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Changes:
- Increase size of the mains.
- Slightly increased the size of the choke point at the 3rd gas.
For PvT I would recommend killing the temples before the Terran moves out to take his 3rd gas, so you will have more room to flank. To be honest, I think if you do this you have more than enough room for a successful attack.
Efreet 2.2 Melee Download
Efreet 2.2 OBs Download
+ Show Spoiler [Version 2.1] +Changes: - Changed mains mineral/gas formation to prevent sieging it from below to for positional issues. - Changed low resource expo to put it on the other side of the path(by tar) - Also fixed a couple minor things I forgot to do on earlier versions. Efreet 2.1 Melee Download
+ Show Spoiler [Version 2.0] +Changes: - Changed width of the map from x128 to x96, so obviously lots of obvious changes along the sides. - Changed the 5th expo location to on the cliff. - Made mains smaller as well as distance to natural. - A few other minor things for wallin issues and such Efreet 2.0 Melee Download
+ Show Spoiler [Version 1.1] +Changes:- Purple circle: 2 power generators(destructible) added to help narrow the naturals choke(also extended the cliff a bit that makes up the other side of the naturals choke - Blue circle: Narrowed the terrain some more here for help defending your 3rd gas - Green circle: 3 Temples(destructible) added to narrow the large ramp. Helps defend the 3rd more easily as well. - Yellow circle: Edited terrain where Julmust suggested. - White & red circle: Expo at white circle was moved to where the red one is. - Black circle: Shortened the ramp here like Julmust suggested. Of course I changed the same things for the other side, it would just be pointless to point everything out twice. Efreet 1.1 Melee download
+ Show Spoiler [Version 1.0] +
This is going to be my map submission for TL Arena V, so please critique and comment, so if it gets pick it will be as enjoyable as possible ^_^
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shit, one of the expos is missing a gas, fixing at the moment
edit: fixed
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Best summon evar imo. Hellfire ftw.
From what I see, this looks like a terran map, if all those ledges in the mains and natural, are droppable, not to mention how much high ground there is? Incredbly open natural is going to make it hard to wall for PvZ, or I'm just bad a sizing it up but those look like huge gaps there. This looks very similar to moon glaive, in how you can basically siege your opponents ramp/main base while still not being in their natural. Actually I don't think you can do that in moon glaive.
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um..-_ -...... maybe you need to consider pvz?,,, as a toss player i dunno how the hell i am gonna double nex with such a wide entrance + huge space on the expo.. its just simply impossible to neither double nex nor go 1 gate ..
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Very expansion heavy. Gogo Flash style.
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United States4796 Posts
Expansion heavy, which I like. Unfortunately very easy for terran to siege against natural and secondary.
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I think the point is to make it difficult for toss. Its a protoss player in the Arena remember. Want to make it as difficult as possible for them 
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Went in-game and took a couple screenshots:
PvZ forge FE.
Hmm. I supposed I could extend the compound to be a little closer if the nat entrance size still appears to be an issue.
Distance from nat entrance to cliff.
Rather large actually IMO, and this is with protoss buildings sticking out even more like a forge FE which you would never have.
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its nice yo
yeah the natural choke should be smaller...
like standard size, so the terran can wall with rax + 2 supplies
edit: nvm just tested on single player
terran can do standard wall out natural...
the chokes always seem too big, yet when you test it out the wall always works..
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Because of the low resource numbers and resource count in them , then mineral only @ 12 & 6 are intended for 3rds most commonly, or you could extend yourself a little further and take the gas expansions in the corners instead.
Yes there is a lot of high ground, so I made sure there were multiple paths for flanking and that there were places Terran cannot build mass turrets/walls. I hope it sort of evens out. As you can tell from the in-game screenshots, the distance and size comparison are actually pretty big compared to the picture in the OP, so there aren't exactly small chokepoints for Terran t abuse either. I also ensured that Terran cannot tank the 3/9 expos from the mains or from the middle either, so it should only be a major thread if you someone allow him to waltz right up to your expansion.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
very interesting! i really like the deceptively vulnerable third gas. i could see this map being a lot of fun in tvp and tvz
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in PvZ it looks like this map was made for hydra breaks. the open space outside the natural lets you fit a bunch more hydras than usual to break.
as for TvP, i'm trying to figure out how a terran's supposed to take a 3rd gas. the one at 11 has waaay too big of a choke to defend at the point in the game when you need to take it, and the inner 12 has high grounds to either side of it, with a moderate choke leading straight to it. it doesnt seem possible, and terrans with 2gas and a min only aren't going to be able to fight too well against 3gas +min only toss. vulture play does look quite plausible, with such huge chokes everywhere and various highgrounds to abuse mines with, but it doesnt quite make up for the fact that terrans can't play defensively, which is their biggest strength.
