Thoughts on winning? -The Ro8 is a Bo5, so just winning one game isn’t cause for great celebration, it’s just that I have a slightly higher chance of advancing now than my opponent.
You seem to be in a poor condition. -I got a cold recently, but it didn’t severely impact the game.
You were sniped by Horang2 in SPL. -I have nothing to say after I lost, I was just really angry at myself. I did what I should’ve most avoided in a key moment, and because of me, our SPL record this week is poor. Next week I need to focus more and get some wins for the team.
Did yesterday’s game affect today’s? -After only a day, playing the same race on the same map, really has its effects. I tried to focus and play well. When trying to expand I was harassed, but the Drone only got down to red health and didn’t die, so I don’t think I was behind. I was confident that my macro is better than my opponents.
Did the SPL loss affect anything else? -Wins and losses are both normal. I kept trying to adjust my mindset. But even though I say this, I’m sure my loss impacted my fans a lot [laugh]
Both MSL Ro16 and Ro8 opponents are newcomers from Samsung. -A lot of people might say it’s because I have good luck, but since it was matched according to rankings, I don’t have much to say. No matter how lucky or unlucky I am, I will never think about the luck in the match-ups. I’ve advanced from harsher match-ups before, and I’ve advanced from easier match-ups before. I will use today’s momentum and advance to the Ro4 with ease.
Last words? -Recently there have been a lot of games, but I still hope to get good results in all the remaining games. I hope my teammates and I can work together to get a good result in SPL.
Thoughts on winning? -After winning the first game today, next week I’ll have an advantage. I will have a little less pressure than Zero, and it’ll be good that I can play how I want next week.
Was today’s mindgame prepared? -Depends on my opponent’s position, I knew if it’s cross positions so I can play mindgames. So after I confirmed it was cross positions, I used the mindgames that I practiced. Overlord scouting is a bit later in cross positions, so I had a high chance of success. Of course, if you find out earlier it’s easy to defend [laugh] For today’s game, I prepared strategies for every spawn position.
You’ve reclaimed some momentum recently. -It’s too early to say that. I still want to raise my SPL win count, but haven’t been successful. I’m sorry to the head and assistant coaches. Also, I’m sorry to the fans. I can only try to play more exciting games later. Every time the head coach comes to the individual leagues, I lose, so recently the head coach stopped coming. He didn’t come today either [laugh]
Thoughts on next week’s games? -Zero and I have a good relationship, so there was no pressure at all in today’s game and we had a good chat. Out of the two of us, one can make Ro4, and we both have the seed status from Ro8, so we’re both prepared to play openly. But even so, I feel a bit bad after winning [laugh] But, it’s only one game, and Zero has played very well in SPL. Next week we have four more games to play, I trust he’ll forget about today’s loss. I need to not be careless, and I think I can get a good result.
Thoughts on winning? -After winning the first game, more or less there’s a reduction of stress. Today’s win abruptly reduced a lot of a my pressure [laugh]
This is the only matchup in the Ro8 between two previous champions. You won last time in SPL too. -I’m very confident. Hydra is a player who likes to go on the offensive, and last time I won because I successfully defended the opponent’s Mutalisks. Today, I got an advantage early, so I worked hard to convert the advantage to a win.
Was today’s strategy tailored against Hydra? -It wasn’t specifically tailored, I just wanted to give him some pressure early before switching to macro. But I didn’t think it’d get such a good result, and allowed the rest of the game to be easy.
Hydra is the defending champion, thoughts on playing him? -I’ve slumped for too long, and people saying it’s a battle of the champions are making me embarrassed [laugh] I approached today’s game with the mindset as if it was my first MSL.
You’ll finish the rest of the games next week. -Even though I won game 1, it’s possible to lose next week. Today’s win has passed, I will treat next week’s games as the first games.
You haven’t played a Bo5 in a while, was it difficult practicing? -I prepared a lot, and felt good. I will work hard to make the Ro4.
Last words? -Thanks to my teammates who helped me practice like Roro. If I make the Ro4 next week I will definitely treat to a meal.
Thoughts on winning the first game? -I’m glad to have the high ground on the road to the Ro4. I need to prepare a lot for next week’s games too, I must win.
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11. -It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
How did you scout Leta’s opening? -Today, to some degree, I predicted his opening. I feel like sometimes, Terrans playing against me will use the fact that I only scout the natural and put down the CC at the high ground. Today I predicted it, and Leta-hyung was using this strategy [laugh]
Are you confident in the next game too? -I’m very confident in TvT. Also, the game isn’t on Thursday but on Saturday, so I have more time to prepare. Before that we have to play Woongjing in SPL. We must win to catch up to SKT.
