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Today I was in town killing some time because all my lectures were done in the morning. I went into the internet cafe that I always used to go to and bought 2 hours worth of game time. Starcraft wasn't on any of the available computers so I decided to have a go at warcraft 3 (The frozen throne), now I have never played war3 before, I have only seen a few games of Moon on Gomtv and a couple Oversky fpvods. The first thing I did was check the internet for the nightelf tech tree and looked at a spreadsheet of unit costs. Then I created a bnet account and the auto matchmaking thing matched me with a level 3 guy called 'jkladsfjl'.
So I am clicking away in an interface that is very similar to starcrafts and fast teching to tech 2 but then a BladeMaster raids my base killing all my wisps and disappearing before my archers could get to him. This Blademaster was totally owning my base everytime I made a new wisp he would pop out and kill it; he was like a vulture with the health of a tank and the cloaking of a wraith. In the end I gg'd.
The next game I made a static defense guy after my hunters hall was done and when I got 3 archers a deathknight poked his head into my base and then the guy left the game, I don't know why, maybe he saw my build and knew I was a complete noob or maybe my build countered some sort of hero rush.
The last game against a level 12 guy (I have no idea how good level 12 is) went better. This guy that went random and I did the same thing as last game:
Ancient of War
Moonwell
Hunters hall
Static defense dude
Tech two
I then sent for archers to look for his base and I saw that he was human, I managed to pick of a melee guy before his other warriors and an archmage chased me off. I continued to marco:
Hunters hall upgrades for dryads
Then two Ancients of lore
Looking at the spreadsheet it seemed to me that massing dryads would be best since they costed a relatively low amount of gold and a relatively high amount of wood. The limiting factor of wood could be easily nullified by making more wisps.
I attack his base with a handful of dryads with 2-2 upgrades and my original archers. On the way to his base I stumble upon his expansion and I take it down to low health before his army arrived, he had a level 5 archmage and level 4 pitlord(?) and a bunch of fighters, I told the few amount of archers I had to continue finishing off the expo while I micro'd my Dryads like I would a bunch of hydras, move one half back then the other half back and running the ones getting attacked. I also remembered to abolish the water elementals from watching an Oversky fpvod. His archmage gets to half health and I focus him down, he tries to run but he is slowed by my dryads and the dryads are pretty quick too. After I killed the archmage I retreat back to my base, I'm not sure if that was the best tactical decision but I wanted to heal my dryads at the moonwells. And like a good starcraft player I had been making more dryads during the battle and so I soon attacked his base again, abolished his water elementals and picked off his archmage (again) and then I killed a few more units before he gg'd.
Well thats my story, I didn't play any more games after that because I wanted to quit while I was ahead. Anyone who plays War3 want to comment on my games? how good is level 12? is winning a game with no heros a feasible strat?
 
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i think most build orders are modeled to bring out a hero as fast as possible
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Level 12 isn't really that great. It's kind of like people referring to their bnet stats imo. If you were to play a bunch of games you could probably get level 12.
You kind of need heros to win too. You can't really win much without them. 
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On July 16 2009 20:29 Wurzelbrumpft wrote:
i think most build orders are modeled to bring out a hero as fast as possible
Yeah this is true. They usually get an altar and a supply building (moonwell for Night elf) as their first two buildings. Oo
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I played a game for the first time in over a year last week against a level 24 and owned him, and then lost to a level 9.
Levels dont mean anything in my experience, unless it's 30+ or something.
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No, winning without heroes is not viable at all. You pay for an altar, and you get a hero for FREE. And it's a fucking beast. Now, if you just play the same way but build an altar first (but don't build the static defense) you'll do much better.
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I don't plan on playing war3 again but for curiosity sake ... how the fuck to you stop a blademaster harass, where do you get detection?
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dust of appearance for the wind walk
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If you went demon hunter first you can burn his mana stopping him from windwalking. Also you can detonate your wisps right before they die and it will mana burn + deny exp. Mostly though you simcity a huntress hall/alter/moonwell next to the forest and have wisps behind them.
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On July 16 2009 20:49 Brett wrote:
dust of appearance for the wind walk
yeah, from the neutral shop.
if you go there on the first night you dont have to fight the creeps. 
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Also you should scout with a whisp (similarly to SC)
Don't wait for your first combat unit
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On my first Warcraft Account in like the first 25 games I beat a level 42 guy in NE Mirror, he kept asking me for my real nick and level. I basically just build a few dryads and those guys who could shapeshirt to bear form and a moved into his army while microing my hero. ;\
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I was wondering if the lack of hero in your build order was an understatement or if you really didn't get a hero. No doubt, you have to get hero fast.
