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[Fantasy] PL 09-10 R2 Signups - Page 13

Forum Index > BW General
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SkylineSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States564 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-01 23:14:13
December 01 2009 23:13 GMT
#241
my plan is pick players who proved to be quality players but underperformed last round.

RHINOTEAM

Main Team
4 (P)Best
3 (Z)Kwanro
4 (T)Light
6 (Z)Luxury
5 (P)Stork (captain)
3 (T)UpMagic
5 CJ Entus

Anti Team
5 (Z)Roro
4 (T)Ruby
4 (T)Skyhigh
Malingo
Profile Joined November 2009
United States45 Posts
December 01 2009 23:25 GMT
#242
MRC Studios Starcraft Squad

Main Team
4 (P)Best
8 (P)Bisu (captain)
2 (T)Canata
3 (Z)Hyuk
2 (P)Jaehoon
5 (P)Stork
6 SK Telecom T1

Anti Team
3 (T)Firebathero
6 (T)Really
4 (Z)Shine
My first time so here goes nothing...
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3156 Posts
December 01 2009 23:30 GMT
#243
On December 01 2009 20:47 integral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2009 10:10 Abydos1 wrote:
On December 01 2009 09:42 integral wrote:
hotbid can you post that formula?


A player's trade value is going to be 2/3 * tv + 1/3 * last weeks tv
Where its using unweighted tvs in the calculation

IE. in HotBid's example a 10 cost player going 2-0 (with 2 team wins) in week 1 will have 10 pts and 9.94 tv

So 2/3 * 9.94 + 1/3 * 10 (cost) = 9.96

A 10 Cost player going 0-2 (with 0 team wins) in week 1 will have -4 pts and 7.48 tv

So 2/3 * 7.48 + 1/3 * 10 (cost) = 8.32


So the "expected point gain of a 1 pointer" constant is still the same even though the scoring is different? Won't the average point gain of players be significantly lower than last time due to the new negative points for losses and no points for lineup appearances? Previously in any given head-to-head game the overall point gain per player per game would be 2. (2 points for the victory, 2 for the lineup appearances, -1 for the loss, +1 for the team win = 4, divided by 2 players = 2). Now the overall point gain per game is 1.5 -- 4 points for victory, -2 for defeat, 1 for team win. Without a corresponding change in the constant, player scores and thus prices on average will adjust downward. Except for players that play in ace matches, that is -- maximum point gain on a night for an ace player is now 11 instead of 8.


Bumping this from page 7.

Either another thread needs to be created for the attention whores to post their team or spoiler tags need to be included in the copy/paste html. It's impossible to have any sort of discussion about FPL while the pages are spammed with people's teams. Maybe I'm just a grinch but I don't give a fuck who you put on your team -- but even if I did, imagine what a nightmare this thread would be if literally everyone who entered posted their team.
onewingedmoogle
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada434 Posts
December 01 2009 23:45 GMT
#244
onewingedmoogle

Main Team
4 (P)Best
8 (P)Bisu
1 (T)DarkElf
10 (T)Flash (captain)
2 (P)Flying
1 (Z)Hogil
4 WeMade FOX

Anti Team
6 (T)Leta
5 (T)Mind
2 (P)PerfectMan
SuperArc
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Austria7781 Posts
December 01 2009 23:50 GMT
#245
On December 02 2009 06:38 LorD_PaLmersToN wrote:
CtrL aLT ELiTe

Main Team
8 (Z)Jaedong (captain)
5 (P)Kal
3 (Z)Kwanro
4 (T)Light
5 (P)Stork
0 (Z)Yellow
5 MBCGame Hero

Anti Team
6 (P)Free
4 (T)Ruby
3 (Z)Savior


How can you have a zerg icon and put savior in your anti team?! Non believer!
Snow - future of protoss! :) Nada = baller
Sc1pio
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States823 Posts
December 02 2009 00:01 GMT
#246
The Legion

Main Team
10 (T)Flash (captain)
3 (Z)Hyuk
4 (T)Light
3 (P)Movie
3 (T)UpMagic
3 (Z)Yarnc
4 Hwaseung Oz

Anti Team
6 (T)Really
3 (P)SangHo
4 (T)Skyhigh
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's there are few. " -Shunro Suzuki | fortuna fortes adiuvat
Sanku
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada90 Posts
December 02 2009 00:05 GMT
#247
Anti is screwed D:

Main Team
8 (P)Bisu (captain)
1 (T)DarkElf
8 (Z)Jaedong
6 (T)Leta
1 (T)Piano
3 (T)UpMagic
3 Hite Sparkyz

Anti Team
4 (T)Hiya
3 (Z)Hydra
6 (T)Really

I went with 3 power houses UpMagic and then crappy people :D There isn't anyone ridiculously overpriced this round so anti teams will screw you over more.
# 1/0 NaDa fan. You can't get better than that./ I spell challenge with a "r"
prototype.
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada4208 Posts
December 02 2009 00:33 GMT
#248
prototype.

