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5003 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Pholon/odds.png) In this issue: FINALLY an update on KeSPA - Blizzard lockdown Blizzard Shenanigans Savior's apology Other Odds and Ends.
Note: These are write ups based on the news sources linked. They may not be literal translations.
Department of Culture to KeSPA: Go into negotiations recognizing Blizzard's Intellectual Property Rights
The Korean Department of Culture, Sports, and Tourism and Korean Creative Contents Agency and entered as arbitrators of the Starcraft Intellectual Rights discussion. The negotiation committee will be recreated through the Department of Culture's arbitration, and through recognizing the Intellectual Property rights of Starcraft, the negotiation is expected to speed up quite considerably.
Negotiations between KeSPA/OGN/MBC and Blizzard/Gretech has been rather silent, with no news coming out since the supposed parties opening negotiations with Gretech. According to firms related to the Department of Culture on the 28th, KeSPA will be represented by a member from the board of directors who represents the progame teams, and enter the negotiations as an observer and make up the negotiations committee with the creative contents agency. According to etnews, the KeSPA executive office will not be a part of the negotiations, but rather take a more secretarial role. The committee members will be made out of representatives from SKT, KT, and Woongjin, one representative from the KeSPA executive office, and one representative from the Creative Contents Agency.
A personnel related to the Department of Culture said that "We have told KeSPA to recognize the intellectual property rights and go into negotiations", and that "the executive office needs to step back and enter negotiations centered on the board of directors". This reflects Blizzards' wishes that they no longer wish to negotiate with KeSPA's executive office. The negotiations are expected to now involve representative of the progaming teams and the Creative Contents Agency.
A personnel from the Creative Contents Agency stated that they are "entering as arbitrators", and that "Because there needs to be a sponsor for the Proleague, we hope to end the negotiations before August". On the other hand, KeSPA's general manager Kim Cheol Hak stated that "Creative Contents Agency is entering the negotiations, and the KeSPA executive office will of course be in the negotiations"
NOTE: This news is pretty much 2 hours old as of this post, and details WILL change over time.
Sources:
http://www.gamemeca.com/news/news_view.html?seq=12&ymd=20100729
http://www.etnews.co.kr/news/detail.html?id=201007280091
http://game.inews24.com/php/news_view.php?g_serial=507057&g_menu=020521
Blizzard Shenanigans
Despite Blizzard's promises to respect Korean Law after their run-in with the law during the Beta, it seems as if Blizzard had participated in more illegal activities. Korean Law states that companies can only have wrap advertisements on certain types of buildings, and the it is often punished by a small fee (5 million won). Blizzard decided that, the fine was worth it, and advertised Starcraft 2 anyway. Considering Blizzard Korea has a budget of 30 million dollars on advertising, this doesn't come at a surprise, although quite a bit of the money seems to have been spent "promoting" news agencies to only report positive things about Starcraft 2, which explains why Fomos has only written about how Blizzard went through a tremendous effort to make SC2 perfect for Koreans, hiring Korean VAs to dub the entire game, and synchronizing lips to match Korean.
Back to the building advertisement issue: Blizzard could not have been ignorant on this issue, since this was a huge deal during this past World Cup, as many Korean companies got in trouble for it. Now, people seem to be rather unhappy that Blizzard knowingly broke the law, despite their statement saying that they would not do it again.
Of course, their advertisements would be more effective if they didn't anger the Cooperation of PCbang in Korea, which seems to be a union of PC Bang owners of sorts. The chairman stood outside Blizzard Korea's HQ on a one-man relay protest. The main source of the issue seems to be related to Blizzard's policy regarding PC Bangs. Unlike SC1, where once the game was purchased, the game could be used to connect as many users as they wished, Blizzard went with a WoW approach towards SC2. PCBang owners now must pay a subscription fee to Blizzard, which is about 192,800 won for 800 hours, translating to about 220 won per hour, which is about nearly 20% of an hourly PCBang fee, which is nearly 16 times as much as what an individual would pay for a 30 day subscription.
To add insults to injury, it seems as if Blizzard snuck into PC Bangs and put up posters without permission.
Part of this may reflect on why Starcraft 2 is completely and utterly under performing in the Korean Market. According to gametrics.com, (super cool name btw), Starcraft 2's opening day performance in PC Bangs was only 0.8%, giving it 20th place in popularity. The original had 6.64%, giving it 5th place for that day. At homes, according to gamenote.com, Starcraft 2 took a glorious 67th place,compared to the original taking 19th place that day.
Savior's Apology
Savior has posted a public apology of sorts on his Cyworld. It reads as follows
Hello. It's me, Savior.
First of, I am bowing my head and apologize to the fans, to everyone who loved eSports, and people related to eSports, for disappointing them with my ignorant actions. As someone who has felt a lot of responsibility related to eSports, I would like to admit to my mistakes, and while it's late, confess my mistakes to everyone who has trusted me.
In order to achieve my goal as a progamer, I dropped out of school in my second to last year of Highschool and came up to Seoul by myself. And I had become a progamer and even up to a few months ago, was active under my previous team. Whether or not my records were good or bad, I only thought about the game. Even when my records were so bad that everyone suspected me, in order to reclaim my glory, I concentrated solely on gaming other than the 5 hours a day where I slept. The game was my entire life. But now, due to making a wrong choice at one moment, I have to accept that I have to give up my life as a gamer.
Around last September, there were rumors between the gamers that there were betting sites with match fixing. It is true that I have received several offers through my mini homepage. The offers were really sweet, but because they do not help my career, I have clearly delivered the message that I would not participate in such an act. But the problem is that I told my friends without reserve, and in the end had a bad influence on them. For this, I will acknowledge my mistake and I apologize from the bottom of my heart.
In addition, I would like to explain my position and why I waited so long to clear up my position.
Last May, I was in the hospital for a month due to surgery on my knees. But because the situation started getting serious, I contacted a certain reporter and the reporter visited me and there was an interview. In contrast of the articles that were published, I told him everything I knew about match fixing and that I wasn't away without leave from the dormatories.
After the interview, I felt as if I had gotten a load off my mind, and I waited for the article to appear. However, even though I waited for a week, the article that expressed my position didn't come out, and time kept passing.
After that, I became a coward who couldn't even read the comments on the internet, and thought that if time will pass, I will be forgotten. However, because of me, my old school's homepage was terrorized with malicious content and many people who has helped me has gotten hurt. And most of all, because I have hurt my parents and my fans, I thought that I could no longer run away from reality.
If my thoughts were proper back then, some of my friends wouldn't have gotten stuck in that bad road, and those friends, whose lives were about the game, would still be active in the scene. Because of this, I am regretting this even more and I am posting this message of apology.
I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.
Once again, I want to apologize to everyone who has been disappointed about me, and I will atone on the fact that I have caused a lot of criticism in society. I bow my head and apologize from the bottom of my heart
- Savior.
+ Show Spoiler +
안녕하세요, 마○○입니다.
먼저, 제 부족한 행동으로 팬 여러분들과 e스포츠를 사랑해주신 모든 분들, e 스포츠 관계자 여러분들께 실망을 안겨 드리게 된 점 깊이 머리 숙여 사죄드립니다. 다른 누구보다도 e 스포츠에 책임감을 가지고 있던 한 사람으로서 잘못을 인정하기에 저를 믿어주셨던 분들께 늦었지만 늦게나마 사죄를 드리며, 제 잘못을 고백하고자 합니다.
저는 프로게이머의 꿈을 이루기 위해 고2때 학교를 자퇴하고 홀로 서울에 왔습니다. 그리고 그토록 원하던 프로게이머가 되어 불과 몇 개월 전까지만 해도 소속팀에서 활동했습니다. 성적이 뛰어날 때나 성적이 저조할 때도 오로지 게임만 생각했습니다. 여러분이 의심할 만큼 저조한 성적이 나왔을 때도 예전의 명성을 되찾기 위해 하루 5시간의 수면을 제외하고는 오직 게임에만 전념하며 지냈습니다. 게임은 제 인생의 전부였습니다. 그러나 이제 저는 한순간의 잘못된 행동으로 게이머로서의 삶을 접어야 한다는 현실을 받아들일 수밖에 없습니다.