To defend wisps from Blademaster harass, the keypoint is not so much to catch the BM, you can't, but rather to run your wisps around so that he can't kill them to fast. Base layout plays an important role here. Eventually ths BM's health will go down, and its mana too, so it won't be able to windwalk for free kill for an infinite time.
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United States1865 Posts
Lol level 12 is by no means good but the fact that you beat a guy in a warcraft 3 1v1 without making a hero is fucking commendable lol
seriously that should never happen
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I totally don't get Warcraft 3 -_-
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hmmmm, maybe you should try proxy altar and moonwell... that would make war3 cheeesy enough
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konadora
Singapore66155 Posts
I hit level 29 once and I'm not that good in wc3
SC > WC3
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There are people who are level 30 and are terrible. Good job winning a game Your build order sucks, but whatever how would you know  Overskys vods are very good for beginners to even above average players.
As for the BM against Orc you pretty much are required to wall off your base. To do this you build hunters hall, altar, or aows against lumber trees and moon wells between those buildings and your tree of life. This creates a seal that only units with very small collision size can get through like footmen and ghouls. Heroes and archers cannot get through the hole. Set rally points outside of your wall so units dont get stuck behind it. If they do just uproot your tree of life.
Usually there is no reason with NE to build static defense especially early in the game.
Also with elf its pretty important to creep a harder green or a fairly easy orange creep camp early in the game.
Proxys do not work at all in war3, however, offensive towering and offensive shop building is very effective in many situations.
And a hero is always 100% necessary to beat anybody who is not absolutely terrible. Heroes are the most important part of the game.
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You are going to lose pretty soon because AMM will match your level higher everytime you win game. First 10 games are pretty easy unless you are 10-0 then next game is much harder.
Oh and you can still beat lvl 30 opponents with single hero (warden or beastmaster with NE)
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What Bosu said. Or you can block the trees where your wisps harvest. The wisps can move between the buildings, but large units like heroes can't.
You can also place wisps on specific trees which the blademaster can't reach
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holy shit you won without a hero? hahahah
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keep in mind that levels right now are pretty useless, since the war3 ladder is filled with hacks (or it was afew months ago).
Levels only mean something right after a reset, or afew years back. Now all the best players only play on ggc and such, not on bnet really, except for that one week for the SC2 beta key tournament. maybe when the ladder resets soon there will be good players but until then, 90% of ladder is just newbs who mass game
its like if koreans/top players suddenly didnt play iccup anymore, you would have such a greater range of people, where someone could probably get B- with just mass gaming. Thats how war3 is now, since all the best players moved to other servers, the average players are on top now and the bad players are in the middle ranks, and they wouldnt mean much anymore.
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On July 16 2009 20:42 ViruX wrote:
I don't plan on playing war3 again but for curiosity sake ... how the fuck to you stop a blademaster harass, where do you get detection?
You can use wisp detonate to kill his mana making him unable to windwalk again, it also stops him from getting experience when he attacks them.
But other than that detection is a lot rarer to get in warcraft 3 than in starcraft, the normal way is to get dust of appearance. (Item you get on your hero)
Read through these to understand the basic mechanics you missed:
http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/heroes.shtml
http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/invisibility.shtml
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Haha good job! Actually levels doesn't mean shit, I'm pretty noob and I'm like level 30 for winning team games lol
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10387 Posts
I'm curious if the second game his strategy was a complete counter or something haha
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Hungary11284 Posts
Warcraft III uses a dual level system: On the one hand, the displayed one and on the other the estimated one. The matchmaking uses the estimated level, not the actual one.
If you start off 3-0 for example, your estimated rating might be something like lv 35, so the system will pair you with players who are also estimated 35, so they might be 5,10,25 or 35. Therefore, the displayed level is firstly stating how much you play, and only secondly how good you are.
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level 12 is terrible and winning without a hero should be impossible, it's hilarious that you beat anyone.
and there is very little you can do against the Blademaster, hence one of the retarded imbalances in the game.
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im to lazy to play wc3, no need to lose my self in that game when SC is just right here
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On July 16 2009 22:36 ArvickHero wrote:
I'm curious if the second game his strategy was a complete counter or something haha
op didnt even make a hero....
the guy left because it was clearly a waste of time -_-
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On July 16 2009 21:56 paper wrote:
holy shit you won without a hero? hahahah
I used to do that at low levels by going double/triple crypt and massing ghouls.
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Playing without Heroes is like a form of BM if you know you rape your opponent or something'?
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Could probably do something similar with mass foots and tower rushing.
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