• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:25
CEST 13:25
KST 20:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers19Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid25
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Maestros of the Game 2 announced 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers INu's Battles#14 <BO.9 2Matches> GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
Leta's ASL S21 Ro.16 review FlaSh: This Will Be My Final ASL【ASL S21 Ro.16】 BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 General Discussion BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group D [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1751 users

Who's hot? Bisu's not. - Page 2

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 21 22 23 Next All
Vortok
Profile Joined December 2009
United States830 Posts
August 19 2010 07:12 GMT
#21
As a Toss fan that got into watching pro-BW super late, Bisu was one of the first "good" Protoss I was exposed to (him and Stork, but Stork is a baller no matter how he plays ingame). It's a bit frustrating to see him doing so poorly compared to what he's capable of and losing to people he should be able to crush. Who knows if he'll ever climb back up, just have to keep watching to find out, I suppose.
infinitestory
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4053 Posts
August 19 2010 07:13 GMT
#22
I believe this method has a flaw in discerning "resurgent" players - ones that are playing well after a slump or past their peak - and that flaw is that it simply doesn't say enough specifically.
Players that have low gaps can be anybody - players currently peaking (e.g. Jaedong), players who are extremely consistent (e.g. Light), players who are on the rise for the first time (e.g. Soulkey), or usually mediocre players who are on a probably luck-based string of wins (e.g. Hydra)
Players with large gaps could be players who moved to ACE, players who are slumping (e.g. BaBy), or players who are rising but nowhere near their first peaks (will talk about these).

Soulkey is undoubtedly beginning his first peak. Is he "on the rise?" Definitely. Jaedong is peaking. Is he "on the rise?" I wouldn't really say so, but he is doing very well.

On the other hand, BeSt is listed on the list of players with biggest gaps despite having his recent game list flooded with W's. The only reason BeSt has such a huge gap is because his first peak was much higher.

Hydra and Tempest have low gaps, but their ELOs are low enough that I wouldn't even say they are peaking spectacularly. They have been doing well, no doubt, but that's just a bit better than the mediocre they usually play.

Is BaBy past his peak, never to return? He's at the bottom of the list, right? I feel like Baby, however, will find his rainbow socks.

How well does Bisu have to play in order to be at the top of that list? He needs to suddenly become as good as Flash, as Jaedong. Is that possible? I don't think so. Can he still be an above average player? I don't doubt it.

I considered removing my T1 tag just to avoid any possible anti-fanboy retaliation for this post. But I figured I would just post and deal with any reactions. I don't find this post biased, all I am saying is you should examine closely what your statistical method actually tells you. I would suggest comparing current ELO to ELO from 2 months ago to determine who is "rising."
Translator:3
_romantic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States455 Posts
August 19 2010 07:18 GMT
#23
On August 19 2010 16:13 infinitestory wrote:
I believe this method has a flaw in discerning "resurgent" players - ones that are playing well after a slump or past their peak - and that flaw is that it simply doesn't say enough specifically.
Players that have low gaps can be anybody - players currently peaking (e.g. Jaedong), players who are extremely consistent (e.g. Light), players who are on the rise for the first time (e.g. Soulkey), or usually mediocre players who are on a probably luck-based string of wins (e.g. Hydra)
Players with large gaps could be players who moved to ACE, players who are slumping (e.g. BaBy), or players who are rising but nowhere near their first peaks (will talk about these).

Soulkey is undoubtedly beginning his first peak. Is he "on the rise?" Definitely. Jaedong is peaking. Is he "on the rise?" I wouldn't really say so, but he is doing very well.

On the other hand, BeSt is listed on the list of players with biggest gaps despite having his recent game list flooded with W's. The only reason BeSt has such a huge gap is because his first peak was much higher.

Hydra and Tempest have low gaps, but their ELOs are low enough that I wouldn't even say they are peaking spectacularly. They have been doing well, no doubt, but that's just a bit better than the mediocre they usually play.

