• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:12
CEST 18:12
KST 01:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview2herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)7Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles0Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League4Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview Weekly Cups (May 18-25): MaxPax wins doubles Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO12 Preview Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Welcome to the External Content forum Mutation # 527 Hell Train The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue
Brood War
General
Every Matchup's Top 5 Winrates (all ASLs & KSLs) Pros React To: ASL S21 Finals BW General Discussion Very long shot - StarCraft x A7X video Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light
Tourneys
[ASL21] Grand Finals Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [BSL22] WB Final & LB Semis - Saturday 21:00 CEST [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Muta micro map competition [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development streaming software
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Customization Drives Loyalty…
TrAiDoS
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2888 users

PuMa to hite SPARKYZ - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
December 30 2009 15:52 GMT
#101
On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.


Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing.



Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it?

Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5?


Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines.

I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 30 2009 16:00 GMT
#102
On December 30 2009 17:14 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:59 IdrA wrote:
On December 30 2009 16:55 EvilTeletubby wrote:
On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:
despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world


I know you have a lot of estro bias Dan, but... seriously??

Edit - Not trying to doubt you or take away anything from Really, he's actually been one of my favorite's to watch recently, but I just find that really hard to believe (no pun intended).

protip:
when people who know something about gaming have opinions, and yours differ from theirs, you should reevaluate your opinions before questioning theirs.


Hey Greg,

No shit. Was it that hard to figure out I was looking for him to elaborate (which he immediately did)? buthnxforyourprotipthoughgreatlyappreciatedkk.


I hardly consider that a protip and I hardly consider him a pro >_>
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
December 30 2009 16:00 GMT
#103
really is really good. i don't think this guy even cheeses. such solid, solid play. if you aren't too much of a stats whore, then definitely look out for this guy next year.
Brood War loyalist
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 30 2009 16:07 GMT
#104
On December 31 2009 00:52 Mortality wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.


Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing.



Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it?

Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5?


Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines.

I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?

WATCH THEM PLAY

his mechanics are head and shoulders above leta's and he plays a very smart, solid style. he has the occasional brain fart attack tvp and there are other minor flaws in his play, but those are minor and easily fixed, and the massive improvement in his performance recently kinda indicates that they are being fixed.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:16:52
December 30 2009 16:14 GMT
#105
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously saying that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:20:15
December 30 2009 16:17 GMT
#106
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
December 30 2009 16:29 GMT
#107
On December 30 2009 16:31 ndralcasid wrote:
....hite didn't want a Protoss??


How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
December 30 2009 16:37 GMT
#108
On December 31 2009 01:29 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:31 ndralcasid wrote:
....hite didn't want a Protoss??


How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.

That's a joke?
Entusman #12
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
December 30 2009 16:44 GMT
#109
On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:40 Empyrean wrote:
If he finds breaking into the A team because of Upmagic and Really difficult, why does he think it'll be any easier competing against go.go and Leta?


because it will be. you cant compare those 2 to upmagic and really.
despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world, and upmagic is like leta, except hes better.

puma is actually one of the most asked-for players to practice vs by top progamers.


How is it possible for foreigners to have a different impression of progamers than Koreans?

My understanding is that we have access to every single pro game that is played... The starleagues, the proleague, even the special events.

So, if there is really all this hidden strength, where is it hidden? How does it show itself if not in actual performance?
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:47:31
December 30 2009 16:47 GMT
#110
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
December 30 2009 16:51 GMT
#111
I remember in that Ret Estro house practice video Sea.really had better mechanics than every other pro-gamer in the house and his speed seemed unreal at times. I can see Really getting very, very good as well based on his recent play. With that in mind I really love watching Leta play. He and Upmagic always do awesome creative stuff that make for entertaining games to watch.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:59:29
December 30 2009 16:58 GMT
#112
lol poor puma nobody here gives about him :D err yeah well i've been a Sea.Really fan for a while too, :D not just since he's been doing better this season.

cuz he looks better than most other progamers too :x

hope he keeps up the improvment! :D

oh and yeah the estro practice video.. Really had some sick fast hands lol O _O (along with crazy spamming but still)
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
December 30 2009 17:05 GMT
#113
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:15:03
December 30 2009 17:12 GMT
#114
On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-

On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
December 30 2009 17:18 GMT
#115
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-


room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:21:59
December 30 2009 17:19 GMT
#116
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-

Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?


Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
December 30 2009 17:20 GMT
#117
Uhh I stopped reading at pg 4, isnt thread about PuMa???
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:27:48
December 30 2009 17:21 GMT
#118
On December 31 2009 02:18 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-


room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized
youre right, in the end, i cant prove that really will become a better player so all we can do is wait and see what happens


Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.

i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
December 30 2009 17:22 GMT
#119
I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:27:04
December 30 2009 17:24 GMT
#120
On December 31 2009 02:22 yhnmk wrote:
I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.

Well, imo, PuMa has the same style as Really, so eStro has a solid terran combo of creativity and macro and Really > PuMa, so it was hard for him to fit in.
On December 31 2009 02:21 We Are Here wrote:
i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?

I dunno, those i've seen were given to me from other progamers.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 255
ProTech74
trigger 48
UpATreeSC 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27814
EffOrt 1276
Horang2 550
Light 417
ggaemo 292
Rush 275
BeSt 262
firebathero 211
Mind 58
Sharp 58
[ Show more ]
ToSsGirL 55
Pusan 38
Movie 27
Dewaltoss 27
Rock 22
Sacsri 20
IntoTheRainbow 19
Terrorterran 18
GoRush 14
sorry 14
Shine 13
Sexy 10
Dota 2
qojqva1469
League of Legends
Reynor52
Counter-Strike
fl0m961
Heroes of the Storm
XaKoH 115
Other Games
hiko934
Liquid`RaSZi841
Mlord642
Dendi529
Beastyqt378
B2W.Neo365
ceh9303
DeMusliM250
Hui .226
ArmadaUGS105
Mew2King72
QueenE57
Trikslyr48
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL303
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 27
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 20
• 80smullet 4
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota244
League of Legends
• Nemesis3616
• Jankos2142
• TFBlade961
Upcoming Events
OSC
2h 49m
Cham vs Percival
ShoWTimE vs Lambo
Krystianer vs sebesdes
Cure vs Babymarine
SKillous vs Arrogfire
Gerald vs MindelVK
goblin vs TBD
Jumy vs HonMonO
Replay Cast
7h 49m
Maestros of the Game
20h 49m
Big Brain Bouts
23h 49m
Shino vs Scarlett
Bly vs DnS
Serral vs ByuN
Replay Cast
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 14h
Lambo vs SHIN
Solar vs Rogue
herO vs Clem
Maestros of the Game
1d 18h
IPSL
1d 23h
ZZZero vs WorsT
Julia vs eOnzErG
BSL
2 days
TerrOr vs Dewalt
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
Maestros of the Game
2 days
OSC
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Artosis
dxtr13 vs Hawk
BSL
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 21
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1

Ongoing

2026 KK StarCraft Pro League
BSL Season 22
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
SCTL 2026 Spring
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: King of Kings
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.