EPTWho's hot? Bisu's not. - Page 2
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Vortok
United States830 Posts
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infinitestory
United States4053 Posts
Players that have low gaps can be anybody - players currently peaking (e.g. Jaedong), players who are extremely consistent (e.g. Light), players who are on the rise for the first time (e.g. Soulkey), or usually mediocre players who are on a probably luck-based string of wins (e.g. Hydra) Players with large gaps could be players who moved to ACE, players who are slumping (e.g. BaBy), or players who are rising but nowhere near their first peaks (will talk about these). Soulkey is undoubtedly beginning his first peak. Is he "on the rise?" Definitely. Jaedong is peaking. Is he "on the rise?" I wouldn't really say so, but he is doing very well. On the other hand, BeSt is listed on the list of players with biggest gaps despite having his recent game list flooded with W's. The only reason BeSt has such a huge gap is because his first peak was much higher. Hydra and Tempest have low gaps, but their ELOs are low enough that I wouldn't even say they are peaking spectacularly. They have been doing well, no doubt, but that's just a bit better than the mediocre they usually play. Is BaBy past his peak, never to return? He's at the bottom of the list, right? I feel like Baby, however, will find his rainbow socks. How well does Bisu have to play in order to be at the top of that list? He needs to suddenly become as good as Flash, as Jaedong. Is that possible? I don't think so. Can he still be an above average player? I don't doubt it. I considered removing my T1 tag just to avoid any possible anti-fanboy retaliation for this post. But I figured I would just post and deal with any reactions. I don't find this post biased, all I am saying is you should examine closely what your statistical method actually tells you. I would suggest comparing current ELO to ELO from 2 months ago to determine who is "rising." | ||
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_romantic
United States455 Posts
On August 19 2010 16:13 infinitestory wrote: I believe this method has a flaw in discerning "resurgent" players - ones that are playing well after a slump or past their peak - and that flaw is that it simply doesn't say enough specifically. Players that have low gaps can be anybody - players currently peaking (e.g. Jaedong), players who are extremely consistent (e.g. Light), players who are on the rise for the first time (e.g. Soulkey), or usually mediocre players who are on a probably luck-based string of wins (e.g. Hydra) Players with large gaps could be players who moved to ACE, players who are slumping (e.g. BaBy), or players who are rising but nowhere near their first peaks (will talk about these). Soulkey is undoubtedly beginning his first peak. Is he "on the rise?" Definitely. Jaedong is peaking. Is he "on the rise?" I wouldn't really say so, but he is doing very well. On the other hand, BeSt is listed on the list of players with biggest gaps despite having his recent game list flooded with W's. The only reason BeSt has such a huge gap is because his first peak was much higher. Hydra and Tempest have low gaps, but their ELOs are low enough that I wouldn't even say they are peaking spectacularly. They have been doing well, no doubt, but that's just a bit better than the mediocre they usually play. Is BaBy past his peak, never to return? He's at the bottom of the list, right? I feel like Baby, however, will find his rainbow socks. How well does Bisu have to play in order to be at the top of that list? He needs to suddenly become as good as Flash, as Jaedong. Is that possible? I don't think so. Can he still be an above average player? I don't doubt it. I considered removing my T1 tag just to avoid any possible anti-fanboy retaliation for this post. But I figured I would just post and deal with any reactions. I don't find this post biased, all I am saying is you should examine closely what your statistical method actually tells you. I would suggest comparing current ELO to ELO from 2 months ago to determine who is "rising." The point of the OP was to point out that it is pointless and utterly retarded to start talking about Bisu as if he was still a "great" player. He isn't. He's merely good, a good proleaguer, a consistent starleaguer, and that's it. I wish the TL ELO counter had a way to start counting back in months, too. | ||
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prototype.