작년 9월 무렵, 게이머들 사이에 승부조작 베팅 사이트가 있다는 소문이 있었습니다. 제게도 미니홈피를 통해 여러 번 제안이 들어온 것은 사실입니다. 저에게 그 제안은 달콤했지만 제 이력에 전혀 도움이 되지 않는 일이므로 저는 받아들이지 않겠다는 의사를 명확하게 전달했습니다. 그런데 문제는 이러한 사실을 동료들에게 거리낌 없이 말했고, 그들에게 결과적으로 좋지 않은 영향을 끼쳤다는 것입니다. 이 부분에 대해서 잘못을 인정하고 정말 진심으로 사과드립니다.
덧붙여 입장 표명이나 해명이 미루어졌던 점에 대해서도 말씀드리고 싶습니다.
지난 5월, 저는 무릎 수술로 한 달간 병원에 입원하여 치료를 받고 있었습니다. 그런데 사태가 심각해지자 개인적으로 한 기자님께 연락을 드렸고 기자님께서 병실로 방문하셔서 인터뷰가 이루어졌습니다.
언론의 기사와는 달리 제가 숙소를 무단이탈 하지 않았다는 점과 이번 승부조작사건에 관해 제가 알고 있는 모든 사실 있는 그대로를 말씀드렸습니다.
인터뷰를 마친 후, 한시름 덜었다는 생각과 기사가 나오기만을 기다렸습니다. 그러나 일주일이 지나도 제 의견이 반영된 기사는 나오지 않았고, 점점 시간만 흐르게 되었습니다.
저는 그동안 인터넷 댓글도 읽을 수 없는 겁쟁이가 되어 세월이 지나면 나라는 존재는 잊혀지겠지, 하는 마음으로 틀어박혀 지냈습니다. 그런데 저로 인해 제가 다녔던 학교 홈페이지가 악플로 중단되고, 저를 도와준 지인들이 상처를 받는 일이 발생하게 되었습니다. 무엇보다도 저를 믿어주셨던 부모님과 팬 여러분들께 큰 상처를 안겨드렸다는 사실에 더 이상 현실에서 도망을 치면 안 되겠다는 생각이 들었습니다.
제가 그 당시 생각이 바로 잡혀 있었다면 몇몇 동료들이 저로 인해 나쁜 길로 빠지지 않았을 것이고, 게임이 인생의 전부였던 제 친구들은 지금도 활발하게 활동을 하고 있을 것입니다. 그래서 더욱 뼈저린 후회를 하며 사죄의 말씀을 올리는 것입니다.
죄송합니다.. 정말 죄송합니다
다시 한 번, 저로 인해 실망하신 분들께 죄송하며, 사회에 물의를 일으킨 점 깊이 반성하며 지내겠습니다.. 진심으로 고개 숙여 사과드립니다.
마○○ 올림.
Other Odds and Ends
- Nal_Ra has completed his military training, and now will be working at a middle school for his public interest duty. When asked if anyone recognized him, he said that he has joined during vacation time.
- Sangho now has a column on dailyesports, called "Sangho's Viewpoint"
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God damn sAviOr...
Why did you pimp out on the gamblers and hustling the other programers pff.
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United States4053 Posts
Odds and Ends is awesome as usual, props to Milkis and the translation team for doing this.
Sangho now has a column on dailyesports, called "Sangho's Viewpoint"
Is the TL team going to translate this as well? Please?
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
Savior 
Thanks, Milkis. Glad something's finally being done...
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United States33205 Posts
You forgot the best part of the Blizzard "marketing" news, where they pretty much bribed every Korean website to write only good things about SC II with that $30 million ;D
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5003 Posts
On July 29 2010 16:22 Waxangel wrote:
You forgot the best part of the Blizzard "marketing" news, where they pretty much bribed every Korean website to write only good things about SC II with that $30 million ;D
Gah, can't believe I missed that somehow. Thanks for the catch. This explains fomos right now so much.
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lol, I guess Blizzard didnt bribe only korean sites. Otherwise I cant explain why SC2 gets almost perfect reviews from various western websites only 24hrs after release.
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Uggh... Activision blizzard ruining everything...
Blizzard is too greedy now.
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Oh blizzard you... as if the name starcraft isn't enough promotion...
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Thanks for it.
Damnit savior, you had that coming if you informed the other dudes about it.
And I am disappointed in Blizzard...
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This just shows how once small awesome companies turn into large successful corporations they always turn evil. (lol)
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Negotiations better end well, don't want to lose any part of the proscene.
Wow, Blizzard really pushed it with their advertising campaign.
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the PC bang subscription fee is just pathetic money grubbing and doesn't make much sense tbh if they're looking to promote the game. Subscription fees should be mmo's only, there's not enough/any additional free content produced in an rts to justify that kind of revenue.
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The Korean news seems to be pretty anti-Blizzard right now. As a profit-seeking entity, I don't see how Blizzard's actions are really that bad. The article itself acknowledges that many Korean companies broke the regulations on advertising on buildings during the World Cup, and the fact that Blizzard is imposing a PC bang fee equivalent to 16x the usual individual fee seems fair to me, considering how big PC bangs can be.
I suspect that any news coming out of Korea regarding Blizzard will have a high degree of bias for the time being.
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On July 29 2010 16:52 Scarecrow wrote:
the PC bang subscription fee is just pathetic money grubbing and doesn't make much sense tbh if they're looking to promote the game. Subscription fees should be mmo's only, there's not enough/any additional free content produced in an rts to justify that kind of revenue.
Time cards or subscription-like payment for games have been the most popular form of payment for online games in Korea for a very long time now. That's why it is hard to quote the number of Starcraft II copies sold in Korea, as most people don't own the right to play the game, except for the duration of the time card.
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Oh Saviour
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On July 29 2010 17:00 tyCe wrote:
The Korean news seems to be pretty anti-Blizzard right now. As a profit-seeking entity, I don't see how Blizzard's actions are really that bad. The article itself acknowledges that many Korean companies broke the regulations on advertising on buildings during the World Cup, and the fact that Blizzard is imposing a PC bang fee equivalent to 16x the usual individual fee seems fair to me, considering how big PC bangs can be.
I suspect that any news coming out of Korea regarding Blizzard will have a high degree of bias for the time being.
You do realise 20% of fee is huge. For all you know, margin might only be 20% or less.
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I hate this. Why does this have to happen? I wish people would just look at Starcraft 2 as a game. And then play it for what it is, not go through all these bad press and bias reports.
The number 1 reason why SC2 didn't do well in korea for beta is because of bad press and rumors.
Even Boxer says, if a great game arises, it will become part of e-sports. That's not the case if everyone hates it due to their ties with SC1 and the drama Kespa produced.
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On July 29 2010 17:38 Lokian wrote:
I hate this. Why does this have to happen? I wish people would just look at Starcraft 2 as a game. And then play it for what it is, not go through all these bad press and bias reports.
The number 1 reason why SC2 didn't do well in korea for beta is because of bad press and rumors.
Even Boxer says, if a great game arises, it will become part of e-sports. That's not the case if everyone hates it due to their ties with SC1 and the drama Kespa produced.
And you never think about why it gets bad press ? When you do bad things, people will hate you. Blizz is now in over-greedy mode and don't care shit about the future of e-sport, so it is just natural that the Koreans are against them.
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Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
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Is it me or is savior's apology still really dodgy?
On July 29 2010 16:40 prototype. wrote:
Oh blizzard you... as if the name starcraft isn't enough promotion...
Exactly what I was thinking. Going to those lengths to promote a game that's supposed to be the second coming has to make you wonder.