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On January 27 2010 12:21 Nal_rAwr wrote:
its nice yo
yeah the natural choke should be smaller...
like standard size, so the terran can wall with rax + 2 supplies
edit: nvm just tested on single player
terran can do standard wall out natural...
the chokes always seem too big, yet when you test it out the wall always works..
Actually Terran can wall with 1 barracks 2 rax at the natural and main currently. You'd be surprised from the screenshots, but I just tested it lol
edit: oh you ninja edited me =]
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On January 27 2010 12:30 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
in PvZ it looks like this map was made for hydra breaks. the open space outside the natural lets you fit a bunch more hydras than usual to break.
as for TvP, i'm trying to figure out how a terran's supposed to take a 3rd gas. the one at 11 has waaay too big of a choke to defend at the point in the game when you need to take it, and the inner 12 has high grounds to either side of it, with a moderate choke leading straight to it. it doesnt seem possible, and terrans with 2gas and a min only aren't going to be able to fight too well against 3gas +min only toss. vulture play does look quite plausible, with such huge chokes everywhere and various highgrounds to abuse mines with, but it doesnt quite make up for the fact that terrans can't play defensively, which is their biggest strength.
Possibly add neutral temples/generators on the huge curved ramp at the 3rd gasses to make it less vulnerable?
Could help with ZvT as well, since it's helpful to have a choke at your 3rd gas as well.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
The distance CC-ramp feels kind of long. Only played vs cpu so far but seems like a fun map.
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Can't imagine how zerg will be able to take a third gas in ZvT if going 3 hatch muta. Although I like the effort for symmetry. With a few tweeks I think it has a lot of potential.
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nvm lol just noticed it's 2 player map ;D.
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wow that's a low of expos.
i'm not sure what to call the gas in the top left, cause the one below it is the 10 o'clock expo and 11 o'clock is a min only.
My first thought was that this is a very strong mech map, mostly because of the gas 3rd in easy push distance, and all the siege-able expos right in tank range from high ground. However, it with all the wide ramps I can see a few areas that can destroy a push pretty easily. The middle low ground (the L area) has 4 different flanks that can all be reached pretty easily. On the reverse, if they can get tanks on the high ground outside their naturals (the J area), it's pretty much over. so a mech push is either going to be very strong or very weak, depending on how easy it is to kill off the push before it gets into position.
The only gripe i have is it looks like this will be terrible for toss. pvz has an easily hydra bust-able natural, and an open area you have to go through that's murder for a push, without the benefit of having siege tanks. pvt has a bunch of expos begging to be sieged, and a nat that's easy to contain with tanks but not with goons.
had lots of fun with the map, but I can see it being absolute murder for toss. throw them a bone or two (like a high ground natural, they love those) and it'll be great
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nice map although i hate terrans
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Naturals don't seem balanced; the 12 o'clock is more Toss friendly than the 6.
I feel like a lot of 2hatch play here 
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If it's for TL Arena, you might want to make a second version where it's a bit biased for one player. Then you can use UMS to force certain spawning points for specific people.
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ok so just having the look at the map here are the changes I think should be done (two options)
Black line: remove ramp, aka. highground only
Grey circle: Make terrain unsiegable
White circle with black line: move position of base
since this is a mirror map I just changed one side of the map
Option 1:
+ Show Spoiler +
Option 2:
+ Show Spoiler +
I feel this should balance out ZvT since zerg now has a EASIER 3rd gas but still have two (rather large) chokes to defend, and with option 1 you can siege tanks and make it even harder (but still not impossible) to defend.
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Nice map!
The lack of open area makes it hard for zerg to go hydra lurk in ZvP. Storm just rapes in all those small chokes.
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I like Julmust's suggestions. I also think that the natural expo choke is a bit wide and not desirable for any Protoss matchups.
