• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:40
CEST 03:40
KST 10:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format12[IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend!1Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back12BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (July 6 - 12): Protoss strike back Serral wins HomeStory Cup 29 Yamato Cup Series Is the larve respawn broken? Interview with an American 16 Year Old Grandmaster
Tourneys
WardiTV Summer Cup 2026 GSL CK #5 Race War RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event HomeStory Cup 29 Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family
Brood War
General
Pros Debate: Zerg Unfairly Nerfed? (ASL S22 map) screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool BSL Season 22 Full Overview & Conclusion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Wildcard Qualifier [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! IPSL Spring 2026 Top 4!
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Summer Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
The Experiences We Want and …
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9510 users

PuMa to hite SPARKYZ - Page 6

Forum Index > BW General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
December 30 2009 15:52 GMT
#101
On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.


Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing.



Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it?

Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5?


Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines.

I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
December 30 2009 16:00 GMT
#102
On December 30 2009 17:14 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:59 IdrA wrote:
On December 30 2009 16:55 EvilTeletubby wrote:
On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:
despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world


I know you have a lot of estro bias Dan, but... seriously??

Edit - Not trying to doubt you or take away anything from Really, he's actually been one of my favorite's to watch recently, but I just find that really hard to believe (no pun intended).

protip:
when people who know something about gaming have opinions, and yours differ from theirs, you should reevaluate your opinions before questioning theirs.


Hey Greg,

No shit. Was it that hard to figure out I was looking for him to elaborate (which he immediately did)? buthnxforyourprotipthoughgreatlyappreciatedkk.


I hardly consider that a protip and I hardly consider him a pro >_>
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
December 30 2009 16:00 GMT
#103
really is really good. i don't think this guy even cheeses. such solid, solid play. if you aren't too much of a stats whore, then definitely look out for this guy next year.
Brood War loyalist
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
December 30 2009 16:07 GMT
#104
On December 31 2009 00:52 Mortality wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 22:08 vnlegend wrote:
Nada also stimmed his marines across Arkanoid to take a game off of Savior in OSL finals.


Yes, but there's a reason why NaDa is called the "Genius Terran" and it's not for nothing.



Idra and Artosis: hearsay is fine for when you're talking about who you think is on the up and who you think is going down, but rating the better players off it?

Back around 2006 already there was a lot of hearsay about NaDa not being so great anymore. Who won an OSL in late 2006? Who was the first Terran to beat Savior in a bo5?


Lately I think Really is starting to show potential -- after years of being a punching bag in proleague. Leta's performance has not been the same since the proleague finals last summer and we'll have to see if this is a bump in the road or if he's going to fail, but this little "crash" is happening after spending a year as one of the top -- if not THE top -- proleague ace and a lot of excited talk about Leta being "the next big thing" in e-sports magazines.

I have a serious question for you two: can you offer up any evidence besides hearsay to support your claim or are you just hating on Leta's style?

WATCH THEM PLAY

his mechanics are head and shoulders above leta's and he plays a very smart, solid style. he has the occasional brain fart attack tvp and there are other minor flaws in his play, but those are minor and easily fixed, and the massive improvement in his performance recently kinda indicates that they are being fixed.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
GreEny K
Profile Joined February 2008
Germany7312 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:16:52
December 30 2009 16:14 GMT
#105
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously saying that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
Why would you ever choose failure, when success is an option.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:20:15
December 30 2009 16:17 GMT
#106
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
December 30 2009 16:29 GMT
#107
On December 30 2009 16:31 ndralcasid wrote:
....hite didn't want a Protoss??


How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
December 30 2009 16:37 GMT
#108
On December 31 2009 01:29 heyoka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:31 ndralcasid wrote:
....hite didn't want a Protoss??


How did this joke get no love? Best part of the thread by far.

That's a joke?
Entusman #12
Random_0
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
United States1163 Posts
December 30 2009 16:44 GMT
#109
On December 30 2009 16:46 Artosis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 30 2009 16:40 Empyrean wrote:
If he finds breaking into the A team because of Upmagic and Really difficult, why does he think it'll be any easier competing against go.go and Leta?


because it will be. you cant compare those 2 to upmagic and really.
despite what any foreigner's impression of the 2 estro terrans is, really is considered by every progamer in korea as top 5 terran in the world, and upmagic is like leta, except hes better.

puma is actually one of the most asked-for players to practice vs by top progamers.