Main Team
0 (P)Brave
8 (Z)Effort
7 (T)Fantasy (captain)
3 (T)Hwasin
8 (Z)Jaedong
0 (T)Smile
4 Hwaseung Oz

Anti Team
7 (Z)Calm
3 (Z)Hyuk
3 (Z)Killer

all zerg antiteam, please don't fail me.. or fail me hard please (however you want to interpret it)
( ・´ー・`)
overlordprime
Profile Joined November 2009
United States8 Posts
December 02 2009 00:39 GMT
#249
On December 02 2009 09:05 Sanku wrote:There isn't anyone ridiculously overpriced this round so anti teams will screw you over more.


Well, besides (T)Leta
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
December 02 2009 00:42 GMT
#250
Evil Geniuses

Main Team
3 (T)Hwasin
2 (P)Jangbi
3 (Z)Kwanro
3 (P)Movie
9 (T)Sea (captain)
5 (P)Stork
5 MBCGame Hero

Anti Team
5 (P)Kal
4 (T)Light
4 (T)Ruby

I like my odds
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
December 02 2009 00:46 GMT
#251
holy shit zero is expensive

Main Team
6 (P)Free
8 (Z)Jaedong
1 (T)Notice
2 (Z)Type-B
0 (Z)Yellow
9 (Z)Zero (captain)
4 Woongjin Stars

Anti Team
4 (T)Hiya
4 (T)Skyhigh
5 (P)Stork
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-02 01:02:29
December 02 2009 01:01 GMT
#252
Catsoup

Main Team
3 (Z)815
2 (Z)FireFist
10 (T)Flash (captain)
3 (T)Hwasin
2 (P)Jangbi
3 (P)Movie
7 KT Rolster

Anti Team
4 (T)Hiya
6 (T)Really
3 (Z)Savior

hoping jangbi and hwasin can gtfo of their slumps
:)
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
December 02 2009 01:01 GMT
#253
btw, thanks for keeping this together hot_bid
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
December 02 2009 01:03 GMT
#254
On December 02 2009 09:42 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Evil Geniuses

Main Team
3 (T)Hwasin
2 (P)Jangbi
3 (Z)Kwanro
3 (P)Movie
9 (T)Sea (captain)
5 (P)Stork
5 MBCGame Hero

Anti Team
5 (P)Kal
4 (T)Light
4 (T)Ruby

I like my odds

yes! Sea for captain as well :D

I don't think he was that many points last round, and I picked him and he got me the most points of out everything, so I wanted to keep him this round, but I'm a little disappointed he's so expensive now.
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
Ruken
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States858 Posts
December 02 2009 01:36 GMT
#255
Winged Hussars

Main Team
4 (P)Best
10 (T)Flash (captain)
3 (P)Movie
4 (T)Ruby
3 (Z)Savior
2 (Z)Type-B
4 WeMade FOX

Anti Team
6 (P)Free
3 (P)SangHo
4 (T)Skyhigh

I originally had Hero and Hwasin instead of type-b and savior. I think that was a smart move on my part...hopefully.
MIK Terran
Jackal03
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil7469 Posts
December 02 2009 01:44 GMT
#256
High Risk

Main Team
8 (Z)Effort
3 (P)Movie
4 (Z)Shine
5 (P)Stork
3 (T)UpMagic
0 (T)Xellos (captain)
7 KT Rolster

Anti Team
6 (T)Leta
4 (T)Ruby
3 (Z)Yarnc

I know i will change and change again (final change after line-ups are up)
BW is back
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
December 02 2009 01:54 GMT
#257
On December 02 2009 06:39 UGC4 wrote:
how do u join groups


Go to the misc. tab and view all groups; then click the plus icon next to a group to join it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/fantasy/proleague/Groups.php?r=5

On December 02 2009 07:02 Xiphos wrote:
Hey what does Captains do in Fantasy? You just can't trade them or something?


Captains can't be traded and are used for a tiebreaker.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
revolover
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada134 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-02 02:08:07
December 02 2009 01:58 GMT
#258
We made zero action anytime, really.

Main Team
3 (Z)Action
3 (P)Anytime
3 (Z)Hyun
6 (T)Really
2 (Z)Type-B (captain)
9 (Z)Zero
4 WeMade FOX

Anti Team
7 (Z)Calm
3 (T)Firebathero
3 (P)SangHo
Kouda
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States2205 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-02 02:26:36
December 02 2009 02:06 GMT
#259
Koudak Moment

Main Team

7 KT Rolster

7 (P)Violet [Captain]
2 (T)Canata
5 (P)Stork
3 (Z)YellOw[ArnC]
2 (P)JangBi
4 (T)sKyHigh

Anti Team

7 (Z)Calm
5 (T)Mind
1 (P)Grape
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
December 02 2009 02:16 GMT
#260
On December 02 2009 08:30 integral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2009 20:47 integral wrote:
On December 01 2009 10:10 Abydos1 wrote:
On December 01 2009 09:42 integral wrote:
hotbid can you post that formula?


