• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:09
CEST 00:09
KST 07:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins EWC 202543Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 202510Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202580RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments4[BSL 2025] H2 - Team Wars, Weeklies & SB Ladder10EWC 2025 - Replay Pack4Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced62
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025) The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up Clem Interview: "PvT is a bit insane right now"
Tourneys
LiuLi Cup - August 2025 Tournaments WardiTV Mondays RSL Season 2 Qualifier Links and Dates StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Global Tourney for College Students in September
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft player reflex TE scores BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ StarCon Philadelphia Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced
Tourneys
KCM 2025 Season 3 [ASL20] Online Qualifiers Day 2 [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
The Link Between Fitness and…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 782 users

Dreamhack [E-Sports Prospectus]

Blogs > Primadog
Post a Reply
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 17:46:57
June 17 2011 21:51 GMT
#1
Working on a new version of the E-sports Prospectus. In any case, here's a run of the Dreamhack group stage:

Changes made to the Prospectus algorithm
+ Show Spoiler [Prospectus v1 Formulas] +

+ Show Spoiler [Projecting a game result] +

A player's expected score is his probability of winning. Thus an expected score of 0.75 could represent a 75% chance of winning and 25% chance of losing.

If a game has been played, a win is equal to an expected score of 1.0 and a lose is equal to an expected score of 0.0. If a game has not been played, an expected score E is determined for each match-up. It is calculated using an the TLPD.I rating of the two players in the match using the following formula,

[image loading],
where [image loading] and [image loading]



Example: NASL day 4-5 game 3 is a matchup between (T)IdrA (2297) and (T)PainUser (2000). Expected score of (T)IdrA in this matchup is 0.85. In the other words, (T)IdrA is expected to win 85% of games he played against (T)PainUser, based solely on their TLPD.I rating.

An aside on the ELO formula: Rating spread of 100 means the better player is twice as likely to win the matchup. Rating spread of 200 means about three times as likely. Rating spread of 400 means about ten times as likely.


+ Show Spoiler [Projecting record and points] +

All match-ups in NASL divisional play is best-of-3 (bo3). A player's record in NASL is the number of division matchup won by the player. A player's points in NASL are the number of individual game wins minus the individual game loses of the player in divisional play. Record has a value range between 0 and 9 and points have a value range between -18 and 18. If a matchup has been played, the record and points of that matchup are the actual results, otherwise the following formulas are used:

Each match-up is a bo3 with game 3 not played if the results are already determined (WW or LL). The possible winning permutations then are WLW, WW, LWW, with the possible losing permutations of a bo3 are WLL, LL, LWL. Projected record R is determined using expected value E for a win and 1-E:
Projected Record = expected value of WLW or WW or LWW 
R = E * (1-E) * E + E * E + (1-E) * E * E
R = 2 * E * E * (1-E) + E * E


The projected points P is the number of games won minus the games lost in all permutations:
Projected Points = Expected value of WW, LL, WLW, WLL, LWW, LWL
P = 2 * EE - 2 * (1-E)(1-E) + E(1-E)E - E(1-E)(1-E) + (1-E)EE - (1-E)E(1-E)
P = 2 * [ E(1-E)(1-E) + EE(1-E) + EE + (1-E)(1-E) ]


Example: Continuing the previous example of Day 4-5 game 3, the projected record of IdrA for this matchup is .94 with 1.57 point; and the projected record of Painuser for this matchup is .06 with -1.57 point. Notice that .94 + .06 = 1 and 1.57 + (-1.57) = 0 as expected.


Since NASL week 9, I have been testing out several different iterations of the Prospectus algorithm with race Elos as additional variables. The solution is non-trivial, since the standard expected value of the Elo formulas only accepts two inputs, Player A's Elo Ra and Player B's Elo Rb:

[image loading],
where [image loading] and [image loading]


Where does Player's match-up Elo fit in this formula? Preliminary tests show that simply swapping player Elo with his match-up based Elo dramatically reduce predicative accuracy. It also do not make sense within the StarCraft Metagame: A player's ability in one matchup is not completely independent against another. MC may be better at PvP than PvT, but he certainly is not Bronze-League.