How is it possible for foreigners to have a different impression of progamers than Koreans?

My understanding is that we have access to every single pro game that is played... The starleagues, the proleague, even the special events.

So, if there is really all this hidden strength, where is it hidden? How does it show itself if not in actual performance?
Zozma
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States1626 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:47:31
December 30 2009 16:47 GMT
#110
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
Athos
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2484 Posts
December 30 2009 16:51 GMT
#111
I remember in that Ret Estro house practice video Sea.really had better mechanics than every other pro-gamer in the house and his speed seemed unreal at times. I can see Really getting very, very good as well based on his recent play. With that in mind I really love watching Leta play. He and Upmagic always do awesome creative stuff that make for entertaining games to watch.
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 16:59:29
December 30 2009 16:58 GMT
#112
lol poor puma nobody here gives about him :D err yeah well i've been a Sea.Really fan for a while too, :D not just since he's been doing better this season.

cuz he looks better than most other progamers too :x

hope he keeps up the improvment! :D

oh and yeah the estro practice video.. Really had some sick fast hands lol O _O (along with crazy spamming but still)
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
December 30 2009 17:05 GMT
#113
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:15:03
December 30 2009 17:12 GMT
#114
On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-

On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
o[twist]
Profile Joined May 2008
United States4903 Posts
December 30 2009 17:18 GMT
#115
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-


room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:21:59
December 30 2009 17:19 GMT
#116
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:
On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:
On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already.


Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder.
what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell)
But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways.
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-

Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 02:05 roMAD wrote:
I always thought that Leta would never be something really good, because of his weak mechanics. Really's TvP is insane, although his TvZ seems rather bad. Same goes to PuMa actually. He has solid TvT and good TvP, but his TvZ seems really bad.
i havent seen pumas tvsp, but i managed to watch a few of his tvsts and it seemed real good. does he have any notable games vs p?


Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.
DyEnasTy
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States3714 Posts
December 30 2009 17:20 GMT
#117
Uhh I stopped reading at pg 4, isnt thread about PuMa???
Much better to die an awesome Terran than to live as a magic wielding fairy or a mindless sac of biological goop. -Manifesto7
We Are Here
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Australia1810 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:27:48
December 30 2009 17:21 GMT
#118
On December 31 2009 02:18 o[twist] wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:
well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_-


room for improvement is not a standard measure of skill; maybe we can say one player is better than the other once the improvement is actualized
youre right, in the end, i cant prove that really will become a better player so all we can do is wait and see what happens


Well, i only watched his replays, but even in TLPD he has wins vs really good opponents.

i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?
He who turns those around him into allies, possesses the most terrifying ability in the world.
yhnmk
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada630 Posts
December 30 2009 17:22 GMT
#119
I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.
roMAD
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Russia2355 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-30 17:27:04
December 30 2009 17:24 GMT
#120
On December 31 2009 02:22 yhnmk wrote:
I can def see why puma would be intimidated by Really, whos a fucking beast. But upmagic? Dude just a mediocre gimmicky player. Hes not a better leta, hes a worse leta. Oh well, if Puma is actually respected and seen to have potential, then I suppose he does have a valid chance of taking spots from go.go who is kinda meh.

Well, imo, PuMa has the same style as Really, so eStro has a solid terran combo of creativity and macro and Really > PuMa, so it was hard for him to fit in.
On December 31 2009 02:21 We Are Here wrote:
i tried searching puma in the replays section and nothing showed, any idea where i can find these replays?

I dunno, those i've seen were given to me from other progamers.
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE218
NeuroSwarm 215
RuFF_SC2 80
Nina 66
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 4898
Counter-Strike
summit1g10602
taco 369
minikerr26
Other Games
tarik_tv4843
Day[9].tv1013
shahzam537
JimRising 263
C9.Mang0142
XaKoH 130
Maynarde129
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3299
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta29
• Mapu3
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv1013
• Scarra845
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 20m
CrankTV Team League
9h 20m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
CrankTV Team League
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs Lambo
Scarlett vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Dragon vs Hawk
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Trap
herO vs SHIN
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Ret
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-13
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W3
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 1
Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.