A player's trade value is going to be 2/3 * tv + 1/3 * last weeks tv
Where its using unweighted tvs in the calculation

IE. in HotBid's example a 10 cost player going 2-0 (with 2 team wins) in week 1 will have 10 pts and 9.94 tv

So 2/3 * 9.94 + 1/3 * 10 (cost) = 9.96

A 10 Cost player going 0-2 (with 0 team wins) in week 1 will have -4 pts and 7.48 tv

So 2/3 * 7.48 + 1/3 * 10 (cost) = 8.32


So the "expected point gain of a 1 pointer" constant is still the same even though the scoring is different? Won't the average point gain of players be significantly lower than last time due to the new negative points for losses and no points for lineup appearances? Previously in any given head-to-head game the overall point gain per player per game would be 2. (2 points for the victory, 2 for the lineup appearances, -1 for the loss, +1 for the team win = 4, divided by 2 players = 2). Now the overall point gain per game is 1.5 -- 4 points for victory, -2 for defeat, 1 for team win. Without a corresponding change in the constant, player scores and thus prices on average will adjust downward. Except for players that play in ace matches, that is -- maximum point gain on a night for an ace player is now 11 instead of 8.


Bumping this from page 7.

Either another thread needs to be created for the attention whores to post their team or spoiler tags need to be included in the copy/paste html. It's impossible to have any sort of discussion about FPL while the pages are spammed with people's teams. Maybe I'm just a grinch but I don't give a fuck who you put on your team -- but even if I did, imagine what a nightmare this thread would be if literally everyone who entered posted their team.


The expected point gain for a 1 point player has been increased from ~4.6 to 5.7 to account for the increased scoring.

The trade value formula is detailed in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=89231

On December 01 2009 22:28 Musoeun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2009 12:57 Hot_Bid wrote:
On December 01 2009 12:41 IntoTheWow wrote:
I like the anti team changes.

I don't like the ace point changes. With the new system, someone who aces but loses gains zero points from it, while winner takes all.

This makes aces from strong teams (bisu, flash, jaedong, effort) even better. They were considered safe picks in the previous seasons and they will be even safer with the changes.

This is a good point, I talked it over with Abydos and we have adjusted the scoring so that Ace Loss = 0 (instead of -2).


Aces from strong teams are the aces on the strong teams because they're really good players. Removing penalties for ace losses doesn't make them less safe picks. There's nothing you can do to make the really good players not be "safe" picks and still make the system reasonable.


Really good players aren't always safe picks; look at (Z)Jaedong's performance last round. The high cost associated with them means they have to be winning almost every single game and have multiple ace appearances/wins. As Hot_Bid said we talked it over and after much discussion decided to eliminate the penalty for an ace loss; there were several reasons for this, the main point being that getting selected for an ace match is a big deal and is almost guaranteed to be a very hard matchup.


This change just artificially inflates the value of "bad" ace players. Sure, the guy's playing ace, that's got to count for something - but it's an automatic +2 with no penalty for losing. Obviously he doesn't get the points for winning, but that's it. In this regard the old scoring's +2 -1 was much more reasonable.

We've got a 6 point difference between the winner and loser of a game. The ace game difference is now only 4 points. (Old system: 3 point difference for a regular game, 3 points for an ace game.) Why not just go with -1 for an ace game loss still? It seems a little more "fair" to me.


Maybe it is, maybe it isn't but this is the way its going to be for this round; everyone knows this and we'll obviously be examining the results from this round closely to refine the system. Fantasy proleague has advanced way beyond the original that Semioldguy presented and every round has been a unique experience. I'm amazed at the participation we've gotten and we obviously can't satisfy all 1500+ people. One of the problems with the system is we have so few performance metrics to go on: wins, losses, ace matches is about it. Look at any other fantasy sport with its 20+ player statistics and the granularity that provides.


Side note: I feel that overall this new scoring system is going to create an even bigger spread between lucky good and unlucky bad teams and make sticking with the competition much much harder after a bad week. While I understand the rationale behind the changes, I don't like it completely. Trading is too limited to fully adjust for things like good players stuck in set fours (you're hoping they get to play) and other lineup quirks that before were compensated by the lineup points.

Further edit: What I'm getting at is twofold. First, the ideal "dead weight" player has changed from the bad player who is playing (he might win) to the bad player who's not playing (because if he is he might lose). Obviously you don't want any dead weight on your team, but sometimes you have to pick up those 1-pointers.

Second, the middle-of-the-road players now become hugely hit or miss, not to say luck-based. Basically the only option for these guys is to pick the pretty good ones on good teams, and hope. (Partly I'm irritated by the changes because I made by living on these players and now they're huge risks.) The best teams overall - I'm calling it now - are going to have one or two big name players, the team that wins the round, and a bunch of guys who barely play on a good team. Which is lame. Sure, somebody's going to get it right with the 3-5 pointers and run away with the win, but overall meh.


Sure there's luck involved, we can only hope to try and limit that as much as possible; look at the constant performance of the former top 10 group though and you can see there is a lot of skill involved too. We appreciate your concerns and feedback and I hope you enjoy this round as much as the previous ones. We're trying our best here to provide a fun activity for all 1500+ players and also something that casual players can enjoy as much as people that strategize and repick their team 20+ times trying to tweak their "perfect" team.
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
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