On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
This reads like pure propaganda. If anything, Bnet 2.0 is a great example of working opposite of promoting international eSports.
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Be realistic man, "to take e-sport to the international level" is just plain stupid. Blizz knows that. You can develop e-sport in Asian countries, not in Western countries, and Blizz is no fool to not recognizing that. BNET2 is a tool to control the whole scene, not to promote e-sport. If they really want to care about e-sport, they would have put LAN back.
I have SC2 in my PC, it is a very good game, and has all the potential to become the successor of SC as a sport, but first it must get the approval of the Koreans. What Blizz is doing is very stupid, they want supreme control over the SC1 scene, and complete control over the SC2 scene, so that all money will go to their pocket. If I were a Korean I couldn't approve this, I would want e-sport to be managed by a non-profit organization backed by my own government.
The "development of e-sports around the world" doesn't exist at all, and one little Blizz can't make it happen. No one will help them either since they control the whole thing and don't want to make a step back. It is just natural, their goal is money, not e-sport. They will drop support the moment when e-sport is no longer profitable.
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On July 29 2010 18:58 kmdarkmaster wrote:
Be realistic man, "to take e-sport to the international level" is just plain stupid. Blizz knows that. You can develop e-sport in Asian countries, not in Western countries, and Blizz is no fool to not recognizing that. BNET2 is a tool to control the whole scene, not to promote e-sport. If they really want to care about e-sport, they would have put LAN back.
I have SC2 in my PC, it is a very good game, and has all the potential to become the successor of SC as a sport, but first it must get the approval of the Koreans. What Blizz is doing is very stupid, they want supreme control over the SC1 scene, and complete control over the SC2 scene, so that all money will go to their pocket. If I were a Korean I couldn't approve this, I would want e-sport to be managed by a non-profit organization backed by my own government.
The "development of e-sports around the world" doesn't exist at all, and one little Blizz can't make it happen. No one will help them either since they control the whole thing and don't want to make a step back. It is just natural, their goal is money, not e-sport. They will drop support the moment when e-sport is no longer profitable.
have to agree with this completely...
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Activision 
Savior´s apology is interesting. I´ve got the feeling that he minimizes his own wrongdoing to the point that he´s deviating from the truth.
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On July 29 2010 16:22 Waxangel wrote:
You forgot the best part of the Blizzard "marketing" news, where they pretty much bribed every Korean website to write only good things about SC II with that $30 million ;D
Shows how much games "journalism" is actually worth
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On July 29 2010 18:58 kmdarkmaster wrote:
Be realistic man, "to take e-sport to the international level" is just plain stupid. Blizz knows that. You can develop e-sport in Asian countries, not in Western countries, and Blizz is no fool to not recognizing that. BNET2 is a tool to control the whole scene, not to promote e-sport. If they really want to care about e-sport, they would have put LAN back.
I have SC2 in my PC, it is a very good game, and has all the potential to become the successor of SC as a sport, but first it must get the approval of the Koreans. What Blizz is doing is very stupid, they want supreme control over the SC1 scene, and complete control over the SC2 scene, so that all money will go to their pocket. If I were a Korean I couldn't approve this, I would want e-sport to be managed by a non-profit organization backed by my own government.
The "development of e-sports around the world" doesn't exist at all, and one little Blizz can't make it happen. No one will help them either since they control the whole thing and don't want to make a step back. It is just natural, their goal is money, not e-sport. They will drop support the moment when e-sport is no longer profitable.
You be realistic. There's no e-sport prohibition in the Western world. If something becomes popular enough, people will hop on it for profit of various types. Just because you think e-sports is a mystic, ancient secret that can only be upheld in Korea doesn't make it true.
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savior
so he didnt really throw games?
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Canada2480 Posts
On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
hmm
I'm not sure but... Korean E-SPORTS association probably cares about e-sports...
well yeah sure I guess kespa don't care about it, I mean... they only exist because of e-sports right?
oh yeah and B.Net 2.0 is not built for E-sports at all and you can't say anything good about 2.0 in it's current state
I also must state that leacing a e-sport in the hand of a company that is not purely designed for it (like Kespa) is an awfull idea. Sure it might work well for a while but when WC4 comes along... what is blizzard going to do with the old SC2?
also, there is a cultural difference between the west and the east that would make it very surprising to see E-sports become mainstream. (not even talking about the fact that there are almost no PC bangs in the west)
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I will and always forgive Savior. No, I am not a fan, but i feels that he has been punished enough already and he knows his mistakes.
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Savior
And the people talking about a big esports scene in the west are really optimistic, I just don't see it happening...
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Im glad Blizzard is forcing SC2 on Korea. Koreans need to embrace SC2 in my opinion. Not because of ugly reasons like "BW is old" or whatever. More because i think they could do well with it. For their PC cafe culture SC2 is awesome. Anyone over there who has been playing BW all this time should at least give SC2 maybe a year or so of constant online playing, THEN see what they think. So what if Blizzard broke sign law. So what if Blizzard paid for good reviews. The game deserves great reviews. Anyone playing the campaign or laddering right now who doesnt dig it is crazy. Yeah there are some imperfect things. But nothing to give a bad review over. Just because a little kid wants to eat 15 gumballs because his natural instinct is to enjoy the taste of sugar, sometimes you just gotta go over his head and take it from him so he doesnt get sick. And just because some Korean people are unsure of SC2 because of things like "Blizzards business model" or "rumors", doesnt mean that the game sucks or that it isnt worth at least a year or so of playing it and seeing how far it can go.
Watch the behind the scenes DVD for christs sake. All of the actual artists that created SC2 are brilliant, hilarious people. SC2 is their idea and their hard work. When you buy and play SC2 you are buying it because of those peoples creativity and dedication. Who cares if the company is owned by people who are trying to maximize profits? The artists themselves who created it should get some credit and people should stop saying Blizzard is just after money and turned evil etc. Thats such a modern day cliche. Its only being said because people like to say sensationalist things and everyone feels smart being a watch dog for consumer fairness and nobody wants to fall for being duped by some "evil corporate monster". The artists and designers are completely different people with completely different reasons for doing what they do than the business men that squeeze every dollar out in less than appealing ways. I think if people want to go on a witch hunt for companies that arent giving people their moneys worth, Blizzard should be about last on that list.
Glad to see Kespa having to negotiate. Glad to see Savior attempting a PR makeover. I think its messed up what he did but id be happy if he came right back for SC2.
Btw, Blizzard stands to make a ton of money from SC2, but so do all the pro teams and businesses in Korea, and pretty much South Korea in general.
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5003 Posts
Added a paragraph on SC2's performance in Korea.
Hint: it didn't do well
Is the TL team going to translate this as well? Please?
Unlikely unless we can get another Translator. There isn't many nowadays it seems ;;
The number 1 reason why SC2 didn't do well in korea for beta is because of bad press and rumors.
Source? What kind of "bad press and rumors" did Korea get during Beta? Back up your shit please.
Im glad Blizzard is forcing SC2 on Korea. Koreans need to embrace SC2 in my opinion. Not because of ugly reasons like "BW is old" or whatever. More because i think they could do well with it. For their PC cafe culture SC2 is awesome. Anyone over there who has been playing BW all this time should at least give SC2 maybe a year or so of constant online playing, THEN see what they think. So what if Blizzard broke sign law. So what if Blizzard paid for good reviews. The game deserves great reviews. Anyone playing the campaign or laddering right now who doesnt dig it is crazy. Yeah there are some imperfect things. But nothing to give a bad review over. Just because a little kid wants to eat 15 gumballs because his natural instinct is to enjoy the taste of sugar, sometimes you just gotta go over his head and take it from him so he doesnt get sick. And just because some Korean people are unsure of SC2 because of things like "Blizzards business model" or "rumors", doesnt mean that the game sucks or that it isnt worth at least a year or so of playing it and seeing how far it can go.
