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SC2 in Korea; Problems and More - Page 6

Blogs > MrHoon
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Nyx
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Rwanda460 Posts
August 08 2010 12:40 GMT
#101
Is this a huge deal?

StarCraft 2 is picking up hugely in the west, do we want another game where we have to watch VODs in Korean? Maybe StarCraft 2 will pick up in the west much like BW picked up in Korea and we'll have a flip situation this time.

I don't think how well SC2 does Korea is any worry on how well it will do as an esport, BW did amazingly as an esport in Korea, but terribly in the west.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 12:44:21
August 08 2010 12:43 GMT
#102
I don't know how accurate a lot of your stuff is and how much it just boils down to personal ranting

"no one wants to play on low textures" is one reason why koreans don't want to play SC2, but BW looks like shit. It is ancient, people aren't playing it because of the graphics. So why would having to play on low settings on their home pc be such a huge turn off? It doesn't really make sense to me. SC2 isn't the most graphically demanding pc game that is popular in Korea, speaking of which:

Another complaint, about KSSNs and whatnot, the most popular games in pcbangs are all MMOs, which require KSSN registration just like SC2. It hasn't stopped those games from being the most played, why would it stop SC2? Think of Battle.net as a new Nexon or something. It is no way fundamentally different than how you'd play any other recent game in Korea.

Stuff about GOM sucking. They tried to break into a particularly uncompetitive market (either you are part of KESPA or you aren't) you can't bash them for sucking when the cards are stacked against them and the esports powers pretty much align to halt their progress. Let's see what happens first.

I think the worst thing Blizzard did was go to war with Kespa, it was retardedly stupid and we see where the hearts of Koreans lie, not with the foreign entity but with the organization that pretty much fostered ESPORTS and made it what it is today. They should have tried harder to play ball with Kespa. But in the end we don't know how it will turn out. It definitely didn't endear blizzard to Korean fans
Senx
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Sweden5901 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 12:46:27
August 08 2010 12:44 GMT
#103
On August 08 2010 21:37 dasanivan wrote:
there was a promotional starcraft 2 setup in COEX and there were a bunch of computers where people could play SC2 and it was packed.

then i went to a PC bang nearby and there were more people playing SC2 than BW (i saw literally one screen that had BW on). The couple beside me were yelling and screaming and the girl was like, "this is sooo fun!!!" and i look at their screens and it's SC2.

for what it's worth, a bunch of people in the world (even in Korea, folks) like SC2 and to compare it to a failed video game console seems a tad unfair.



So one korean says its actually popular while the OP says the koreans are completely not interested at all.. hmm, hard to really get a fair picture of how the situation actually is. It feels like personal bias is making the posts a bit skewed. Can't you try to look at the situation more objectively?
"trash micro but win - its marine" MC commentary during HSC 4
KristianJS
Profile Joined October 2009
2107 Posts
August 08 2010 12:49 GMT
#104
MrHoon, do you think that if SC2 becomes big as an esport in the western world (or I guess just non-korean world generally) that Korea would then follow?
You need to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
August 08 2010 12:54 GMT
#105
On August 08 2010 21:40 Nyx wrote:
Is this a huge deal?

StarCraft 2 is picking up hugely in the west, do we want another game where we have to watch VODs in Korean? Maybe StarCraft 2 will pick up in the west much like BW picked up in Korea and we'll have a flip situation this time.

I don't think how well SC2 does Korea is any worry on how well it will do as an esport, BW did amazingly as an esport in Korea, but terribly in the west.


True that, but the chances of SC2 even establishing itself as an esport are iffy at best. I don't need to go through all the reasons again, we all know of the calls that Activision made.

All I hope is that this stops any more noobs from thinking Brood War is going to die out.
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
dasanivan
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States532 Posts
August 08 2010 13:01 GMT
#106
On August 08 2010 21:44 Senx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 21:37 dasanivan wrote:
there was a promotional starcraft 2 setup in COEX and there were a bunch of computers where people could play SC2 and it was packed.

then i went to a PC bang nearby and there were more people playing SC2 than BW (i saw literally one screen that had BW on). The couple beside me were yelling and screaming and the girl was like, "this is sooo fun!!!" and i look at their screens and it's SC2.

for what it's worth, a bunch of people in the world (even in Korea, folks) like SC2 and to compare it to a failed video game console seems a tad unfair.



