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Too Strong to Die

Forum Index > BW General
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Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 06:33:56
April 15 2010 06:32 GMT
#1
It's been a rough time for our favorite game, Starcraft: Broodwar lately. Let's look at the list of problems. Most recently we've been going through cheating allegations from various sources, allegations which if true - and they seem to have substance - tarnish the image of (Z)one of the finest ever to play the game, among others. On top of all this, famous players like (P)Bisu, (T)firebathero, (Z)EffOrt, and (Z)Calm are playing mediocre Starcraft: sometimes they look downright bad. Legends like (P)Reach, (T)NaDa, (T)Iris, and (Z)July seem to have lost their magic, perhaps never to return. At times even the very best - (Z)Jaedong, (T)Leta, (P)Stork, (T)fantasy - have looked terrible in recent games. Certainly, you say, some of the magic is gone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkxBJrBOqH0
Magic happening, the old-school way.


Of course, the news is not all bad. (T)Flash is looking like the closest thing to a challenger for "bonjwa" status since (Z)Jaedong ripped his way through scores of wannabe alpha nerds for a full year en route to second place in the Shinhan Bank 2009 Winners League, second place in the Shinhan Bank 2009-2010 Proleague, and two straight OSL titles and The Golden Mouse. And that was less than a year ago! Old-timers like free, (Z)Kwanro, (T)fOrGG, and (P)Kal have been picking up their game recently; newer players like (P)Stats, (T)BaBy, and (Z)ZerO continue to provide flair and exuberance. Times may be changing in the pro scene, but there's never a dull moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPsl4TBrGWU
A pretty sweet game - just played yesterday!


And we can even say that, for all its faults, Starcraft II looks like it could well develop - in another three or four years of hard-core play - into a worthy successor to the best RTS ever made. Blizzard recently opened the beta stage for Starcraft II, and despite various balance debates and general complaining the game already looks set to become a huge success regardless of quality - just look at the number of people streaming and the hordes of people watching them do it. Well-known Broodwar stalwarts like Chill and Day[9] are spending huge amounts of time playing and discussing Starcraft II. And yes, whatever some of us would like to believe, the game really does have that kind of potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxF4XWtj4g
Magic, The Replacement(?)


But we know this: There will always be a niche somewhere in the world for underwater basket-weavers. People do various things for various reasons, not always for money - and hell, if curling can be in the Olympics, we can virtually (see what I did there) guarantee there will always be some sort of professional gaming scene - and on that scene, as we know full well, there will always be some players of The Best Strategy Video Game Ever Made, whether that continues to be Broodwar, is usurped by SC2 (can you imagine how awesome it would be to actually have a better game in our hands?) or some hypothetical future game, or is Broodwar, finally revived in thirty years when lesser imitators and descendants have run their course. Even J. S. Bach was ignored for a while and had to be revived. We know it can happen to the best: but we know the best always survives. Bach. Homer. Michelangelo. Chess. Starcraft.

[image loading]
This is such a fantastic image. I can't say it better myself. <3 NeverGG


But in the end, a game is not successful - a game does not live - on the efforts of a few professionals who happen to be very very good at something. A game lives in the lives and imaginations of us, the people who play the damn thing. Football - soccer - is the biggest game there is because everybody plays it. Chess has survived for a thousand years because kids learn to play chess from their parents and older siblings growing up, even though the vast majority of people utterly suck balls at it and don't understand the strategy behind it. Basketball and football (American) and baseball (also American, but then so am I) and cricket or rugby (not American) live and grew in popularity because people played them. Even people who go on 0-13 free throw streaks and can't touch the bottom of the net will go out and play basketball because they love it - and it's people like that that keep the game alive. I'm not saying that you have to suck to care about a game. I'm saying that there are games, and then there are games that people come back to time and time again regardless of skill level, because the game brings out something beautiful.

I confess: I've played this game for nine years now, and I still suck balls at it. I only ever win with Zerg all-in shenanigans or the occasional PvT 10/15. I'm the D- to end all D-. I'm not even any good at BGH or Fastest to make up for it. I've done time with other titles in frustration: Homeworld, Age of Empires, Warcraft III, Dawn of War; but I keep coming back to Starcraft. I know I'm not the only one. But I still count myself as part of a game that's more than a game, a game that's developed a community.