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On January 27 2010 12:32 Grobyc wrote:
Actually Terran can wall with 1 barracks 2 rax at the natural and main currently. You'd be surprised from the screenshots, but I just tested it lol
edit: oh you ninja edited me =]
3 barracks to wall? Sounds like a wide choke to me!
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Julmust Bo7 let's go
edit: we can't play this map. We can both play vs cpu fine but when we join it together we both drop. Tried with a 3rd person too and same problem. Get it fixed newbie
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You should narrow out the choke to the natural with a destructible building of some kind. Otherwise it looks pretty stellar.
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Nice going! As so many have been saying, few tweaks and then it'll be good enough for an OSL! :D
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Looking into some of the suggestions at the moment.
On January 27 2010 23:46 Pholon wrote:Julmust Bo7 let's go edit: we can't play this map. We can both play vs cpu fine but when we join it together we both drop. Tried with a 3rd person too and same problem. Get it fixed newbie
Hmm... I'm not sure why that is :S
I'll take a look.
EDIT: When I open it up with the regular SC editor it says I have one misplaced unit, so I might have accidentally added something that bugged it like that.
I'll be reuploading it shortly.
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Belgium9947 Posts
looks like a perfect map for an 8rax into vult build
long distance from main to nat and not so easy to defend natural choke
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United States7166 Posts
this seems retardedly hard for PvT,
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Update:
Changes:
- Purple circle: 2 power generators(destructible) added to help narrow the naturals choke(also extended the cliff a bit that makes up the other side of the naturals choke
- Blue circle: Narrowed the terrain some more here for help defending your 3rd gas
- Green circle: 3 Temples(destructible) added to narrow the large ramp. Helps defend the 3rd more easily as well.
- Yellow circle: Edited terrain where Julmust suggested.
- White & red circle: Expo at white circle was moved to where the red one is.
- Black circle: Shortened the ramp here like Julmust suggested.
Of course I changed the same things for the other side, it would just be pointless to point everything out twice.
Efreet 1.1 Melee download
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i like most of the changes, will have to see how the new chokes to the third gas work out. distances to make a tank line work are much shorter, making PvT a lot more balanced.
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just played the map with pholon, its hard as fuck to play but I enjoyed the hell out of it! (maybe because I won a 35 minute slugfest :D )
anyway this does feel pretty balanced ZvT, zerg has some hard choises to make but that's the challange!
edit:
really like the idea with the temples btw! that could be a big fight. zerg wants to keep them alive for the narrow choke and if terran gets it he's in a world of pain!
overall: loved it!
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Awesome, thanks for trying it out guys
I've only played against computers so far. I'd love to try it out with others sometime today if anyone is willing
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I'm in bed right now so it's a no go from me, sorry :/ but check with pholon when he comes back... if he comes back! he was in a pretty hard ragemode after that loss 
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Hmm looks like it'd be quite favorable for terrans.
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
Seems pretty good except that there is only one ground route between the two mains, which can easily be covered by a few tanks at the cliffs, making it hard for TvZ and TvP.
Also, if you want to tighten the natural's choke with the Power Generators, you should try out all the different walls (depot walls, rax walls, forge/gate walls) because sometimes, lings can pass through the gap between a building and the power generator (iirc, rax on the left and generator on the right isn't ling-proof). To fix that, you have to use unpassable doodads that will fill the gap. (Look at Katrina for one example)
Edit: Also, might wanna make the nat's cliff un-siegeable. Terrans already have it good here :p
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Oh wow beautiful map :D
Very agreed with kona's last oppinion tho xD
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it's a 2 player map?
-____- eh. the tileset kinda turns me off
but the map looks balanced O__O
however since the distances between the mains are so long I think most games on this map are going to turn into a 3-4 base 200/200 dukefest
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On January 28 2010 06:23 Julmust wrote:I'm in bed right now so it's a no go from me, sorry :/ but check with pholon when he comes back... if he comes back! he was in a pretty hard ragemode after that loss
IM NOT DONE WITH YOU YET
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I really like how this map looks like but it seems to be very imbalanced in TvP:
If T decides to take high ground A (which is very likely) than he has 4 save expansions? You'll need Dropships / Recall but since the distances are somewhat close between those expansions this is not an option at all :/ -> GG
Also if Terran manages get to highground B than he cuts the map in 2 halfs with a single push an this makes it impossible for P to connect his Units or to break free because you have to fight uphill:/ -> GG
I'd really like to see an PvZ or TvZ though. Someone got a replay? =)
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Netherlands6142 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Pholon/Efreet.zip
4 games me vs Julmust.
