States427 Posts
On September 27 2011 09:44 Siz)Beggar wrote: That guy siz)beggar aka talent has some potential ^^ | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 27 2011 07:37 TuElite wrote: [x] 4 months [x] 800$ [ ] earned a respective amount of cash flow Given the circumstances... these guys don't sit here and play BW. I've had Sziky and Ace and Heme etc just not show up for tournaments, and they haven't played in every defiler. The fact is, if they did, they would've placed in the top 3 in all of them respectively, and probably tripled the income from SC:BW. So for it to be a casual income in their respectively economically grave stricken countries. | ||
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Game
3191 Posts
On September 27 2011 08:35 Memnon wrote: One way is word of mouth. Obviously the slowest and maybe least rewarding, but every little bit helps. Like Game and the ex-BW player in his class. Stuff like that. Every new player is a small victory. I think you not only made me acknowledge by misunderstandings, but also made a great point in such a small amount of text. Only after reading that, I swear to god, I must be retarded because this just struck me as a concrete idea, did I realize that I'm just not satisfied with the current level because I saw BW in its prime. I'm really a dinosaur now I'm the old man in the family that talks about how great the country was and has more invaluable knowledge. This is not a good thing for me, because I have a huge zest for foreign BW still, as you might be able to tell. And then yes, every new player is a huge victory for foreign BW even if they aren't that great. | ||
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