I was listening to Day[9] on Tuesday, presenting his life of Starcraft. I honestly don't remember the last time I was that close to crying: I can't imagine his emotions during some of the events he mentioned, but in a community we all become a part of that. Maybe Starcraft will never match the draw of a World Cup or a Super Bowl. Maybe we'll be relegated to the occasional showcase of the curling world, or the mere showmanship of the ice skaters. Maybe - maybe more likely - we'll just continue as a thing that millions follow, but quietly, like chess-players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzDGNBKplVw
Follow quietly? Korea says "ROFL".


I'm not really a motivational speaker. But I'm upset here. Between the accusations of cheating in the Korean scene and the advent of Starcraft II, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Starcraft will die." I don't know why they think that. Some seem to think the integrity of the game is ruined. This is so much nonsense. If the entire European football scene were found out tomorrow to have been rigged for the last ten years - absolutely nothing would stop a couple dozen guys going out on the weekend and kicking the ball around, playing the game. (Z)sAviOr or (T)Justin - hell, (Z)Jaedong or (T)Flash - could be proven a hacker, abetted by KeSPA, a week from now, and it would change nothing about the game. You could keep playing and not be tainted at all. The leagues in Korea could reform, reformed. Team Liquid and other sites could - and would - continue to host tournaments. Corruption can't kill a game this beautiful.

"We are just too pretty for God to let us die."
- Captain Malcolm Reynolds Any Starcraft Player


Others are afraid Starcraft II will deliver the coup de grace. A more warranted fear, but still, what are the possibilities: either Starcraft II delivers on its promise and rightly usurps the place of Prince of RTS, or it fails - and if it fails, we have our nearly-perfect game. Football (soccer, yes) has survived the evolution of rugby and Aussie rules and American rules and Canadian rules and for all I know Zulu rules and still goes strong. People lost tons of stuff in the Dark Ages, but some of it was preserved and most of it has been rediscovered - and twenty-five hundred years later, thousands of people still read Homer and laugh at Plautus' dirty jokes, even though it's not like nothing's been written since then.

The classics survive. Starcraft is a classic. It will survive, eventually and one way or another. But there is a way things can wither for a time, and that's for those who love them to lose faith. "It's just a game," they say. Explain it to them, don't agree. "I really should do something more social," you think. Start a LAN group. Do what it takes. We've got something special here, something Blizzard surely never dreamed of when they released what was just another good RTS. Starcraft is something you can build a community on, with everything that means: among other things, community is up to the people in it.

Watch the game. Play the game. Practice the game. Suck terribly at the game. Teach your kids and neighbors to play and feel the surge of pride when they kick your ass. Wait for the day, twenty years from now, when you'll be able to watch some scrawny nerd play for a World Championship, and you'll be able to say, "I taught that loser to 5-pool," when he wins. Because that's what we've got here: a game that's more than a game, a game that's got the potential to become a part of history.

Success is never final - and failure is not fatal
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Rainmaker5
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1027 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 06:40:17
April 15 2010 06:39 GMT
#2
I know one liners are discouraged here, but I can only say this-

Amen.
(-_(-_(-_(^_(-_(-_(-_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-)_-) CJ Fighting! "Beer -> soju -> whisky is a terrible build"~~ Scrarecrow.
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
April 15 2010 06:43 GMT
#3
Great read. I, too, believe Starcraft 2 will be a HUGE success, because there's already a strong community around the game. It's people like us who make the games so great. There are games with better designs, mechanics, and graphics than SC1 or 2. But a game is only truly great when we the fans lift it to that pedestal.

Well done, sir.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 06:47:51
April 15 2010 06:46 GMT
#4
As I've said before, Brood War won't stop being an amazing game the day SC2 is released. This OSL is shaping up to be great, you only had to watch Flash vs Kal last night to see the excitement still left in this twelve year old game!
IndecisivePenguin
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States771 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 06:59:15
April 15 2010 06:49 GMT
#5
While I have great respect for those who can prove their point through fact, I have even more for those who prove it through passion. Excellent post. I can honestly say that I thoroughly enjoyed it, and I think you tapped into something of all of us in some way or another.

And even if BW does simmer down a bit, so what? We had the most amazing f-in run of our lives with this monster of a game. It is and never will stop being the best freakin RTS game in history. I have high hopes that SC2 will birth us a new game of potential, tha can bring us all the joys, sorrows, ups, downs that BW has brought to each of us. It's too early to tell, but we'll never forget what BW has done to each of us, individually and as a community.
omahahowitzer
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States98 Posts
April 15 2010 06:52 GMT
#6
Amazing write-up, huge props and loved the videos even though bisu broke my <3 that game
FusionCutter
Profile Joined October 2004
Canada974 Posts
April 15 2010 06:52 GMT
#7
On April 15 2010 15:32 Musoeun wrote:
Between the accusations of cheating in the Korean scene and the advent of Starcraft II, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Starcraft will die." I don't know why they think that. Some seem to think the integrity of the game is ruined. This is so much nonsense.