Managed to win none.
Discussion:
+ Show Spoiler +Pholon zegt: ? I dunno what I was doing wrong but Jesper/Julmust zegt: my shoulder is aching lol Pholon zegt: I'm not sure I'm entirely to blame Jesper/Julmust zegt: haha nope that map is sooooo imba for zerg I mean ok you cant get your 4th gas that easy but third is sooo easy liked my swarms did you? Pholon zegt: hm? they were ok Jesper/Julmust zegt: the comment "OH FOR FUCKS SAKE" (think you wrote that) Pholon zegt: oh that I was just pissed off at my control I had 10 raxes going? or something insane and then trying to select rines and hotkeying them and I had an SCV stuck behind a sup dep and everytime I'd go to base I'd see it and be like FFFFUUUUUU °A° Jesper/Julmust zegt: lol but I just want to make this map more balanced... but I dont know how cause its a fun map Pholon zegt: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=110944¤tpage=3 those circles, red and yellow those expos make no sense Jesper/Julmust zegt: how come? Pholon zegt: it's like the middle expo on Andor only it has one choke *Andro and they'refull expansions the templas are a nice touch but like when I tried to take one down you caught on immediately Jesper/Julmust zegt: I was just gonna say he could remove one temple will give a much bigger choke Pholon zegt: 2nd game you'd even put a lurk there preemptively maybe for top left put the left-most temple on the left side er left most to the right Jesper/Julmust zegt: I dunno man... that sounds a bit too tricky. I mean its a third exp, its not suppose to be IMPOSSIBLE do defend Pholon zegt: I'm just really wondering about this "third" "third" on desti Jesper/Julmust zegt: the thing about this map is taht all the fights are located at the sides of the maps, that's what I've noticed. there's hardly any fighting in the middle Pholon zegt: is maybe easier to defend than this one but desti isn't imba Jesper/Julmust zegt: hmm yeah Pholon zegt: well ok lets say I take the min only at 5 and try to push to top left then my army will be out of position and you can get to my third in like 4 ways or smth hey maybe that's it your expos are all on the sides of the maps map* so I have to walk really far to get somewhere and there'really no fighting in the middle as you said Pholon zegt: hmm well the problem here for the terran is that you really cant split the map all that well... cause I mean with zerg its fine if I keep some lurkers here and there, but you need that big ball and that's where the terran wants to fight, the middle since if you move up to the top expo at mid left, I can flank you sooooo well but I dunno, it might just be because we're... BAD lol Pholon zegt: I think the map's too big Jesper/Julmust zegt: but from a zergs POV I can seal off the left off that map soooo easely and get 123456 base Pholon zegt: it's square 128 x 128 how big is oddeye? Jesper/Julmust zegt: same Pholon zegt: hm but for that map all the expansion are closer to your enemy than your main base is Jesper/Julmust zegt: gah I really dont know what to say but I do feel that removing one of the temples at the third gas would make it easier for a terran to push up but at the same time, these games I did go VERY lurker heavy Pholon zegt: no the temples in last game were just a delay but the lurkers defended there anyway Jesper/Julmust zegt: well yeah cause I ran them there once I heard you coming. 5 of them and 1 already planted there. if the leftmost temple was gone I'd just devide them 3 there and 3 in the other choke and that'd delay you even more then the temples Pholon zegt: yes I need to get a third dcanner I missed so many Jesper/Julmust zegt: just a question, for you third couldnt you just take the one gas right outsider your base? get two bunkers up or something? Pholon zegt: nah I did em I got the one north from my nat seriously though don't worry about my money I had plenty lol Jesper/Julmust zegt: now when I come to think of it I think you're right. the problem is the width of the map Pholon zegt: yeah em if you look at that A platform a tank cannon shoot across that is how big it is I wanted to set up defenses there but it's jsut too big Jesper/Julmust zegt: yeah Pholon zegt: I went to black circle but nothing to do there and onto B but I get raped on B flank from two natural sides you don't even have to set it up how about hm if you have square B there'way out of your base on the left and right side none small enough to go as a funnel Jesper/Julmust zegt: ? Pholon zegt: I can't contain-pressure cause you can still get out on all sides Jesper/Julmust zegt: yeah hmm sec Pholon zegt: should I upload our reppack? Jesper/Julmust zegt: do it if you want but I think I might have a solution make the A and B areas smaller, would that help you setting up a contain? but that makes it easier for me to hold them aswell... maybe disconnect them from the path to the third base? like this: http://i47.tinypic.com/25hoeub.png black line = cant move over, grey line = ramp ends here I wont submit it though, since I dont know what the hell I'm talking aout Pholon zegt: no em I atually like the grey line thing maybe connect the platforms left and right of the middle into one still map need less width Jesper/Julmust zegt: well yeah but you cant go in there saying "loldude start over from scratch" Pholon zegt: oh yes I can ok so Jesper/Julmust zegt: haha Pholon zegt: do you want a shit map that noone will play of do I tell you what's up and maybe you wont fuck up as badly next time Jesper/Julmust zegt: haha I like the map as it is right now but upload the reppack first and see what others have to say about it
gl!