Watch the behind the scenes DVD for christs sake. All of the actual artists that created SC2 are brilliant, hilarious people. SC2 is their idea and their hard work. When you buy and play SC2 you are buying it because of those peoples creativity and dedication. Who cares if the company is owned by people who are trying to maximize profits? The artists themselves who created it should get some credit and people should stop saying Blizzard is just after money and turned evil etc. Thats such a modern day cliche. Its only being said because people like to say sensationalist things and everyone feels smart being a watch dog for consumer fairness and nobody wants to fall for being duped by some "evil corporate monster". The artists and designers are completely different people with completely different reasons for doing what they do than the business men that squeeze every dollar out in less than appealing ways. I think if people want to go on a witch hunt for companies that arent giving people their moneys worth, Blizzard should be about last on that list.
What? What prompted this rant?
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Looks like Bw will stay strong in Korea
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Thanks so much for these translations and the format! Nice to be able to read the Korean news in one place.
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konadora
Singapore66153 Posts
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Wait, Savior never match-fixed in a game, but just told people about it. Shouldn't he get less of a punishment than the other gamers?
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For their PC cafe culture paying 20% of everything is clearly not awesome at all. Whoever siad Blizzard doesn't care about eSports - probably not true, they care as long as there's some profit in it for them. They don't seem to understand its free promotion of the game if they just let it evolve naturally. At the end of the day Blizzard isn't going to pay for proleagues/starleagues, pay progamers wages, their housing and food and basically isn't going to pay for anything.. they expect it all to be one way. They might sponsor a few tournaments at first for some post-launch hypepurposes but long term i doubt they have any interest to keep supporting an eSports scene.
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Some people still think sc2 is the messiah of e-sport and something like korean e-sport will soon happen all over the world. Kinda funny
And why would the koreans go to a less exciting game to watch like sc2? Just doesn't make sense... TV station only care about how many people watch, thats what it's all about and what will decide if Sc2 has a future in korea.
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On July 29 2010 23:41 Tazza wrote:
Wait, Savior never match-fixed in a game, but just told people about it. Shouldn't he get less of a punishment than the other gamers?
I'm not sure this is entirely true. Even if it is and he didn't lose games himself, his sentence should still be stronger than the players who did due to the fact he was the one actively getting other players involved. In that sense, his actions probably lead more to match fixing than any of the individual players who actually threw games.
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Good to see Sangho still active in esports after getting railroaded like he did.
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Blizzard's attempt to maximize profitability after Activision took over is getting out of control. They seem to prefer the prospect of profit over the respect of the gaming community. Is there any gaming community friendly company left? Other than Valve.
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On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
Because their parent company, Activision, has said in no uncertain terms that they don't care about things like this and are focused, solely, on the bottom line? This isn't some mindless conjecture, it's established company policy.
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On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
Your very one-sided rant prompted me to look at your post history.
All your posts are simply about how SC2 cannot have flaws and how professional Brood War was fixed. You seem to have an agenda.
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On July 30 2010 01:05 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it. Your very one-sided rant prompted me to look at your post history. All your posts are simply about how SC2 cannot have flaws and how professional Brood War was fixed. You seem to have an agenda.
Yeah that's the worst post I've ever read. Who is this guy? It's terrible writing so I doubt he could actually be working for Blizzard. He's probably just slightly clueless. Makes you wonder though...
I think Savior is being incredibly disingenuous. The guy strikes me as guilty as sin, this "apology" where he basically claims he did nothing more than mention to his "friends" in progaming about matchfixing strikes me as complete crap and makes me more suspicious of him than ever. Sad to see him go, but this attempt at spinning his own part makes me lose a little bit more respect for him. If he turns out to be innocent, great, but it really looks like he was in up to his neck. Simply saying 'Hwasin has it all wrong - I never fixed any games' seems rather unlikely to me at least.
I hope Blizzard goes down in flames. While I hated KeSPA for some of their past arrogance, especially during the free agency period and how they treated Jaedong, Blizzard has really taken the cake. I am tempted never to buy another product from Blizzard ever again. Going into PC Bangs and just putting up advertising without asking? Wow. Such pricks.
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I'm hoping that this will at least make Blizzard re-think their business strategy. Brand name can only get you so far, and repeatedly pissing off your biggest supporters by removing features and charging excess money is gonna bite you in the ass eventually.
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I think the free agent thing had an actual intent, to stop the better funded teams taking all of the good players because they could pay more and satisfy the fanbases of the teams which are very dependent on the big name players of those teams. Unfortunate for the players though.
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Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing".
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On July 30 2010 02:14 QuickStriker wrote:
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing".
Yet again, there are many BW fanboys in starcraft2 forum starting flame wars, trying to convince everyone how Bw is 1000x times better.
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5003 Posts
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
I would translate too or read the articles in Korean as well but I'm too lazy nor take too much time to do either since English is so much easier. But seeing all these work you and others been doing, I'll give a hand whenever you really do need it! But for now, keep up the good work! :D
But as I watch this, I realized just how I understand the Korean nicely and I could also have translated English. But the translation was good so I'm not needed but I feel like maybe I should commit myself to join or do future projects alone like this even though I have no clue how to code them and all. Still, good job!
Ever gonna walk the talk or are you seriously all fucking talk
like seriously "Oh I'll translate but <blah blah>" is the most annoying thing ever. As much as I appreciate you taking the time to thank every translation, I don't even know what you're trying to hint at with these constant "I'll translate" things but never putting in ANY effort to.
Oh, there's more.
Also guys, I realized that Hyuk's interview never got translated for his group in MST. I find that very annoying and outrageous! So much that I will translate it myself despite my weak half-quality Korean skills as long as I get a link to the interview. It may take like couple of hours compared to our real translators who take only few minutes but IT MUST BE TRANSLATED! So if anyone can provide a link, I will translate it (only Hyuk's) and post it on front page. So someone please give me that link! Thanks!
Oh oh oh, I wanna try for this.... but I was wondering if I qualify as a translator? Although I haven't posted translated articles, I have translated play-by-play live games from PL and OSL via livestreams, especially Mystlord's channel. That'll be really cool since I'll then have determination to improve my korean skills to translate articles as well!
I know Korean language and it's not b/c of the fact I love SC which made me. If anything it became a nice benefit and supplment of knowing korean that allowed me to translate Korean during PL matches...
But I learned it b/c....
1. I'm naturally a Korean (though I didn't learn it until college)
2. Took Korean courses in college (FOUR OF THEM)
3. Forced to speak Korean all the time at home whether I like it or not...
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Savior, I am disappoint.
Glad to see Sangho keeping is head high. And Nal_rA is doing..what exactly? Public interest duty? Wuzzat?
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On July 30 2010 02:25 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 02:14 QuickStriker wrote:
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing". Yet again, there are many BW fanboys in starcraft2 forum starting flame wars, trying to convince everyone how Bw is 1000x times better.
Well, you know, it is better...
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On July 30 2010 02:46 MangoTango wrote:
Savior, I am disappoint.
Glad to see Sangho keeping is head high. And Nal_rA is doing..what exactly? Public interest duty? Wuzzat?
Nal_rA's public interest duty is for those who are entered into the mandatory 2-year military program who have certain problems that prevent them from entering into basic military service (i.e bad vision, missing limbs, etc.) Since rA has bad vision, he gets into the public interest duty instead.
Good to see Sangho getting something positive going. The false accusations basically imploded his progaming career and reputation, which was pretty sad.
Obligatory "thanks for the interview" Milkis sentence.