What about the War3 unit rigging scandal that killed competitive War3 in Korea?
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 15 2010 06:54 GMT
#8
Brood War fucking rules and nothing can change that.
May the BeSt man win.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3156 Posts
April 15 2010 07:12 GMT
#9
I love this article. Broodwar is amazing, no petty shit like this scandal is going to stop it.
Trap
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States395 Posts
April 15 2010 07:14 GMT
#10
More people I know have gotten interested in the Korean BW scene after they read about the gambling fiasco.
coffeetoss | "Team Liquid Fantasy Proleague: Tales of Miserable Failure and Deep Regret" -Kanil
RainmanMP
Profile Joined October 2007
United States1698 Posts
April 15 2010 07:20 GMT
#11
You are the best Vee. Such a good article
이영호 FIGHTING! Die Hard KT Rolster and Flash fan.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
April 15 2010 07:27 GMT
#12
Good article but I still hope korean BW doesn't die

Like can you imagine some point in the future there is no korean BW and no MSL no OSL no proleague? What sporting event would I follow? Who would I root for? How would I waste all my free time?
brood war for life, brood war forever
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
April 15 2010 07:30 GMT
#13
On April 15 2010 15:52 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 15:32 Musoeun wrote:
Between the accusations of cheating in the Korean scene and the advent of Starcraft II, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Starcraft will die." I don't know why they think that. Some seem to think the integrity of the game is ruined. This is so much nonsense.


What about the War3 unit rigging scandal that killed competitive War3 in Korea?

war3 was never as popular and loved a game as SC:BW in korea
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
excess1ve
Profile Joined January 2008
United States359 Posts
April 15 2010 07:42 GMT
#14
Absolutely right on the fact that BW always comes back, I'll play it, suck balls, get mad and then go onto another game only to find myself crawling back to BW because it has staying power. The game can bring out an array of emotions, whether you suck or your good, it's just always going to be there regardless of what happens in the future.
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
April 15 2010 07:43 GMT
#15
On April 15 2010 16:30 TheAntZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 15:52 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
On April 15 2010 15:32 Musoeun wrote:
Between the accusations of cheating in the Korean scene and the advent of Starcraft II, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Starcraft will die." I don't know why they think that. Some seem to think the integrity of the game is ruined. This is so much nonsense.


What about the War3 unit rigging scandal that killed competitive War3 in Korea?

war3 was never as popular and loved a game as SC:BW in korea


Well we'll see. "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger." If BW comes out of this alive, and it's likely it will, it'll emerge stronger than before, learning and growing from the pains and doubts.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
prosatan
Profile Joined September 2009
Romania8024 Posts
April 15 2010 07:55 GMT
#16
Nice writeup mate!
I know for sure that I will play BW forever and ever!
Lee JaeDong Fighting! The only church that illuminates is the one that burns.
HaruHaru
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States988 Posts
April 15 2010 08:05 GMT
#17
I share your feelings :/
May BW continue on despite sc2
Long live BroodWar!
endy
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Switzerland8970 Posts
April 15 2010 08:18 GMT
#18
I'll still play BW when I'll be 70yo.
Im just afraid that after the match fixing scandal, Starleagues can't find sponsors anymore. It was already hard for the MSL to find one.
ॐ
rugmonkey
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom126 Posts
April 15 2010 11:16 GMT
#19
Really great write up. What is it like in korea? Is support dwindling there?
riptide
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
5673 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 11:41:53
April 15 2010 11:40 GMT
#20
You got me at the Firefly quote. Great read! Into the spotlight.

Btw T1 fans represent. ^
AdministratorSKT T1 | Masters of the Universe
wiesel
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany727 Posts
April 15 2010 11:53 GMT
#21
nice writeup, broodwar can't be stopped.
wassbix
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada499 Posts
April 15 2010 12:00 GMT
#22
On April 15 2010 15:43 jpak wrote:
Great read. I, too, believe Starcraft 2 will be a HUGE success, because there's already a strong community around the game. It's people like us who make the games so great. There are games with better designs, mechanics, and graphics than SC1 or 2. But a game is only truly great when we the fans lift it to that pedestal.

Well done, sir.


CS Source had a huge fanbase too. In the end Source scene kinda died while CS 1.6 is still played competitively and leisurely. So I don't think SC:BW being big will mean SC2 will succeed, it might even harm it as players return to it instead of embracing SC2.