Woongjing has strong Zergs, do you have a strategy against Queens? -I practice a lot of with Woongjin Zergs, and I often meet Queens. There might not be a solution, I can only wait and see [laugh]
Last words? -Even though Barracks and Sunny had today off, they still helped me practice, I want to thank them. I also want to thank Coach Hery who has always looked after me. Also, a lot of people on the team got sick recently, it’s the changing seasons time, everyone needs to be careful not to get a cold.
“Any theoretical remarks offered by a translator are bound to be an apology for his failures. Obviously no sane translator can allow himself to dream of success. He asks only for the best possible failure.” –John Ciardi
Flash wrote: -It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
On May 13 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Woongjing has strong Zergs, do you have a strategy against Queens? -I practice a lot of with Woongjin Zergs, and I often meet Queens. There might not be a solution, I can only wait and see [laugh]
On May 13 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Woongjing has strong Zergs, do you have a strategy against Queens? -I practice a lot of with Woongjin Zergs, and I often meet Queens. There might not be a solution, I can only wait and see [laugh]
Flash's answer is truly the best: "It's hard for me to put my scouting pattern into words, so you mere mortals would understand it."
Well, Flash erased the last tiny bit of doubt that I have had in my mind, that he might not be a genius (in the true sense of the word), a long time ago.
On May 13 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Woongjing has strong Zergs, do you have a strategy against Queens? -I practice a lot of with Woongjin Zergs, and I often meet Queens. There might not be a solution, I can only wait and see [laugh]
DUN DUN DUNNN..
He's just hiding. He probably beat a few of them into a slump.
On May 13 2011 06:23 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: Woongjing has strong Zergs, do you have a strategy against Queens? -I practice a lot of with Woongjin Zergs, and I often meet Queens. There might not be a solution, I can only wait and see [laugh]
DUN DUN DUNNN..
In Chinese translation it's "There might or might not be a solution, we shall wait and see".
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
On May 13 2011 08:14 prototype. wrote: jaedong definitely looks more awesome with dyed hair
Yeah, dyed hair does wonders in keeping him to look young. ~_~
On June 27 2009 16:18 NeverGG wrote: This was a lovely and fun photo shoot on a gloriously sunny afternoon. Lee Jaedong agreed to do the whole shoot using English and it was a nice change to communicate with him like this. I explained to him that the foreign communities fans like his 'tough' and 'masculine.' image in opposition to the 'cuter' style of his team mates Backho and Lomo.
Our concept was to make it as stylised as possible - very clean and with the idea of a 'fighter' in mind. Jaedong was as always a joy to work with. (When I told him about how the foreign fans view him he said 'I'm cute!' and I assured him that it is the case as well.)
That might be an idea as to what he meant, not sure about teh 1oclock issue though.. I guess we'll have to have Ver come translate Flash into a thought process for mortals haha
Disgusting onesided ZvP if I ever saw one, well played by the Dong, but you could tell by that Grape simply couldn't handle the pressure, the Dong is too intimidating for him.
Thanks for the interviews and get well soon Jaedong!
Also Mind his face is kind of the face of an expressionless troll.
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
Maybe he thinks it makes a difference. Maybe it's the difference between the Bunker at the natural getting up and not? I don't know either, definitely just speculating here, and could definitely be completely wrong.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
Maybe he thinks it makes a difference. Maybe it's the difference between the Bunker at the natural getting up and not? I don't know either, definitely just speculating here, and could definitely be completely wrong.
He got his scv inside the base then pretend he's scouting normally with the scv while waiting for his marines to get closer to the base, so I still think it doesn't matter. You're right, we're just speculating here so we both could be completely wrong.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
Maybe he thinks it makes a difference. Maybe it's the difference between the Bunker at the natural getting up and not? I don't know either, definitely just speculating here, and could definitely be completely wrong.
He got his scv inside the base then pretend he's scouting normally with the scv while waiting for his marines to get closer to the base, so I still think it doesn't matter. You're right, we're just speculating here so we both could be completely wrong.
Well, my point is that if Leta decided to do some sort of CC Bunker expand at the natural, the timing might have mattered. But yeah, who knows?
I like this interview. It is typical in a way: Jaedong with his force, Flash with his intelligence and understanding. They are like the ying and yang, the Karpov and Kasparov of Starcraft.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
Thanks for pointing out the detail about the marine scouting 1's natural. (I hadn't actually watched the game, so I didn't know about that).