So one korean says its actually popular while the OP says the koreans are completely not interested at all.. hmm, hard to really get a fair picture of how the situation actually is. It feels like personal bias is making the posts a bit skewed. Can't you try to look at the situation more objectively?


If it helps, you could find some numbers, define the threshold for "fail" for yourself and go from there.
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
August 08 2010 13:05 GMT
#107
great blog, frontpage this please
oh shit I checked, this already is on frontpage ^^

hadnt looked at it this way, I was sure that SC2 would be a huge hit, especially when I read about the huge gomTV tourney. Sad that I was wrong, although if SC2 meant death of BW then I'm glad about it not being that successful. Also this means that europeans and americans will have more of a chance to compete with asians in SC2.
beep boop
banana
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands1189 Posts
August 08 2010 13:06 GMT
#108
Awesome insight into the korean sc2 scene/market. Thanks a bunch.

Sadly, if everything you wrote is right, I can't see sc2 becomming big in korea in the next year at least, who knows what will happen after that.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33383 Posts
August 08 2010 13:07 GMT
#109
To be honest, one, two and four are only reasons for hardcore BW fans to feel negatively towards Blizzard. While they are still a sizeable group of people, as we can see from the 30,000 that showed up to the PL final on a sweltering Korean summer day, they're not the people that are going to make SC II sell two million copies in Korea like BW.

Reasons three, five and six (six is flimsy, your SS number is required for so many things everyone knows it by memory), and others you did not cover are why SC II is starting slowly. Not doing badly as you are implying, but starting slowly. It's still in free trial period in Korea right now (which means all bets are off), and it's quite possible it could continue this trend of slow and steady growth. That said, early signs seem to indicate that it won't be as popular as BW, but it's for reasons related to the casual gamers who are every Korean male between 12 and 30.

Anyway, why do I think it's starting poorly amongst the general Korean audience? Well, SC1 was a ridiculous anomaly. SC came at the exact right time during the PC Bang/IT boom, and it happened to be the best competitive game that had a good Korean distributer at the time. You can't expect a ton of brand loyalty from casual gamers, and I think Blizzard realized this when they spent so much on their advertising campaign. Most people who played BW during its prime are over 20 now, and the younger generation of gamers have grown up in a much different environment where they were spoiled for variety in terms of games.

If SC II does end up doing poorly in Korea, it's going to be for a simple reason that's not related to any corporate machinations and plotting: Because it wasn't fun enough.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
August 08 2010 13:08 GMT
#110
very interesting article/readup

it really did seem GOM was trying to go really hardcore in "shoving it down people's throats" as u mentioned
Forever Young
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
August 08 2010 13:21 GMT
#111
On August 08 2010 21:43 floor exercise wrote:
I don't know how accurate a lot of your stuff is and how much it just boils down to personal ranting

"no one wants to play on low textures" is one reason why koreans don't want to play SC2, but BW looks like shit. It is ancient, people aren't playing it because of the graphics. So why would having to play on low settings on their home pc be such a huge turn off? It doesn't really make sense to me. SC2 isn't the most graphically demanding pc game that is popular in Korea, speaking of which:

Another complaint, about KSSNs and whatnot, the most popular games in pcbangs are all MMOs, which require KSSN registration just like SC2. It hasn't stopped those games from being the most played, why would it stop SC2? Think of Battle.net as a new Nexon or something. It is no way fundamentally different than how you'd play any other recent game in Korea.

Stuff about GOM sucking. They tried to break into a particularly uncompetitive market (either you are part of KESPA or you aren't) you can't bash them for sucking when the cards are stacked against them and the esports powers pretty much align to halt their progress. Let's see what happens first.

I think the worst thing Blizzard did was go to war with Kespa, it was retardedly stupid and we see where the hearts of Koreans lie, not with the foreign entity but with the organization that pretty much fostered ESPORTS and made it what it is today. They should have tried harder to play ball with Kespa. But in the end we don't know how it will turn out. It definitely didn't endear blizzard to Korean fans


First of all, there are couple things off with your post
#1, You believe Starcraft has shit graphics (seriously, what?)
I'm not going to be a retro gamer and respect your decision of not liking beautiful sprite art, but Starcraft is appealing because it's easy on the eyes.

#2, KSSN is not a problem, it's an inconvenience. Do you think Koreans who get introduced to SC2 will think "oh boy i gotta pop dat KSSN out to register" when every other game except WoW didn't require that?

#3, I admire the fact that they tried but at the same time you can't say "Because they're new it's okay." There was a reason why Gom Starcraft Invitational worked so well yet Gom Classic did not work out well.