Is BaBy past his peak, never to return? He's at the bottom of the list, right? I feel like Baby, however, will find his rainbow socks.

How well does Bisu have to play in order to be at the top of that list? He needs to suddenly become as good as Flash, as Jaedong. Is that possible? I don't think so. Can he still be an above average player? I don't doubt it.

I considered removing my T1 tag just to avoid any possible anti-fanboy retaliation for this post. But I figured I would just post and deal with any reactions. I don't find this post biased, all I am saying is you should examine closely what your statistical method actually tells you. I would suggest comparing current ELO to ELO from 2 months ago to determine who is "rising."


The point of the OP was to point out that it is pointless and utterly retarded to start talking about Bisu as if he was still a "great" player. He isn't. He's merely good, a good proleaguer, a consistent starleaguer, and that's it.

I wish the TL ELO counter had a way to start counting back in months, too.
Jaedong beats other players. Bisu beats other players, in PL. Flash beats Starcraft.
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
August 19 2010 07:21 GMT
#24
On August 19 2010 15:46 l0st_romantic wrote:
ID Team ELO  Peak Gap?
Soulkey Stars 2116 2117 1
Tempest KT 2123 2126 3
free Stars 2227 2238 11
RorO FOX 2188 2199 11
Hydra CJ 2097 2108 11
Stats KT 2168 2181 13
Horang2 hite 2139 2153 14
Light MBC 2230 2245 15
Jaedong OZ 2347 2365 18

While most of them are relatively unknown, it is obvious that each of these players is up and coming.

This entire list is a bunch of oldies except for soulkey and stats so I dunno what you're talking about =.=
( ・´ー・`)
jon arbuckle
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada443 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 07:28:31
August 19 2010 07:27 GMT
#25
On August 19 2010 16:10 Lightwip wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2010 16:00 nttea wrote:
Bye bye bisu! will miss you but not your fans <3.

Do you realize how annoying it is to be a protoss fan?
Zerg have had plenty of successful players, including July, Savior(who?) and Jaedong.
Imagine if instead of July, it was Kingdom who was almost good enough to beat oov, and Nal_ra was the bonjwa rather than savior. Then Jaedong managed to dethrone this bonjwa and for once the zerg would have a chance to shine, only to find that their star slumps hard, and Bisu is the consistent one who slumps for like 5 seconds after some BS runs.
So the only good players end up being Yellow(silver) and inconsistent Jaedong, and after 3 years, it looks like no other star has come about, while free/best etc become consistently ownage players for a long period of time. You would think of Jaedong in the same way. Because honestly, toss never had anyone other than Stork the Silver and Bisu the slumper to represent their race as anything other than inferior. Fanboy attitude is perfectly acceptable IMO.
/end rant.


Well spoken. I've always thought this must be really frustrating.

Even as a Zerg, I was really hoping for Movie and Snow to pick up where the Dragons left off and showcase some dominant Protoss play. Movie has sublime sair/reaver v. Z when he wants to demonstrate it, and that Snow v. Flash PL game on Fighting Spirit was absolutely sublime. But this seems to have hit a rough patch for now.
Mondays
Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 07:30:25
August 19 2010 07:29 GMT
#26
I agree that while Bisu still has a match-up that he can be incredibly devastating at (PlantsvZombies LOL); and that his (PlayervPlayer XD) is still very respectable, compared to his top form, or any other top players' form in the last year or so, that he has not been competing at their level any more. Before, he could still outplay (PvTanks) using his other skills, but not anymore. I'd actually say he fulfills the role of a powerful role player with some versatility nowadays, but not as an all-star player anymore.

Edit: When I first opened this thread I actually thought it was a thread that Bisu isn't as good-looking as people thought he is. XD That could be an excellent topic for discussion too. *snickers*
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4215 Posts
August 19 2010 07:30 GMT
#27
I also find it amusing that these threads always come immediately after bisu loses.