Zona
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
40426 Posts
April 15 2010 12:09 GMT
#23
While BW won't "die", I do think a ton of players and viewers are leaving the scene.

It's inevitable as part of a video game's lifecycle. BW has already lasted a length of time unmatched by most games.
"If you try responding to those absurd posts every day, you become more damaged. So I pay no attention to them at all." Jung Myung Hoon (aka Fantasy), as translated by Kimoleon
Ohforf
Profile Joined July 2008
Singapore80 Posts
April 15 2010 12:10 GMT
#24
Final Edit anyone?
Deus escreve certo por linhas tortas. L'heroisme tombe au niveau de debrouillage.
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
April 15 2010 12:15 GMT
#25
I think the overall BW fanbase might be alright for a while.
Whilst SC2 brings fan to SC2... it also brings fans to BW. And there will be some bounce-back as SC2 begins to lose the novelty value it has right now.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 12:34:05
April 15 2010 12:31 GMT
#26
On April 15 2010 21:09 Zona wrote:
While BW won't "die", I do think a ton of players and viewers are leaving the scene.

It's inevitable as part of a video game's lifecycle. BW has already lasted a length of time unmatched by most games.

I don't think so. A bw game is still 20x more exciting to watch than Sc2.
Also most of the "top players" leaving the scene are foreigners who were nowehere near close to the top level and would have never achieved anything in the big Korean leagues ( sorry Idra ).
I think that Louder and Inka have even said in an interview that they have switched not because they prefer Sc2 but because there are more opportunities for the foreigners.

Korean broodwar might last for a (long) while.
Cool read btw
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
April 15 2010 12:54 GMT
#27
Really really great post. The Yellow/Bisu game almost brings tears to my eyes.
Chains none
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
April 15 2010 13:01 GMT
#28
Nicely written, very insightful
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
April 15 2010 13:13 GMT
#29
So wait...Kal is an older player? and ZerO is considered newer?

I'm not being facetious, I'm curious.
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
flamewheel
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
April 15 2010 13:16 GMT
#30
This is damn amazing.

Writerdamn, i was two days from retirement
Bwenjarin Raffrack
Profile Joined November 2008
United States322 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 13:22:44
April 15 2010 13:22 GMT
#31
You know what I love about Starcraft?

I love getting up in the middle of the night to watch Korean teenagers play a video game a world away, doing things I could never hope to. I love seeing their first-person views and becoming light-headed, dizzy, and nauseated. I love the nostalgia, the old and new heroes. I love the silly spacesuit past and the commentators who never lost their spacesuit spirit when they scream in words I can't even understand. I love that I have no idea what they're saying, and I love that I love it regardless. I love rooting for my favorite players and booing my favorite villains. I love the games, both close nail-biters and utter routs. I love this community that supports and embraces such a strange obsession with news write-ups, translations, streams, commentaries, encyclopedias, and great posts from other addicts like the OP.

Starcraft 2 may come into its own, but will it have the same lasting Brood War brouhaha? Will it be as good, as balanced, as fun, as dramatic, or as Korean as Brood War? I don't know, but until then I can shrug off scandals without a care as long as I can see people playing this amazing game. Too strong to die? Too amazing to die. Vive le Starcraft!
I'm not as thunk as dreople pink I am.
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
April 15 2010 13:29 GMT
#32
You are fucking amazing sir. I wish I could rate this blog a 5/5 if I could. This was awesome.

I have Starcraft 2, and while it's a great game, I still come back to BW. It's really sad when I log onto ICCup and see all the major clan channels that were once filled with players now empty. Starcraft is one of those games I hope that will live on forever. I still play with my friend over hamachi on a daily basis just because we love the game so much!

Long live Brood War!
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
April 15 2010 13:29 GMT
#33
On April 15 2010 22:13 DivinO wrote:
So wait...Kal is an older player? and ZerO is considered newer?

I'm not being facetious, I'm curious.