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now I should add those are just ideas. I guess they can be worked around
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Yeah it's based on bad D players playing bad TvZs - shouldn't take it too seriously lol
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I'm thinking of making the mains smaller. They're rather big ATM ingame
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Netherlands6142 Posts
remake it for 96 imo. Lose 2 of the side expos and just make the whole thing less wide. If you want it for Arena be sure to have a version (don't care what kind lol) ready in time for a testrun.
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basing off pholon's games, it seems fighting does take place near sides, quite similar to destination. maybe TvZ with mech will be much better balanced?
i'm sure you'd rather have a bio TvZ, but sometimes it just can't be helped =P
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7 bases (6 of them with gas) seems like a shitload to me. Cool design though.
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Netherlands6142 Posts
On January 29 2010 07:56 majesty.k)seRapH wrote:
basing off pholon's games, it seems fighting does take place near sides, quite similar to destination. maybe TvZ with mech will be much better balanced?
i'm sure you'd rather have a bio TvZ, but sometimes it just can't be helped =P
Yea Jul and I discussed how I should probably have done a mid-game Mech switch. It'd be better at holding off the masses of Ultras and you can spend your resources more easily but it'll become even harder to push anywhere.
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Hmm. I think there are way too may expos available for a two player map. I would eliminate either the red circled expo or the yellow one, and then get rid of the min only above the blue circle. It would create more confrontations in a fight for resources.
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
wtf i thought i posted yesterday lol
anyway, posting from school:
Nat needs to be MORE MOOOREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE closer to the main.
Also, the exansion at 3/9, I'll push them a bit further from the 4/10 expansions that are close to the center of the map. Maybe push 3 o'clock's expansion closer to 1 oclock main and the same for the 9 o'clock expansion.
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Update:
fucking massive changes
Changes:
- Changed width of the map from x128 to x96, so obviously lots of obvious changes along the sides.
- Changed the 5th expo location to on the cliff.
- Made mains smaller as well as distance to natural.
- A few other minor things for wallin issues and such
Efreet 2.0 Melee Download
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D:
i liked the last one better. the 3rd gas is now easy as fuck to hold. i'm shouting T imba.
also, isnt it a bit unfair that top's geyser's are nearly all optimal while only bottom's main is?
PvT terrans can secure their 3rd, wait for 3/3 200/200, then push down/up the side of their 3rd, on the low ground, securing a 4th, and get to the platform with a small ramp towards the toss base. simply matter from there to break the base, eventually cutting off the nat from other toss bases. alternatively, they can secure their center platform and have 5 gas, and just overrun the toss that way, but tosses should be able to stop them from doing at least that much.
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
Change the main's mineral/gas formation back and lower (or raise, for 1 o'clock) the starting positions.
Also, the close 2500gas geyser expo should be reverted back to the original position.
Tbh i don't really like the changes, 5 gas Mech Turtle Terran ftw?
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Update
(2)Efreet 2.1
Changes:
- Changed mains mineral/gas formation to prevent sieging it from below to for positional issues.
- Changed low resource expo to put it on the other side of the path(by tar)
- Also fixed a couple minor things I forgot to do on earlier versions.