I'd be more convinced that you actually think this way if you made this thread while he was still in the ro16 of both starleagues and wcg. But now it just seems like you want attention.
( ・´ー・`)
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
August 19 2010 07:32 GMT
#28
I still think he's handsome.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
zobz
Profile Joined November 2005
Canada2175 Posts
August 19 2010 07:36 GMT
#29
Bisu did play some very nice games during that period recently during which people were saying he was coming out of his slump. His elo/elo peak gap wouldn't have been very telling though since it was just a few games in a short period. You said it yourself, it would take him a long time to recover his previous statistical form. Obviously you should be comparing his elo right before he started sucking again, not to his PEAK, but to his elo during his main slump. And even then, it's not a matter of the points he gains from his games anyway, but a matter of how well he played which doesn't show up in statistics.

I really do agree though, on the main point. Bisu fan though i am, he's clearly not found whatever it is he lost yet, because there's very little fire in his eyes right now, or anything remarkable in his attitude. His recent losses are getting to him too easily, and he's showing nothing so far of determination to break through. He just looks depressed. Hopefully he's on his way there though, in the long run.
"That's not gonna be good for business." "That's not gonna be good for anybody."
Brad
Profile Joined April 2010
2754 Posts
August 19 2010 07:36 GMT
#30
Still a legend, forever a legend.
Lee Jae Dong proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the StarCraft game strategy.
Lightwip
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5497 Posts
August 19 2010 07:42 GMT
#31
On August 19 2010 16:36 zobz wrote:Bisu fan though i am, he's clearly not found whatever it is he lost yet, because there's very little fire in his eyes right now, or anything remarkable in his attitude. His recent losses are getting to him too easily, and he's showing nothing so far of determination to break through. He just looks depressed. Hopefully he's on his way there though, in the long run.

But a few key losses could be what it takes to snap someone out of a period of sucking. I know that almost losing to an E terran(if not for mine daebak) simply because I played bad after dropping from D+ to low D helped me realize that I needed to pull my shit together. It's probably the same for progamers(as long as they stay confident, or else it could just be a slump).
If you are not Bisu, chances are I hate you.
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 07:45:42
August 19 2010 07:43 GMT
#32
Bisu will always be the number 1 protoss player in our hearts!!!

| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
NB
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Netherlands12045 Posts
August 19 2010 07:54 GMT
#33
i
am really
disappointed

FUCK IT! his performance in PL play off is WAY better... once we thought he was fully came back despite of the slump in PvT vs Sea... apparently he was not coming back T__T
Im daed. Follow me @TL_NB
aimaimaim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Philippines2167 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 08:03:00
August 19 2010 08:01 GMT
#34
i would just like to point out that ..

most of the players in your list are at least in the same year where bisu started his televised games .. wtf are you talking about that free us a young player in the scene??

+ Show Spoiler +
not been a fan of him since he december 2009 .. Hyuk all the way .. im a fan if you are delivering games that are fun to watch, may that be a win/lose
Religion is a dying idea .. || 'E-sport' outside Korea are nerds who wants to feel like rockstars. || I'm not gonna fuck with trolls on General Forum ever again .. FUCK!
ci_esteban
Profile Joined April 2010
United States217 Posts
August 19 2010 08:03 GMT
#35
Your statistics have nothing to do with how handsome and good looking Bisu is so I don't really understand the point of this thread. Unless people like Bisu because of his play...that would be absurd though right?
MoRe_mInErAls
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Canada1210 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-19 08:04:37
August 19 2010 08:04 GMT
#36
(Z)sAviOr has won the rivalry. He is a greater and more accomplished Starcraft player than (P)Bisu can ever be.
Yxes2211
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1587 Posts
August 19 2010 08:06 GMT
#37
I really feel bad for Tosses. A Toss hasnt won an SL since 2008 >.< God thats a horrible drought for fans so I really feel for them. They really need a player to rally behind and Bisu did it once, so they are clinging to that >.< That said, Bisu just isn't what he used to be D: and sad thing is I don't see anyone picking up where he left off D: Snow? nah I think he's excellent but not enough to become the future of Toss.