Yeah Kal's been around for awhile iirc.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
April 15 2010 13:34 GMT
#34
SCII wont die until its 2 expansions have been out for a few years. and then THATS WHEN BW WILL STRIKE BACK >:D
boomer hands
nozaro33
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Taiwan1819 Posts
April 15 2010 13:38 GMT
#35
very nice write up, I will always love and play Starcraft
#1 Flash / #2 NaDa / #3 Stats fan / KT fan for life
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
April 15 2010 13:54 GMT
#36
It's true, and it needed to be said. Well done.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Toads
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1795 Posts
April 15 2010 14:00 GMT
#37
Wow nice read :O

When i open this thread i was sure i would read something like '' all of this is because of Starcraft 2 bla bla bla this game sucks why people play it '' But no

I totaly agree with you if blizzard keep up his good work, probably starcraft 2 will be as good of starcraft brood war or better !! Who know
(。◕ ω ◕。) Beer Time !!!! (。◕ ω ◕。)
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9502 Posts
April 15 2010 14:18 GMT
#38
Never once I could relate more to the article like this one before. Beautifully written and once I've read a Firefly quote I was in ecstasy.

I don't know what else to say other than pleaseeee make this a Final Edits!
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 14:35:17
April 15 2010 14:20 GMT
#39
Amazing article, played about 50 games of beta on my account and now i'm back on iccup. BW for life!
Yhamm is the god of predictions
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
April 15 2010 14:27 GMT
#40
Broodwar forever
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
April 15 2010 14:30 GMT
#41
excellent article, i agree w/ you 100%!
iSiN
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1075 Posts
April 15 2010 14:33 GMT
#42
When people say broodwar is dying they don't mean that the game is fading away or anything merely that prizes and tournaments are shifting. Everyone agrees starcraft is the best game ever made and we only hope that SC2 will be a worthy adversary not a replacement.

However very nice write up and a good read.
Grouty @HoN/PCKJ <--<333 || Jaedong Fan Cafe GFX
Kragx
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark236 Posts
April 15 2010 14:35 GMT
#43
On April 15 2010 21:00 wassbix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 15:43 jpak wrote:
Great read. I, too, believe Starcraft 2 will be a HUGE success, because there's already a strong community around the game. It's people like us who make the games so great. There are games with better designs, mechanics, and graphics than SC1 or 2. But a game is only truly great when we the fans lift it to that pedestal.

Well done, sir.


CS Source had a huge fanbase too. In the end Source scene kinda died while CS 1.6 is still played competitively and leisurely. So I don't think SC:BW being big will mean SC2 will succeed, it might even harm it as players return to it instead of embracing SC2.


However as it is now, and i think it's the trend, CS Source is slowly taking over, as the 1.6 players are become more focused on other things (real life/studies etc), and the "new generation" won't start a game that old. At least this goes for the majority in Denmark, and other places i believe. Something similar is probably going to happen for SC/SC2 in the long run.
k!llua
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia895 Posts
April 15 2010 14:37 GMT
#44
Re. 1.6/Source comparison:

Source came out at a time when 1.6 was still quite popular and was growing in tournaments around the world, particularly in Asia (WEG, for example).

BW has pretty much stagnated, if not died out, outside of Korea. So I think SC2 will be a catalyst for a lot of returning fans and a generation of newer gamers.

If Blizzard have coded the game to allow for things like high ground advantage and they can eliminate that STUPID "is being revealed" mechanic then things should be fine. Balance will come in time; BW wasn't perfect upon release.

Exciting times, exciting times.
my hair is a wookie, your argument is invalid
fishyjoes
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Germany644 Posts
April 15 2010 15:52 GMT
#45
This should be a blog because i want to give you five stars for this post.
infinite fun: http://dagobah.biz/flash/loituma.swf
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9021 Posts
April 15 2010 16:45 GMT
#46
Amazing post.
jpak
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States5045 Posts
April 15 2010 16:53 GMT
#47
If there is ONE thing I have apprehensions about, it's the fact that there will be no LAN play. But I'm not going to jump to hasty conclusions about that.
CJ Entusman #50! #1 클템 fan TL!
Djabanete
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States2786 Posts
April 15 2010 16:54 GMT
#48
On April 15 2010 22:13 DivinO wrote:
So wait...Kal is an older player? and ZerO is considered newer?

I'm not being facetious, I'm curious.

Kal started making an impact a lot earlier than ZerO did, regardless of who actually became a progamer first... Recall that Jaedong's first MSL win, back in late 2007, was against Kal in the finals.
May the BeSt man win.
Armathai
Profile Joined October 2007
1023 Posts
April 15 2010 16:55 GMT
#49
Legendary Post!