As for what Flash said about "If it were 7, it would have been bad", I agree with you that it means if Leta were at 7 o'clock (and hadn't expanded to the natural), but Flash knew that, and he still thought it was worthwhile to scout the way he did. I was just trying to explain why it might have been worthwhile.
As for whether 4-5 seconds makes much of a difference, when it comes to a bunker rush, it can potentially make all the difference. You do seem to be right that it wouldn't have mattered in this scenario, but maybe it would have made the difference in a different situation, for instance if Leta were walling off, or perhaps if he were expanding to the natural with a bunker, as darktreb suggested.
In fact, maybe it was that latter scenario that Flash had in mind when he said "if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy"--I'd thought that that meant 7's natural, but looking at it again, it sounds more like he meant 11's natural. Maybe he would have used his scout to harass the SCV building the CC at the natural. With Flash's build, he had time to do that at all three naturals. Maybe that was the key timing that he cut corners for. Rereading what Flash said, I think that that actually fits best into his words, "If Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing."
TL;DR: You guys make good points, and on looking at the VOD and rereading Flash's words, I think that perhaps I was wrong the first time, and the key point of Flash's scouting pattern was to hit all three naturals in time to catch a 14 CC being built at the natural (rather than to scout three naturals + a main a few seconds earlier). All still kinda speculative though.
Here's the VOD, in case anyone wants to try analyzing it themselves.
On May 13 2011 08:11 qrs wrote: Thanks for the translations!
You only scouted the nat at 7 but scouted the high ground in 11.
-It’s hard to explain this difficult timing in words. I only scouted it after calculating it. If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11. But if Leta-hyung mined at the natural I had a different strategy. That’s the key point of this timing, but it’s hard to explain this scouting in words [laugh] But, I trust one day everyone will understand this kind of timing and scouting [T/N: WTF lol]
I also found Flash's explanation of his scouting pattern a bit bemusing, not to say amusing. Here's my guess about what he meant.
Leta might have been at 7 o' clock or he might have been at 11 o' clock. Also, he might have built his CC in the natural or he might have built his CC (or other buildings instead) in his main. There wasn't enough time to scout for all of these possibilities in a timely fashion, so Flash had to triage.
Flash used his time to scout three of the four possibilities: 7 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock natural, 11 o' clock main. It's true that if Leta had been building at 7 o' clock's main, Flash would have been in trouble. Still it paid for him to scout 7 o' clock's natural first because on the one hand he still had enough time to scout 11 o'clock fully in time and on the other hand, if Leta had been at 7 o' clock and decided to drop a CC in his natural, Flash would have scouted that and been able to react to that too. As for why he scouted 7 before 11 and not vice versa, I believe that this was the more efficient scouting pattern on this map--7's natural is on the way up from where Flash was at 4:30.
TL;DR: Flash's scouting pattern allowed him to scout 3/4 possibilities in time to react accordingly. Had he gone straight to 11 or had he fully scouted 7, he would only have had time to scout for 2/4 possibilities in time to properly react to them.
Just a guess, though.
Edit: Here's the picture of the map from TLPD: There's also a spawning position at 1, which I didn't account for at all, so when I talk about 2/4 and 3/4 I should really be talking about 2/6 and 3/6, I suppose.
Anyway, you can see from the map that this scouting pattern was the only way for Flash to scout 3 locations (counting naturals and mains separately) as quickly as he did. From Flash's starting location in the bottom left, the closest set of natural + main is 7's natural + 11's main (going through 11's natural, naturally).
Edit 2: actually on closer look, it seems like Flash could have equally well scouted 1's natural before 11's main. I'm not sure whether Flash had a reason for scouting 7 rather than 1 or whether that choice was a toss-up (or whether I'm totally off-base with all of this, of course).
lol This doesn't make any sense at all(to me). Flash scouted the 7 natural then he went scouting the 11 natural and main while a marine he just made scouted the 1 natural and the scv came into the 11 main and the marine head straight for the top left.
The thing is, Flash would be in a disadvantage if Leta was in the 7 main because of his scouting. Leta would have made at least 2 marines before the scv came back to 7 if leta was at the 7 main building CC inbase. At least, I think what flash meant when he said "If it was 7 it would’ve been bad, but I was lucky it was 11" because Leta would have a big BO advantage over Flash had he not got bunker rush.