I really hope u truly resurge Bisu but from your interviews it feels like you're not particularly hungry for another title. Flash and Jaedong want to go down as the best rivalry so they have a deep seeded desire to succeed, I just don't see that with my man Bisu...

Hope u come back Bisu but I'm not holding my breath D:
Jaedong and Baby
Marl
Profile Joined January 2010
United States694 Posts
August 19 2010 08:13 GMT
#38
I'm not giving up on bisu until a different toss wins a starleague

+ Show Spoiler +
please do it free!!
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
August 19 2010 08:14 GMT
#39
another Bisu hater, how sweet it is! Elo peak gap comparision? Wow, what a great statistical proof! Also those "uknown" players who are "up and coming" but in reality they are just old players who were never good enough? Are you serious?

On August 19 2010 16:54 NB wrote:
FUCK IT! his performance in PL play off is WAY better... once we thought he was fully came back despite of the slump in PvT vs Sea... apparently he was not coming back T__T


there's thin line between success and TL shouting SLUMP as we also know from JD and Flash example. Had Bisu defended that hydra all-in it would have been different story.
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
PineappleLumpsToss
Profile Joined July 2010
New Zealand2434 Posts
August 19 2010 08:24 GMT
#40
As a Toss fan, and unashamed Bisu fan, this thread just makes me shake my head. It's just sad that people get their jollies from kicking others while they're down.

Who knows if KTY will ever get back to where he was. Chances are he probably won't. Regardless, you can't take away what he has achieved, and how important he is, and has been to the Toss race (and its supporters).

So what if Bisu fans were prematurely lauding his comeback. Blind optimism/faith is exactly what being a fan is all about!!!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 21 22 23 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
11:00
Playoffs Day 4
MaxPax vs SHIN
Clem vs Classic
IntoTheiNu 372
IndyStarCraft 125
Liquipedia
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
Weekly #129 (TLMC 22 Edition)
ByuN vs ArTLIVE!
CranKy Ducklings80
StrangeGG66
Railgan46
CranKy Ducklings SOOP33
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Ryung 609
TKL 232
IndyStarCraft 125
ProTech123
SortOf 121
Rex 76
Railgan 46
MindelVK 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24158
Calm 4833
Horang2 1669
Jaedong 990
BeSt 322
EffOrt 264
actioN 249
Mini 235
Pusan 232
Light 201
[ Show more ]
Last 197
Hyun 177
ZerO 147
Dewaltoss 118
ggaemo 80
sorry 66
Soulkey 56
Sexy 54
Shine 42
Sharp 29
HiyA 22
Hm[arnc] 21
Shinee 19
Sea.KH 17
Sacsri 17
IntoTheRainbow 13
SilentControl 11
JulyZerg 11
Killer 9
Noble 7
Dota 2
Gorgc3861
XaKoH 617
NeuroSwarm434
XcaliburYe177
BananaSlamJamma10
League of Legends
JimRising 377
Counter-Strike
byalli683
x6flipin490
allub404
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor357
Other Games
singsing1745
B2W.Neo482
DeMusliM239
RotterdaM174
Pyrionflax168
Mew2King58
ZerO(Twitch)13
Mlord1
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream11722
StarCraft 2
WardiTV546
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• 3DClanTV 81
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 23
• iopq 10
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1696
League of Legends
• Jankos1814
• TFBlade1335
Upcoming Events
Ladder Legends
3h 35m
Solar vs GgMaChine
Bunny vs Cham
ByuN vs MaxPax
BSL
7h 35m
CranKy Ducklings
12h 35m
Replay Cast
21h 35m
Wardi Open
22h 35m
Afreeca Starleague
22h 35m
Soma vs hero
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 21h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 22h
Leta vs YSC
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Escore
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W4
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W5
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.