It really sums up everything to love about BW and to look forward to in SC2!
Looking for ArcticCerebrate formerly from @USEast
Gargoth
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden13 Posts
April 15 2010 17:35 GMT
#50
Nice post, i will read it again, very well done
C0rrupt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States57 Posts
April 15 2010 17:57 GMT
#51
May broodwar live on
The corruption has begun
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8098 Posts
April 15 2010 18:02 GMT
#52
I like this article a lot. I really hope that if SC2 isn't all that it needs to be everyone will be coming back to BW. I really dont want to be stuck playing an inferior game for the next 12 years.
Free Palestine
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
April 15 2010 18:18 GMT
#53
Good stuff. But Calm's not mediocre...-fanrage-
TranslatorBaa!
Rantech
Profile Joined April 2010
Chile527 Posts
April 15 2010 18:39 GMT
#54
great article, very nice writing.

And ppl should go and watch some vods, the game is still "perfect" and "balanced" and its still awesome. The magic is still there. Personally i enjoy watching 2006 -2010 vods, they're still exciting to watch.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9502 Posts
April 15 2010 19:40 GMT
#55
On April 15 2010 23:37 k!llua wrote:
Re. 1.6/Source comparison:

Source came out at a time when 1.6 was still quite popular and was growing in tournaments around the world, particularly in Asia (WEG, for example).

BW has pretty much stagnated, if not died out, outside of Korea. So I think SC2 will be a catalyst for a lot of returning fans and a generation of newer gamers.

If Blizzard have coded the game to allow for things like high ground advantage and they can eliminate that STUPID "is being revealed" mechanic then things should be fine. Balance will come in time; BW wasn't perfect upon release.

Exciting times, exciting times.


Wasn't Beta released like 2 weeks after TSL 2 ?
Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
DreaM)XeRO
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Korea (South)4667 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-15 20:05:29
April 15 2010 19:48 GMT
#56
great writeup. and i agree
no matter if the scene dies
i will still be on iccup
trying to hit that ever elusive A
cw)minsean(ru
Arrian
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States889 Posts
April 15 2010 20:09 GMT
#57
great piece, great points, great read

I love to see people putting stuff together like this. loved the firefly quote too
Writersator arepo tenet opera rotas
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
April 15 2010 20:17 GMT
#58
Eh? Since when are guys like Kal and ForGG old?

God I feel dated. "Old" should mean Garimto or Giyom or H.O.T-Forever or TheMarine. In my mind, anyone who hasn't seen those guys play live is "new" to the game. :/
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
April 15 2010 21:12 GMT
#59
On April 16 2010 05:17 Mortality wrote:
Eh? Since when are guys like Kal and ForGG old?

God I feel dated. "Old" should mean Garimto or Giyom or H.O.T-Forever or TheMarine. In my mind, anyone who hasn't seen those guys play live is "new" to the game. :/


Well they've been progamers for nearly (?) 4 years now, which is pretty "old" for most n00bs like me (started watching in 2008 lawl)

This article was pretty inspirational and well-written... kudos. Still, I feel like the reason why some of those things you named (soccer, etc.; you could probably talk about things like chess too) have lived on is because they are ... "irl" things. Of course computer gaming is still young, so who knows? Maybe online entertainment will totally supplant irl entertainment, especially when computers become cheap enough for almost everyone to afford them. By then, we'll just have to hope our systems are backwards-compatible enough to play BW
Writer
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
April 15 2010 21:58 GMT
#60
great read
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
seRapH
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9756 Posts
April 15 2010 22:18 GMT
#61
On April 15 2010 23:37 k!llua wrote:
Re. 1.6/Source comparison:

Source came out at a time when 1.6 was still quite popular and was growing in tournaments around the world, particularly in Asia (WEG, for example).

BW has pretty much stagnated, if not died out, outside of Korea. So I think SC2 will be a catalyst for a lot of returning fans and a generation of newer gamers.


bw was having a massive influx of new players because sc2 beta was being released. i mean months before the actual release
boomer hands
vindKtiv
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States215 Posts
April 16 2010 00:49 GMT
#62
I loved the article. Who knows, maybe 15 years from now people will STILL be playing StarCraft 1 on their Windows emulator, and there will STILL be a competitive pro-scene. Heck, SC1 lasted for many years despite fierce competition from Dawn of War, WarCraft III, SupCom, and all these other RTS games. Why should StarCraft suddenly die out just because of another game on the market, even if they share the same name?
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
April 16 2010 00:52 GMT
#63
On April 16 2010 07:18 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 23:37 k!llua wrote:
Re. 1.6/Source comparison:

Source came out at a time when 1.6 was still quite popular and was growing in tournaments around the world, particularly in Asia (WEG, for example).

