EPTWhat's with all the hostility? - Page 21
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
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Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
I hope we can continue discussion more magnanimously in this thread from this point on. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49995 Posts
On July 29 2011 22:54 doubleupgradeobbies! wrote: I have actually suggested the solution to be simply clearer boundaries earlier. Why not make it clearer where there is to be no talking about BW or SC2, so that if we don't want to read about 1 topic we know where to stay away from. This way we can still share the same amenities but still go into each thread safe in the knowledge it's not filled with random crap about a topic we care nothing about. Or be prepared, knowing that the thread is in an area where this might happen. The idea of being together but separate appeals to me even if it may seem somewhat apartheidlike. all this for a bunch of lousy trolls(misinformed people)seems a bit too much,no? then again its just your opinion of how you could enjoy teamliquid... | ||
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ShadeR
Australia7535 Posts
On July 29 2011 22:56 BLinD-RawR wrote: all this for a bunch of lousy trolls(misinformed people)seems a bit too much,no? then again its just your opinion of how you could enjoy teamliquid... Yeah i don't think it's necessary, I don't believe there is any 'confusion'. The trolls that post stuff like "Graphics suck...", ".... should switch to SC2", "BW is dead.." know exactly where they are and what kinda of reaction they will get. Only thing i'd like is maybe if we could default TLPD to BW if we wish but really its a small annoyance i can live with. And tbh with TL being the premier Foreign Starcraft forum, the majority of the staff is preoccupied with or only focused on SC2 as they rightly should be as that is the direction that TL management is taking Teamliquid. All in all I'm happy with what we have BW section, and would just like to be left alone. | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
Often times though, what someone takes as "hostility" is just a perfectly valid opinion he strongly disagrees with. The only remedy for that is to be less sensitive. There will always be people with opposing opinions, people who don't like (or even openly dislike) or don't care about what you like and care about. That doesn't mean they are wrong and should shut up (as long as they're only posting about it in a relevant thread/discussion). | ||
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TheGlassface
United States612 Posts
On July 29 2011 22:52 BLinD-RawR wrote: yeah,but then the community news section would lose its meaning,no the community itself would lose its meaning if we forced ourselves to separate from the other parts. we have our place,and most us don't really care about any other parts of the forum. The community news used to be something I'd check very frequently. Very little of it has anything to do with BW anymore. Today, on the front page, there are 2 BW related articles. One speaking about the death of MBC and the other, the Jin AIr report. There are 19 SCII related. I also think that the community thing went a little by the wayside with the changes too. This topic, and countess posts mirroring the same ideas, proves that. The fact is, this site has become rather polarized. Honestly, there's already a precedent for this kind of thing. http://www.teamliquid.net/sc2/ It's almost the same thing as the main page, which cracks me up because I remember when that was the little blip on this site. I just wish I had more free time to write articles or edit the liquipedia or something to help out with things. | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
As I was done with FPS I looked for a new passion. Tried Dota, really disliked the scene (People in the StarCraft scene are saints compared to that scene) and eventually ended up on GG.net, which pointed towards TL. As a newbie to the BW scene I found a wealth of knowledge about the game on TL, but even better I found a rich history surrounding the game going back many years. As a history enthusiast I felt I hit pay-dirt and dove into all this information and had a great time reading and learning about Starleague's & bonjwa's and the people who build up the foreign scene. BoxeR and sAviOr are currently the players I'm researching as they both have very interesting stories. (http://boxerbiography.blogspot.com/ "Crazy as me" <- Must read). Now there is something I would like to add to this conversation, something that I dislike. As a new fan I've been very diligent with getting to know this scene called BW, but I get really annoyed when a TL member who joined middle 2010, around the release of SC2 and around the time I joined TL, goes on about BW and pretends to be Old School. Now I'm not discrediting the enthusiasm or zealousness toward BW this member shows, but I do find it a bit hypocritical when they share their vast knowledge of BW while they've been in the scene as long as I have. And yes, in my opinion, if you where truly a BW fan from way-back and with TL being at the center of the BW scene, your account should be older. So please stop pretending, your just as new to the scene as every SC2 player. Listen to the stories and wisdom of all the TL members that have been around since the old school BW days and stop pretending to be something you are not. I really dislike it when people try to ride the coat-tail of Old School fans, pretending to be one too. | ||
Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On July 29 2011 23:26 Rustug wrote: When the original StarCraft and StarCraft:BW was released I played both campaigns, but I never got into the online side of things because I was too heavily into competitive FPS gaming. FPS was my life. But as time moved on the FPS scene changed, as things do, and something new was added to the game... "PERKS". I really hate "PERKS" and they ruined the FPS scene for me. The ability of an FPS gamer should be about True Skill without enhancements (PERKS). Any add-on that brings you to a higher level, on par with the skilled FPS players, without having done the work/training is cheating to me. So I said my goodbye's and moved to greener pastures. As I was done with FPS I looked for a new passion. Tried Dota, really disliked the scene (People in the StarCraft scene are saints compared to that scene) and eventually ended up on GG.net, which pointed towards TL. As a newbie to the BW scene I found a wealth of knowledge about the game on TL, but even better I found a rich history surrounding the game going back many years. As a history enthusiast I felt I hit pay-dirt and dove into all this information and had a great time reading and learning about Starleague's & bonjwa's and the people who build up the foreign scene. BoxeR and sAviOr are currently the players I'm researching as they both have very interesting stories. (http://boxerbiography.blogspot.com/ "Crazy as me" <- Must read). Now there is something I would like to add to this conversation, something that I dislike. As a new fan I've been very diligent with getting to know this scene called BW, but I get really annoyed when a TL member who joined middle 2010, around the release of SC2 and around the time I joined TL, goes on about BW and pretends to be Old School. Now I'm not discrediting the enthusiasm or zealousness toward BW this member shows, but I do find it a bit hypocritical when they share their vast knowledge of BW while they've been in the scene as long as I have. And yes, in my opinion, if you where truly a BW fan from way-back and with TL being at the center of the BW scene, your account should be older. So please stop pretending, your just as new to the scene as every SC2 player. Listen to the stories and wisdom of all the TL members that have been around since the old school BW days and stop pretending to be something you are not. I really dislike it when people try to ride the coat-tail of Old School fans, pretending to be one too. Some of them might be PBUs, you never know. | ||
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Rustug
1488 Posts
Some might be indeed. | ||
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Hieros
United States83 Posts
Lurking is also a common phenomenon as well. You don't have to register to enjoy much of the content of this site. Thus the "joined" date need not have anything to do with when a poster started following the scene/availing themselves of the site's resources. | ||
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Achromic
773 Posts
On July 30 2011 00:14 Hieros wrote: Lurking is also a common phenomenon as well. You don't have to register to enjoy much of the content of this site. Thus the "joined" date need not have anything to do with when a poster started following the scene/availing themselves of the site's resources. I would have joined TL long time ago but I was like 13 and was just content by watching professional games on TV (When I still lived in Korea). Yeah, the join date is not an accurate indication. Well, unless the person joined last year. | ||
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Slakter
Sweden1947 Posts
On July 29 2011 23:26 Rustug wrote: When the original StarCraft and StarCraft:BW was released I played both campaigns, but I never got into the online side of things because I was too heavily into competitive FPS gaming. FPS was my life. But as time moved on the FPS scene changed, as things do, and something new was added to the game... "PERKS". I really hate "PERKS" and they ruined the FPS scene for me. The ability of an FPS gamer should be about True Skill without enhancements (PERKS). Any add-on that brings you to a higher level, on par with the skilled FPS players, without having done the work/training is cheating to me. So I said my goodbye's and moved to greener pastures. As I was done with FPS I looked for a new passion. Tried Dota, really disliked the scene (People in the StarCraft scene are saints compared to that scene) and eventually ended up on GG.net, which pointed towards TL. As a newbie to the BW scene I found a wealth of knowledge about the game on TL, but even better I found a rich history surrounding the game going back many years. As a history enthusiast I felt I hit pay-dirt and dove into all this information and had a great time reading and learning about Starleague's & bonjwa's and the people who build up the foreign scene. BoxeR and sAviOr are currently the players I'm researching as they both have very interesting stories. (http://boxerbiography.blogspot.com/ "Crazy as me" <- Must read). Now there is something I would like to add to this conversation, something that I dislike. As a new fan I've been very diligent with getting to know this scene called BW, but I get really annoyed when a TL member who joined middle 2010, around the release of SC2 and around the time I joined TL, goes on about BW and pretends to be Old School. Now I'm not discrediting the enthusiasm or zealousness toward BW this member shows, but I do find it a bit hypocritical when they share their vast knowledge of BW while they've been in the scene as long as I have. And yes, in my opinion, if you where truly a BW fan from way-back and with TL being at the center of the BW scene, your account should be older. So please stop pretending, your just as new to the scene as every SC2 player. Listen to the stories and wisdom of all the TL members that have been around since the old school BW days and stop pretending to be something you are not. I really dislike it when people try to ride the coat-tail of Old School fans, pretending to be one too. I´ve been registered to TL since 2009 I think but I´ve been in the scene since 2006/2007? Also, if people talk about thing that are true then why is it a problem that they joined the scene a bit later than most? As long as people dont talk bullshit about things they dont know anything about but think they do then there´s no problem, you just seem like a complete hipster to be honest. | ||