Canada4189 Posts
On August 19 2010 15:46 l0st_romantic wrote: ID Team ELO Peak Gap? Soulkey Stars 2116 2117 1 Tempest KT 2123 2126 3 free Stars 2227 2238 11 RorO FOX 2188 2199 11 Hydra CJ 2097 2108 11 Stats KT 2168 2181 13 Horang2 hite 2139 2153 14 Light MBC 2230 2245 15 Jaedong OZ 2347 2365 18 While most of them are relatively unknown, it is obvious that each of these players is up and coming. This entire list is a bunch of oldies except for soulkey and stats so I dunno what you're talking about =.= | ||
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jon arbuckle
Canada443 Posts
On August 19 2010 16:10 Lightwip wrote: Do you realize how annoying it is to be a protoss fan? Zerg have had plenty of successful players, including July, Savior(who?) and Jaedong. Imagine if instead of July, it was Kingdom who was almost good enough to beat oov, and Nal_ra was the bonjwa rather than savior. Then Jaedong managed to dethrone this bonjwa and for once the zerg would have a chance to shine, only to find that their star slumps hard, and Bisu is the consistent one who slumps for like 5 seconds after some BS runs. So the only good players end up being Yellow(silver) and inconsistent Jaedong, and after 3 years, it looks like no other star has come about, while free/best etc become consistently ownage players for a long period of time. You would think of Jaedong in the same way. Because honestly, toss never had anyone other than Stork the Silver and Bisu the slumper to represent their race as anything other than inferior. Fanboy attitude is perfectly acceptable IMO. /end rant. Well spoken. I've always thought this must be really frustrating. Even as a Zerg, I was really hoping for Movie and Snow to pick up where the Dragons left off and showcase some dominant Protoss play. Movie has sublime sair/reaver v. Z when he wants to demonstrate it, and that Snow v. Flash PL game on Fighting Spirit was absolutely sublime. But this seems to have hit a rough patch for now. | ||
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Ciryandor
United States3735 Posts
Edit: When I first opened this thread I actually thought it was a thread that Bisu isn't as good-looking as people thought he is. XD That could be an excellent topic for discussion too. *snickers* | ||
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prototype.
Canada4189 Posts
I'd be more convinced that you actually think this way if you made this thread while he was still in the ro16 of both starleagues and wcg. But now it just seems like you want attention. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
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zobz
Canada2175 Posts
I really do agree though, on the main point. Bisu fan though i am, he's clearly not found whatever it is he lost yet, because there's very little fire in his eyes right now, or anything remarkable in his attitude. His recent losses are getting to him too easily, and he's showing nothing so far of determination to break through. He just looks depressed. Hopefully he's on his way there though, in the long run. | ||
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Brad
2754 Posts
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Lightwip
United States5497 Posts
On August 19 2010 16:36 zobz wrote:Bisu fan though i am, he's clearly not found whatever it is he lost yet, because there's very little fire in his eyes right now, or anything remarkable in his attitude. His recent losses are getting to him too easily, and he's showing nothing so far of determination to break through. He just looks depressed. Hopefully he's on his way there though, in the long run. But a few key losses could be what it takes to snap someone out of a period of sucking. I know that almost losing to an E terran(if not for mine daebak) simply because I played bad after dropping from D+ to low D helped me realize that I needed to pull my shit together. It's probably the same for progamers(as long as they stay confident, or else it could just be a slump). | ||
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blue_arrow
1971 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
am really disappointed FUCK IT! his performance in PL play off is WAY better... once we thought he was fully came back despite of the slump in PvT vs Sea... apparently he was not coming back T__T | ||
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aimaimaim
Philippines2167 Posts
most of the players in your list are at least in the same year where bisu started his televised games .. wtf are you talking about that free us a young player in the scene?? + Show Spoiler + not been a fan of him since he december 2009 .. Hyuk all the way .. im a fan if you are delivering games that are fun to watch, may that be a win/lose | ||
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ci_esteban
United States217 Posts
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MoRe_mInErAls
Canada1210 Posts
 sAviOr has won the rivalry. He is a greater and more accomplished Starcraft player than  Bisu can ever be. | ||
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Yxes2211
United States1587 Posts
I really hope u truly resurge Bisu but from your interviews it feels like you're not particularly hungry for another title. Flash and Jaedong want to go down as the best rivalry so they have a deep seeded desire to succeed, I just don't see that with my man Bisu... Hope u come back Bisu but I'm not holding my breath D: | ||
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Marl
United States692 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + please do it free!! | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On August 19 2010 16:54 NB wrote: FUCK IT! his performance in PL play off is WAY better... once we thought he was fully came back despite of the slump in PvT vs Sea... apparently he was not coming back T__T there's thin line between success and TL shouting SLUMP as we also know from JD and Flash example. Had Bisu defended that hydra all-in it would have been different story. | ||
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PineappleLumpsToss
New Zealand2434 Posts
Who knows if KTY will ever get back to where he was. Chances are he probably won't. Regardless, you can't take away what he has achieved, and how important he is, and has been to the Toss race (and its supporters). So what if Bisu fans were prematurely lauding his comeback. Blind optimism/faith is exactly what being a fan is all about!!! | ||
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