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On July 29 2010 23:11 Mellotron wrote:
Im glad Blizzard is forcing SC2 on Korea. Koreans need to embrace SC2 in my opinion. Not because of ugly reasons like "BW is old" or whatever. More because i think they could do well with it. For their PC cafe culture SC2 is awesome. Anyone over there who has been playing BW all this time should at least give SC2 maybe a year or so of constant online playing, THEN see what they think. So what if Blizzard broke sign law. So what if Blizzard paid for good reviews. The game deserves great reviews. Anyone playing the campaign or laddering right now who doesnt dig it is crazy. Yeah there are some imperfect things. But nothing to give a bad review over. Just because a little kid wants to eat 15 gumballs because his natural instinct is to enjoy the taste of sugar, sometimes you just gotta go over his head and take it from him so he doesnt get sick. And just because some Korean people are unsure of SC2 because of things like "Blizzards business model" or "rumors", doesnt mean that the game sucks or that it isnt worth at least a year or so of playing it and seeing how far it can go.
Watch the behind the scenes DVD for christs sake. All of the actual artists that created SC2 are brilliant, hilarious people. SC2 is their idea and their hard work. When you buy and play SC2 you are buying it because of those peoples creativity and dedication. Who cares if the company is owned by people who are trying to maximize profits? The artists themselves who created it should get some credit and people should stop saying Blizzard is just after money and turned evil etc. Thats such a modern day cliche. Its only being said because people like to say sensationalist things and everyone feels smart being a watch dog for consumer fairness and nobody wants to fall for being duped by some "evil corporate monster". The artists and designers are completely different people with completely different reasons for doing what they do than the business men that squeeze every dollar out in less than appealing ways. I think if people want to go on a witch hunt for companies that arent giving people their moneys worth, Blizzard should be about last on that list.
Glad to see Kespa having to negotiate. Glad to see Savior attempting a PR makeover. I think its messed up what he did but id be happy if he came right back for SC2.
Btw, Blizzard stands to make a ton of money from SC2, but so do all the pro teams and businesses in Korea, and pretty much South Korea in general.
SC2 is a good game, but it shouldn't cost 60 dollar per cd-key. Yes, I'm saying that even though this game was made by brilliant people, it still should not cost 60 bucks to buy it.
And I'm assuming most people know the infamous Robert A. Kotick? Or more commonly known as Bobby Kotick? I'm pretty sure he's behind most of blizzard's action of late.
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On July 30 2010 02:48 night terrors wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 02:25 AyJay wrote:On July 30 2010 02:14 QuickStriker wrote:
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing". Yet again, there are many BW fanboys in starcraft2 forum starting flame wars, trying to convince everyone how Bw is 1000x times better. Well, you know, it is better...
I don't see any reason why it's better
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On July 30 2010 03:58 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 02:48 night terrors wrote:On July 30 2010 02:25 AyJay wrote:On July 30 2010 02:14 QuickStriker wrote:
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing". Yet again, there are many BW fanboys in starcraft2 forum starting flame wars, trying to convince everyone how Bw is 1000x times better. Well, you know, it is better... I don't see any reason why it's better
And you probably never will.
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On July 30 2010 02:41 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future. Show nested quote + I would translate too or read the articles in Korean as well but I'm too lazy nor take too much time to do either since English is so much easier. But seeing all these work you and others been doing, I'll give a hand whenever you really do need it! But for now, keep up the good work! :D Show nested quote +But as I watch this, I realized just how I understand the Korean nicely and I could also have translated English. But the translation was good so I'm not needed but I feel like maybe I should commit myself to join or do future projects alone like this even though I have no clue how to code them and all. Still, good job! Ever gonna walk the talk or are you seriously all fucking talk like seriously "Oh I'll translate but <blah blah>" is the most annoying thing ever. As much as I appreciate you taking the time to thank every translation, I don't even know what you're trying to hint at with these constant "I'll translate" things but never putting in ANY effort to. Oh, there's more. Show nested quote +Also guys, I realized that Hyuk's interview never got translated for his group in MST. I find that very annoying and outrageous! So much that I will translate it myself despite my weak half-quality Korean skills as long as I get a link to the interview. It may take like couple of hours compared to our real translators who take only few minutes but IT MUST BE TRANSLATED! So if anyone can provide a link, I will translate it (only Hyuk's) and post it on front page. So someone please give me that link! Thanks! Show nested quote +Oh oh oh, I wanna try for this.... but I was wondering if I qualify as a translator? Although I haven't posted translated articles, I have translated play-by-play live games from PL and OSL via livestreams, especially Mystlord's channel. That'll be really cool since I'll then have determination to improve my korean skills to translate articles as well! Show nested quote +I know Korean language and it's not b/c of the fact I love SC which made me. If anything it became a nice benefit and supplment of knowing korean that allowed me to translate Korean during PL matches...
But I learned it b/c....
1. I'm naturally a Korean (though I didn't learn it until college)
2. Took Korean courses in college (FOUR OF THEM)
3. Forced to speak Korean all the time at home whether I like it or not...
Well I was trying to be courteous and respectful here with even suggestions and offering of help but if that's your stance and attitude, I'll have to say there's 2 things that is clearly wrong from your point of view from this quote.
1. No one, especially you, never gave me a chance nor opportunity to help out when I requested it. Did I ever get a PM or translating team to be requested to be deployed? Must I always be the first one to make the move to reach out and do something about it? You're always saying how you need more translators and all and that manpower is short but it seems to me that you constantly ignored me on purpose without even the slight consideration of the possibility that I am here to willing help out. But instead of PMing, you want to take this out here so fine.
On July 29 2010 23:16 Milkis wrote:Unlikely unless we can get another Translator. There isn't many nowadays it seems ;;
2. All the other quotes are in the past and other places. Why are you bringing irrelevant information in this thread that has nothing to do with the topic? Are you trying to show off even more of how you're trying to show hatred to me? I already know you hate me for whatever reason it may be. But really, what are you trying to prove here in this very thread by bringing all these up?
This is why Milkis, I don't like you as well. I don't know what reasons you have to dislike me but I really don't like you at all trying to stir up fights everywhere we go. That being said, I never said I don't want to help, so that's a completely different topic. If you want to fight, take it elsewhere than here.
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How to translate:
Read an article
Translate it
Post it
The end
If it's going to take a long time, pick something old you're interested in.
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On July 30 2010 04:06 QuickStriker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 02:41 Milkis wrote:Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future. I would translate too or read the articles in Korean as well but I'm too lazy nor take too much time to do either since English is so much easier. But seeing all these work you and others been doing, I'll give a hand whenever you really do need it! But for now, keep up the good work! :D But as I watch this, I realized just how I understand the Korean nicely and I could also have translated English. But the translation was good so I'm not needed but I feel like maybe I should commit myself to join or do future projects alone like this even though I have no clue how to code them and all. Still, good job! Ever gonna walk the talk or are you seriously all fucking talk like seriously "Oh I'll translate but <blah blah>" is the most annoying thing ever. As much as I appreciate you taking the time to thank every translation, I don't even know what you're trying to hint at with these constant "I'll translate" things but never putting in ANY effort to. Oh, there's more. Also guys, I realized that Hyuk's interview never got translated for his group in MST. I find that very annoying and outrageous! So much that I will translate it myself despite my weak half-quality Korean skills as long as I get a link to the interview. It may take like couple of hours compared to our real translators who take only few minutes but IT MUST BE TRANSLATED! So if anyone can provide a link, I will translate it (only Hyuk's) and post it on front page. So someone please give me that link! Thanks! Oh oh oh, I wanna try for this.... but I was wondering if I qualify as a translator? Although I haven't posted translated articles, I have translated play-by-play live games from PL and OSL via livestreams, especially Mystlord's channel. That'll be really cool since I'll then have determination to improve my korean skills to translate articles as well! I know Korean language and it's not b/c of the fact I love SC which made me. If anything it became a nice benefit and supplment of knowing korean that allowed me to translate Korean during PL matches...
But I learned it b/c....
