EPTAttack-Move Macro (chill's suggestion) - Page 4
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madnessman
United States1581 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
Starcraft is about a balance of micro and macro, and if you neglect one for the other too much then you aren't really improving. This is the point some of us are trying to bring up. As a suggestion I think the practice should be changed to just a few actions right when the battle starts: eg sieging your tanks, stopping your vultures from continuing running, then going back to your base. That can't take much time and is much better practice in the long run. On April 19 2010 16:36 blueblimp wrote: If the idea is to play without an opponent and practice macro, I agree, that is helpful. (I've done it myself.) Pretty much the same idea as practicing a build with no opponent, which is also useful. I thought the idea though was to focus on pure macro during games, which not only is going to lose you the games in a lot of matchups, but you aren't even going to survive long enough to get any serious macro done, so it's not even helpful as practice. That's where my post was coming from. As he says, it's also not a good practice since you're just macroing hard and throwing away units, only worse than a computer would. You won't survive long enough to get any macro experience. Another good way to practice macro is to play fastest. Lots of macro involved here. Then after the game ends, you can choose to continue playing and try your hands at controlling 30 production buildings, if for nothing else but muscle memory. Then killing your own units to get the pop down, and getting back to macro as fast as possible. I found that very helpful. | ||
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CakeOrI)eath
United States327 Posts
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
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InnerPartySystem
Netherlands49 Posts
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Theflower
2 Posts
Wouldnt this also work much better in SC2 zerg? as zerg only really need to micro brood lords/infestors. focusing purely on BO timing building up a army/economy and stright out-macroing your opponent with your roach/hydra army on A-move is almost how most zergs i see play. (they are doing Pinser attacks/burrow traps but for the most part its A-move in build up and A-move in again). | ||
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theshortone
Canada13 Posts
Personally, it's the greatest feeling in the world watching my hydra/muta army trash a terran mech army - I live for that sorta thing - but I hardly ever macro well enough to be able to win that fight. In the end, long term gain > training losses. | ||
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skippy2591
United States46 Posts
call me noobie or stupid if you want, but fellow tl-ers, I finally found where my micro has to go in my gameplan. for one of the first times in few months of playing bw online, I felt like I finally got it. it felt great!! finally, I am begining to lose games not just because my units had no ups or reinforcements, but I am loseing because my left hand is to uncordinated to hit 1a2a3a4a fast enough to keep my army toghether. this my friends is a very nice feeling to have... but now I only wish my left hand would just magically float to the keys that I want it to hit just like the pros do >_< lol, not out of the woods yet, but closer than I was yesterday ^~^ thx chill 4 suggestion | ||
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goldenkrnboi
United States3104 Posts
most of us here have passed that learning curve. we already understand that. but for the people who are just now being introduced to starcraft, this is an incredible way of getting them settled into the competitive field. you've probably forgotten just how hard properly macroing is for a beginner. Someone used a basketball analogy earlier, and i'll use it as well. Many people watch Kobe or Lebron or Carmelo or Kevin Durant or all of those high scorers and think "oh shit. they're so fuckin cool. I wanna play like that", but the majority of those people only end up working on their shot so they can shoot like their idols. That's horrible, because they're not learning the basic fundamentals. Most of them use a horrible shooting technique, and they barely touch on other fundamentals such as dribbling or passing or layups. In order to develop into a good player, they need to learn the other basics so that the shot that they practice hard on can show it's true potential. That's just like Starcraft basics. You can have the best fucking micro in the world, but if you don't have the macro to support your micro, you're going to get overrun. You need to develop your macro in order to make your micro shine, or at the very least supported. That's what Chill's emphasizing. | ||
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seppolevne
Canada1681 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=107478 Will it get you to C? Probably not. Will it help you build more then a group of units with 3k-3k sitting in the bank? You bet. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
 . It's really meant for training 100% new players. after that you can start worrying about unit mix, and you'll win more games. And then you can start worrying about timing, which requires scouting. At that point, you should be playing ~80 apm minimum, which is a pretty good way to start off in either sc1 or sc2. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On April 20 2010 09:53 B] call me noobie or stupid if you want, but fellow tl-ers, I finally found where my micro has to go in my gameplan. for one of the first times in few months of playing bw online, I felt like I finally got it. it felt great!! finally, I am begining to lose games not just because my units had no ups or reinforcements, but I am loseing because my left hand is to uncordinated to hit 1a2a3a4a fast enough to keep my army toghether. this my friends is a very nice feeling to have... but now I only wish my left hand would just magically float to the keys that I want it to hit just like the pros do >_< lol, not out of the woods yet, but closer than I was yesterday ^~^ thx chill 4 suggestion I don't understand what you are saying. Are you sarcastically bashing the idea or saying that it worked for you? Is losing games one way better than another? On April 20 2010 11:02 goldenkrnboi wrote: some of you guys are saying that learning how to multitask is more important. how do you guys expect to learn how to multitask when you don't know how to macro properly. ._. most of us here have passed that learning curve. we already understand that. but for the people who are just now being introduced to starcraft, this is an incredible way of getting them settled into the competitive field. you've probably forgotten just how hard properly macroing is for a beginner. You need to develop your macro in order to make your micro shine, or at the very least supported. That's what Chill's emphasizing. Well I just played some relatively new players today because I was really interested about the strategy. It didn't seem like they were losing to macro but rather to micro. They would run battlecruisers under my dark swarmed hydras, in the first game. When we double four/five pooled a player in the first game he had no idea how to defend it as a zerg with 9pool. I've defended 2x4pools before. Then in the second game I defended against a 3v1 assault for a good half hour, not because their macro was bad. They had enough units to beat me. They just had no good unit composition, no drops, no idea how weak I really was compared to them. When my ally pushed out with 20 carriers they had no idea how to counter it and we won again a 3v2. They expanded just fine even though it was bgh. They built drones and probes and scvs. I would argue that micro is just as important, if not more important than macro. New players should try to learn both so they can improve faster and better. Now according to my tests here and on bnet today, I will agree that putting macro at a higher emphasis than micro did allow me to have a far larger impact on the game. But macro isn't everything. You need to practice both. You need to develop your micro so that your macro will at least have some use. That's what I'm emphasizing. If anyone wants the reps I can put them up... I just don't want to do it without permission. | ||
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skippy2591
United States46 Posts
no, i'm just stateing that its becoming more clear to me that macro was a major part of my game that i waz missing which lead me to so many extended streaks of sucking w/ the occasional victory sprinkled here and there. Of cours i always knew that i sucked at macro, but i for some reason didn't consciencly make the vital connection that one of the major reasons why i frequently lost waz because i spent so many credit hours (lol, college humor) staring at dying things as oppose to spending resources and teching. Now i would be lying to all of you if i said it waz because of chill's suggestion that i took note of this cuz observers sure don't cut their toungs mid game, and bw chart never seemes to loose replays ( wish it did some times -_-), but i can honestly say that it wazn't untill his suggestion that i made a true conscience effort to actually nagg myself about macro rather than muta micro or attack-retret-attack hydras. addressing ur response to golden's statement, i must say yes, the point you are emphasizing is very much valid, and is equaly as important as what i feel chill waz emphasizing... that cannont, however, go without asking the very simple question of:::: Which one is more important to learn earlier on? micro or macro? imo, its macro hands down because being able to manage ur army is nice with all the cute shit u can do w/ defillers and shuttles (shuttle bombs ftw! >.< ), but I feel its much more important to know/ find out when the time is right to throw down that queens nest in preperation for hive tech first as oppose to commanding an army of Aced* Hydras. *historical refrence for WWI pilots, look it up | ||
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Wivir
United States18 Posts
I noticed myself sending out huge armies much quicker than before. I was also able to expand with minimal effort. Sitting there macroing as much as I can. Then all of a sudden, the victory screen pops up. | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
but there are exceptions, chill's idea was just for general practice and foundation joint anyways yeah if you have skills to use, a little microing you could be doing, if you haev enough APM don't macro go ahead and micro and you can win right there macro isn't always more important that micro, it all depends on the situation~ cheers, great advice for practicing On April 19 2010 17:22 madnessman wrote: I think this is a good idea for beginners who struggle with multi tasking. Some people don't understand that this is not a "strategy" to win games. Without any micro your army is going to be eaten alive but you'll build up your mechanics and learn the importance of macro. | ||
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TFNxOmega
United States17 Posts
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Ironson
20 Posts
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cncbmb
238 Posts
eh PvZ is hard | ||
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skippy2591
United States46 Posts
On April 22 2010 10:53 Ironson wrote: For completeness, the OP was referring to djWheat and Chill's "Weapon of Choice" show. First (pilot) episode can be viewed here: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6279504 yea, right at about 1:10:00 for all those wanting to hear it. If you are going to check it out, i suggest listining from that point on (for the purposes of discussion of course) --thx ironson for refrence XD ad djWheat's rebuttal to listenr gripe | ||
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Amazn
United States83 Posts
Being 100% new and jumping into everything, I'm feeling really overwhelmed. This gives me a good place to start. | ||
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