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everstarleague
China89 Posts
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Chef
10810 Posts
On July 29 2011 23:26 Rustug wrote: When the original StarCraft and StarCraft:BW was released I played both campaigns, but I never got into the online side of things because I was too heavily into competitive FPS gaming. FPS was my life. But as time moved on the FPS scene changed, as things do, and something new was added to the game... "PERKS". I really hate "PERKS" and they ruined the FPS scene for me. The ability of an FPS gamer should be about True Skill without enhancements (PERKS). Any add-on that brings you to a higher level, on par with the skilled FPS players, without having done the work/training is cheating to me. So I said my goodbye's and moved to greener pastures. As I was done with FPS I looked for a new passion. Tried Dota, really disliked the scene (People in the StarCraft scene are saints compared to that scene) and eventually ended up on GG.net, which pointed towards TL. As a newbie to the BW scene I found a wealth of knowledge about the game on TL, but even better I found a rich history surrounding the game going back many years. As a history enthusiast I felt I hit pay-dirt and dove into all this information and had a great time reading and learning about Starleague's & bonjwa's and the people who build up the foreign scene. BoxeR and sAviOr are currently the players I'm researching as they both have very interesting stories. (http://boxerbiography.blogspot.com/ "Crazy as me" <- Must read). Now there is something I would like to add to this conversation, something that I dislike. As a new fan I've been very diligent with getting to know this scene called BW, but I get really annoyed when a TL member who joined middle 2010, around the release of SC2 and around the time I joined TL, goes on about BW and pretends to be Old School. Now I'm not discrediting the enthusiasm or zealousness toward BW this member shows, but I do find it a bit hypocritical when they share their vast knowledge of BW while they've been in the scene as long as I have. And yes, in my opinion, if you where truly a BW fan from way-back and with TL being at the center of the BW scene, your account should be older. So please stop pretending, your just as new to the scene as every SC2 player. Listen to the stories and wisdom of all the TL members that have been around since the old school BW days and stop pretending to be something you are not. I really dislike it when people try to ride the coat-tail of Old School fans, pretending to be one too. Being a fan of the proscene (and the foreigner scene for that matter) doesn't mean you have to have been a member of TL. I followed the scene long before I ever joined or really knew much about TL. To me WGTour is much more nostalgic than Team Liquid. There was a long time when TL was just a forum that didn't really reach to be much more (not the way it does today). There were many sites I got VODs from before I knew about TL (and before youtube existed). TL loves to think of itself as the center of StarCraft for English speakers, and it's true that it's become that, but there's many reasonable alternatives and always have been. I wouldn't get too judgmental about people's join dates. Do you know what this site looked like in 2002 and 2003? Or in 2005, when I joined, for that matter? It wasn't much better than GosuGamers (a bit of a laughing stock these days), and if you wanted VODs that weren't torrents, there were many sites (come and gone) which they could be accessed. I guess what you're trying to say is that there are annoying people in the same way that there are people who suddenly start listening to a band and pretend they've listened to them since they started out a decade ago... But it's meaningless, because even if you had been a part of it since the beginning, it's not really something to be proud of. I stuck with StarCraft, but I jumped the ship of countless websites before I found Team Liquid. For my first year or two after registering I didn't really care what was happening on teamliquid either. You could almost say I joined in 2006 or 07, even though I was heavily involved with StarCraft that whole time. Who's to say that aren't a whole bunch of people who've been involved purely with commentating sites or map making sites that only discovered Team Liquid in 2010? Anyway, all that to say Team Liquid is one of the oldest clans in StarCraft lore, but it was awhile after that the site resembled anything like it is today (as far as being more than sclegacy, gosugamers, wgtour, staredit, etc). This post probably sounds like I disagree with you more than I actually do. I truly agree it's annoying when 50 people write "I thought you meant GiYoM!" in a blog titled "Grrr" when 90% of them didn't care about StarCraft when he was playing, but I also think the 10% of them who did don't need to derail a thread with the same stupid comments. People who've been around a long time and people who haven't alike should not be pretentious cunts. I watched Zerglee vs Grrr more than 100 times, but that didn't mean I felt some insatiable need to say 'HEY THAT REMINDS ME OF A PLAYER OF THE SAME NAME LOL' tl;dr: There's no justification for that behaviour, old school or not, it's always annoying. | ||
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Hieros
United States83 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94911 | ||
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tripper688
United States569 Posts
