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On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.
Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing.
Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it?
Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5?
Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines.
I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?
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On December 30 2009 17:14 EvilTeletubby wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 16:59 IdrA wrote:On December 30 2009 16:55 EvilTeletubby wrote:On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:
despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world I know you have a lot of estro bias Dan, but... seriously?? Edit - Not trying to doubt you or take away anything from Really, he's actually been one of my favorite's to watch recently, but I just find that really hard to believe (no pun intended). protip: when people who know something about gaming have opinions, and yours differ from theirs, you should reevaluate your opinions before questioning theirs. Hey Greg, No shit. Was it that hard to figure out I was looking for him to elaborate (which he immediately did)? buthnxforyourprotipthoughgreatlyappreciatedkk.
I hardly consider that a protip and I hardly consider him a pro >_>
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really is really good. i don't think this guy even cheeses. such solid, solid play. if you aren't too much of a stats whore, then definitely look out for this guy next year.
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On December 31 2009 00:52 Mortality wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.
Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing. Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it? Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5? Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines. I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?
WATCH THEM PLAY
his mechanics are head and shoulders above leta's and he plays a very smart, solid style. he has the occasional brain fart attack tvp and there are other minor flaws in his play, but those are minor and easily fixed, and the massive improvement in his performance recently kinda indicates that they are being fixed.
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On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.
Lol... Are you seriously saying that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
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On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already. Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder. what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
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Katowice25012 Posts
On December 30 2009 16:31 ndralcasid wrote:
....hite didn't want a Protoss??
How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.
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On December 31 2009 01:29 heyoka wrote:How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.
That's a joke?
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On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2009 16:40 Empyrean wrote:
If he finds breaking into the A team because of Upmagic and Really difficult, why does he think it'll be any easier competing against go.go and Leta? because it will be. you cant compare those 2 to upmagic and really. despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world, and upmagic is like leta, except hes better. puma is actually one of the most asked-for players to practice vs by top progamers.
How is it possible for foreigners to have a different impression of progamers than Koreans?
My understanding is that we have access to every single pro game that is played... The starleagues, the proleague, even the special events.
So, if there is really all this hidden strength, where is it hidden? How does it show itself if not in actual performance?
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On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already. Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder. what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell) But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
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I remember in that Ret Estro house practice video Sea.really had better mechanics than every other pro-gamer in the house and his speed seemed unreal at times. I can see Really getting very, very good as well based on his recent play. With that in mind I really love watching Leta play. He and Upmagic always do awesome creative stuff that make for entertaining games to watch.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
lol poor puma nobody here gives about him :D err yeah well i've been a Sea.Really fan for a while too, :D not just since he's been doing better this season.
cuz he looks better than most other progamers too :x
hope he keeps up the improvment! :D
oh and yeah the estro practice video.. Really had some sick fast hands lol O _O (along with crazy spamming but still)
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I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
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On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already. Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder. what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell) But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways. well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-
On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad. i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?
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On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-
room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized
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On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already. Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder. what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell) But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways. well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_- Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad. i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?
Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.
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Uhh I stopped reading at pg 4, isnt thread about PuMa???
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On December 31 2009 02:18 o[twist] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_- room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized youre right, in the end, i cant prove that really will become a better player so all we can do is wait and see what happens
Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.
i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?
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I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.
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On December 31 2009 02:22 yhnmk wrote:
I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.
Well, imo, PuMa has the same style as Really, so eStro has a solid terran combo of creativity and macro and Really > PuMa, so it was hard for him to fit in.
On December 31 2009 02:21 We Are Here wrote:
i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?
I dunno, those i've seen were given to me from other progamers.
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EPT