BW has pretty much stagnated, if not died out, outside of Korea. So I think SC2 will be a catalyst for a lot of returning fans and a generation of newer gamers.


bw was having a massive influx of new players because sc2 beta was being released. i mean months before the actual release

More like two years, heh
ranma1202
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Vietnam62 Posts
April 16 2010 01:52 GMT
#64
Dude, this is so inspirational. And I'm doing the same thing as you say. My little brother is 10, and he suck at SC, saving all 1v1 game vs comp on BGH that he won like it's a big achivement. But seeing that makes me happy, reminds me of those days where I used bunch of cheats to win vs comp. I will teach him play, though I'm only a D/D+. I'll show him all the magic of all the races, so that he can truly see why SC lives on. My daughter is 4 months old right now, and when I play SC I let her watch me, hopping she'll be TossGirl someday lol.
Life is a game, and when things dont work out, dont unplug, just reset and restart from last checkpoint.
dangots0ul
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States919 Posts
April 16 2010 02:30 GMT
#65
plz, TL, put this on spotlight!!

great read.
i type teamliquid into the url subconsciously... all...the...time...
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
April 16 2010 02:44 GMT
#66
On April 15 2010 21:10 Ohforf wrote:
Final Edit anyone?


Seconded. This is FE material
peidongyang
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada2084 Posts
April 16 2010 03:03 GMT
#67
Some businesses are just too big to fall..

Oh wait..

Anyways, TL experiencing crazy load again lol.

Nice writeup, hope you get C some day!
the throws never bothered me anyway
ohN
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1075 Posts
April 16 2010 03:12 GMT
#68
Great post.
Sc2 just isn't as great as BW
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
April 16 2010 03:29 GMT
#69
Thanks for all the compliments, guys! Means a ton.

I do want to take a minute to respond to one particular post. There are others like it, but this one sums it up nicely:

On April 16 2010 12:12 ohN wrote:
Great post.
Sc2 just isn't as great as BW


I emphatically not saying this. To my mind, as I try to look long-term - which was one of the huge themes of this post, and if I didn't get that across I may not have "failed" but certainly I didn't quite succeed - SC2 so far is not so much a new game in the way Dawn of War was a new game. It's the same game. I know the units are different and some mechanics are different - hear me out. SC2 is more equivalent to a rules change: Blizzard has consciously tried to make a successor in gameplay, spirit, and quality to the magnificence that is SC:BW. Only time will tell if this "rules change" will stick and make the game better or worse. It is far too early to say if they're good or bad yet. Comparing the two games at this point - and saying SC2 is worse - is like going into preseason friendly matches and saying some rules change about a coin flip or tackling sucks because your team scored under their average.

It's not that I don't sympathize with the reaction, it's just way premature.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
iNfeRnaL *
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
Germany1908 Posts
April 16 2010 03:41 GMT
#70
Very, very good read.
And personally I do think that SC2 won't ever get as good as BW, that's why I'm kind of sad to let BW go for now but I still got hope that the community can make something maybe as good as out of SC2.
Maybe my hopes will come true if our community delivers again as it did with BW, because after all it was US that made the game so great.
2Pacalypse-
Profile Joined October 2006
Croatia9502 Posts
April 16 2010 15:16 GMT
#71
On April 16 2010 12:41 iNfeRnaL wrote:
Very, very good read.
And personally I do think that SC2 won't ever get as good as BW, that's why I'm kind of sad to let BW go for now but I still got hope that the community can make something maybe as good as out of SC2.
Maybe my hopes will come true if our community delivers again as it did with BW, because after all it was US that made the game so great.

I actually noticed you are more active in our BGH community after SC2 was released (actually whole BGH community seems more active now) so, in a way, I'm grateful for SC2 -.-

Moderator"We're a community of geniuses because we've found how to extract 95% of the feeling of doing something amazing without actually doing anything." - Chill
yupyup
Profile Joined June 2009
Philippines36 Posts
April 16 2010 16:54 GMT
#72
Very great post. <3'd the quote at the end
ohh the fanboyism.
Squeegy
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland1166 Posts
April 16 2010 18:13 GMT
#73
On April 15 2010 15:52 Liquid_Turbo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 15 2010 15:32 Musoeun wrote:
Between the accusations of cheating in the Korean scene and the advent of Starcraft II, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Starcraft will die." I don't know why they think that. Some seem to think the integrity of the game is ruined. This is so much nonsense.


What about the War3 unit rigging scandal that killed competitive War3 in Korea?