On July 29 2011 21:41 Blasterion wrote: Brood War players seems to get the idea of not harboring any respect for no one but other Brood War players, even those who play both games. and turned this thread into a SC2 hate thread over night. I have lost faith in the Brood War community That's an extremely loaded, generalized, and inaccurate comment that will only fan flames. It's the equivalent of BW loyalists claiming SC2 players are ignorant, unskilled and can't comprehend an RTS like BW. You're not helping anything with this post. On July 29 2011 22:05 Blasterion wrote: I think you can present a better argument than just screw you. In my quotes did you not see some of the things other people posted? are they not bitter elitist that shit on everything that is not Brood War? Actually no, while you have valid points in a few of your posts, quite a few others are taking issues with statements that really are not meant to be barbs at BW. I know it's a difficult concept but negative criticism =/= trolling =/= elitism. Read Intrigue's post. That has nothing to do with bitter elitism and he's not shitting on BW. I think you should at the very least differentiate between valid arguments and people stirring shit up for the sake of shitting on SC2. People have the right to express disappointment that the game which was supposed to take up the mantle of greatest RTS from BW failed to live up to expectations WITHIN THE BW FORUM. These people are not parading it around in SC2 general. There's a pretty big difference. It's like talk of progamers switching from BW. I'm sure many people here would be OK with a thread like that in SC2 General or something. Just not within the BW areas or in the MBC thread. On July 29 2011 22:21 Blasterion wrote: But do you not think the quote "We are hostile to SC2 because they troll us with their ignorance when we just want to play our own game" harbors a victim complex as well? No it doesn't because it actually happens on a much larger scale and it's responsible for at least some if not all of the antipathy towards SC2 chatter in the BW forums and streams. If you're provoking a group of people, even unknowingly, don't complain when there is some hostility. The way you interpret a lot of the posts here seem to gravitate to being extremely negative when it's not actually the case. I would say that is a bit of a victim complex playing out here. When people say SC2 people are trolling with their ignorance, that's not a victim complex. You cannot argue the fact that people make dumb SC2 posts about BW topics at a much higher rate than the other way around. On July 29 2011 22:37 Blasterion wrote: Where did you get that notion? No, I do not hate the Brood War community. But I do feel quite a few Brood War fans within the community can say some hurtful stuff when you play both games. I mean hey man, I hang out with Kibibit and ILOVEKITTENS. I keep all discussion of SC2 out of our conversations. I just think that while the SC2 community should be careful not say somethings that upset the Brood War community, the Brood War community can also give the respect of not upsetting their counter community The problem is, whether or not The Elephant in the Room upsets anyone, it's not really all that debatable. Just because one doesn't like it doesn't mean it's not a problem or reality. You said it yourself. You keep SC2 out of your conversations with your BW friends. Well...it really does seem like if people eased up on the SC2 commenting in BW threads, that would go a long way in making it easier for the BW loyalists less hostile and more respecting. Remember...just because you don't like a certain point, doesn't mean it was meant as a diss nor was it necessarily an attempt to troll. People celebrating the MBC thread with posts of "yay now xyz can join sc2" are being insensitive and ignorant. People in an SC2 thread talking about who they would want to see in SC2, not so much. Going into oGsMC's fan club to rave about Bisu and posting Vods of him owning MC at WCG would be disrespectful, elitist, and extremely BM trolling. Merely pointing out the skill gap between the two games ala Intrigue and imploring the SC2 community to take action to be better and more like BW, that is not. On July 29 2011 23:15 Talin wrote: This whole thread is overstressing an issue that really doesn't merit any sort of a focused discussion imo. For the most part, it's just a matter of moderation and eliminating posters that can't uphold the forum standards. Often times though, what someone takes as "hostility" is just a perfectly valid opinion he strongly disagrees with. The only remedy for that is to be less sensitive. There will always be people with opposing opinions, people who don't like (or even openly dislike) or don't care about what you like and care about. That doesn't mean they are wrong and should shut up (as long as they're only posting about it in a relevant thread/discussion). Pretty much that covers quite a bit of the hostility found in this thread. On July 30 2011 00:14 Hieros wrote: Lurking is also a common phenomenon as well. You don't have to register to enjoy much of the content of this site. Thus the "joined" date need not have anything to do with when a poster started following the scene/availing themselves of the site's resources. This. You don't need to be a member to read through reports, strategy, oggle NaDa's body, or use Liquipedia. Many people don't feel like commenting when they can just sit back and enjoy the show and only create the account when they feel like they want to join in the discussions. | ||
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On July 30 2011 00:58 Hieros wrote: Chef is just being modest about his old-school cred; he wrote the all-time best guide ever: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=94911 what i didn't know chef pioneered the stove T_T | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49995 Posts
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Sawamura
Malaysia7602 Posts
On July 30 2011 01:16 BLinD-RawR wrote: @chef,I honestly thought that Giyom blog was about Giyom and expressed my surprised that it was not,even though I didn't follow the scene during his time,I really wanted to know how one's experience of that time was. who is giyom @@ ? | ||
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49995 Posts
 Grrrr... | ||
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