Obviously, player's Elo should remain a factor. How so? I see two ways to approach this, one is to say that racial-Elo is twice as important as regular Elo, another is regular Elo is half as important. [... Will continue this tangent on a subsequent piece]

Formula adjustment for Prospectus v2
[image loading]
where R_B' = R_B + Elo.against.A.race and R_A' = R_A + Elo.against.B.race



Projection
  • Group A: (T)Strelok, (P)NaNiwa
  • Group B: (Z)MorroW, (Z)DIMAGA (wins tie-break over (T)BRAT_OK)
  • Group C: (T)Kas, (T)IdrA
  • Group D: (P)MC, (Z)Sen
  • Group E: (Z)Moon, (P)HuK
  • Group F: (T)ThorZaIN, (Z)July (wins tie-break over (P)HasuObs)
  • Group G: (P)elfi, (T)GoOdy
  • Group H: (T)Bomber, (P)MaNa



Details
Group A			
Player Record Map
Strelok 4-1 (9-3)
Naniwa 4-1 (8-4)
Ret 3-2 (7-5)
Moman 2-3 (5-7)
Jimpo 1-4 (3-8)
Tyler 1-4 (3-9)


Group B			
Player Record Map
Morrow 4-1 (8-4)
DiMAGA 3-2 (7-5)
Brat_ok 3-2 (7-5)
Nightend 2-3 (5-7)
Socke 2-3 (5-7)
DieSTar 1-4 (3-9)


Group C			
Player Record Map
Kas 4-1 (9-3)
IdrA 4-1 (8-4)
SaSe 3-2 (6-6)
Naama 2-3 (5-7)
merz 1-4 (3-9)
Grubby 1-4 (4-8)


Group D			
Player Record Map
MC 4-1 (9-2)
Sen 4-1 (8-4)
TT1 3-2 (6-6)
Adelscott 2-3 (5-6)
ClouD 2-3 (5-7)
Naugrim 0-5 (2-10)


Group E			
Player Record Map
Moon 3-2 (8-4)
Huk 3-2 (8-5)
Tarson 3-2 (7-5)
LaLush 2-3 (6-6)
Bischu 2-3 (5-7)
Fury 1-4 (3-9)


Group F			
Player Record Map
Thorzain 4-1 (8-4)
July 3-2 (8-5)
Hasuobs 3-2 (7-5)
SjoW 2-3 (6-6)
Machine 1-4 (5-7)
Sushi 1-4 (3-9)


Group G			
Player Record Map
elfi 4-1 (9-3)
Goody 4-1 (8-4)
White-Ra 3-2 (7-5)
BYOC 2-3 (5-7)
Jinro 1-4 (3-8)
PredY 1-4 (3-9)


Group H			
Player Record Map
Bomber* 4-1 (8-4)
Mana 4-1 (9-3)
Happy 3-2 (7-4)
BYOC 2-3 (5-7)
Haypro 2-3 (4-8)
Xlord 1-4 (2-9)
*No TLPD.I Elo, replaced with TLPD.K Elo



Accuracy Analysis:
Accuracy for the Dreamhack Prospectus are measured under four indices:
  1. Top2: How many of the 16 advancing players did the Prospectus called correctly?
  2. Order: How does the projected player group-play ordering compare with reality?
    If the Prospectus called ABCDEF but the actual ranking are BCAEDF, it is said to incurred 2 ordering error.
  3. Records: How accurate are the projected records compared to the actual group results?
  4. Maps: How close are players' total map wins and loses compared to the projection?

[image loading]

*
Thank God and gunrun.
Phayt
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada346 Posts
June 17 2011 22:16 GMT
#2
Neat. For the most part this all looks pretty believeable, with the exception of group G I think. Personally I expect White-Ra and Jinro out of that group, and I think seeing NEITHER of them make it would be quite odd. Not that elfi aren't also very good I suppose.