1. I'm naturally a Korean (though I didn't learn it until college)
2. Took Korean courses in college (FOUR OF THEM)
3. Forced to speak Korean all the time at home whether I like it or not... Well I was trying to be courteous and respectful here with even suggestions and offering of help but if that's your stance and attitude, I'll have to say there's 2 things that is clearly wrong from your point of view from this quote. 1. No one, especially you, never gave me a chance nor opportunity to help out when I requested it. Did I ever get a PM or translating team to be requested to be deployed? Must I always be the first one to make the move to reach out and do something about it? You're always saying how you need more translators and all and that manpower is short but it seems to me that you constantly ignored me on purpose without even the slight consideration of the possibility that I am here to willing help out. But instead of PMing, you want to take this out here so fine. Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 23:16 Milkis wrote:Is the TL team going to translate this as well? Please? Unlikely unless we can get another Translator. There isn't many nowadays it seems ;; 2. All the other quotes are in the past and other places. Why are you bringing irrelevant information in this thread that has nothing to do with the topic? Are you trying to show off even more of how you're trying to show hatred to me? I already know you hate me for whatever reason it may be. But really, what are you trying to prove here in this very thread by bringing all these up? This is why Milkis, I don't like you as well. I don't know what reasons you have to dislike me but I really don't like you at all trying to stir up fights everywhere we go. That being said, I never said I don't want to help, so that's a completely different topic. If you want to fight, take it elsewhere than here.
About 1, I'm sorry but I had to laugh. If you're going to help out, might as well initiate it yourself. That's more professional. You don't just sit around and go I can help if you want. You're supposed to find whats missing and translate that yourself.
Milkis's post was rude, but he does have a point.
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Translator fights?
SC2 vs BW fights?
Man, the flames in here might have more drama involved than the actual news (thanks for the news btw Milkis).
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Time for a grudgematch 
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Katowice25012 Posts
On July 30 2010 04:06 QuickStriker wrote:
1. No one, especially you, never gave me a chance nor opportunity to help out when I requested it. Did I ever get a PM or translating team to be requested to be deployed? Must I always be the first one to make the move to reach out and do something about it? You're always saying how you need more translators and all and that manpower is short but it seems to me that you constantly ignored me on purpose without even the slight consideration of the possibility that I am here to willing help out. But instead of PMing, you want to take this out here so fine.
I'm going to step in here and say this isn't how it works. You don't go around "requesting to be deployed". TL doesn't work this way, you know why? Because everyone volunteers and has tons of time to help out until it comes time to actually do anything, then very few produce. You get on a team by doing things on your own. We need people who are self motivated, who do things without having to be told.
If you showed some initiative and actually did some content, great, this would be a totally different story. You haven't.
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On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
how very ignorant. do you even know what kespa is?
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On July 30 2010 04:23 heyoka wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 04:06 QuickStriker wrote:
1. No one, especially you, never gave me a chance nor opportunity to help out when I requested it. Did I ever get a PM or translating team to be requested to be deployed? Must I always be the first one to make the move to reach out and do something about it? You're always saying how you need more translators and all and that manpower is short but it seems to me that you constantly ignored me on purpose without even the slight consideration of the possibility that I am here to willing help out. But instead of PMing, you want to take this out here so fine.
I'm going to step in here and say this isn't how it works. You don't go around "requesting to be deployed". TL doesn't work this way, you know why? Because everyone volunteers and has tons of time to help out until it comes time to actually do anything, then very few produce. You get on a team by doing things on your own. We need people who are self motivated, who do things without having to be told. If you showed some initiative and actually did some content, great, this would be a totally different story. You haven't.
Then just say so. Milkis being such a dick about it was completely uncalled for (unless there was some previous incident where QuickStriker was told this).
I mean, it should be pretty easy to figure out, but there was absolutely no reason to lash out like that instead of just nicely telling him that he doesn't need to ask permission to just go translate a PL interview. Even if he's been told that before, Milkis still ridiculously overreacted.
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On July 30 2010 01:05 Zona wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
Who cares about E-sports? Really? Do you think Kespa cares? Seeing as how they rather be head-honcho than negotiate, I beg to differ.
Blizzard did all this to promote SC2, to take e-sports to the international level. Not just Korea. SC may die in Korea, but with the development of e-sports around the world, Korea's going to soon pick it up. This is the hope that's left in my opinion. Unless Kespa does something with their team to speed up the process, it may take a while.
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it. Your very one-sided rant prompted me to look at your post history. All your posts are simply about how SC2 cannot have flaws and how professional Brood War was fixed. You seem to have an agenda.
no doubt the poster is a product of blizzard's $30m advertising budget.
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On July 30 2010 04:19 Saracen wrote:Time for a grudgematch
OH HELL YES. Milkis vs Quickstriker please.
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savior
he was like my favorite progamer even though i dont even play zerg
i'd really like to see that interview that savior had though
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@Savior
Doesn't matter anything to be apologizing now.
Slap my face and say I'm sorry? I'll not forgive you.
Even tho Savior claims he never threw a game on purpose, we can never confirm that.
Also, if he fixed matches for his "friends", he is as guilty as he would be if he was throwing games only.
Sometimes it looks that people don't think before acting and end up messing everything around'em to, only then, apologize to everyone "from the bottom of my heart"...
Come on!!!
Stop doing bad things and you won't need to apologize, got damnit!
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5003 Posts
Then just say so. Milkis being such a dick about it was completely uncalled for (unless there was some previous incident where QuickStriker was told this).
I mean, it should be pretty easy to figure out, but there was absolutely no reason to lash out like that instead of just nicely telling him that he doesn't need to ask permission to just go translate a PL interview. Even if he's been told that before, Milkis still ridiculously overreacted.
I'm pretty sure he knows this. He has attempted to translate before, only to 1) quit after a short attempt, 2) only managed to translate one line in an interview during that time.
The point is this. No one will ask you to translate unless you have proven yourself to be a consistent and good translator. I've heard nothing but negative things about QS's stream translations, and judging by his attempt I witnessed, there's no reason why I should be asking him for help at all.
I'm willing to help most people who wants to translate and help them with corrections, tips, whatever. However, even assigning anything to a "new" translator is risky -- 1) you're not going to be translating that because you have assigned it, 2) you don't know how good it will be, so you potentially end up with an article that should have been translated, but was not translated because either the quality is poor or the new translator just ended up being bag filled with air.
My post was rude, but I don't believe it was overreacting. It was meant to be rude, a kick, so to speak, to QS saying that, instead of saying "I'll help I'll help" constantly in many, many threads I have witnessed, maybe he should actually put out something good and consistently before we even consider asking him for help. In my opinion it's extremely arrogant to think you can help out with something when you yourself admit that your language skills are absolutely poor, which is something QS has mentioned in the public many, many times. If he admits that his Korean is poor, then what reason do we have to ask him for help? The only way he's going to ever get better if he gets off his high horse and walks the talk and starts translating things himself and asking for help instead of "waiting" for anyone to ask him for help. It's ridiculous, and honestly, I find his attitude insulting to translators who actually put in effort, even to translators like white_horse, Nal_Rawr, and kOre, whose translations may not be perfect, but have put in tremendous effort and took it to themselves to translate. Simply put -- it's insulting and annoying. It's like the little kid who constantly brags about something but never proves it at all, except QS isn't exactly a little kid.
That's all I'm going to say about the subject. Sorry for having this turn into a fight.
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I wonder why everyone blames Blizzard when it's obviously Activision that is the source of evil. Seeing how they raped Infinity Ward and fired the people responsible for founding IW and producing Modern Warfare 1 and 2 after they had served their purpose ...
Do I need to draw the lines between "no dedicated servers" and "no cross server"? I hate Bobby Kotick and i hate Blizzard for thinking it was a good idead to merge with them -_-'
On an up note, Savior's still trying to cover his ass 
PS: It just dawned on me that it was actually Activision that payed Savior for match-fixing, hoping that in doing so Starcraft would die out, forcing all the Koreans to buy Starcraft 2 ^^
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On July 30 2010 05:14 Milkis wrote:Show nested quote +Then just say so. Milkis being such a dick about it was completely uncalled for (unless there was some previous incident where QuickStriker was told this).