WoW and SC are not comparable.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly. Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
MaRiNe23
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States747 Posts
April 16 2010 20:22 GMT
#74
I skimmed like the first two pages and I'm so glad there are people that still side with BW. Was scared everyone moved onto sc2.
We have competitive ladder, strong community, progaming in Korea going strong, perfectly balanced game..why do we need sc2? #1 ANTI-SC2 fan
Totoro
Profile Joined January 2003
France479 Posts
April 16 2010 22:17 GMT
#75
I don't post a lot, but i have to put at least one message on this GREAT article. Musoeun, you put so much love in your text that it makes all of us connected. Yes, SC:BW is a game. What makes good games are players, or community as you said it. And as long as there will be people remembering their love, their past memories, their so-unique-10years-lasting passion for this game, it will not die.

Long Lives Starcraft!

(and sorry for my bad english ahah)
=^-^=
Hellie
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden94 Posts
April 20 2010 02:51 GMT
#76
Registered and delurked to say "Bless you", Musoeun. This article gave me a fuzzy feeling inside.
It's the least I can do.
seppolevne
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada1681 Posts
April 20 2010 06:00 GMT
#77
Read this when it was first posted, but didn't comment. Just like to say that I absolutely loved it and it made me feel fuzzy inside. Great read.
J- Pirate Udyr WW T- Pirate Riven Galio M- Galio Annie S- Sona Lux -- Always farm, never carry.
imabowl
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada23 Posts
April 20 2010 07:47 GMT
#78
Amazing article! I've had doubts about SC2 overtaking SC1 until a week ago, a friend suggested I watch Youtube videos from Hdstarcraft and Husky. I am ashamed to say this, but those videos are as fun to watch as sc1 videos. Now I can see SC2 overtaking BW, but there definitely will always be tons of people there to play BW competitively or just a few games for nostalgia. Even if BW somehow died, we will all have fond memories of zergling rushes or massing carriers. Its pretty awesome how 10+ years later BW is still huge.
i play on iccup under the same name
Rucky
Profile Joined February 2008
United States717 Posts
April 20 2010 08:03 GMT
#79
Touched.

I'm praying for sc to be apart of history too.
Beyond the Game
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
April 20 2010 08:15 GMT
#80
Somebody get this man a drink. And a star.

I'm going to go catch up on the last two weeks of matches.
CursOr
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States6335 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 08:44:40
April 20 2010 08:38 GMT
#81
I could easily see SC1 comming back and phasing out SC2 about 3 years after release. I don't think its the most likely thing to happen, but it's certainly in the realm of possibility.
It all depends on the final release of SC2 and what ends up happening in the hands of the real Pro-Gamers. A little more micro oriented- than it appears to me in Beta would probably be desireable. Everyone knows BoxeR and his micro really brought SC:BW to life. It will be really interesting to see what pros are doing with this game- a year after release.
Will we see if the game take on those slow evolutions that BW did? Shifts in race dominance over months and years... and a deep evolving of tactics across all phases of the game... (Early, Mid and End)
CJ forever (-_-(-_-(-_-(-_-)-_-)-_-)-_-)
Enderbantoo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States465 Posts
April 20 2010 08:42 GMT
#82
Epic firefly quote
At the biggest upset of all of bw, Shanghai SPL finals 2011
Getz
Profile Joined April 2010
United States559 Posts
April 20 2010 09:42 GMT
#83
Starcraft is already a part of history and shall never die.
스타크래프트
Crimson)S(hadow
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Philippines552 Posts
April 20 2010 10:09 GMT
#84
you put iris in the same light as july and nada? honestly i don't think if iris can even be called a legend, let alone be put in the same light as reach. has he even won anything accountable? only legends like boxer and oov should be put in the same light as july and nada
"It's the end of the BW era which i devoted everything to for 10 years. I tried playing sc2, but my BW memories run too deep; I felt like I was playing an entirely different game" -ToSsGirL
eXNewB
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada291 Posts
April 20 2010 11:39 GMT
#85
Stop lying to yourselves. You know this game is gonna flop~~~ People will try to make it work for couple years than they'll realize it's just not SC, and they're gonna wish they never had this stupid idea
THERES NO WAY HE CAN STOP THOSE HYDRAS!
Dr. Tran
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States125 Posts
April 20 2010 13:46 GMT
#86
5/5
Represent \m/
DskXplorr
Profile Joined March 2009
United States44 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-20 14:16:13
April 20 2010 14:16 GMT
#87
Wow, I almost cried while reading this, but I can't since l'm in a classroom with 20 other people who would laugh at the sight of a guy crying over his favorite game. As long as we all keep playing this game, Starcraft will never die. GG
When one person dies, another is born, but when a marine dies, we thank the zerg.
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