On August 08 2010 21:44 Senx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 21:37 dasanivan wrote:
there was a promotional starcraft 2 setup in COEX and there were a bunch of computers where people could play SC2 and it was packed.

then i went to a PC bang nearby and there were more people playing SC2 than BW (i saw literally one screen that had BW on). The couple beside me were yelling and screaming and the girl was like, "this is sooo fun!!!" and i look at their screens and it's SC2.

for what it's worth, a bunch of people in the world (even in Korea, folks) like SC2 and to compare it to a failed video game console seems a tad unfair.



So one korean says its actually popular while the OP says the koreans are completely not interested at all.. hmm, hard to really get a fair picture of how the situation actually is. It feels like personal bias is making the posts a bit skewed. Can't you try to look at the situation more objectively?


You went to COEX in the Samsung District, one of the most populated places inside Seoul, a place where if you go to the weekends you literally choke to death and a place where you have to reserve movie tickets 4 days before or you sit in the front, has a huge clothing mall shop and 2 hotels connected to it, tens of grand halls for weddings/conventions/art galleries, and found that alot of people are playing starcraft?
Call me crazy but if I slap 20 computers with SC2 installed in the middle of manhattan I bet I can get twice the numbers.

Also dasanivan, did you know SC2 can't even hit top 10 games in PCbangs in Korea?
dats racist
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
August 08 2010 13:24 GMT
#112
On August 08 2010 22:21 MrHoon wrote:


You went to COEX in the Samsung District, one of the most populated places inside Seoul, a place where if you go to the weekends you literally choke to death and a place where you have to reserve movie tickets 4 days before or you sit in the front, has a huge clothing mall shop and 2 hotels connected to it, tens of grand halls for weddings/conventions/art galleries, and found that alot of people are playing starcraft?
Call me crazy but if I slap 20 computers with SC2 installed in the middle of manhattan I bet I can get twice the numbers.

Also dasanivan, did you know SC2 can't even hit top 10 games in PCbangs in Korea?


oh u so cute actually replying to these kinda ppl
why so 진지해?
MrHoon *
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
10183 Posts
August 08 2010 13:24 GMT
#113
I'm not saying starcraft 2 sucks, I actually enjoy the game although I would like to play on my computer time to time

It's just so frustrating to see such a good game not doing as well as I (and many others) expected

Yes it's a bit early to tell, and yes the original starcraft took years even with the golden age boom

It's just that compared to SC1, the whole thing is moving so slowly and in the other direction.
dats racist
LastPrime
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States109 Posts
August 08 2010 13:24 GMT
#114
On August 08 2010 15:40 heyoka wrote:
One thing I don't necessarily agree with though is GOM's money. I don't care if GOM is the bastard stepchild of e-sports, they are willing to pump ~5 times as much money into this tournament as an OSL. History will show you that people go to the money regardless of event. The popular sports in America are the ones where the money is, we don't have good soccer players because it pays jack shit, if you're an athlete you choose the sport that gives bling. The formats that are competitive in magic the gathering are the ones that have big money tournaments, the guys who play more casual formats are much worse players.

IMO, tournaments in (korean) esports is almost not at all for money but for the fame and name value they bring. Most of the money is from the salary you get from the team, which you increase by winning these tournaments.
GOM does not have the prestige associated with MSL/OSL. Haven't some teams even boycotted their tournaments in the past? And as MrHoon pointed out, you can watch OSL/MSL on your TV with your friends sitting in your couch in a comfortable manner, whereas you must huddle in front of a small computer screen to watch GOM stuff - not as fun.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
August 08 2010 13:26 GMT
#115
On August 08 2010 22:07 Waxangel wrote:
To be honest, one, two and four are only reasons for hardcore BW fans to feel negatively towards Blizzard. While they are still a sizeable group of people, as we can see from the 30,000 that showed up to the PL final on a sweltering Korean summer day, they're not the people that are going to make SC II sell two million copies in Korea like BW.

Reasons three, five and six (six is flimsy, your SS number is required for so many things everyone knows it by memory), and others you did not cover are why SC II is starting slowly. Not doing badly as you are implying, but starting slowly. It's still in free trial period in Korea right now (which means all bets are off), and it's quite possible it could continue this trend of slow and steady growth. That said, early signs seem to indicate that it won't be as popular as BW, but it's for reasons related to the casual gamers who are every Korean male between 12 and 30.