I mean, it should be pretty easy to figure out, but there was absolutely no reason to lash out like that instead of just nicely telling him that he doesn't need to ask permission to just go translate a PL interview. Even if he's been told that before, Milkis still ridiculously overreacted. I'm pretty sure he knows this. He has attempted to translate before, only to 1) quit after a short attempt, 2) only managed to translate one line in an interview during that time. The point is this. No one will ask you to translate unless you have proven yourself to be a consistent and good translator. I've heard nothing but negative things about QS's stream translations, and judging by his attempt I witnessed, there's no reason why I should be asking him for help at all. I'm willing to help most people who wants to translate and help them with corrections, tips, whatever. However, even assigning anything to a "new" translator is risky -- 1) you're not going to be translating that because you have assigned it, 2) you don't know how good it will be, so you potentially end up with an article that should have been translated, but was not translated because either the quality is poor or the new translator just ended up being bag filled with air. My post was rude, but I don't believe it was overreacting. It was meant to be rude, a kick, so to speak, to QS saying that, instead of saying "I'll help I'll help" constantly in many, many threads I have witnessed, maybe he should actually put out something good and consistently before we even consider asking him for help. In my opinion it's extremely arrogant to think you can help out with something when you yourself admit that your language skills are absolutely poor, which is something QS has mentioned in the public many, many times. If he admits that his Korean is poor, then what reason do we have to ask him for help? The only way he's going to ever get better if he gets off his high horse and walks the talk and starts translating things himself and asking for help instead of "waiting" for anyone to ask him for help. It's ridiculous, and honestly, I find his attitude insulting to translators who actually put in effort, even to translators like white_horse, Nal_Rawr, and kOre, whose translations may not be perfect, but have put in tremendous effort and took it to themselves to translate. Simply put -- it's insulting and annoying. It's like the little kid who constantly brags about something but never proves it at all, except QS isn't exactly a little kid. That's all I'm going to say about the subject. Sorry for having this turn into a fight.
Meh, it seems I don't totally understand the situation. Sorry for butting in and thanks for clarifying.
It still seems to me that straightforward communication would work better than rude posts - but this whole situation obviously has a lot more history than I know about/care to research.
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is it just me or does savior's apology sound more like a sob story?
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On July 30 2010 05:33 Sunyveil wrote:
is it just me or does savior's apology sound more like a sob story?
Because thats what 90% of apologies are .
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Thanks alot Milkis for translating and putting this together, can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
Can't wait and see how the Negotiations between KeSPA/OGN/MBC and Blizzard/Gretech will turn out. Hopefully for the better for the sake of esports.
Has blizzard explained why they have subscription for SC2 in korea? 
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United States1719 Posts
QuickStriker could timestamp, we always need more timestampers 
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Kespa is ordered by the government to recognize the IP rights of Blizzard. Savior comes out about the scandal, Blizzard has done illegal marketing in Korea. This is enough to last the rest of the year lol.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On July 29 2010 23:45 infinity2k9 wrote:
For their PC cafe culture paying 20% of everything is clearly not awesome at all. Whoever siad Blizzard doesn't care about eSports - probably not true, they care as long as there's some profit in it for them. They don't seem to understand its free promotion of the game if they just let it evolve naturally. At the end of the day Blizzard isn't going to pay for proleagues/starleagues, pay progamers wages, their housing and food and basically isn't going to pay for anything.. they expect it all to be one way. They might sponsor a few tournaments at first for some post-launch hypepurposes but long term i doubt they have any interest to keep supporting an eSports scene.
Yeah. I still don't understand what people were thinking when they were all excited about Blizzard taking over esports. They think Blizzard will come in and pay progamers very high salaries along with a 40 hour work week.
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lol at blizzard falling flat on it's face on marketing
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The subscription fee for PC Bangs they are charging is just outrageous, some of the reasons why SC1 was so successful was how cheap and easy it was to obtain legally and play.
Also Blizzard Korea seems to be run by the kind of unsavory corporate leadership that Korea corporations has gotten infamous for. At this rate if they don't change their attitude the game wouldn't even be as popular as WC3.
On July 29 2010 18:29 Lokian wrote:
If you look at how they built BNET 2, it resembles a good system for international e-sports. They even said they will hold tournaments through the results of BNET2. I really can't see how you can say they don't care anything about e-sports seeing as how the whole game was set up for it.
Forcing competitive players to paying for multiple copies in order to play against other international players resembles a "good" system? Especially when this restriction was not even an issue on their 12 year old game? You go ahead and do that bro and keep praising BNET2.
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thanks for the info
looks like sc2 is flopping bigtime in korea
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people really hyped about SC2 and think its gonna make way for an International Proleague are now dumb founded ..
srsly .. people who posted hate towards Kespa and praising B.net are sure full of themselves .. lol
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On July 30 2010 21:22 aimaimaim wrote:
people really hyped about SC2 and think its gonna make way for an International Proleague are now dumb founded ..
srsly .. people who posted hate towards Kespa and praising B.net are sure full of themselves .. lol
it could still happen if blizzard can get over themselves and fix up these serious issues
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On July 30 2010 13:53 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 23:45 infinity2k9 wrote:
For their PC cafe culture paying 20% of everything is clearly not awesome at all. Whoever siad Blizzard doesn't care about eSports - probably not true, they care as long as there's some profit in it for them. They don't seem to understand its free promotion of the game if they just let it evolve naturally. At the end of the day Blizzard isn't going to pay for proleagues/starleagues, pay progamers wages, their housing and food and basically isn't going to pay for anything.. they expect it all to be one way. They might sponsor a few tournaments at first for some post-launch hypepurposes but long term i doubt they have any interest to keep supporting an eSports scene. Yeah. I still don't understand what people were thinking when they were all excited about Blizzard taking over esports. They think Blizzard will come in and pay progamers very high salaries along with a 40 hour work week.
I was one of the people who had initially hoped that Blizzard would be willing to invest and nurture the e-sport scene.
What a sad joke. Everything indicate only one fact, Activision Blizzard is not interested in investing anything. All they want is immediate return and long term return in term of profit.
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I love both games. I still play the original SC as opposed to Bw because the dynamics of the game changes. Still the same balanced game but with different strats available.
I will primarily play SC2 now but I'll always pick up Bw/SC and play them on occasion. Still, it would be nice if non-pro gamers such as myself and my friends were able to easily setup a private tournament using B.Net 2.0. Maybe in B.Net 2.1 ? 
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Great article, thanks for doing stuff like this
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Actiblizz is just trying to exploit a game they tought to be a massive seller in Korea. Their hole idea as a company is to make games that they can exploit to the max. e.g WoW, guitar hero, starcraft 2 expansions. Why do u think we only got 1 campain in Sc2? Because they want to sell more stuff that u have to buy.
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Sanya12364 Posts
On July 30 2010 05:14 Milkis wrote:
I'm willing to help most people who wants to translate and help them with corrections, tips, whatever. However, even assigning anything to a "new" translator is risky -- 1) you're not going to be translating that because you have assigned it, 2) you don't know how good it will be, so you potentially end up with an article that should have been translated, but was not translated because either the quality is poor or the new translator just ended up being bag filled with air.
I'm going to back up Milkis on this. Correcting bad translations is harder and more time consuming than translating from scratch. There's the problem of the translation being wrong and having to figure out how it went wrong. Then there's the problem of the translation using non-standard expressions. If you do it yourself, you get it right on the first or second take. If you have to correct someone else, their poor word selection ends up derailing the whole process.
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Hey guys, im kinda new to posting on team liquid, but I have been reading a while.
Does anyone know how StarCraft 2 has sold in Korea? I am very interested to know as I believe 6 of the 10 million copies of StarCraft: Broodwar was sold in Korea.