Anyways, these predictions are always fun to see, keep it up dude
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
June 17 2011 23:04 GMT
#3
Primadog, want to bet a dinner on prediction accuracy?

^^
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
June 17 2011 23:08 GMT
#4
On June 18 2011 08:04 tree.hugger wrote:
Primadog, want to bet a dinner on prediction accuracy?

^^


I believe I still have a pizza from OCSurfer to be redeemed, sure, why not.

What accuracy index are we gauging projection performances?
Thank God and gunrun.
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-19 17:57:39
June 19 2011 17:41 GMT
#5
[image loading]
  • Called 13 players' Dreamhack records in group stage perfectly
    + Show Spoiler [Perfect calls] +

    (Z)Ret 3-2
    (P)Tyler 1-4
    (Z)DIMAGA 3-2
    (P)NightEnD 2-3
    (Z)Sen 4-1
    (P)Adelscott 2-3
    (Z)Naugrim 0-5
    (T)FuRy 1-4
    (T)SjoW 2-3
    (Z)Machine 1-4
    BYOC 2-3
    (T)Jinro 1-4
    (Z)HayprO 2-3

  • Called 24 more players' records within 1 match-up of actual result
    + Show Spoiler [Near Misses] +
    (T)Strelok 3-2
    (P)NaNiwa 5-0
    (Z)MoMaN 1-4
    (T)Jimpo 2-3
    (T)BRAT_OK 4-1
    (T)DieStar 0-5
    (Z)IdrA 3-2
    (T)Naama 1-4
    (T)meRz 2-3
    (P)MC 5-0
    (T)ClouD 3-2
    (Z)Moon 4-1
    (T)Tarson 2-3
    (Z)LaLuSh 3-2
    (P)Bischu 1-4
    (T)ThorZaIN 3-2
    (P)HasuObs 4-1
    (Z)Sushi 0-5
    (T)GoOdy 3-2
    (T)Bomber 5-0
    (P)MaNa 3-2
    (T)Happy 2-3
    BYOC 1-4
    (Z)XlorD 2-3

  • Missed 11 players by 2 or more match-ups
    + Show Spoiler [Misses] +
    (Z)MorroW 2-3
    (P)Socke 4-1
    (T)Kas 1-4
    (P)SaSe 5-0
    (P)Grubby 3-2
    (P)TT1 1-4
    (P)HuK 5-0
    (Z)July 5-0
    (P)elfi 1-4
    (P)White-Ra 5-0
    (T)PredY 3-2
Thank God and gunrun.
]343[
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States10328 Posts
July 30 2011 08:42 GMT
#6
Ah these ELO formulae look familiar...
Writer
Primadog
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States4411 Posts
July 30 2011 08:45 GMT
#7
Yes, you can consider me as heyoka 2
Thank God and gunrun.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 51m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 103
sSak 42
NaDa 26
Stormgate
Nathanias173
JuggernautJason129
NightEnD4
Dota 2
Dendi1724
capcasts254
NeuroSwarm40
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K418
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox469
Liquid`Ken19
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu523
Other Games
summit1g12200
tarik_tv6058
shahzam749
JimRising 131
C9.Mang094
monkeys_forever31
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV145
StarCraft 2
angryscii 46
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 63
• davetesta42
• RyuSc2 39
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21805
League of Legends
• Doublelift3223
Other Games
• imaqtpie1500
• Shiphtur403
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 51m
LiuLi Cup
12h 51m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
16h 51m
RSL Revival
1d 3h
RSL Revival
1d 11h
SC Evo League
1d 13h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 16h
CSO Cup
1d 17h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
RotterdaM Event
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
FEL Cracow 2025
CC Div. A S7

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
HCC Europe
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025

Upcoming

ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
Thunderpick World Champ.
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.