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On August 27 2009 04:43 iamho wrote:
I wish people will stop bashing KeSPA. Even if they did change the rules, the other teams would show respect for JD's wish to stay in Oz and Oz could still just pay the same salary.
"Another team mentioned that the main issue was Jaedong's salary. They said that it would be better to use the money for more areas instead of just on one player."
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I hate to say this, but it might be best for JD to go study in the US. He'll leave as the best player of all time and pro-BW is almost over. Also, him and I can be best friends for ever.
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On August 27 2009 04:49 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:43 iamho wrote:
I wish people will stop bashing KeSPA. Even if they did change the rules, the other teams would show respect for JD's wish to stay in Oz and Oz could still just pay the same salary. How do you know that at all? Only one team publicly said that. The enormous cost of signing him and backroom collusion are what kept him from getting signed by another team.
Allow me to enlighten you as to how the free agency in the NBA goes. Over the course of two months, any team can make any offer, and the player gets to choose which one he likes best. Teams do not have to pay anyone for the right to make an offer. He is forced to retire only if no team made any offer whatsoever. If he isn't under contract, any team that so chooses can at any point make an offer which if he feels like taking, he can.
This is how a free agency is supposed to work in a league where player's rights are guarded and in extreme cases are willing to go on strike.
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On August 27 2009 04:52 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:43 iamho wrote:
I wish people will stop bashing KeSPA. Even if they did change the rules, the other teams would show respect for JD's wish to stay in Oz and Oz could still just pay the same salary. "Another team mentioned that the main issue was Jaedong's salary. They said that it would be better to use the money for more areas instead of just on one player."
That's because to acquire JD under the FA rules, the team would have to pay Oz a whole bunch of money in addition to JD's own salary.
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United States22883 Posts
On August 27 2009 05:09 Kazius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:49 Jibba wrote:On August 27 2009 04:43 iamho wrote:
I wish people will stop bashing KeSPA. Even if they did change the rules, the other teams would show respect for JD's wish to stay in Oz and Oz could still just pay the same salary. How do you know that at all? Only one team publicly said that. The enormous cost of signing him and backroom collusion are what kept him from getting signed by another team. Allow me to enlighten you as to how the free agency in the NBA goes. Over the course of two months, any team can make any offer, and the player gets to choose which one he likes best. Teams do not have to pay anyone for the right to make an offer. He is forced to retire only if no team made any offer whatsoever. If he isn't under contract, any team that so chooses can at any point make an offer which if he feels like taking, he can. This is how a free agency is supposed to work in a league where player's rights are guarded and in extreme cases are willing to go on strike.
I think you quoted the wrong person. o.o NBA free agency isn't perfect either, but the balance is split between players and owners better than MLB and NFL, and certainly moreso than Kespa. I assume the founders of Kespa didn't actually know what the english meant when they chose the name, because I think it's always been comprised of team management only.
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On August 27 2009 05:09 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 04:52 Avidkeystamper wrote:On August 27 2009 04:43 iamho wrote:
I wish people will stop bashing KeSPA. Even if they did change the rules, the other teams would show respect for JD's wish to stay in Oz and Oz could still just pay the same salary. "Another team mentioned that the main issue was Jaedong's salary. They said that it would be better to use the money for more areas instead of just on one player." That's because to acquire JD under the FA rules, the team would have to pay Oz a whole bunch of money in addition to JD's own salary.
Yeah, that's the point I'm trying to make, if KeSPA didn't make all these regulations, JD would have a easier time getting signed.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
hm, is the labor position in the nba stronger than it is in mlb? with a salary cap and maximum deals in the nba, i don't see how that union is stronger than the marvin miller juggernauts in mlb. although, the baseball draft is tilted more to the owners.
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Russian Federation405 Posts
KeSPA is abbreviation for Korean e-Sports Association — the part "eSP" = "e-Sports" — without any mention of "Players" in it’s name.
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On August 27 2009 04:58 Orbifold wrote:
I hate to say this, but it might be best for JD to go study in the US. He'll leave as the best player of all time and pro-BW is almost over. Also, him and I can be best friends for ever.
BW is far from being over, when people will understand that SC2 (lol beta in 1 year) won't make SC disappear as soon as it comes out.