Basically if Leta went CC first (which is what Flash was banking on), there were 6 possibilities - Leta could have been in any of the three positions, and either built his CC in base or at the natural. The way Flash scouted, he would have caught Leta in time in 5 of these 6 possibilities, because the Marine would go all the way into 1 o'clock main, and the SCV would go all the way into 11 o'clock main. If the SCV goes all the way into 7 o'clock main (where Flash scouted first), he might have been later to reach 11 o'clock entirely, and thus only cover 4 of 6 possibilities.
Making into the 11 o'clock 4-5 second later doesn't make much of a difference, the big difference would be the time for the scv to come back to the 7 o'clock main if leta was in that main. To me "If it was 7 it would've been bad" means if leta was at 7 o'clock.
Maybe he thinks it makes a difference. Maybe it's the difference between the Bunker at the natural getting up and not? I don't know either, definitely just speculating here, and could definitely be completely wrong.
He got his scv inside the base then pretend he's scouting normally with the scv while waiting for his marines to get closer to the base, so I still think it doesn't matter. You're right, we're just speculating here so we both could be completely wrong.
Well, my point is that if Leta decided to do some sort of CC Bunker expand at the natural, the timing might have mattered. But yeah, who knows?
You need to repeat your point in that last statement to make it clear to me. "CC bunker expand at the natural", would that be putting the CC at the natural or putting the bunker at the natural before lifting the CC there?
It's clear to me what Flash meant when he said 7 o'clock would've been bad - he sent his first marine to 1 o'clock. That means Flash would have been a marine short at the timing he chose to employ - that marine simply would not have been able to regroup in time with the rest. In that case, he certainly would not have been able to force his way into the main like he did, seeing as Leta would've then been only 1 marine short as opposed to 2.
Lol how many times can they ask him about losing to Horang2, it almost seemed like they were trying to make him feel bad. "Horang2 has a less than 50% win rate vs Zerg and plays the worst vs Zerg. What are your thoughts on losing to him?"
Hi. Im just starting to learn about BW in korea. How is it? What are the tournaments? What is MSL? Where can I learn more about BW progaming scene in general. I thought it was just like a minor isolated event, but it looks big. Thanks for answering. No troll pls
On May 13 2011 14:38 hot_bed wrote: Hi. Im just starting to learn about BW in korea. How is it? What are the tournaments? What is MSL? Where can I learn more about BW progaming scene in general. I thought it was just like a minor isolated event, but it looks big. Thanks for answering. No troll pls
I don't think this is what flash said, but if you scout the nat of first base, and the nat and main of another base, there is a specific timing he hits. If he scouts the nat and main of the first base, and the nat ( and later main) of another base, then he lost his timing, because scouting the main of the first base will mean you have double back (across some terrain, the ramp, and the nat.)
Damn, Calm had something prepared for all spawning points, brain zerg indeed. flash's scouting technique is too deep for me lol my sense of timing is pretty weak
On May 13 2011 14:50 Release wrote: I don't think this is what flash said, but if you scout the nat of first base, and the nat and main of another base, there is a specific timing he hits. If he scouts the nat and main of the first base, and the nat ( and later main) of another base, then he lost his timing, because scouting the main of the first base will mean you have double back (across some terrain, the ramp, and the nat.)
Personally, i feel this is a bit risky.
I agree that this seems to be what he means. Whichever base he scouts first, be it 1 or 7, he will only scout the nat in case of a 14CC built on the nat itself. The base across his, he will scout both nat and main. Maybe at that particular timing, he can make a crucial decision. Of course this is all speculation and I'm just as confused as everyone else is haha.
It's a good thing for Flash that these games are played in a stadium where everything is monitored. I'm pretty sure Flash would never be allowed to participate in online tournaments since pretty much everyone would think he's a maphacker.
On May 13 2011 16:42 DarkMatter_ wrote: It's a good thing for Flash that these games are played in a stadium where everything is monitored. I'm pretty sure Flash would never be allowed to participate in online tournaments since pretty much everyone would think he's a maphacker.
On May 13 2011 16:42 DarkMatter_ wrote: It's a good thing for Flash that these games are played in a stadium where everything is monitored. I'm pretty sure Flash would never be allowed to participate in online tournaments since pretty much everyone would think he's a maphacker.
So true, the man is a beast!
Honestly if Flash wasn't such a noticeably devoted and good natured guy, I would totally be calling out cheater
On May 13 2011 16:10 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: lol @ flash's scouting, this reminds me of the time where he randomly scanned right on top of 2 stop-lurkers.
Or the time he scanned the right spot for bisu's fleet beacon?
