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On December 31 2009 02:12 We Are Here wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2009 01:47 Zozma wrote:On December 31 2009 01:17 We Are Here wrote:On December 31 2009 01:14 GreEny K wrote:On December 30 2009 17:44 Garnet wrote:
Really is a macro beast. Leta is like an A player that pwn all D,C,B players easy but could never reach A+ for some reason. Probably A is his maximum already. Lol... Are you seriously that Leta can't get A+ on iCCup... No offense to idra but if he can, I think it's a safe assumption that Leta can. Or even worse, leta is not the same rank as mOrrow, Octzerg or whoever else made it to A rank on ladder. what he means is that leta probably has already hit the ceiling, his already peaked in terms of skill and wont ever become S-Class or win a starleague. whereas really is still rising through the ranks (not saying he will become s-class or anything, but time will tell) But you've also said that you think Leta's mechanics are weak. Setting aside whether that's true or not, accepting the proposition that his mechanics are weak means that he can still improve further by working on his mechanics, right? So you can't have it both ways. well it comes down to who has more room for improvement, really polishing his flaws in game and leta improving his mechanics. its of my opinion that really has more potential to improve and this discussion is going nowhere -_- Where I'm going is that you have to concede is either that Leta is perfect in every single respect or that he can still improve his skills.
What you'd have me believe right now is that mechanics are far more important than cleverness, but you're also saying that a strong mechanical player who isn't too clever has more room for improvement than a weak mechanical player who is very clever.
That doesn't make sense to me.
Besides which, I still object to the statement that Leta's mechanics are bad. Among people who play the game 14 hours a day, is there anyone you can point to who has bad macro?
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Yeah. Leta's never come off as a player with bad mechanics to me. I mean, he is definitely above average. Maybe that means hes on the weak end for an ace player or someone who can go deep into starleagues, but hes not helpless in the late game by any means. He just has a different focus.
+ ill never say anything bad about leta, I love his harras style tvp too much. Its fucking delicious, even if its so aggressive its unstable and leads to defeats often.
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I know I'm late to the discussion, but I don't see the Leta hate and the Really/Upmagic love.
Having a great macro game makes you more STABLE, but doesn't make you better. When I say stable, I mean a player can play at a level consistently rather than having high peaks and low bottoms. You can say Hite has gimmicky players. Sure, Horang2 is a cheesy bastard and Leta abused 2-port wraith TvZ and dropships TvP. But in the end, wasn't the Sparkyz in the finals and top 6 the past two seasons? Where was estro at that time?
The thing is, there will always be new cheese in SC that will fuck up great mechanical, macro players. And cheesy noobs and veterans will constantly come up with gay builds that will screw up mechanical beasts. Gayness is always a big part of the game. You can't just ignore that.
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It's all very well talking about potential, but until really proves it by winning more games, IMO leta is still the better player. After all we've seen many players never live up to their supposed 'potential'.
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While some of you might be able to make better informed guesses as to what the future brings, consider the goal of a professional gamer: win games (and develop star power).
If one clearly keeps this criteria in mind, it's easy to compare a gamer to another - results. A pro gamer doesn't develop skills for skills' sake, he or she does so to win, so no matter how "good" they become, it doesn't mean anything until it translates to wins.
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On December 31 2009 05:31 rei wrote:Both IdrA and artosis see themselves as the same Style as  Really, and they are using their personal experience to support their claim that if Leta goes up against Really, the later is surely going to win more games over a spend of 20 games let's say. However the rest of us does not see that evidence, we have no personal experience to watch him first hand. The closest we can come to what idra and artosis experienced is to watch Really's live matches on youtube, then again we still can not make an informed assessment on his play because we just do not process the knowledge to distinguish the difference in mechanics between Leta and Really. Therefore, the only logical argument the rest of us can make without the experience of idra and artosis is from their record on TLPD. Which suggest to us Leta is the better player. Like testie said, Leta's records are better, and against better competition, that is fact. What do we do when we have credible evidence on both sides of an argument? We find a way to come up with a theory that incorporates both side of the argument and create a scenario that the evidences are no longer opposing each other  (Famous example is quantum mechanic and Eistine's relativity) That being said, i like to go along with testie's theory in which leta is better in the past, but really has improved to a point where everybody thinks he's the next big thing, but still hasn't achieve his rightful places on the OSL and MSL. Which satisfies both evidences of being top 5 terran right now, and yet inferior to leta on the TLPD.
If you want to marry win percentage and impeccable mechanics you have Flash, you is currently the best player in the world. So I'd say the example does exist. And, I never liked Leta; he seems to use builds that exploit a weakness rather than builds that are plain strong.
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Valhalla18444 Posts
leta's a chump by the way
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On December 31 2009 17:17 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
leta's a chump by the way
Sorry, but Statistics have you beaten here.
God i love that little greasemonkey script.
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On December 31 2009 17:17 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
leta's a chump by the way
kind of like that Sea guy, huh?
buhzing
But no really you went head over heels for Leta earlier this year, what's up with the namecalling|? >:[
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I'm a bit more curious as to why we keep seeing these player transfers rather than trades - similarly to CJ sending Kwanro to Woongjin, what's Estro's interest in shipping PuMa off to the Sparkyz in exchange for nothing but a salary reduction on the team?
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what's this thread about again? Oh, it's about Puma. Yeah, he's an ok kid in my books. Get get 'em, Puma.
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On December 31 2009 18:15 tonight wrote:
what's this thread about again? Oh, it's about Puma. Yeah, he's an ok kid in my books. Get get 'em, Puma.
this thread was never about puma
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sorry browser bugged and double posted.
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On December 31 2009 17:47 Imagist wrote:
I'm a bit more curious as to why we keep seeing these player transfers rather than trades - similarly to CJ sending Kwanro to Woongjin, what's Estro's interest in shipping PuMa off to the Sparkyz in exchange for nothing but a salary reduction on the team?
GGPlay retired due to carpal tunnel so woonjin wanted another zerg to fill his shoes, and they stated that woonjin and cj had somewhat of a friendly relationship from the original ggplay trade from hanbit to cj. Its a shame though, I didnt truly appreciate ggplay's play until he was gone. If it wasnt for fantasys/iloveoovs crazy mech strat hed probably have gone on to capture a second osl over dinotoss.
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On December 31 2009 17:47 Imagist wrote:
I'm a bit more curious as to why we keep seeing these player transfers rather than trades - similarly to CJ sending Kwanro to Woongjin, what's Estro's interest in shipping PuMa off to the Sparkyz in exchange for nothing but a salary reduction on the team?
They get cash in exchange.
EDIT: Oh Free Agency, what an awesome idea from KeSPA. So awesome it clearly makes all teams resort to that.
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i've sort of got a soft spot for gimmicky players, cause that is the way i like to play. that being said it certainly takes skill to play gimmicky, however its not a skill that is as tangible. i can understand how players who dont get it become so infuriated with us gimmicky guys though 
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Well, might as well bump this too. >_>
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On January 10 2010 14:47 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Well, might as well bump this too. >_>
Theres no reason that this thread needs to be bumped wth
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
On January 10 2010 14:47 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Well, might as well bump this too. >_>
what does PuMa have to do with anything at all that has happened recently dude? o_o
OHHH RIGHT the artosis idra discussion
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n52/dreamslayer7/letagreaterthanreall.jpg)