Anyway, why do I think it's starting poorly amongst the general Korean audience? Well, SC1 was a ridiculous anomaly. SC came at the exact right time during the PC Bang/IT boom, and it happened to be the best competitive game that had a good Korean distributer at the time. You can't expect a ton of brand loyalty from casual gamers, and I think Blizzard realized this when they spent so much on their advertising campaign. Most people who played BW during its prime are over 20 now, and the younger generation of gamers have grown up in a much different environment where they were spoiled for variety in terms of games.

If SC II does end up doing poorly in Korea, it's going to be for a simple reason that's not related to any corporate machinations and plotting: Because it wasn't fun enough.


And because FIFA online, Dungeon and Fighter, Maple Story, Kart Rider, Gunz and countless FPSes are free not to mention BW and DOTA. I just don't think Korean kids and teenagers are going to like having to cough up money to play SC2.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
August 08 2010 13:29 GMT
#116
On August 08 2010 21:44 Senx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2010 21:37 dasanivan wrote:
there was a promotional starcraft 2 setup in COEX and there were a bunch of computers where people could play SC2 and it was packed.

then i went to a PC bang nearby and there were more people playing SC2 than BW (i saw literally one screen that had BW on). The couple beside me were yelling and screaming and the girl was like, "this is sooo fun!!!" and i look at their screens and it's SC2.

for what it's worth, a bunch of people in the world (even in Korea, folks) like SC2 and to compare it to a failed video game console seems a tad unfair.



So one korean says its actually popular while the OP says the koreans are completely not interested at all.. hmm, hard to really get a fair picture of how the situation actually is. It feels like personal bias is making the posts a bit skewed. Can't you try to look at the situation more objectively?


Totally different from my experience-

Last Friday at the pc bang I went to there were two adults playing SC2, about 5 high school kids playing DOTA and the rest of the middle and elementary kids were playing FIFA online and Maple Story. Every other time I've been SC2 players have been non-existent or less than five.

Of course some are getting into it but it is really not making the big impact here that some are trying to claim.
NuKedUFirst
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada3139 Posts
August 08 2010 13:43 GMT
#117
Dane cook bad? Dane cook is funny :<
Love the art work, but yeah. Blizzard is kinda stabbing themselves in Korea :< I follow superdanielman on twitter and he says the same stuff you do.
FrostedMiniWeet wrote: I like winning because it validates all the bloody time I waste playing SC2.
Tazza
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)1678 Posts
August 08 2010 13:47 GMT
#118
Yeah I totally agree with u. Especially what Blizzard did to Kespa. After that, I was just so pissed at Blizzard. Kespa had done so many great things to Esports, they're what held things together. And then I heard they were going to eliminate the SC1 pro scene, and I just went livid. Watching SC1 was what got me into Brood War again in the first place. If it wasn't for that I would not have given a damn about Starcraft. I really like watching SC1 pro vods and i love reading about them here on TL, if Blizzard destroys it, TL should not stand still brainwashed with SC2, but stand up to Blizzard and say this is untolerable. I havn't been here long, but SC1 is what started the whole thing, remember.

Also, Blizzard screwed up royally with their timing. They announced it in 2007, and many people were eager then. Up until about 2009, people were still eager, but after, people were just like fuck it, its never going to come out, im not gonna give a damn about it.
san-tokie
Profile Joined May 2007
Korea (South)185 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-08 14:02:39
August 08 2010 13:58 GMT
#119
My friends also tell me no one plays SC2 at pcbang... I couldn't believe them after seeing all the hype and publicity on Korean gaming sites, but it's true.

Here are the latest rankings from 2010 August 7th

1. Aion / 아이온
13.92%

2. Sudden Attack / 서든어택
8.39%

3. FIFA Online 2 / 피파온라인2
7.96%

4. Warcraft 3 / 워크래프트 3
6.47%

5. Starcraft / 스타크래프트
6.31%

6. Maple Story / 메이플 스토리
5.68%

7. Lineage 2 / 리니지 2
4.11%

8. Dungeon and Fighter / 던전앤파이터
3.9%

9. Lineage / 리니지
3.71%

10. World of Warcraft / 월드 오브 워크래프트
3.68%


edit: I think the only way GOM can succeed with SC2 is getting some star players from SC1. It would have been controversial but they could have recruited Savior Upmagic Hwasin? It's too bad they've already decided to ban all players involved with the scandal.
BertSC2
Profile Joined August 2010
3 Posts
August 08 2010 14:07 GMT
#120
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