I also want to advise people that any publicly traded company has a number one goal of profit. This is because the shareholders are the owners of the company and people buy shares for return. Correct me if I am wrong but activision is a traded company, therefore it makes sense for them to go after profit. I for one don't blame them for this, as this is why they spend so much money making a high quality games to sell well.
I don't know the situaton with KesPA but I believe your eggs would be better off in their basket rather than Blizzards when it comes to any e-sports. The reason being is that Blizzard/Activision would only support e-sports if it returns profits for them. I do find it bewildering though how blizzard take for granted the free exposure and publicity pro gamers bring to the game.
As for the people arguing whether Brood War or StarCraft 2 are better, this is how I look at it, this is with an example. Lets take Counter Strike 1.6 and Source and compare them. Counter Strike 1.6 is still the premier eposrts first person shooter, being featured in the world cyber games etc. This is because the game is alot harder than source. However, if you log on to steam, you will see 100,000 people playing source at anyone time and merely 50,000 - 60,000 on 1.6.
StarCraft2 and Brood War may end up the same. Where Brood War which is more skill intensive is more competitive, whereas StarCraft 2 is more popular and has more players. Another example of this is Quake 3 Arena and quake 4 with more tournaments going back to quak 3 for its competitive edge.
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5003 Posts
Does anyone know how StarCraft 2 has sold in Korea? I am very interested to know as I believe 6 of the 10 million copies of StarCraft: Broodwar was sold in Korea.
I haven't seen any numbers.
The "6 of the 10 million copies of SC BW in Korea" is kinda misleading in that most of the sales are in PC Bangs, and that SC2 doesn't really have that option for PC bangs this time around.
whereas StarCraft 2 is more popular and has more players.
Hardly. There's many reasons why a SC2 league won't be as close as successful to BW in Korea. BW is quite unique as a game cause it came into Korea at the right time.
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Sigh..Savior...
Edit: Thanks for the translation Milkis <3
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10387 Posts
On July 31 2010 02:25 LockStep wrote:I love both games. I still play the original SC as opposed to Bw because the dynamics of the game changes. Still the same balanced game but with different strats available. I will primarily play SC2 now but I'll always pick up Bw/SC and play them on occasion. Still, it would be nice if non-pro gamers such as myself and my friends were able to easily setup a private tournament using B.Net 2.0. Maybe in B.Net 2.1 ?
hahaha I thought I was the only one who played the original SC w/ my friends.. Firebat/Tank in TvZ is awesome O_o but Muta/Gaurd sucks ><
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Pretty much, sc2 will not have any popularity in PC Bangs because of its immense subscription fees and other costs, perhaps like expansion sets and such.
sc2 will find rather limited popularity in the average home because of Korea's incredibly academic culture, which is one of the reasons why PC Bangs are popular in the first place.
sc2 will find more and more criticisms as it screws with Koreans and the law, especially considering how they're almost spitting on the rules of Korea for the sake of their own benefit, at the detriment of.. Korea. Prideful people we are, btw =/
overall, I don't think sc2 will really succeed in Korea. it'll go decent for a few years, then it'll die. in 10 years we'll be going "remember that game that had its own amazing culture around it? no, not that crappy game, the one before that... yeah broodwar, that one"
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Croatia9489 Posts
On August 06 2010 14:52 poptartazn wrote:
Pretty much, sc2 will not have any popularity in PC Bangs because of its immense subscription fees and other costs, perhaps like expansion sets and such.
sc2 will find rather limited popularity in the average home because of Korea's incredibly academic culture, which is one of the reasons why PC Bangs are popular in the first place.
sc2 will find more and more criticisms as it screws with Koreans and the law, especially considering how they're almost spitting on the rules of Korea for the sake of their own benefit, at the detriment of.. Korea. Prideful people we are, btw =/
overall, I don't think sc2 will really succeed in Korea. it'll go decent for a few years, then it'll die. in 10 years we'll be going "remember that game that had its own amazing culture around it? no, not that crappy game, the one before that... yeah broodwar, that one"
I really like your post, except that last part.
I wish in 10 years it'll go something more like this:
"remember that game that had an amazing hype and culture of it's predecessor around it, but failed horribly? sc3? no, not that crappy game, the one before that... yeah sc2, that one. Oh well, at least we still have our broodwar."
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On July 30 2010 02:25 AyJay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 02:14 QuickStriker wrote:
Thanks for the translation and good read Milkis. Really enjoyed it. I know my Korean reading skills aren't good but perhaps I can help somewhat in the future.
But first thing comes into my mind as I read the posts of this thread and other thread that include both SC1 and SC2 is that I can't believe we have such ignorant blind posters of TL who seem to be brain washed by Blizzard and SC2. It's always the same thing over again which result to flaming comments and strong criticism between BW and SC2 that's usually started by SC2 fanboys. Seriously, you guys have your own forum to go to called "Starcraft 2" forum in TL and this is "Broodwar" that's meant for usually SC1 so can you at least be respectful for a thread and forum that's mainly about SC1? God, I really want to kick all your butts everytime I hear "oh good, SC1 should die" "SC2 > SC1 blah blah blah" or "Blizzard is always right on what they're doing". Yet again, there are many BW fanboys in starcraft2 forum starting flame wars, trying to convince everyone how Bw is 1000x times better.
You mean there are Broodwar fanboys on Teamliquid, a Broodwar site? A site that has years and years of culture and fans built up on Broodwar? Damn..
+ Show Spoiler +On July 29 2010 23:11 Mellotron wrote:
Im glad Blizzard is forcing SC2 on Korea. Koreans need to embrace SC2 in my opinion. Not because of ugly reasons like "BW is old" or whatever. More because i think they could do well with it. For their PC cafe culture SC2 is awesome. Anyone over there who has been playing BW all this time should at least give SC2 maybe a year or so of constant online playing, THEN see what they think. So what if Blizzard broke sign law. So what if Blizzard paid for good reviews. The game deserves great reviews. Anyone playing the campaign or laddering right now who doesnt dig it is crazy. Yeah there are some imperfect things. But nothing to give a bad review over. Just because a little kid wants to eat 15 gumballs because his natural instinct is to enjoy the taste of sugar, sometimes you just gotta go over his head and take it from him so he doesnt get sick. And just because some Korean people are unsure of SC2 because of things like "Blizzards business model" or "rumors", doesnt mean that the game sucks or that it isnt worth at least a year or so of playing it and seeing how far it can go.
Watch the behind the scenes DVD for christs sake. All of the actual artists that created SC2 are brilliant, hilarious people. SC2 is their idea and their hard work. When you buy and play SC2 you are buying it because of those peoples creativity and dedication. Who cares if the company is owned by people who are trying to maximize profits? The artists themselves who created it should get some credit and people should stop saying Blizzard is just after money and turned evil etc. Thats such a modern day cliche. Its only being said because people like to say sensationalist things and everyone feels smart being a watch dog for consumer fairness and nobody wants to fall for being duped by some "evil corporate monster". The artists and designers are completely different people with completely different reasons for doing what they do than the business men that squeeze every dollar out in less than appealing ways. I think if people want to go on a witch hunt for companies that arent giving people their moneys worth, Blizzard should be about last on that list.
Glad to see Kespa having to negotiate. Glad to see Savior attempting a PR makeover. I think its messed up what he did but id be happy if he came right back for SC2.
Btw, Blizzard stands to make a ton of money from SC2, but so do all the pro teams and businesses in Korea, and pretty much South Korea in general.
lol?
If the game was good, no one would care about the business tactics. If the game was good, Blizzard wouldn't need those business tactics anyway.
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just think about how much more successful sc2 would've been in korea if they had done things in a different way, and just not successful for the future of e-sports but for their profits aswell
whoever is in charge of their marketing down there really deserves to be fired
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thanks for the bump. I missed savior's apology.
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EPT