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JD cant retire so he can join the ranks of nada and bisu as strong and consistent players
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United States22883 Posts
On August 27 2009 05:37 oneofthem wrote:
hm, is the labor position in the nba stronger than it is in mlb? with a salary cap and maximum deals in the nba, i don't see how that union is stronger than the marvin miller juggernauts in mlb. although, the baseball draft is tilted more to the owners.
Baseball players union is far and away the strongest, while NFL is one of the weakest. I think NBA is somewhere in between and has a good system set up.
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On August 27 2009 05:43 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 05:37 oneofthem wrote:
hm, is the labor position in the nba stronger than it is in mlb? with a salary cap and maximum deals in the nba, i don't see how that union is stronger than the marvin miller juggernauts in mlb. although, the baseball draft is tilted more to the owners. Baseball players union is far and away the strongest, while NFL is one of the weakest. I think NBA is somewhere in between and has a good system set up.
I dunno how much this matters but I know that the 27th pick in the NFL draft gets waaaaay more money than the 15th pick in the NBA draft.
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it really would be a shame if he retired now.. this is not the right time..
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On August 27 2009 04:25 Kazius wrote:
Two words to fix this:
Player's Association.
In every pro sport league there is one, that protects players from this stuff. Sure, the league is relatively small, but I want to see KeSPA not negotiate when players decide to go on strike if demands are not met. Considering that the whole marketing for BW pro play is based on stars, they'd have to be reasonable - otherwise all the money they spent on advertising Flash, Bisu, Jaedong and other players that went diving would work against them.
edit: the whole worker union thing has been tested, and the way I see it, they are turning teams into high-paying entertainment sweatshops. In any change of rules, all sides are supposed to be a part of the move, leaving the players out of the loop is called abusive management.
second edit: If Jaedong decides to go to a US college, it'll be funny seeing him rip apart the CSL. Well, this is the absurd part....
KESPA = Korean E-Sports Players Association
...see my prior post...
On August 27 2009 03:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2009 02:56 Licmyobelisk wrote:
lol Bisu Fans will be so happy since he will be no.1 (of course it is not that fulfilling since he didn't have a chance to defeat the dong in real battle) Not relevant, and not true in any part. Jaedong retiring is bad for everyone. Its bad for viewers because it removes a great player, it's bad for other players because it sets a bad precedent in player-team relations, and it's bad for KeSPA/Teams because it will hurt Esports in the long run. Not true. Jaedong retiring would very likely benefit other players because the fans will hopefully demand some changes in future negotiation terms. This would primarily be bad for Kespa(OGN+MBC+Sponsors), since the organization would loose a lot of public good will. Sure it would be bad for viewers of next season, but if this leads to better terms for the players it will be worth it for us in the long haul.
Frankly, the only one I'm feeling sorry for is Jaedong.
His parents can either let him continue living his dream despite knowing he's getting used by Kespa.
Or they can force him to leave, and potentially live a more humane and less stressfull life. But in that case their son will not be able to do what he loves, they will risk him getting bitter at them and it could potentially endanger their entire relationship.
How would you react if you're parents forced you away from something similar?
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51399 Posts
kids
KeSPA = Korea e-Sports Association, 케스파
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This "free agency" system is a text-book example of a system that is designed to fail at its intended goal. The purpose of a free agency system is to allow players leverage in getting more money out of teams, by forcing teams to compete for them.
However, under this system, Jaedong's former team has to be paid for the privilege of taking Jaedong away, on top of Jaedong's salary. This is price pressure against Jaedong's salary.
This "free agency" is nothing of the kind. It is designed to keep players where they are, getting paid what they currently get paid.
Maybe Jaedong should re-sign with OZ and punish them by sucking in the Proleague deliberately. Just go out there and 4-pool every time. You don't have to practice to 4-pool.
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Hey - what would KeSPA say to JD making a new team if he were to find sponsorship? (Supposing things fell apart with Hwaseung Oz, which is by all accounts where he belongs)
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KeSPA could easily make up an arbitrary rule like "Semi-pros can't form their own teams." along with "pros can't form their own team if they are currently under contract". There, problem solved.
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On August 27 2009 06:08 GTR wrote:
kids
KeSPA = Korea e-Sports Association, 케스파
Ok, if thats the case then they are at least not pretending to represent the players. Thumbs up!
This still doesn't change the fact that Kespa is the regulator and decides which players who are eligible to play. Kespa govern crucial strategic functions traditionally handled by player associations.
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EPT