Efreet 2.1 Melee Download
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Netherlands6142 Posts
Gas placement seems really weird at some expos
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Australia7069 Posts
played this map as P vs a t and got rolled. He pushed up the side, and i had no answer. Also the main feels a bit small tbh.
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Update:
Changes:
- Increase size of the mains.
- Slightly increased the size of the choke point at the 3rd gas.
For PvT I would recommend killing the temples before the Terran moves out to take his 3rd gas, so you will have more room to flank. To be honest, I think if you do this you have more than enough room for a successful attack.
Efreet 2.2 Melee Download
Efreet 2.2 OBs Download
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Looks interesting, gonna try it.
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The gas at the ~3 and ~9 expansions seems out of place.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Downloading it, hope to play a few games on this.
I feel like this community should really try to encourage map making more, the more practice you guys get, the better and better these are going to be, and I think it'd be amazing (not for IdrA) to see these maps used in tournaments, and maybe added to the iccup mappack. Why not?
I was excited to see this used for TL Arena!
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On February 01 2010 14:11 yarkO wrote:
The gas at the ~3 and ~9 expansions seems out of place.
Nah, I intended for it to be like that. Could be a little bit closer, but I wanted to keep it like that. With 6 gases for each player it's not a big deal anyway.
On February 01 2010 14:26 tree.hugger wrote:
Downloading it, hope to play a few games on this.
I feel like this community should really try to encourage map making more, the more practice you guys get, the better and better these are going to be, and I think it'd be amazing (not for IdrA) to see these maps used in tournaments, and maybe added to the iccup mappack. Why not?
I was excited to see this used for TL Arena!
Thanks
I was too. Another map of mine(Crystalized) was used for TL Arena(III I think), which was nice as well.
I've seen a lot of cool maps that are probably far more balanced and fun to play on than a bunch of maps in the iCCup map pack, so I agree with you there too. It would be really cool if some of our maps were used in the TSL or other tournaments of the sort =]
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Just looking at it for 5 seconds...
You realize that Terran mech has FOUR free expos once the high ground is under control right?
But then again, you play Terran.
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More like 3, since it doesn't really cover the 3/9 o clock expos, and no I don't play Terran. I play Protoss...
And there's no way Terran can just blatantly secure that high ground with Protoss knowing. That's a huge area to cover, with lots of room for flanking and spreading units, trust me.
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hm. will try to test, but i'm going to have to scour the earth to find someone to play with me when i can.
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Taking a third looks nearly impossible here. As terran you can position on the big ramp near the natural and essentially split off the opponent's forces there.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Alright, so I played the map a bit, but mostly focused on the early game, which boiled down to focusing on walling-in.
I couldn't get ling tight wall-ins at either main. I could get a zealot tight wall-in at the top main, but I couldn't figure out how to make it work for the bottom expansion: Grobyc's wall in the post below is correct.
+ Show Spoiler +1 o'clock Main - Zealot tight: 7 o'clock Main - See post below.
I could, however get tight wall-ins at both naturals, with only a barracks and depot.
+ Show Spoiler +
I probably made mistakes in here- but if my natural walls are correct, then this map is a mech TvZ map. Mutalisks are absurdly easy to defend against, and the natural can be very easily taken. I don't see what can stop terran from just massing goliaths, then tanks, and splitting the map, a la  sKyHigh v.  hyvaa on Match Point in Winners League...
Here's one more pet peeve: [
+ Show Spoiler +It'd be wonderful to be able to put that depot a space lower as well, so that you don't have to be quite as accurate with your placement. But that's irrelevant.
EDIT: I don't think I've seen a map yet where the response hasn't been "terran imba", but usually in a TvP context, which is just ridiculous. However, I feel as though this is possibly imbalanced in a TvZ context. Zerg doesn't have a lot of options on this map.
EDIT #2: Ahh, yes, you're right the bottom can be walled off.
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Yeah you can't get ling tight wallins at either main. There is a zealot proof wallin at the bottom as well though. You put your barracks to the left of the ramp then a depot to the right diagonally so they are barely touching, and a 2nd depot to the very right of that one.
As for TvZ mech, I'm not too sure how that would go. Could be in favour of Terran, but I haven't seen any games with similarly skilled players play it TvZ with mech. So hard to satisfy every MU :S
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/1886/efreet22.png)
![[image loading]](http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2294/efreet21.png)
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