On May 13 2011 17:26 Holgerius wrote: Ya, he does things sometimes that seriously makes you consider the option that he's found a way to cheat (earhacking or similar). He's amazing.
i bet his new teeth can pick up signals. you heard it from lanius first
I have wondered quite a few times if Flash may just have exceptional good hearing and simply hears what the commentators say most of the the time.
But it is probably more likely that he is just a genius. I have lost track of how many times in tvz he will scan the zergs third the exact moment where the drone is starting the hatchery, and there are way more examples like this (random vultures running into places where just at the very moment hydras are picked up by overlords etc.) It just seems that he "knows" time. Based on what he sees ans what he builds je just knows what must be happening on the map at the very moment.
On May 13 2011 19:53 Malinor wrote: I have wondered quite a few times if Flash may just have exceptional good hearing and simply hears what the commentators say most of the the time.
But it is probably more likely that he is just a genius. I have lost track of how many times in tvz he will scan the zergs third the exact moment where the drone is starting the hatchery, and there are way more examples like this (random vultures running into places where just at the very moment hydras are picked up by overlords etc.) It just seems that he "knows" time. Based on what he sees ans what he builds je just knows what must be happening on the map at the very moment.
Not the case, I watched the VODS, there is no way, the commentators didn't even go nuts until Flash his SCV almost reached Leta his Nat/Main.
lol yeah Flash is inhuman in many ways. But he was only lucky that Leta was at 9. -__-;; No game sens in the world lets you know your opponents spawn location before seeing any unit.
Rather he would have been unlucky if he was at 7, since he was going to scout the mains @ 9 and 12. Or 10 and 1, or what ever
On May 13 2011 16:15 Caladbolg wrote: That was vs Effort right? Such maphack.
Err, "leading" marines with mutas into waiting stop lurkers is super common zvt.
The specific instance of 2 stop lurkers that were well-planted being randomly (or purposefully) scanned and killed happened, if I remember correctly, in the 2nd game of the 1st Korean Air OSL
On May 13 2011 19:53 Malinor wrote: I have wondered quite a few times if Flash may just have exceptional good hearing and simply hears what the commentators say most of the the time.
But it is probably more likely that he is just a genius. I have lost track of how many times in tvz he will scan the zergs third the exact moment where the drone is starting the hatchery, and there are way more examples like this (random vultures running into places where just at the very moment hydras are picked up by overlords etc.) It just seems that he "knows" time. Based on what he sees ans what he builds je just knows what must be happening on the map at the very moment.
Not the case, I watched the VODS, there is no way, the commentators didn't even go nuts until Flash his SCV almost reached Leta his Nat/Main.
and you understand korean? not that i do, but the commentators could be saying "oh flash just scouted the wrong direction, now he's scouting in the right direction"
On May 13 2011 19:53 Malinor wrote: I have wondered quite a few times if Flash may just have exceptional good hearing and simply hears what the commentators say most of the the time.
Haha I've thought of this too, but the problem is that it doesn't explain any of the other starsense things. Scouting might be possible because the set is relatively quiet, but how do you know in the middle of a game while macro & micro & etc. what exactly the crowd & commentators are saying?
Also, I find it hard to believe that someone with such rare and insane skills happens to also have insanely better hearing than any other progamer. I'm sure the chances of that are seriously low.
On May 13 2011 19:53 Malinor wrote: I have wondered quite a few times if Flash may just have exceptional good hearing and simply hears what the commentators say most of the the time.
But it is probably more likely that he is just a genius. I have lost track of how many times in tvz he will scan the zergs third the exact moment where the drone is starting the hatchery, and there are way more examples like this (random vultures running into places where just at the very moment hydras are picked up by overlords etc.) It just seems that he "knows" time. Based on what he sees ans what he builds je just knows what must be happening on the map at the very moment.
Not the case, I watched the VODS, there is no way, the commentators didn't even go nuts until Flash his SCV almost reached Leta his Nat/Main.
and you understand korean? not that i do, but the commentators could be saying "oh flash just scouted the wrong direction, now he's scouting in the right direction"
Nah, not that , I meant that I don't think the sound of their voices would ever penetrate that booth, the volume was just too low.
If he was shouting plaaayguuuu then I would understand that Flash might hear it.
unless he has a build in sound magnifier in his ears.
when you're actually sitting in the crowd, the commentators aren't that loud. Actually listening to VODs their voices are much louder in comparison. Plus, I'm pretty sure their earphones MUST be on max volume, then they have the soundproof headphones as well, plus the soundproof booth.
Still, I'm curious if that has happened in recent BW history. Would the Koreans have the balls to fess up to it like Jinro did?
EPT
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Flash 
